View Full Version : Male Nurse Fired in Dearborn for Treating Muslim Women
De facto Sharia in Dearborn, Michigan. Those pesky 'conservative' Muslim males. I'll bet they are Tea Party supporters.
Nurse Says He Was Fired Over Treating Muslim Women
Published November 24, 2011
| Associated Press
DEARBORN, Mich. – A male registered nurse and Vietnam war Army medic has sued the Detroit suburb of Dearborn, saying he was fired for disobeying a Muslim supervisor's order not to treat women wearing conservative Islamic dress.
John Benitez Jr. filed a sex discrimination suit Wednesday in Detroit U.S. District Court after getting the go-ahead from the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission in a "right to sue" letter Oct. 19.
The Associated Press left phone and email messages during the Thanksgiving holiday seeking comment from Dearborn officials. The Detroit News said a Dearborn spokeswoman declined comment.
In a complaint filed on his behalf, his lawyer, Deborah L. Gordon, said Benitez joined Dearborn's Health Department in September 2010. The 63-year-old Madison Heights resident has a three-decade nursing career. Dearborn has a large Muslim community and one of the largest Arab immigrant communities in the U.S.
Soon after starting work, Gordon said a Muslim supervisor told Benitez to refer patients wearing hijab to her, rather than treating them himself.
The complaint said Benitez complied until Nov. 17, 2010, when a doctor saw what he was doing and questioned him "about the cumbersome and unusual practice of taking women wearing a head scarf to the nursing supervisor for care," rather than going ahead and treating them.
The complaint said Benitez then began complying with the new instruction that he treat women wearing hijab.
On Dec. 1, 2010, Gordon said Benitez was fired. She said he was told it was "not because of any performance problem, but was instead carried out because the clinic's conservative male Muslim clientele did not want a male treating female patients."
Link (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/24/nurse-says-was-fired-over-treating-muslim-women/)
BigJimCalhoun
11-25-2011, 19:00
..and if he did not treat someone and that person died, we would be charged with a hate crime.
De facto Sharia in Dearborn, Michigan.
More backassward, uneducated crap from world of the Muslim male. Muslim women's health have suffered for decades because of the belief that no male shall see her except for her insecure weanie of husband.
This is fresh on my mind because I just finished reading a story about 3 Muslim women who were allowed to die by their husbands, rather than let them be treated by a male doctor. Idiots. All of them.
Rant over.
Susan
Oh, and may that male nurse be vindicated in every way.
mark46th
11-25-2011, 19:49
We had better start putting an end to this nonsense. Now.
We had better start putting an end to this nonsense. Now.
That's a fact. This PC bullcrap and bending over (no pun intended) to those frickin idiots has got to cease.
Keep them in the 11th century. Good Lord, it never ceases to amaze me...:mad:
Two points I notice.
1 - It was a public health service not private.
2 - He failed to do what his supervisor told him to do.
This court case will be interesting based on - Just what rules a public provider can put in place. Wonder if the female doc's can see male patients?
I'll wait to hear the entire story because it appears to me as if the following could be considered in deciding this case:
The guy was working in a city health department facility performing routine services. He was fired in December 2010 and the Dearborn, MI, health department was closed 30 June 2011 due to budget cuts and all such services are now performed at local public or private medical facilities. The Dallas County Health and Human Services is typical of such a department. http://www.dallascounty.org/department/hhs/mission.html
The guy's direct supervisor told him not to do something ICW some of the local community's wishes, a not unreasonable request for a non-medical emergency.
The guy's direct supervisor's orders were countermanded by someone else and he did not go back to his supervisor to let her know of the conflicting instructions from the doctor, thus having his supervisor and the doctor decide the issue before going against his direct supervisor's instructions.
I'll wait for the rest of the story.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
...... The guy's direct supervisor told him not to do something ICW some of the local community's wishes, a not unreasonable request for a non-medical emergency.........
"Local community's wishes" gets stepped on a lot by Federal law.
