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kletzenklueffer
09-01-2011, 13:52
I'm curious about how SF goes about staying warm and dry when on a mission, or even just out hunting.

To lay some foundation for the direction of my question I want to relay an incident that occured recently.

My son and I were camping just north of Camp Frank Merrill (Rangers for those that didn't go thru there) in NE Georgia. The Rangers were doing some amush training and such and we were camping a mile north of them. A group of instructors were just up the hill from us and I talked to them about my son and I shooting at our camp. I wanted to find out when they'd be wrapping up as I didn't want to cause any issues with other gunfire while they were doing their thing. He said that the guys in training would be coming along in about :15 and that he'd appreciate it if we gave them :30 to clear the area, so we waited :45 just to be safe. So we did our shooting, had dinner and got in the tent to sleep around 10pm. At 11:45 I work up hearing someone walking right by the tent. I was groggy, but it was either two guys walking by, or one walked past and then came back by again. I sat up quietly, clicked on my night vision and unzipped the tent and scoped the area and saw no one. I might have been 30 seconds from the time I woke up til I unzipped the tent, and that's an eternity at night, on foot. So I didn't sleep worth a crap that night. (Now that I think about it, maybe that's where my REI french press coffee cup went missing!).

At first I thought it might have been some Rangers doing some night navigation, but I talked to a Ranger buddy and he said they never trained only a couple guys at a time, that it's either all or none.

so whether it was someone that came down the road, saw our tent and bugged out, or someone looking for free stuff, I decided I ddn't want to sleep in a tent anymore.

So I've been working on a lean to setup that is light to carry, fits in my backpack and can provide some elemental protection. This particular night was 67 degrees, but I much prefer to camp while hunting when it's in the 20's or thereabout. So I have considered pup type tents, lean to's, or just a ground sheet and open air. One thing I've decided on is to stay out of the middle of frequented campsites. I'd much rather sleep out of the way and if I wake to someone in the area, to have a chance of seeing them first, instead of being walked right up on top of. We'd have been screwed if it was a malicious type. There's just no fast way out of a tent and it offers no protection except from bugs.

So I'm interested in ideas on how this issue can be avoided while still staying warm enough and dry enough to enjoy the trip.

You guys got anything?

adal
09-01-2011, 14:06
I use a Thai hammock with a Thai bug net. Aussie tarp over the top if I think it'll be wet. I tie it low to the ground and tight. Nice thing about the Thai hammock is that you can put a sleeping pad in between the sheets to help with the cold. (Northern AZ can get chilly at night.)
I stopped using a tent years ago. But I also dont like sleeping on the ground if I can help it.
There are a few companies that sell hammock systems here in the states. I dont have personal experience with them, but they look like the Thai system I have. Good luck.

Pete
09-01-2011, 14:20
There is no "need" for a tent most of the time. Unless you're deep into some winter warfare FTX - or civilian equivalent - you can throw down and sleep anywhere.

Hammock or ground - personal preference. I use a hammock in the summer and thermarest on the ground after the first good freeze.

Looks like some kind of precip? Throw a small fly over your setup.

Most folks don't wander around in the woods after dark - any that do are usually on a trail. If camping in a wilderness area that allows dispersed camping make sure you get off the trail and are somewhat sheltered from view.

I like to go up in Uwharrie camping and hiking. I like to hit the trail early and just about every trip I go through somebody's camp where they stopped and set up right on the trail so at 0630 to 0700 here I come right through the middle of camp.

kletzenklueffer
09-01-2011, 14:43
Pete, we were truck camping in this instant and put up the tent right next to the truck. From now on, the sleeping are will be away from the truck when hunting and such.

I had looked into a couple different tarp set ups like the Siltarp and Noahs Tarp and such. I have a large tent that the poles are damaged on. I have been considering pilfering it to make a simple tarp out of the ripstop nylon. It would at least afford me some wind protection when it's real cold and some rain/wet snow protection. I've mainly been concerned with how to keep my sleeping bag dry when on the ground. I know about bivvys and have thought about getting one.

Jefe
09-01-2011, 15:15
String up a poncho with 550 cord about 3feet off the ground and make sure the hoods tied off. Put a foam pad on the ground and you can stay dry and have good SA/Camo.

Don't get the newer lightweight versions. Get the old style thats a smelly chunk of rubber as the new ones actually will let really hard rain go right thru them.

DISCLAIMER: New means the ones that came out in the 90s, maybe they have finally replaced them.

Golf1echo
09-01-2011, 17:07
I think you will find some useful things here http://stores.group1equipment.com/StoreFront.bok
You might be surprised how comfortable you can be just on a sleeping pad with liner.

