View Full Version : Concealed Carry - TSA & Traveling
A keen reminder of SA, knowing concealed carry laws to where your traveling and that where TSA molestation is approved, TSA travel guidelines for weapons may not apply in the jurisdiction your are traveling through or to.
(AP)
NEW YORK - A leader of a tea party group was arrested after he took a gun to LaGuardia Airport.
Tea Party Patriots co-founder Mark Meckler was taken into custody Thursday morning after he tried to check in for a Delta flight to Detroit with a locked gun box containing a Glock pistol and 19 cartridges of ammunition, Queens prosecutors said.
Meckler, 49, declared the weapon, as required, authorities said. He's licensed to carry the gun in Grass Valley, Calif., where he lives, but that license isn't valid in New York, which has strict rules on carrying concealed weapons, they said.
"He didn't have a correct understanding of the law," said Al Della Fave, a spokesman for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which polices the area's main airports. "Though he has a permit to carry in California, that did not cover him in the state of New York."
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Meckler spent the day in jail and was arraigned in Queens late Friday afternoon on a felony weapons possession charge. He was released pending a Jan. 12 court date.
The charge could carry prison time, but travelers who are arrested in such cases and appear to be trying to comply with the law typically pay fines.
The name of Meckler's attorney wasn't available Friday, and attempts to contact him by phone and electronic message were unsuccessful.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57344080/tea-partys-mark-meckler-arrested-on-gun-charge/
More in slanted coverage from the International Business Times:
http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/268578/20111217/arrest-tea-party-president-mark-meckler-gun.htm
WND seems to be the only source thus bringing up the fact that the weapon was in temporary transit and that the TSA had let it fly to NYC.
"While in temporary transit through the state of New York in possession of an unloaded, lawful firearm that was locked in a (Transportation Security Administration)-approved safe, he legally declared his possession of the firearm in his checked baggage at the ticket counter as required by law and in a manner approved by TSA and the airline, yet was arrested by port authority for said possession," Stapleton said.
Read more: Tea-party leader shocked by arrest on gun charges http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=377885#ixzz1goEia7Tu
Buffalobob
12-17-2011, 11:39
Its hard to cure stupid. Anyone who is a lawyer and has a carry permit from California and can't figure out that it is worthless in a lot of places should also lose his bar license as he will lose his Cal carry permit.
According to some sources he had been in New York for several days with the pistol.
Its hard to cure stupid. Anyone who is a lawyer and has a carry permit from California and can't figure out that it is worthless in a lot of places should also lose his bar license as he will lose his Cal carry permit.
According to some sources he had been in New York for several days with the pistol.
It will be interesting to see how this story ends.
Buffalobob
12-17-2011, 12:25
Click on California as your state of residence and see just how far that gets you.
http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html
Click on California as your state of residence and see just how far that gets you.
http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html
The map is accurate enough to know this person was pushing the limits (i.e. looking for trouble) and New York (nor does California) doesn't appear to honor any out of state permit.
Peregrino
12-17-2011, 14:47
Unfortunately, the only way for a citizen to challenge a bad law is to break it and fight it out in the courts. That kind of gamble requires deep pockets, serious cojones, a belief in the "rightness" of your cause, and a willingness to face the consequences if you lose. If he wins, we all win; otherwise, he stands to be made an example of. Pretty f'ed up if you ask me.
MTN Medic
12-17-2011, 16:40
Unfortunately, the only way for a citizen to challenge a bad law is to break it and fight it out in the courts. That kind of gamble requires deep pockets, serious cojones, a belief in the "rightness" of your cause, and a willingness to face the consequences if you lose. If he wins, we all win; otherwise, he stands to be made an example of. Pretty f'ed up if you ask me.
He's gonna lose...
More in slanted coverage from the NY Times:
http://newyork.ibtimes.com/articles/268578/20111216/arrest-tea-party-president-mark-meckler-gun.htm[Are the New York Times and the International Business Times run by the same company?
