View Full Version : Firearm Transfers Legalities
kcphoenix
09-29-2011, 19:50
Gentlemen: I could use your assistance please in helping sort out a legal issue involving the transfer of firearms.
This would be regarding the Commonwealth of Virginia as well as Federal Laws. It seems somewhat ambiguous as to term "resident." Could you given me what your view of that term is as a member of LEO or firearms professionals, personal opinion, etc?
RE: Person A, for the past six years [and continues to,] has lived in Virginia, works in Virginia, purchased a house in VA...HOWEVER; this same person maintains a Florida drivers license, Flordia registration on all vehicles and is registered to vote in Florida. [NOT military]
Would this person be a resident of Virginia or Florida with respect to obtaining a firearm?
Is proof of residency for firearms the same as the residency laws for taxation, meaning same requirements apply to prove residency?
Also, do the same laws apply to a firearms transaction if someone gifts a handgun to another person as they do when obtaining through a dealer?
I'd appreciate any insight you might share. Thanks much in advance!
This link may help answer a few of your questions: Scroll down to "Identification and Residency Requirements" and read through those paragraphs. ;)
CLICK ME (http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_VFTP.shtm)
kcphoenix
09-29-2011, 20:28
Thanks alekls! So does this apply to exchanges between private parties also or just dealer sales. Also, does AFT trump VA law or VA trump ATF law in this case? So many pieces to my puzzle and no place that provides ALL the answers in one to make it easy! ;)
trump probably isn't the correct term, what I'm trying to decifer on this one is if the ATF laws apply to everyone in the USA and then each state can add more laws to that that have to be followed within that state?
Thanks alekls! So does this apply to exchanges between private parties also or just dealer sales. Also, does AFT trump VA law or VA trump ATF law in this case? So many pieces to my puzzle and no place that provides ALL the answers in one to make it easy! ;)
trump probably isn't the correct term, what I'm trying to decifer on this one is if the ATF laws apply to everyone in the USA and then each state can add more laws to that that have to be followed within that state?
Your best bet would be to contact a gun dealer in VA to get the correct answers and personally I'd talk to a few of them to make sure they give you the same answers. They deal with this stuff on a daily basis and should know the correct answers.
Hope this helps.
Snaquebite
09-29-2011, 22:00
I would consider going to the county sheriffs office where the transaction will take place. Sheriffs offices tend to have their own interpretation of the laws.
Utah Bob
09-29-2011, 22:07
Without knowing exactly what the situation is I can only say that I would not do a private firearms sale to a person who did not have a valid id from my state.
BATFE can tell you the specifics on private sales.
Without knowing exactly what the situation is I can only say that I would not do a private firearms sale to a person who did not have a valid id from my state.
BATFE can tell you the specifics on private sales.
Bingo,, The safest approach is to have the transaction happen at the your favorite LGS. Even if this is a rifle. Ask you LGS to bless the transaction. He will know all local, state, & Federal laws covering ID for the purchase.
You may want to contact the LGS ahead to see how they want to do ID's.
They will, in the case of a pistol insist on doing formal ATF paper work & ID check.
Push all associated costs on the purchaser.
If the LGS say no-go, walk away from the transaction..
Is the case of GIFT firearms,, The only way to handle one is to give a gift certificate and have the recipient do the purchase via the LGS.
This type of transaction is not unlike what fast and furious was about. The ATF runs this game all the time trying to nail uninformed joe smuck..
:munchin
States can increase the requirements established by Federal law.
kcphoenix
09-30-2011, 08:46
Thank you all for your help.
For full disclosure, this is a legal case I am involved in where this individual is in possession of my weapons (approx $30k worth) refusing to return them saying I gave all of them to him as gifts. This person was my closest friend and owns a townhouse in VA, yet keeps the DL, reg, voter reg, etc all in FL to avoid paying taxes (even though his employer, a three letter intel agency has ordered him to do so on more than one occasion)
I was/am a resident of VA and purchased the weapons from an FFL and was renting so I purchased a safe that I put at his house and obviously kept my weapons in. Now, long story short, new woman in his life, jealous or insecure, friendship ended by him for her.
