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robert60446
11-26-2011, 09:14
Hello,
First let me say that I'm no stranger to rucksack marching with heavy load. Working with 240B is a gift which keeps on giving...however now I'm practicing to improve my pace for tryouts which from my understanding is much more demanding than usual "infantry" pace. As of today I'm averaging between 13:30 to 14:00 a mile. However this can't be accomplished without running with my 65 lbs rucksack. I will run (jog) for 200 meters and fast walk for another 200 meters and so on. Looks like this formula is working for me, however after last 6 miles march my right knee started to give me some troubles...From what i have been told so far, soldier should never run with rucksack, but without the "running part" i don't see any other way to keep 14:00 and below per mile pace...Am i doing something wrong here? I would appreciate any input on this.

Ps. I posted under 20th group, because I'm preparing for 20th group tryouts. I apologize if this is incorrect section...

The Reaper
11-26-2011, 09:56
There are only two ways to ruck faster.

You either have to take longer strides, or take more of them.

If you are already taking the longest strides you are comfortable with, you have limited yourself to one solution.

Step up the pace, and walk as fast as you can, and if that fails (as it would appear to from your description), you need to find a rucking buddy who rucks at your target pace and follow him when he goes out for a walk. As with any other conditioning event, you may not be initially able to keep up with him for the full distance, but you need to go a little farther each time and push yourself till you can ruck at your target pace the entire time.

I would not run with the ruck unless it was for a real world or record event and I was running far behind.

You may want to use the Search button before starting new threads in the future. This has already been covered.

Best of luck.

TR

robert60446
11-26-2011, 11:43
Thank you Reaper. I can walk now at pace 16:00 per mile (without running), so I guess I just have to push myself little harder. Mother nature blessed me with long legs so no excuses!

Best regards
Robert

bubba
11-26-2011, 11:54
Robert,

I am not sure if it's the "giving season" or that you are from Illinois, but I'll give ya a quick help that may get ya moving a little faster. To help lengthen your stride, and therefore get your feet to move faster, lead with your heal when you stride. Most people lead with the ball of the foot, if you lead with the heal it naturally makes your leg straighten out and lengthens your stride. At first you'll feel like you are falling, mostly cause you are, but that little bit of inertia will also help conserve energy. Hope this makes sense, now go ruck and do the best you can.......

robert60446
11-26-2011, 12:21
Robert,

I am not sure if it's the "giving season" or that you are from Illinois, but I'll give ya a quick help that may get ya moving a little faster. To help lengthen your stride, and therefore get your feet to move faster, lead with your heal when you stride. Most people lead with the ball of the foot, if you lead with the heal it naturally makes your leg straighten out and lengthens your stride. At first you'll feel like you are falling, mostly cause you are, but that little bit of inertia will also help conserve energy. Hope this makes sense, now go ruck and do the best you can.......

Bubba,
Thank you for your tip. I have never really paid any attention to way how i walk...but i see I may greatly benefit from your advise. I will give it a try on Monday!

Best regards
Robert

robert60446
11-29-2011, 10:29
Hi guys,
I'm happy to report that based on your feedback i was able to improve my marching technique during 6 mile "warmup" march yesterday. I have finished in 1h:23. This is without running at all. Still got some room for improvement, but my knees are very thankful...

robert60446
01-30-2012, 09:46
Quick question, anyone knows where in Joliet area I can find place to practice rope climbing? I have visited all the local fitness centers and none of them has ropes...any ideas? The last time I have done rope climbing, it was at Ft. Benning and i'm little bit rusty in "rope climbing department"...

Scimitar
01-30-2012, 11:43
It's a while ago now, but I had a similar issue, I bought a quality climbing rope for less then $100 total and would hang it from this tree in the backyard.

Also do schools still carry ropes, or is that too dangerous now? :rolleyes:

Crossfit Gyms almost always have ropes, google your local Crossfit Gyms call around.

Another thought, try climbing gyms, although they tend to want to have you Belayed while you're doing it, extra cost and hassle.

Also, something I found helpful when I only had limited access to a rope, I hung a towel over a bar and did "pull-ups" to work the same muscles, all you need the actual rope for is technique practice, relatively easy skill to master I found, not requiring hours and hours of rope time. I trained on the towel, practiced technique on the rope.