Compare About the IBTimes (http://www.ibtimes.com/aboutus/) to The New York Times Company home page (http://www.nytco.com/).
He's gonna lose...
Maybe. We will see if the NRA picks this one up as a cause celebre. With the current interest in HR 822 and National CCW, they may be able to make a case for this. The way NY is, they would have arrested the old man I saw at Wal-Mart this afternoon. He looked like he was probably a WWII vet, at the least Korea. He was wearing a Marine ball cap, a red Marine silk type jacket with the right side of his jacket tucked behind a Springfield XD in a Serpa belt holster. Fortunantly, NC allows open carry too.
On the subject of reciprocity, I am pleased to see how accepted NC's CCW permit is.
Are the New York Times and the International Business Times run by the same company?
Compare About the IBTimes (http://www.ibtimes.com/aboutus/) to The New York Times Company home page (http://www.nytco.com/).
Great find! Thank you for the discriminating eye.
So what do you have to say about your fellow Californians predicament Sigiba?
BigJimCalhoun
12-17-2011, 19:14
My understanding is that a concealed weapon is on concealed on your person, not in a locked box. You need to have it locked in a case in order to travel by law.
The same thing happened at the Democrat convention in Denver. The case was never submitted to the DA, but it was a royal pain. He was originally arrested for having a concealed weapon - in a gun case.
http://www.9news.com/rss/story.aspx?storyid=99744
Additionally, someone else was arrested in NY or NJ for a gun for a flight that was diverted there from the intended destination (Manchester, NH I think). The charges were eventually dropped.
Federal law says you can travel in other states no matter what their law is as long as it is in a locked case and unloaded. NYC again trying to bypass the law for their own agenda.
Depending on the day or the week, venue or agenda the Fed Law could beinterpreted as infringing on States Rights...........or vice versa.
MTN Medic
12-17-2011, 20:12
If I am not mistaken, I believe that this refers to passing through a state, not traveling around in the state for 3 days and then leaving with the weapon.
I know that even though I have a carry permit for Colorado, the Cities of Boulder and Denver maintain that they have the right to confiscate my firearm for an indefinite amount of time.
Seems to me that you should err on the side of caution when traveling in non-gun friendly areas. This guy obviously broke the law and will pay for it. Unless he is able to get the gun laws of New York repealed (impossible/ unlikely) he will be charged with a crime and will have to pay at least a fine if not a modest jail sentence.
Responsible gun owners know the law and abide by them. He either did not know the law ( no excuse) or he chose to ignore them (again no excuse). As an avid gun owner, I hate the overreaching gun laws, but it does us a disservice to be associated with people who either don't know the laws or choose not to follow them.
It looks like he was in NY/NYC for a period of time, not just passing through, so he would be in violation of NY/NYC law by having an unlicensed handgun. That said, NYC and the Port Authority specifically have been known to blatantly disregard FOPA[1][2][3], so even if you are just passing through, there is a chance you will still be detained and charged.
[1]http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2009/08/guide_to_inters_1.php
[2]http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=4e8aaa67-b70d-4952-9de4-4c79949314d0
[3]http://www.ohioverticals.com/blogs/akron_law_cafe/2011/01/revell-v-port-authority-of-new-york-and-new-jersey/
tom kelly
12-18-2011, 01:47
If you are a LEO you are exempt from this BS, The way to circumvent The Anti-Gun midget mayor of NYC would be to have your local Sheriff a county elected official, Deputize you for a specific period eg 1 year, When the LEO's of any anti-gun local badge you, Badge them back....You must be politically connected to your local political party boss to get this done...It worked for me in NJ.Regard's, TK
P S: Prior to 9/11 even sworn Phila. Police Officers could NOT carry a weapon in NJ while the THIEF the former Gov. Corzine the same person who just lost 1 BILLION dollars of investors money was the US Senator and later Gov. of NJ.
The Reaper
12-18-2011, 10:20
I think he was complying with the law as he understood it and this will be a good test of NY's law. The NRA, GOA, and others should weigh in on his behalf. The current SCOTUS would, IMHO, based on recent precedents, rule for the individual, should it ever get there.