Interesting problem. On one hand, the community has spoken. If a woman in a hajib does not want male medical personnel to touch her, doesn't she have that right?
On the other hand, how much of her thought-process is unduly influenced by heavy handed patriarchy and religious law?
Is she right to say no? Or is she brain-washed to say no? If you assert that she has to be treated by a male nurse, aren't you doing the same thing -- as far as limiting her choices -- as her religion/ male family members?
She needs to comply with the law of the land, just as everyone does.
She needs to comply with the law of the land, just as everyone does.
She wasn't? Or is 'compulsory' or 'mandatory' medical treatment now the 'law of the land'? :confused:
See Commonwealth v. Twitchell, e.g. http://www.nymatlaw.com/commonwealth-twitchell-617-ne2d-609/
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
She wasn't? Or is 'compulsory' or 'mandatory' medical treatment now the 'law of the land'? :confused:
See Commonwealth v. Twitchell, e.g. http://www.nymatlaw.com/commonwealth-twitchell-617-ne2d-609/
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
Did I say she wasn't?
mark46th
11-26-2011, 09:24
The immediate supervisor was not a doctor. A doctor told him to do something contrary to the supervisor's orders. In hospitals, I thought a doctor's words were law only superceded by a doctor higher up in the pecking order.
A doctor dies and goes to Heaven. Arriving at the Pearly Gates, he sees there is a long, long line. He walks up to the front of the line and confronts St Peter. "I'm Dr Johnson, I shouldn't have to wait in line because I am a doctor!" St Peter replies, "Everyone here is equal, you can wait just like everyone else."
Just then a man in a lab coat with a stethoscope around his neck walks in through the gates and says, "Hey Pete!". Dr Johnson is irate. He says, That guy is a doctor and didn't have to wait!" St Peter says, "Nah. That's God, he just thinks he's a doctor..."
If a female were to come me wearing a hijab and it's NOT an emergency...I'm sending her to someone else!:cool:
Stay safe.
Hmm, Dusty.
Isn't the law of the land religious freedom? Generally speaking?
It is what it is, according to locale.
PedOncoDoc
11-26-2011, 13:06
The patient, as the consumer and the person who is in a vulnerable situation, has the right to request a doctor in accordance with their cultural and/or religious beliefs.
Having said that -- and unless I am missing something -- I didn't see any report of formal complaints raised by female patients in traditional garb - the complaint was by the supervising nurse, who also is expected to carry out orders written by the treating physician (unless felt to be harmful/erroneous). Perhaps the supervising nurse is forcing her beliefs on her female patients based upon assumptions made by how they dress. Is that not also inappropriate?
It would be interesting to see what would happen if a patient refused to be seen by a muslim physician, or a gay physician, or a black physician (or a gay black muslim physician), and the physician wanted recourse due to "descrimination".
greenberetTFS
11-26-2011, 13:34
The patient, as the consumer and the person who is in a vulnerable situation, has the right to request a doctor in accordance with their cultural and/or religious beliefs.
Having said that -- and unless I am missing something -- I didn't see any report of formal complaints raised by female patients in traditional garb - the complaint was by the supervising nurse, who also is expected to carry out orders written by the treating physician (unless felt to be harmful/erroneous). Perhaps the supervising nurse is forcing her beliefs on her female patients based upon assumptions made by how they dress. Is that not also inappropriate?
It would be interesting to see what would happen if a patient refused to be seen by a muslim physician, or a gay physician, or a black physician (or a gay black muslim physician).... (:eek:) and the physician wanted recourse due to "descrimination".
:rolleyes: :p
Big Teddy :munchin
Perhaps the supervising nurse is forcing her beliefs on her female patients based upon assumptions made by how they dress. Is that not also inappropriate?Yes it's inappropriate however, because of the AO (Islamic strong-hold:eek:) they're working in; no one's going to say much...:munchin
Stay safe.
Considering the department was closed due to budget cuts, is it an efficient use of personnel and limited taxpayer funds to require all Muslim females to be seen by the Muslim female supervisor? When there were other qualified staff capable of administering flu shots?
