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tonyz
12-14-2011, 08:50
Arguably a good outcome (no shots fired) but an interesting use of expensive technology - the tin-foil hats will undoubtedly come out.

Daily Mail - Online

Wednesday, Dec 14 2011Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073248/Local-cops-used-Predator-drone-arrest-North-Dakota-farm-family-stealing-6-cows.html

Excerpts:

Meet the Brossarts, a North Dakota family deemed so dangerous that the local sheriff needed unleashed an unmanned Predator drone to help bring them in.
The Brossart's alleged crime? They wouldn't give back three cows and their calves that wandered onto their 3,000-acre farm this summer.

The same aerial vehicles used by the CIA to track down and assassinate terrorists and militants in Pakistan and Afghanistan are now being deployed by cops to spy on Americans in their own backyards.

When cops returned to collect the lost cattle, three of Brossart's sons - Alex, Jacob and Thomas - confronted Sheriff Janke with rifles and shotguns and would not allow officers on the farm.

That's when the sheriff summoned a $154 million MQ-9 Predator B drone from nearby Grand Forks Air Force Base, where it was patrolling the US-Canada border for the US Department of Homeland Security.

Using a handheld device that picked up the video camera footage from the spy plane, Sheriff Janke was able to watch the movements of everyone on the farm.
During an 16-hour standoff, the sheriff and his deputies waited until they could see the remaining Brossarts put down their weapons. Then, dressed in SWAT gear, they stormed the compound and arrested the three Brossart sons. No shots were fired.

Paslode
12-14-2011, 09:22
Arguably a good outcome (no shots fired) but an interesting use of expensive technology - the tin-foil hats will undoubtedly come out.

Two interesting articles on domestic drones from the not exactly tin foil Salon.com.

NPR’s domestic drone commercial (http://www.salon.com/2011/12/06/nprs_domestic_drone_commercial/)

Excerpt:
Excitement over America’s use of drones in multiple Muslim countries is, predictably, causing those weapons to be imported onto U.S. soil. Federal law enforcement agencies and local police forces are buying more and more of them and putting them to increasingly diverse domestic uses, as well as patrolling the border, and even private corporations are now considering how to use them. One U.S. drone manufacturer advertises its product as ideal for “urban monitoring.” Orlando’s police department originally requested two drones to use for security at next year’s GOP convention, only to change their minds for budgetary reasons. One new type of drone already in use by the U.S. military in Afghanistan — the Gorgon Stare, named after the “mythical Greek creature whose unblinking eyes turned to stone those who beheld them” — is “able to scan an area the size of a small town” and “the most sophisticated robotics use artificial intelligence that [can] seek out and record certain kinds of suspicious activity”; boasted one U.S. General: “Gorgon Stare will be looking at a whole city, so there will be no way for the adversary to know what we’re looking at, and we can see everything.”

The growing menace of domestic drones (http://www.salon.com/2011/12/12/the_growing_menace_of_domestic_drones/)

Excerpt:
Last week, I wrote about the rapidly growing domestic drone industry and the largely undiscussed dangers it poses. The Los Angeles Times yesterday reported that local police in North Dakota used a Predator B drone — the most common unmanned aircraft employed by the U.S. military to attack and kill “insurgents” in the Muslim world — to apprehend three men. The suspects had refused to turn over six cows which had wandered onto their land (the laws governing open-range ownership are in dispute and the farm owners claimed they are entitled to keep the cows); after being tasered in an earlier incident on their land for allegedly resisting arrest, they brandished weapons at the officers who came to seize the cows. The police, armed with a warrant, then called in a Predator drone to fly over their land, locate them, and transmit video images to the police; when the drone revealed the suspects were unarmed, the police entered their property and arrested them.




Just imagine what TSA could do with a few of these :eek:

tonyz
12-14-2011, 09:31
Just imagine what TSA could do with a few of these :eek:

"...boasted one U.S. General: “Gorgon Stare will be looking at a whole city, so there will be no way for the adversary to know what we’re looking at, and we can see everything.”

Damn, Big Sis just might get an upgrade. :eek:

Buffalobob
12-14-2011, 11:13
They wouldn't give back three cows and their calves that wandered onto their 3,000-acre farm this summer

That's certainly a heinous crime!

Felix87
12-14-2011, 11:49
The drones are used extensively by border patrol, and many large cities employ different variants for their SWAT teams. When I re-classed out of the UAV field the number one jobs were for General Dynamics, going back to the box as a contractor, and flying the same birds we did down range on the border.

BOfH
12-14-2011, 13:22
This is nothing new, DARPA ran a man portable drone contest[1] some time back, and some LEO's[2][3] have picked up on the technology. By the way, you know those $50 RC birds, add a decent wireless camera...you get the point...