Edit: "Late at night while your sleepin, those Rangers come a creepin all around...they come a creepin all around".

BMT (RIP)
09-01-2011, 17:08
3dGp. in '65 we were issued 2 poncho's.

BMT

JimP
09-01-2011, 17:19
Use a bivvy sack over the bag and you're good to hook. If it looks like rain - just string a Tarp/poncho over it. Snow? Don't worry about it. Spent four years on a cold-weather team. We'd kick a trench in the snow, toss your pad down and then curl up and let the snow blow over you, (waking up sucked but you couldn't be warmer).

The Reaper
09-01-2011, 19:15
I'm curious about how SF goes about staying warm and dry when on a mission, or even just out hunting.

To lay some foundation for the direction of my question I want to relay an incident that occured recently.

My son and I were camping just north of Camp Frank Merrill (Rangers for those that didn't go thru there) in NE Georgia. The Rangers were doing some amush training and such and we were camping a mile north of them. A group of instructors were just up the hill from us and I talked to them about my son and I shooting at our camp. I wanted to find out when they'd be wrapping up as I didn't want to cause any issues with other gunfire while they were doing their thing. He said that the guys in training would be coming along in about :15 and that he'd appreciate it if we gave them :30 to clear the area, so we waited :45 just to be safe. So we did our shooting, had dinner and got in the tent to sleep around 10pm. At 11:45 I work up hearing someone walking right by the tent. I was groggy, but it was either two guys walking by, or one walked past and then came back by again. I sat up quietly, clicked on my night vision and unzipped the tent and scoped the area and saw no one. I might have been 30 seconds from the time I woke up til I unzipped the tent, and that's an eternity at night, on foot. So I didn't sleep worth a crap that night. (Now that I think about it, maybe that's where my REI french press coffee cup went missing!).

At first I thought it might have been some Rangers doing some night navigation, but I talked to a Ranger buddy and he said they never trained only a couple guys at a time, that it's either all or none.

so whether it was someone that came down the road, saw our tent and bugged out, or someone looking for free stuff, I decided I ddn't want to sleep in a tent anymore.

So I've been working on a lean to setup that is light to carry, fits in my backpack and can provide some elemental protection. This particular night was 67 degrees, but I much prefer to camp while hunting when it's in the 20's or thereabout. So I have considered pup type tents, lean to's, or just a ground sheet and open air. One thing I've decided on is to stay out of the middle of frequented campsites. I'd much rather sleep out of the way and if I wake to someone in the area, to have a chance of seeing them first, instead of being walked right up on top of. We'd have been screwed if it was a malicious type. There's just no fast way out of a tent and it offers no protection except from bugs.

So I'm interested in ideas on how this issue can be avoided while still staying warm enough and dry enough to enjoy the trip.

You guys got anything?

50% security in the patrol base at all times, Ranger. :D

TR

kletzenklueffer
09-01-2011, 19:47
Golf1Echo- I was looking at the liners and shells on your site and like what I see. I want a cheap solution in the interim to see how it goes.

Jim P. and others, I'm off to find a older poncho. A buddy rigged a poncho and a tarp up on a fishing trip recently and it was good to go, and got me thinking more about being able to just unzip the bag and get up, or grab my rifle and have nothing between me and the "disturbance" but cool night air.

My son is 13, and it's time he realizes that the tent is providing a false sense of security- anything that wants to eat you can get in- and it's an obstacle to get out of in an emergency.

TR- I have been thinking about security. I think that I shouldn't have to consider perimeter security on a simple hunting trip, but then again, even the pigs around here are getting big and aggressive, so maybe some toe poppers and noise makers are in line. The other 50% isn't going to have a security rotation with me.

lindy
09-01-2011, 20:52
Wait a sec...when do you guys ever SLEEP? :D

Tress
09-01-2011, 21:17
There is always just sitting down next to a big tree, leaning against it and going to sleep. If it starts to rain just throw a poncho over yourself and you gear. But in reality it sucked.

Bivy sack most of the time, hammock sometimes, tent in the winter. These days I like my comfort. :D

Tress

Pete
09-02-2011, 04:41
Well, there is a difference between backing in your vehicle and throwing all your stuff out on the ground next to it and "ultra light" backpacking through a wilderness area.

Those are the two extremes - and there all levels of comfort in between.

It boils down to "What level of comfort do you want and can you carry it?"

Are you packing so much gear you can't enjoy the outdoors as you're trudging down the trail - or are you shivering at 0300 wishing you brought the second poncho liner?