Hell, the ACLU should as well, except that they do not respect the Second Amendment.
If the charges stick, as a convicted felon, he will lose his Second Amendment rights.
Really ballsy move, if he did it deliberately.
TR
the THIEF the former Gov. Corzine the same person who just lost 1 BILLION dollars of investors money was the US Senator and later Gov. of NJ.
Amazing he just 'lost' 1 billion dollars.....it is no wonder why the likes Corzine and Bloomberg are so concerned for our personal safety and firearms.
DJ Urbanovsky
12-18-2011, 12:55
If it's legal where you're coming from and legal where you're going to, then you're good to go for all points in between. If I'm coming from here and going to FL, and I've got an SBR, and I have a layover in NYC, I'm ok. If my destination with my SBR is NYC, I am not ok.
WRMETTLER
12-18-2011, 14:45
If you are transporting a firearm from Florida to say Ohio with a stop over in NCY and if that stop over is just to transfer to a different plane/airlines, and the gun container is moved by the baggage handlers, then you are OK. This is the same as driving through NYC on your way from Virginia to Connecticut with a firearm locked in your trunk.
However, if you remove the gun container from the airport and transport it to your hotel room and keep it there for 3 days while you are sight seeing, then you are in violation of the law.
The grey area here might be that the gun container was back in the control of the airlines when he was arrested. But, it seems to me that the police can readily prove that he had possession of his firearm while in NYC for 3 days.
This guy is an attorney? He was just hoping that he wouldn't get caught. I can't imagine any higher purpose here.
Badger52
12-19-2011, 09:06
If it's legal where you're coming from and legal where you're going to, then you're good to go for all points in between. If I'm coming from here and going to FL, and I've got an SBR, and I have a layover in NYC, I'm ok. If my destination with my SBR is NYC, I am not ok.Some may want to read this (http://www.gunweek.com/2006/NYNJ0320.html) and see if they're willing to put themselves through the travails of "being in the right."
(The list of people in WI who got jammed up while being in the right - when open-carry was the only legal avenue - by officers ignorant of the law is a long one.)
It shouldn't have to be that way, but big-boy rules apply; jes' sayin'.
:cool:
He is OK if he checked it in a locked box in transit.
If he had ammunition in the mag or in the case, he goofed.
you are all missing a very important point: Just what the heck is the TSA doing enforcing STATE law? They shouldn't give two hoots about the cat unless he is violating one of THEIR laws. It sounds like there is more to this story as I doubt they had jurisdiction to enforce State law. They probably saw it and called over one of the Staties or local dudes who then balled him up. Pretty shitty behavior if you ask me.
and - BTW - you CAN have ammo with it as long as it is packaged appropriately. I've flown lots of times wherein the magaizine satisfied the description, (just not IN your weapon).
WRMETTLER
12-19-2011, 11:41
This guy lost his case both at the trial court and 3rd Cir. Court of Appeals level. He's trying to appeal to the Supreme Court.
The Courts have ruled that when he removed the locked case from the airport to his hotel room, kept it over night in his hotel room in NJ (where he had access to it) and then tried to re-check it in to the airport the next day, he violated the NJ state law.
The Court ruled that the federal law did not apply, because it had 2 elements that must be satisfied.
1) possession of the weapon must be permitted in both states where the traveler is starting and ending, and 2) the firearm must not be readily accessible during the trip.
He had access to the weapon while staying in the hotel room. He lost. Had he kept the locked case at the airport in storage, he probably would have won the case.
His firearm are returned in July '08.
The TSA discovered the gun in the case as it was being re-checked into the airlines. However, a local NJ officer arrested the man. This seems to me to be a reasonable procedure. The arresting officer was sued for doing his job, and had to participate in the litigation. He was dismissed as a result of this ruling.
The NJ gun rights group still has its lawsuit going.
Sionnach
01-02-2012, 00:16
I *wish* the Supremes would accept and issue a pro-2A ruling, but I have little faith that will happen.