Weapons include M40A3, Kimber Warrior, Wilson Combat, Browning Hi-Power CIA custom (limited edition), HK 91, FN SCAR, Kimber Tactical, Sig P239, FN FiveseveN and a couple others. The FFL I bought them all from says legally he's a FL resident and it is illegal for him to have the firearms, even as a gift. PWC PD says it's a civil matter. (they aren't addressing the reidency status)
What would you suggest? Which laws would this fall under? How would you handle the situation?
Federal Civil Court (interstate jurisdiction).
Make sure your attorney can appear in Federal Court.
craigepo
09-30-2011, 12:58
A. This should be done in Florida, as this is where your stuff is, where the deal went awry, and where a court order will have to be sent to a sheriff to enforce a judgment.
B. It will be done in state court, as the amount in controversy for a federal civil case is a minimum of $75,000 (diversity jurisdiction).
C. You will have to hire an attorney in Florida, preferably in the county where the guns are located. If memory serves me correctly, this is a tort case, which will be based upon a cause of action called "conversion". Damages for conversion are, in many jurisdictions, either return of the property or the fair market value thereof.
D. The burden of proof to prove a gift is higher than in a regular civil case.
kcphoenix
09-30-2011, 13:36
A. This should be done in Florida, as this is where your stuff is, where the deal went awry, and where a court order will have to be sent to a sheriff to enforce a judgment.
B. It will be done in state court, as the amount in controversy for a federal civil case is a minimum of $75,000 (diversity jurisdiction).
Sir,
All of this occurred in Virginia, where I am a resident, I purchased the firearms, where he owns a home & works, and where the safe with the firearms are located. The FL part of this puzzle is he continues to maintain his FL drivers license, FL voter ID and all vehicle registrations (hence trying to decipher which is his state of residence). Would your advice in response one still hold true for the Commonwealth of Virginia? Secondly, could you explain diversity jurisdiction if it would still apply in this case?
I truly thank you all for sharing your knowledge and suggestions with me.
Paragrouper
09-30-2011, 14:17
Sir,
All of this occurred in Virginia, where I am a resident, I purchased the firearms, where he owns a home & works, and where the safe with the firearms are located. The FL part of this puzzle is he continues to maintain his FL drivers license, FL voter ID and all vehicle registrations (hence trying to decipher which is his state of residence). Would your advice in response one still hold true for the Commonwealth of Virginia? Secondly, could you explain diversity jurisdiction if it would still apply in this case?
I truly thank you all for sharing your knowledge and suggestions with me.
He may have an issue with residency, as most States tend to frown upon a loss of revenue from someone who enjoys the benefits of living there. Any legal action you pursue may have other consequenses for your 'friend.'
As this event transpired in VA and the property is physically in VA, I would find a good lawyer local to the area. Good luck.
Martinjmpr
09-30-2011, 14:31
KCPhoenix: The legalities of him owning firearms are between him and whatever entity tries to prosecute him (if any.)
Your issue is simply reclaiming your property, which he has improperly converted to his own use ("Conversion" being the civil equivalent of theft.)
Therefore: Sue him in civil court in the district in which he resides. You will probably have to hire a process server. Given the amount of the property involved, you probably won't be able to do it in small claims court although you should check (here in CO I beleive the maximum amount in question has to be under $7500.)
Given the facts I would say consult a reputable lawyer in your area, the lawyer will be able to tell you how much it's likely to cost you and how likely you are to prevail. Expect to have to show proof that you purchased or owned the firearms in question. Remember that the burden of proof is on you as the plaintiff.
kcphoenix
09-30-2011, 19:07
Gentlemen, you have been extremely helpful, thank you very much!
WOW! This turned out to be something totally different than I was expecting. GREAT advice given now go find a good lawyer and good luck. :lifter
kcphoenix
09-30-2011, 21:42
WOW! This turned out to be something totally different than I was expecting.
a chick with a personal weapons cache :D
thank you!!!
a chick with a personal weapons cache :D
thank you!!!
The PERFECT SOUL MATE! :D
kcphoenix
09-30-2011, 22:44
The PERFECT SOUL MATE! :D
you should see what's inside the safe at my MO ranch! ;)
btw, I learned when flying from MO to VA with my M40A3 a couple years back....when asked by TSA what that weapon is used for, do not answer 'killing the enemy'...because although it is the truth, it could result in being detained and missing your flight..:p
[don't think they would have believed it was for squirrel hunting lol]