And on the tent - there is only one way to put it up and most flies that come with them are cut in a dome to fit over it. A 10 x 8 tarp can be set up low for bad weather or high for sunny, hot weather. It can be tied to the outside of your pack and if a thunder storm comes along it can quickly be set up between two trees.

Tents are good for privacy in campgrounds and in very buggy areas. Other than that you go outdoors to see the outdoors.

wet dog
09-02-2011, 06:01
Well, there is a difference between backing in your vehicle and throwing all your stuff out on the ground next to it and "ultra light" backpacking through a wilderness area.

Those are the two extremes - and there all levels of comfort in between.

It boils down to "What level of comfort do you want and can you carry it?"

Are you packing so much gear you can't enjoy the outdoors as you're trudging down the trail - or are you shivering at 0300 wishing you brought the second poncho liner?

And on the tent - there is only one way to put it up and most flies that come with them are cut in a dome to fit over it. A 10 x 8 tarp can be set up low for bad weather or high for sunny, hot weather. It can be tied to the outside of your pack and if a thunder storm comes along it can quickly be set up between two trees.

Tents are good for privacy in campgrounds and in very buggy areas. Other than that you go outdoors to see the outdoors.

Yup, I like the way you think,....

Few years back, I got into Kayaking, (big open water), ocean lanes. The Seattle to Vancouver was a favorite and a kick in the pants fun thing to do. I (we), could only do small portions of it as time allowed, but paddling up (north), keeping land in view, carrying a bunch of gear, kind of like having a ruck sack full of cool stuff, (tent, stove, fuel, fishing gear, etc.). We'd paddle, stop when tired, fish, nap, make camp, paddle some more. Beach landing were always interesting, found many quiet locations, away from others, 4 days the norm.

Always had a pad, sleeping on sand is tough duty.

I'm into comfort these days, hard to call it camping.

greenberetTFS
09-02-2011, 07:10
3dGp. in '65 we were issued 2 poncho's.

BMT

Exactly,we were also issued poncho's when I went thru SFTG and it rained that night and we were all sock-en wet the next morning..........:boohoo My partner was a ranger and I thought he knew what he was doing,don't ever share with a ranger........... :rolleyes: De Oppresso Liber.................;)

Big Teddy :munchin

kletzenklueffer
09-02-2011, 07:21
Well, there is a difference between backing in your vehicle and throwing all your stuff out on the ground next to it and "ultra light" backpacking through a wilderness area.

Those are the two extremes - and there all levels of comfort in between.

It boils down to "What level of comfort do you want and can you carry it?"

Are you packing so much gear you can't enjoy the outdoors as you're trudging down the trail - or are you shivering at 0300 wishing you brought the second poncho liner?

And on the tent - there is only one way to put it up and most flies that come with them are cut in a dome to fit over it. A 10 x 8 tarp can be set up low for bad weather or high for sunny, hot weather. It can be tied to the outside of your pack and if a thunder storm comes along it can quickly be set up between two trees.

Tents are good for privacy in campgrounds and in very buggy areas. Other than that you go outdoors to see the outdoors.


Pete- when my son goes, it's usually out of the truck, we shoot some, and fish some. He's put together a decent backpack of his own, but he needs to reduce it's weight some. I talk to him about not carrying things you won't need- like a 0-15 degree sleeping bag when it's 80 degrees outside, that a poncho liner will do.

As far as my gear, I carry a water purifier, extra pants, t shirt and socks, a real lightweight sleeping bag (size of a 1/2 loaf of bread) and a woobie if it's getting below 30, a canteen, cup and stove, a 70 oz camelbak, simple foods (nuts, cranberries, a dehydrated meal or two) first aid, gps and compass, hikers tent and 8x10 camo tarp, knife, pistol, rifle, more ammo than I need, fleece jacket and layers if it's freezing. My pack weighs about 40 with water, food and tent.

I've been working to reduce my carrying weight, and while comfort is important, if I can't get to where I want to go, there's no point in going at all.

Dozer523
09-02-2011, 09:17
String up a poncho with 550 cord about 3feet off the ground and make sure the hoods tied off. Put a foam pad on the ground and you can stay dry and have good SA/Camo.

Don't get the newer lightweight versions. Get the old style thats a smelly chunk of rubber as the new ones actually will let really hard rain go right thru them.

DISCLAIMER: New means the ones that came out in the 90s, maybe they have finally replaced them. Second that, the new ones are a waste of space. And don't even think about the nylon one for a poncho raft.
Replace them? Replace a cruddy something that replaced something that worked real good? Not a chance. Oh well they did improve it . . .it now comes in ACU pattern. which makes crappy, sh!ty.