If the husbands don't want their wives to be treated by males, then take them to a private medical clinic catering to devout Muslims. But that would cost them more money, would it not? Better to let the kafir foot the bill. Anyway, due to the kafir's self-destructive political correctness, they will bend over backwards to accommodate your misogynistic culture.
...The suit alleges that after he began work in September 2010, a Muslim female nursing supervisor told Benitez to stop treating women she deemed “conservative,” specifically any woman wearing a hijab, the traditional Islamic head scarf worn by many Muslim women in accordance with the faith’s belief in modest dress. Instead, the suit said, Benitez was directed to send such patients to the nursing supervisor for care.
Benitez said he followed this instruction until Nov. 17, 2010, when a health department doctor saw Benitez abstain from treating a Muslim woman and questioned why he wasn’t treating her.
Benitez had transitioned a patient who was receiving a flu shot to the nursing supervisor rather than issue the shot himself.
Benitez explained the directive from the nursing supervisor and the doctor told him the process was “improper” and to treat Muslim women the same as he would patients of any other religion, race, color or ethnicity.
Benitez said he followed the new instructions and within two weeks he was out of a job...
Source (http://www.pressandguide.com/articles/2011/11/26/none/doc4ecfa6a4c284b975843388.txt?viewmode=fullstory)
The nurse was supposed to receive training during his education to prevent situations like that. It is part of his job description to be aware of a patient's culture and religion, and adjust his care in order not to conflict with them. Nursing students are also taught that some female patients may not speak out against a male health care provider even though it conflicts with their beliefs. It is the RN's job to be aware of all the facts in order to prevent patient discomfort.
Additionally, unless an MD is paying a nurse as an employee, or the health care facility's COC is specifically structured as such, he is not their boss. This is a common misconception with the general populace. The supervising nurse is. The MD makes diagnoses, assigns medications, and medical treatments for each patient. RNs are not MDs assistants, PAs are.
I think there is more than meets the eye about this story however. If the female patient DID consent to his care, or if it were an emergency situation, then he was in the right. 10,000 howling muslim men can't change that fact.
dr. mabuse
11-27-2011, 10:23
Well, in support of our women in white, they can examine my rash anytime.:rolleyes:
I'll take Richard's advice this time and wait and see what this "tempest in a teapot" develops into.:munchin
greenberetTFS
11-27-2011, 16:43
Considering the department was closed due to budget cuts, is it an efficient use of personnel and limited taxpayer funds to require all Muslim females to be seen by the Muslim female supervisor? When there were other qualified staff capable of administering flu shots?
If the husbands don't want their wives to be treated by males, then take them to a private medical clinic catering to devout Muslims. But that would cost them more money, would it not? Better to let the kafir foot the bill. Anyway, due to the kafir's self-destructive political correctness, they will bend over backwards to accommodate your misogynistic culture.
I absolutely agree with SF-TX,he's right on target.......... We cater to damn much to these muslims and their BS........ :mad: It's got to stop somewhere and why not now........:mad: That BS about that muslim check out woman at Walmart.......:mad:
We(our)Country has to find a way to put an end to this shit with them before it's to late and we won't be able to...........:mad:
Big Teddy
Sorry man but that is EXACTLY the kind of crap I am talking about. Nurses are supposed to be psychic now? How many cultures do they have to become an expert in? If the pt. does not speak up IT IS NOT THE NURSES FAULT. Personal responsibility is or used to be part of the American way. If they dont like it then move away. If I go to the middle east my culture is to eat pork. Will they feed me pork?
As for the Dr. not being the boss of the nurse well that depends. Let a nurse refuse to give meds or otherwise do what an MD tells them to do and see how fast that nurse gets their lic yanked.
What happed to peoples cajones in this country anyway?