[1]http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/05/is-darpa-recruiting-wireds-editor-to-build-drones/
[2]http://gaycitynews.com/articles/2011/08/11/gay_city_news/news/doc4e4414474e153994147714.txt
[3]http://gothamist.com/2011/12/05/good_to_know_the_nypd_has_six_subma.php

tonyz
12-14-2011, 13:34
This is nothing new, DARPA ran a man portable drone contest[1] some time back, and some LEO's[2][3] have picked up on the technology. By the way, you know those $50 RC birds, add a decent wireless camera...you get the point...

The technology may or may not be new...but, a local sheriff summoning a $154 million MQ-9 Predator B drone from an Air Force Base for use against some local folks strikes me as slightly unusual. Then again...it very well may be the future.

Streck-Fu
12-14-2011, 13:49
Seems like the Sheriff was pissed that he was outgunned during the visit.

longrange1947
12-14-2011, 15:39
That's certainly a heinous crime!

Used to get hung by the neck until dead over it. :munchin

BOfH
12-14-2011, 16:52
The technology may or may not be new...but, a local sheriff summoning a $154 million MQ-9 Predator B drone from an Air Force Base for use against some local folks strikes me as slightly unusual. Then again...it very well may be the future.

True that. Expensive toys are always fun when it's not your dime on the line. I wonder how that sheriff spun this one when requesting CAS from the AF for use on the locals... :munchin

ETA: Answered my own wondering, keyword: anti-government separatists = Must be those "terrorists" that Big Sis Janet is so worried about...

Felix87
12-15-2011, 09:38
Pure guess work, but just from experience the drone was probably in the air and they just request an eyes on the compound. We would do BDA for artillery ranges if we were in between missions during training. The articles make it sound like the family was going to be under fire.

Pete
12-15-2011, 10:56
So much for trying to burn some yard waste in your back yard without using the fire pit.

Bitz
12-15-2011, 11:50
Well hell. I guess i will have to do a recon from now on before I piss out my back fence.

~Bitz

Pete
12-15-2011, 13:28
Well hell. I guess i will have to do a recon from now on before I piss out my back fence.

~Bitz


Which brings op a good point - since I've been known to mark the back yard now and again. If you are out in your back yard at night "marking" and they do a zoom in with the IR - can you be arrested for public urination? Sex Crime?

I would have put that in pink - but I'm just not all that sure these days.

Utah Bob
12-15-2011, 18:19
That's it! No more nekkid target shooting at my range!:mad:

BOfH
01-11-2012, 15:21
EFF aims to find out: https://www.eff.org/press/releases/who-flying-unmanned-aircraft-us


Who Is Flying Unmanned Aircraft in the U.S.?
Government Withholds Information on Drone Flight Authorizations


San Francisco - The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) filed suit today against the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT), demanding data on certifications and authorizations the agency has issued for the operation of unmanned aircraft, also known as drones.

Drones are designed to carry surveillance equipment – including video cameras, infrared cameras and heat sensors, and radar – that can allow for sophisticated and almost constant surveillance. They can also carry weapons. Traditionally, drones have been used almost exclusively by military and security organizations. However, the U.S. Customs and Border Protection uses drones inside the United States to patrol the U.S. borders, and state and local law enforcement are increasingly using unmanned aircraft for investigations into things like cattle rustling, drug dealing, and the search for missing persons.

Any drone flying over 400 feet needs a certification or authorization from the Federal Aviation Administration, part of the DOT. But there is currently no information available to the public about who specifically has obtained these authorizations or for what purposes. EFF filed a Freedom of Information Act request in April of 2011 for records of unmanned aircraft activities, but the DOT so far has failed to provide the information.

"Drones give the government and other unmanned aircraft operators a powerful new surveillance tool to gather extensive and intrusive data on Americans' movements and activities," said EFF Staff Attorney Jennifer Lynch. "As the government begins to make policy decisions about the use of these aircraft, the public needs to know more about how and why these drones are being used to surveil United States citizens."

Dozens of companies and research organizations are working to develop even more sophisticated drones, so their use is poised for a dramatic expansion in the coming years. Meanwhile, news reports indicate that the FAA is studying ways to integrate more drones into the national airspace because of increased demand from federal, state, and local governments. EFF's lawsuit asks for immediate response to our FOIA request, including the release of data on any certificates and authorizations issued for unmanned aircraft flights, expired authorizations, and any applications that have been denied.

"The use of drones in American airspace could dramatically increase the physical tracking of citizens – tracking that can reveal deeply personal details about our private lives," said Lynch. "We're asking the DOT to follow the law and respond to our FOIA request so we can learn more about who is flying the drones and why."