HTH

S

robert60446
01-31-2012, 13:14
Thank you S. Per your advise, I did executed set of "towel pull-ups" yesterday. I can feel the difference...;-)

abc_123
02-01-2012, 17:02
Remember that with the towel, while great for hitting the arms/lats at the same angle as a "real" rope climb, is is not optimal for maximizing the strength of your grip on the rope.

Doing a pullup with a towel or pulling yourself up a rope is an isometric exercise for your grip.

Isometric exercises make you stronger in a narrow range of the total movement of the muscle(s).

So if your towel is thin and the rope you will be grabbing is thick...you won't be as strong on the thick rope as you are on something the same thickness of the towel.

If you want to approximate the stress on the muscles of your hand/forearm, best would be to get a short length of real rope the thickness that you will climb (2.5"?) and use that. It will be the right size so the isometric contraction will be where you need it when you are climbing a rope "for real".

Short of the rope, you could also figure out a way to make the towel thicker on the ends. Personally I would tape them up so that they won't be squishy like a towel and more solid like a manilla rope, but that's me. OR, you could separate the grip component and figure out some other open-handed isometric grip exercises that approximate the distance that your hand would have to span while pulling on a climbing rope.

Up to you to figure out.

robert60446
02-02-2012, 07:44
Thank you "abc_1223" - I did taped the towel at the ends and it is close to 2.5" OD. Works great for now. However, I do like your idea about adding piece of real rope. Since I have built my own pull up bar in the backyard, it is really a toll one, so I think I could make even better use of it by adding short piece of rope. Granted it is not going to be near close to the "real thing" but it is better than nothing...

robert60446
02-27-2012, 14:49
Little more than 2 weeks left before the tryouts weekend and I have a final question. Should I adjust (trim down) my training routine or keep it the same to the very end?

chance
02-27-2012, 19:12
If it was me, I would keep training at the same intensity or rather harder intensity than what I think I might be tested at during the try-out.

caveman
02-27-2012, 21:30
I've always preferred tapering in the last week or so before whatever I've been training for and not doing anything besides stretching for the last two or three days. I feel this allows me to show up without that persistent state of soreness that accompanies any good train-up. The length of tapering and rest will obviously vary depending on the event in question and the length of the training cycle (i.e. 5k vs. marathon).

EleaticStranger
03-10-2012, 06:35
I just finished SERE, and I'd say that the tryout weekend was the hardest, most strenuous single two days of the NG pipeline. (Of course you get to go home and rest at the end of it, which you don't during any other parts.) Without giving away any G2 about the tryout weekend I attended, I'd just say that it would be a good idea to be able to walk at least a 15 min/mile pace for 12-15 miles. If you're like me, you'll have to work up to this. And I'm definitely not saying not to try out if you can't do this pace. (The worst that will likely happen is they tell you to come back.) Don't run at all with a ruck while training. There's no training value there that can't be gained by simply rucking and doing sprints without a ruck, and it's hell on your joints. Save the ruck running for the tryout weekend. To get up to that pace, just always walk faster than is comfortable when you ruck, to the point where your legs are burning. Train a good two months in advance for the tryout. It won't go to waste. Once you start the process, you'll be training non-stop until you finish the Q (and after, of course, but I haven't gotten there yet). By the time you report to the Q, you'll want to be able to ruck 12 miles with a 45 lbs. ruck in under three hours, rest for 30 minutes, and then run five miles if you had to. That's not an event, per se, but that's the kind of shape you want to be in. The sooner you get there, the sooner you can surpass that level. I struggled to ruck at a 15 min./mile pace when I started but did my 12 miler before SUT in about 2:30, which is well below 13 min/mile.

As far as a training plan before the tryout weekend, I would start far enough out so that you can work up to 12 miles two or three weeks before the weekend. Ruck twice a week, once long (six, eight, ten, or 12) and once short (four miles). Run light or hard on the off days and put at least one rest day a week in there. Do your pushups, situps, pullups, etc. on the days you're not doing the long ruck (and obviously have days you're resting from those). I would taper before the tryout weekend. Do a short ruck the weekend before and your APFT training on Monday and Tuesday, but pretty much take it easy Wednesday through Friday.