The nurse is supposed to be culturally competent as dictated by the area that they serve. As I said, the nurse received training in what to do in these situations, and received specific instruction from his supervisor that he was following happily up until he decided not to. When interacting with any female patient, I personally always ask them if I have the go ahead prior to touching them, especially if it involves sensitive areas. That includes white catholic women. And I sure as heck do not start grabbing on a woman wearing a hijab that lists their religion in the client record as islamic. I also don't let my left hand touch food that I'm feeding to a middle eastern immigrant regardless of their religion. It's called situational awareness.
The client's well being and comfort are top priorities for an RN. Giving meds and performing medical treatments are only one side of the coin. It is why the profession exists in the first place. It isn't about "cajones", because your own personal beliefs don't factor into the care you give, period. You are forced to care for rapists, and child molesters the same way you are accommodating for the wounded veteran two rooms away. If one can't handle that, they don't become a nurse. Simple as that.
Nurses can and do refuse to give medications. Why do you think they learn Pharmacology? Doctors make mistakes. It is ingrained in new nurses that they are personally responsible for everything that they do or don't do. That includes not doing anything harmful to the patient (Save for DNR orders, which the client or their POA signs off on), despite what the patient's MD says. Additionally MD's DO NOT dictate how RN's do their jobs. That garbage stopped a long, long, time ago.
Lastly, what kind of beating do you think some of these women might receive after letting themselves being touched on by an infidel? Unfair? YES. Should it be happening? NO. Will it happen anyway? YES. Report it if you see signs of abuse, but don't be the damn cause of it.
Our motto as SF Medics:
Primum non nocere
Richard :munchin
Were the medical instructions for referal given to the male nurse medical in nature. Were there any medical considerations about ability involved or lack thereof.
Were the instructions based upon a religious/cultural bias.
Should religion/culture be a consideration in health care in a public clinic.
Orthodox Jews have the same religious rules regarding being touched by a non-related member of the opposite sex. I don't hear any outcry about that.
Disclaimer: I am not a rabbi, the following comes from some years of studying this area of Jewish law and personal experience.
Not when medicine is involved. While it may be preferable to have female nurse/doctor and one is usually requested, as far as I know, there is no where in Jewish law which states that medical care is to be denied if a female practitioner is not available. In fact, just the opposite is true, in Jewish law, a persons life trumps all except for three cardinal sins, and if a husband and/or male relative of said woman attempts to prevent necessary medical care from being administered, especially in a life or death situation, he could be considered a rodef(one who is actively attempting to wantonly take a life - all those witnessing are liable to stop him/her, up to and including deadly force). That said, there are individuals and/or groups/sects which take on questionable, if not completely wrong, strictures in this area, sometimes without consulting a competent authority in Jewish law. Without going into culture, upbringing etc., many Orthodox women may just be plain embarrassed in front of another male, and will chalk that up to religion, instead of just stating that she is uncomfortable, religion not withstanding.
On a side note, my wife's OB is a male, doesn't bother her or me for that matter; The fact that he has more experience that his entire practice(I think 6 OB/GYN in total) not withstanding ;)
Sparty On
11-28-2011, 20:42
The patient, as the consumer and the person who is in a vulnerable situation, has the right to request a doctor in accordance with their cultural and/or religious beliefs.
Having said that -- and unless I am missing something -- I didn't see any report of formal complaints raised by female patients in traditional garb - the complaint was by the supervising nurse, who also is expected to carry out orders written by the treating physician (unless felt to be harmful/erroneous). Perhaps the supervising nurse is forcing her beliefs on her female patients based upon assumptions made by how they dress. Is that not also inappropriate?
It would be interesting to see what would happen if a patient refused to be seen by a muslim physician, or a gay physician, or a black physician (or a gay black muslim physician), and the physician wanted recourse due to "descrimination".
Based on the article, my sense is that the supervising/managing RN was forcing her own personally conservative brand of Islam on the male RN & female patients.
Yes it's inappropriate however, because of the AO (Islamic strong-hold:eek:) they're working in; no one's going to say much...:munchin
Stay safe.
Dearborn is in my AO, and I personally wouldn't characterize Dearborn as an "islamic stronghold."