For the full complaint:
https://www.eff.org/sites/default/files/filenode/EFFDroneComplaint.pdf

For more on this case:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/01/drones-are-watching-you

Contact:

Jennifer Lynch
Staff Attorney
Electronic Frontier Foundation
jlynch@eff.org

BOfH
02-27-2012, 13:01
It probably wouldn't be too hard to jam one of these things, and considering the captured footage of USAF drones in Iraq, I have my doubts on encrypted video links with these. Aside from the legal issues of interfering with LEO during investigation, reverse engineering these things is going to be fun. MOO: I foresee more drone work and less leg work on the part of LEO, and don't forget kids, technology is much easier to spoof and defraud than an experienced LEO... :munchin

http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/smile-drone-coming-police-stations-near-you-soon

wpd654
02-27-2012, 14:35
I would imagine there will be some court cases coming soon related to fourth amendment issues regarding this new technology available to law enforcement. I see it going in a two pronged direction in criminal cases.

The first would be that a warrant will be needed in order to fly if the purpose is to gather information related to criminal activity. Since the drones are capable of viewing areas previously out of reach, the courts may decide the use of such aircraft would fall under unreasonable search and seizure. This is similar to the way thermal imaging was contested in marijuana grow operation cases and why the recent Supreme Court decision, requiring a warrant to place GPS devices on vehicles under surveillance was decided the way it was.

The second would be that drones or aerial surveillance would have to be an exception applied for in the warrant application. Much like no-knock or night-time searches have to be independently justified in the warrant application in order to be permitted.

Personally I am excited for the search and rescue applications of these drones. Missing children, emotionally disturbed persons and vulnerable adults that walk off, easily overload resources. Helicopter support is not always available and will not always fly if the subject is armed. Unmanned aircraft would be a great tool in these situations.

Team Sergeant
02-27-2012, 15:03
Yeah, the heck with those satellites that can see into your house from space and they cannot even be detected......:munchin

I envision a lot of drone misuse in the near future. "Missing children, emotionally disturbed persons and vulnerable adults that walk off,"

Surely you jest, all those people on the no fly list and the TSA Watch List will be followed 24/7 by those drones...........

Satellite Signature Suppression Shield." The application described an inflatable shield that could protect satellites from detection by radar, laser, infrared, and optical systems.

Pete
02-27-2012, 15:11
I.............Personally I am excited for the search and rescue applications of these drones. Missing children, emotionally disturbed persons and vulnerable adults that walk off, easily overload resources. Helicopter support is not always available and will not always fly if the subject is armed. Unmanned aircraft would be a great tool in these situations.


I see the "good" that can be done with the devices. Most small to good size communities can not afford manned airborne platforms.

A trunk sized device that could be cruising town and deployed if need be for Search & Rescue, High Speed pursuit & bail outs, etc. etc.

My worry is a couple of LEOs bored with the days work and "Lets see what we can find...."

BOfH
02-27-2012, 15:15
Yeah, the heck with those satellites that can see into your house from space and they cannot even be detected......:munchin


QP TS,

True, but your local Joe sheriff isn't getting access to them anytime soon(well, except maybe the NYPD), drones on the other hand, well, if you can't buy one, you can always build one: http://www.diydrones.com/ Once again, that fine line between lawful and unlawful surveillance just gets harder to see...

Badger52
02-27-2012, 15:15
My worry is a couple of LEOs bored with the days work and "Lets see what we can find...."Done all the time with license plate checks that end up, "Roger, toss it."

Pete
02-27-2012, 15:45
Done all the time with license plate checks that end up, "Roger, toss it."

We've seen the TSA and how it handles a good looking chick going through the scanner "Sorry Ms, one more time" "OK, boys hand enough."

Wait until some teenage daughter comes running in the house from sun bathing in the back yard - "Daddy, daddy, there's some strange thing hovering over the trees in the back yard."

wpd654
02-27-2012, 16:46
There will be cops that will abuse it if there are not sufficient restraints placed on their use. One question would be the use of these vehicles for “proactive patrol”. Many cities have installed CCTV cameras in high crime areas and our metro interstate highways are also monitored. These tools are used in good faith to deter and detect crime in publicly accessible places. UMAV’s provide a level of accessibility to private property not available to state and local law enforcement previously and could be easily be viewed as too intrusive in most cases.

As stated by others, these vehicles will be cost prohibitive for most agencies, which leads me to believe they will ultimately have to be obtained by federal grants. There may be an opportunity for the feds to impose operational guidelines as part of the grants that balance the benefits of UMAV with their inherent abuse capability, wishful thinking on my part.

I know nothing of the rules of federal agencies for deploying these vehicles in the US. This is an area of domestic law enforcement that will surely be closely monitored by the courts and the general public, as it should be.