There will be a lot of guys at the tryout completely unprepared. Don't be one of those. The weekend will kick your tail if it's anything like the A/2/20 weekend I attended, but it's finite. Prepare, and if you can't take whatever they throw at you in that weekend, how can you respect yourself? (That's what I thought, anyway, when I wanted to quit.) The weekend, and subsequent training team weekends, though, are really good suck-innoculation as well as great training. I was one of six selected the weekend I went. One quit after one training team weekend for family reasons, the other five are moving through the pipeline.

robert60446
03-10-2012, 07:36
Thank you guys. I will do my best. Now, I'm back to PT...

robert60446
03-18-2012, 07:37
Guys,
My SF dream is over. I got blisters size of baseball in the middle of my feet (both feet) and can't even walk now...i got my rear end kicked, but still i think it was worth it. You learn a lot about yourself from events like this.

Cadre was extremely professional and looking after the soldiers (we had record high temperatures for march - 84F). Event is very well organized and going at the fast pace. You will receive feedback on your performance and advise on what you have to improve. As i said, cadre is really looking after the soldiers, but you have to meet their standards in order to advance. That's the bottom line.

Good luck to everyone who will be going in to the tryouts in the future!

Thanks to everyone for your help.

The Reaper
03-18-2012, 10:18
Robert:

Sounds like not enough time rucking on a variety of terrain with the ruck and boots you were going to be wearing. Walking on sand will exacerbate that.

Don't write off using the knowledge you have gained to better prepare yourself and giving it another shot some time in the future.

Thanks for giving it a try. Best of luck.

TR

robert60446
03-18-2012, 12:14
Sounds like not enough time rucking on a variety of terrain with the ruck and boots you were going to be wearing. Walking on sand will exacerbate that.


TR, you are 100% correct with your observations about my marching workouts. I was always marching on the flat terrain - mainly on asphalt roads surrounding our neighborhood and i did pay a price for it during the tryouts...you can't go forward without your feet. It is simple as this...

Dusty
03-18-2012, 12:21
Guys,
My SF dream is over. I got blisters size of baseball in the middle of my feet (both feet) and can't even walk now...i got my rear end kicked, but still i think it was worth it. You learn a lot about yourself from events like this.

Cadre was extremely professional and looking after the soldiers (we had record high temperatures for march - 84F). Event is very well organized and going at the fast pace. You will receive feedback on your performance and advise on what you have to improve. As i said, cadre is really looking after the soldiers, but you have to meet their standards in order to advance. That's the bottom line.

Good luck to everyone who will be going in to the tryouts in the future!

Thanks to everyone for your help.

Blisters? We used to just pop 'em and scoot. Must have been something else...

robert60446
03-19-2012, 06:53
Blisters? We used to just pop 'em and scoot. Must have been something else...

Dusty,
No matter what kind of excuse i could offer at this point, the bottom line is: i have failed to perform at the top level. It all goes back to my training. Not enough ruck marching time. During my workouts, i have adjusted training to my needs instead of adjusting my body to the training program. The final effect - total failure.
Right from the beginning cadre was straight forward: "You will need to be in the best physical shape of your life in order to be successful during the Evaluation weekend."
I have nobody else to blame, but myself...still i'm happy i was there and that i give it my best shot. Is just my best shot was not good enough, but i have learned a lot about my body and i know what i have to improve - this is priceless...

The Reaper
03-19-2012, 17:23
Dusty,
No matter what kind of excuse i could offer at this point, the bottom line is: i have failed to perform at the top level. It all goes back to my training. Not enough ruck marching time. During my workouts, i have adjusted training to my needs instead of adjusting my body to the training program. The final effect - total failure.
Right from the beginning cadre was straight forward: "You will need to be in the best physical shape of your life in order to be successful during the Evaluation weekend."
I have nobody else to blame, but myself...still i'm happy i was there and that i give it my best shot. Is just my best shot was not good enough, but i have learned a lot about my body and i know what i have to improve - this is priceless...

Imagine the same stress level for more than three weeks. Or even the shorter period it is now.

TR

DevilSide
12-29-2013, 23:12
Rucking is something that I've become better at with time, my PSG told me to lead with my heals and rotate my hips slightly to get extra reach while letting my arms swing and I can say it's helped my pace a good amount.