Most of the arabs in Dearborn are maronite Christians or druze that emigrated in the early/mid 20th century to work in the auto industry. Lots of Armenians came over after the genocide and to escape Turkish hegemony -- they're Christian, too. During the Lebanese civil war, even more came over and they brought their muslim friends with them. Lately, the majority of immigrants have been muslim -- Iraqis escaping the war and Yemenis escaping the drought/famine/unrest.
The nurse was supposed to receive training during his education to prevent situations like that. It is part of his job description to be aware of a patient's culture and religion, and adjust his care in order not to conflict with them. Nursing students are also taught that some female patients may not speak out against a male health care provider even though it conflicts with their beliefs. It is the RN's job to be aware of all the facts in order to prevent patient discomfort.
Additionally, unless an MD is paying a nurse as an employee, or the health care facility's COC is specifically structured as such, he is not their boss. This is a common misconception with the general populace. The supervising nurse is. The MD makes diagnoses, assigns medications, and medical treatments for each patient. RNs are not MDs assistants, PAs are.
I think there is more than meets the eye about this story however. If the female patient DID consent to his care, or if it were an emergency situation, then he was in the right. 10,000 howling muslim men can't change that fact.
The nurse is supposed to be culturally competent as dictated by the area that they serve. As I said, the nurse received training in what to do in these situations, and received specific instruction from his supervisor that he was following happily up until he decided not to. When interacting with any female patient, I personally always ask them if I have the go ahead prior to touching them, especially if it involves sensitive areas. That includes white catholic women. And I sure as heck do not start grabbing on a woman wearing a hijab that lists their religion in the client record as islamic. I also don't let my left hand touch food that I'm feeding to a middle eastern immigrant regardless of their religion. It's called situational awareness.
The client's well being and comfort are top priorities for an RN. Giving meds and performing medical treatments are only one side of the coin. It is why the profession exists in the first place. It isn't about "cajones", because your own personal beliefs don't factor into the care you give, period. You are forced to care for rapists, and child molesters the same way you are accommodating for the wounded veteran two rooms away. If one can't handle that, they don't become a nurse. Simple as that.
Nurses can and do refuse to give medications. Why do you think they learn Pharmacology? Doctors make mistakes. It is ingrained in new nurses that they are personally responsible for everything that they do or don't do. That includes not doing anything harmful to the patient (Save for DNR orders, which the client or their POA signs off on), despite what the patient's MD says. Additionally MD's DO NOT dictate how RN's do their jobs. That garbage stopped a long, long, time ago.
Lastly, what kind of beating do you think some of these women might receive after letting themselves being touched on by an infidel? Unfair? YES. Should it be happening? NO. Will it happen anyway? YES. Report it if you see signs of abuse, but don't be the damn cause of it.
Great posts, SF0. I take it you're an RN?
Based on the article, my sense is that the supervising/managing RN was forcing her own personally conservative brand of Islam on the male RN & female patients.
As opposed to the more liberal, tolerant and peaceful Islam?
Dearborn is in my AO, and I personally wouldn't characterize Dearborn as an "islamic stronghold."
Most of the arabs in Dearborn are maronite Christians or druze that emigrated in the early/mid 20th century to work in the auto industry. Lots of Armenians came over after the genocide and to escape Turkish hegemony -- they're Christian, too. During the Lebanese civil war, even more came over and they brought their muslim friends with them. Lately, the majority of immigrants have been muslim -- Iraqis escaping the war and Yemenis escaping the drought/famine/unrest.
If the majority of Arabs in Dearborn are Christian or Druze, you would think the attendees at the annual Arab International Festival would be more tolerant of Christian preachers.
Christian Preacher Harassed and Bullied at 2011 Dearborn Arab Festival
Link (http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2011/07/christian-preacher-harassed-and-bullied.html)
Sparty On
11-28-2011, 23:30
As opposed to the more liberal, tolerant and peaceful Islam?
If the majority of Arabs in Dearborn are Christian or Druze, you would think the attendees at the annual Arab International Festival would be more tolerant of Christian preachers.
Good questions.
