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52bravo
09-13-2004, 11:06
what size IV bags do you use 500 cc or 1000 cc?
the reason is that som in the danish army says that ther is a nato standart, that only 1000 cc is to be use.

but do you get 500 cc or 1000 cc from army, air force or navy?.

i never heard about nato standart, but one NCO toll my about, and gave it as the reason for not to use 500 cc bags. the reason that i like 2x500 cc better is also the danish set up. we only have 1000cc bag. so 2 times 500c give my 2 times of uses.

Frank

Team Sergeant
09-13-2004, 11:31
Hey, your English is getting better!

When I was in all we carried was the 1000cc bags. Every man on the team carried at least one (with infusion kit) and knew how to use it. Besides, the 1000cc bag makes a good little pillow.

TS

52bravo
09-13-2004, 11:54
Hey, your English is getting better!

TS

thanks

Frank

glenyork
09-18-2004, 10:12
First ask what are you using crystalloid fluids for...today the current philosophy is to only give fluids for bleeding with shock if the casualty has a blood pressure below 80 systolic or unconsciousness from bleeding out. This is because at this B/P he is not perfusing his brain with oxygen. If you give fluids above this B/P then all you will do is blow out blood clots and help the guy to bleed out. Instead of only carrying crystalloids, also carry hetastarch (Hextend , or an equivalent volume expander), which is a colloid and will stay in the vascular system longer and it will "expand" the blood volume. One 500cc bag of hetastarch is equal to 3 1000cc bags of crystalloid fluid.

So, back to fluids. There is still a need for crystalloids and that is dehydration and burns. We use a fluid replacement for burns at 2 to 4 ml per kg x percent burn give on half over first 8 hours from time of burn and the second one half over the next 16 hours for a starter and measure urine output.

Back to your question...500 or 1000cc, it does not matter and it is just a preference. Since I am treating burns and dehydration I will carry 1000cc bags as with even a min burn it takes a lot of fluid, example = a 70kg pt with 10% burn x 4ml will equal 2800 cc of fluid and one half will be 1400 given the first 8 hours. I spread the carrying of the fluids over the whole team as one man can not carry the load. Next question is how long will it take to extract.

Good luck, probably more than you wanted to know. If you have any more questions or if I need to clarify any point further please feel free to contact me....

glenyork (docyork) out...

"All bleeding will stop eventually"

Eagle5US
09-18-2004, 15:26
First ask what are you using crystalloid fluids for...today the current philosophy is to only give fluids for bleeding with shock if the casualty has a blood pressure below 80 systolic or unconsciousness from bleeding out. This is because at this B/P he is not perfusing his brain with oxygen. If you give fluids above this B/P then all you will do is blow out blood clots and help the guy to bleed out. Instead of only carrying crystalloids, also carry hetastarch (Hextend , or an equivalent volume expander), which is a colloid and will stay in the vascular system longer and it will "expand" the blood volume. One 500cc bag of hetastarch is equal to 3 1000cc bags of crystalloid fluid.

So, back to fluids. There is still a need for crystalloids and that is dehydration and burns. We use a fluid replacement for burns at 2 to 4 ml per kg x percent burn give on half over first 8 hours from time of burn and the second one half over the next 16 hours for a starter and measure urine output.

Back to your question...500 or 1000cc, it does not matter and it is just a preference. Since I am treating burns and dehydration I will carry 1000cc bags as with even a min burn it takes a lot of fluid, example = a 70kg pt with 10% burn x 4ml will equal 2800 cc of fluid and one half will be 1400 given the first 8 hours. I spread the carrying of the fluids over the whole team as one man can not carry the load. Next question is how long will it take to extract.

Good luck, probably more than you wanted to know. If you have any more questions or if I need to clarify any point further please feel free to contact me....

glenyork (docyork) out...

"All bleeding will stop eventually"

Hola Mr. glenyork,
Thanks for participating in the medical forum...as a courtesy:
PLEASE FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE
so we have an idea of who you are, what your level of training is and the type of background you are giving your advice or experience from.
There is a wide variety of experience levels wihtin these boards, Trauma Surgeons, Anesthetists, Dentists, down to the buddy aid bubba.
Your statements regarding standards for trauma IV therapy may be fine for your current area of expertise or work, but if a battlefield injury comes to my BAS or Forward Trauma Team without a lifeline, it had better be because there wasn't even a piece of bamboo for that medic to sharpen and use as a needle. And with a systolic of 80 or less...decompensation is already well under way.

Welcome to PS.com

NousDefionsDoc
09-18-2004, 15:40
glenyork,
First of all, welcome to PS.com. Secondly, are you a doctor, medic, PA? Or the local plumber? A truck driver perhaps? As my Brother The Eagle so aptly pointed out, you were asked nicely in all thos little pesky stickers to fill out your profile. We even told you why.

We welcome your contributions provided you heed instructions and and speak from training and experience.

Sacamuelas
09-18-2004, 22:00
I can only add that you may PM the information concerning your credentials to either NDD, Eagle, SwatSurgeon, or myself is you have a legit reason for privacy.

If it is SF specific, I recommend NDD, Eagle, or any Admin. You need not list your current unit or location in your profile, but your professional training background and experience level would be sufficient and appreciated by all reading your posts.

Ditto the Welcome.