Yes, there are liberal, tolerant and peaceful muslims. I encounter them often.
I am a Christian and have never encountered a situation like the preacher in that video and neither have many of my Christian friends & colleagues. I surmise that having ongoing dialogue with my muslim friends & colleagues goes a long way towards fostering tolerance between the two groups.
That preacher was treated pretty badly, but an anti-islam Christian group showed up at the festival and started a fight. Tolerance goes both ways.
We had better start putting an end to this nonsense. Now.
Agreed. I think we are really going to be in trouble if we continue to let this new "cater to everyone" attitude take over this county.
Sometimes, people just need to be to told to shut up, put on their helmet and get on with life........or move.
Yes, there are liberal, tolerant and peaceful muslims. I encounter them often.
I wrote 'liberal, tolerant and peaceful Islam', not Muslims. We have heard this worn out apology for Islam before. I know 'liberal, tolerant and peaceful' Muslims, therefore Islam must be liberal, tolerant and peaceful.
I am a Christian and have never encountered a situation like the preacher in that video and neither have many of my Christian friends & colleagues. I surmise that having ongoing dialogue with my muslim friends & colleagues goes a long way towards fostering tolerance between the two groups.
So, when you have preached the gospel at the supposedly inclusive Arab International Festival in Dearborn you have not received a similar reaction from the crowd?
That preacher was treated pretty badly, but an anti-islam Christian group showed up at the festival and started a fight. Tolerance goes both ways.
I'm curious about this 'anti-islam Christian' group. Do you have any more information on this incident? If it is like the other incidents, all one has to do to 'start a fight' at the Arab International Festival is stand in one place and preach the gospel. The fight will come to you.
Sparty On
11-29-2011, 12:19
I wrote 'liberal, tolerant and peaceful Islam', not Muslims. We have heard this worn out apology for Islam before. I know 'liberal, tolerant and peaceful' Muslims, therefore Islam must be liberal, tolerant and peaceful. So, when you have preached the gospel at the supposedly inclusive Arab International Festival in Dearborn you have not received a similar reaction from the crowd?
In my mind, it goes like this: "I know liberal, tolerant, and peaceful muslims, therefore I judge them to be liberal, tolerant and peaceful muslims." I don't ascribe the liberal/tolerant/peaceful tag to all muslims, though. Doing that would be naive.
I judge people on their individual merits, not whatever group(s) they belong to. For example, I know some really dumb Marines, but I don't conclude that all marines are dumb. There's a word for this, but it escapes me right now.
I'm curious about this 'anti-islam Christian' group. Do you have any more information on this incident? If it is like the other incidents, all one has to do to 'start a fight' at the Arab International Festival is stand in one place and preach the gospel. The fight will come to you.
It was reported by my local news station at the time.
YouTube spits out a bunch of videos if you enter "arab american festival 2011 dearborn" in the search box. I'm not wild about YouTube because you never know if the videos have been edited and if so, how they've been edited.
I will say this though: The festival is just like any summer street carnival in Anytown, USA. There's rides, food/drink, games, arts & crafts, live music, and the occasional fight. The only difference is that this one is in the middle of an arabic neighborhood post-9/11 and it was more peaceful than the 2010 carnival in Westland, where some loser shot a guy in the leg over a spilt corndog.
PedOncoDoc
11-29-2011, 15:43
I will say this though: The festival is just like any summer street carnival in Anytown, USA. There's rides, food/drink, games, arts & crafts, live music, and the occasional fight. The only difference is that this one is in the middle of an arabic neighborhood post-9/11 and it was more peaceful than the 2010 carnival in Westland, where some loser shot a guy in the leg over a spilt corndog.
Do they serve chocolate covered bacon at the festival?
Agreed. I think we are really going to be in trouble if we continue to let this new "cater to everyone" attitude take over this county.
Sometimes, people just need to be to told to shut up, put on their helmet and get on with life........or move.
Very well said. Simple, straightforward, and to the point. After reading this thread with interest, it seems this is a very good solution to the problem.
(And, if moving, do take some choclate covered bacon with you, it is damn good!):munchin
Holly
Sparty On
11-30-2011, 15:11
Do they serve chocolate covered bacon at the festival?
Before or after tossing the pigskin? :confused:
PedOncoDoc
11-30-2011, 15:22
Before or after tossing the pigskin? :confused:
My comment was only half-joking. There are plenty of examples mentioned in other threads on this forum and in news articles from around the world where incidents have occurred due to the intolerance of the presence of pork by mulsims (yes, I know not every muslim is vehement on this topic).
It there was chocolate-covered bacon (or other popular pork products from typical event vendors) at the festival, perhaps this was: just like any summer street carnival in Anytown, USA
If pork was not offered as a food option (or unofficially disallowed) I would have to strongly disagree.
Sparty On
11-30-2011, 16:20
My comment was only half-joking. There are plenty of examples mentioned in other threads on this forum and in news articles from around the world where incidents have occurred due to the intolerance of the presence of pork by mulsims (yes, I know not every muslim is a vehement on this topic).
It there was chocolate-covered bacon (or other popular pork products from typical event vendors) at the festival, perhaps this was:
If pork was not offered as a food option (or unofficially disallowed) I would have to strongly disagree.
I agree with you -- mine was tongue-in-cheek as well. Drive a few miles and you're picking up a Christmas ham for the best holiday in the world. No big deal.
Note that I'm speaking of Dearborn specifically in this thread. Not the world at large because my experience is local, not international. My opinions only, subject to change.
PedOncoDoc
11-30-2011, 16:40
I agree with you -- mine was tongue-in-cheek as well. Drive a few miles and you're picking up a Christmas ham for the best holiday in the world. No big deal.
Note that I'm speaking of Dearborn specifically in this thread. Not the world at large because my experience is local, not international. My opinions only, subject to change.
I have several patients come through my AO from Dearborn as well - I've seen the whole gamut of religious/cultural practices in muslim women from outspoken matriarchs who are also high-level professionals to women covered from head to toe who won't speak to me.
I think you underestimated the muslim population in Dearborn in your earlier posts. Dearborn has the largest arab muslim population in North America - over 30,000 people and roughly 1/3 of the Dearobrn population (just under 100,000 people). A majority come from Lebanon, Yemen, and Iraq (including many Iraqi refugees). Dearborn has the Islamic Center of America - the largest mosque in the US.
Cowboy 1968
11-30-2011, 21:45
But did she say no? And in all hospitals and medical centers I have been in, the Dr.'s orders override all other orders from another nurse or nursing supervisor. In these cases, the Dr.'s order is law.
alright4u
11-30-2011, 22:06
Now if any gal wears this "He job" named bubba on or close to her arm, the bubbas I saw were good size. I think Bubba can be the "He job." I just want my cat and wife to snuggle up with. I ain't playing with bubba or his "he job" duties.
Just a smile.
In my mind, it goes like this: "I know liberal, tolerant, and peaceful muslims, therefore I judge them to be liberal, tolerant and peaceful muslims." I don't ascribe the liberal/tolerant/peaceful tag to all muslims, though. Doing that would be naive.
I judge people on their individual merits, not whatever group(s) they belong to. For example, I know some really dumb Marines, but I don't conclude that all marines are dumb. There's a word for this, but it escapes me right now.
If you study Islam a little as I did for the 6 months I had an Iraqi Sunni instructor who daily extrapolated on the pure awesomeness of Islam, you will begin to see that there is no area in Islam that allows for one to be "liberal, tolerant, and peaceful". Non-believers will either convert to second class Muslims, pay the jizzya, or die. Period end of conversation. Interpreting the Quran in any way other than what you can read on paper, death to you. Translating the Quran to a language other than Quranic Arabic, death to you. It is not and never will be a peaceful religion. The people that call themselves peaceful Muslims are in fact Kafir and should be treated according to the Quran...DEATH. Lovely beautiful religion idnt it?
As for the Marine example...yes, most Marines are stupid. :p
DB