"So I got that goin' for me." Bill Murray

Jefe
09-02-2011, 10:17
LOL, I remember starting a sniper squad in the ARNG after I left Active Duty where we would be out in that nice November rain in the hills and I would be dry, warm and comfortable all night with my old man poncho and the young studs were tired, frozen and ready to get moving just to warm up!!

The other good piece of gear was the Rain Jacket made of the same stuff. You would die of heat stroke if you tried to move in it, but as one poster wrote, if you just lean up against the tree with your boonie cap on, it was a good rest.

I also think the Poncho Liner is the best piece of gear (maybe the sleeping shirt) ever issues. I still keep two of them and am not far removed from Linus and his blanket with them.

And Poncho Hootch or Poncho Villa depending on your AO. (Standing by for incoming on that joke)

kgoerz
09-02-2011, 15:14
I was in 7th Group. One time in Peru. The AC went out in the Hotel.

koz
09-02-2011, 15:25
For the lightest cover that actually works, take a look at the Kifaru ParaHootch -
http://www.kifaru.net/tarps_hootches.html - it's expensive but works really well.

While you're there, take a look at their Woobie or Doobie - https://kifaru.net/woobie.html
Also expensive but are pretty awesome.

Dusty
09-02-2011, 15:31
I was in 7th Group. One time in Peru. The AC went out in the Hotel.

:D:D

We had to sleep in the host unit's barracks one time in Venezuela, because of an ingratiating, kowtowing Team Leader who thought we'd be dissing the unit if we rented a house. No AC. Fans just don't cut it.

Many ice-cold Polars were drunk on that trip!

wet dog
09-02-2011, 15:31
I also think the Poncho Liner is the best piece of gear (maybe the sleeping shirt) ever issues.

Field Jacket liner used under BDU shirt. When not needed, the body portion was stuffed in it's own sleeve for pillow use.

Jefe
09-02-2011, 15:34
Hands down agree. Remember how some guys would sew Poncho Liner into the Rain Parka?

And the field jacket liner weights zero and a strong gust of wind will dry them out.

And OG 107s rather than the repeated line of failed uniforms since then.

Have a great holiday weekend! BBQing and actually stringing up a poncho hootch tonight outside a cabin up in the mountains!

lindy
09-02-2011, 16:35
Field Jacket liner used under BDU shirt. When not needed, the body portion was stuff in it's own sleeve for pillow use.

I'm taking that little gem with me to Benning this "winter".

wet dog
09-02-2011, 17:44
I'm taking that little gem with me to Benning this "winter".

Old tricks, new dogs.

I supervised a bunch of OCS/IOBC students, Ft. Benning, running them through a land nav course. I, the steely eyed SF/SSG, commanded one of several lanes/stations. Temp. dropped low enough to allow for warming fires. I got the word 2 hours prior, and had enough students asking, "Sergeant, can we light a fire?", but I was waiting on three more to arrive so I could call it in, "All present".

As we sat around camp, clip board in hand, I was comfortable sitting in a lounge chair while in the near distance, several sets of teeth chattered in the night.

When the last one arrived, we conducted our AAR, another hour passes. One soldier asked when finished, "Sergeant, are you not cold?"

"Nope."

"How are you remaining warm?".

"Field jacket liner, LT."

My next set of orders were, "Everyone, gather around......remove wet T-shirts, remove boots and socks. Time to warm up. Who can start a fire? Take care of feet, eat some chow, stay within 100m of this spot, do not wonder off. The time is now 2200hrs., we are here for the night. Trucks to pick us up will arrive at 0600hrs. Get some sleep, zero security tonight boys."

12 young soldiers were asleep within the hour, they earned it,....

I had fire duty. I opened a jar of sweet home canned peaches, and thought of next years Elk hunt back home.

Pete
09-03-2011, 12:32
This was cheap - used it last night up in Uwharrie. One heck of a thunderstorm at 2000.

Took a little effort to hold the one flap down and fill the canteens and water bottles.

I put a pointed stick through the eye on the flap and set the ruck on top of the end to weigh it down. The first big gust of wind flipped the flap up on top of the tarp taking the stick with it. The ruck toppled over into the rain so I had to drag it over to the far side, grab the flap and then start filling canteens and water bottles while holding the flap. All this while I was in the hammock.

After that - easy as pie.

Edited to add - camera settings. I took two pictures around 1945. The first was taken on the regular setting with flash. It was too dark to pick out any detail. I switched the setting to Landscape / Mountain and with the flash the picture came out lighter than it was at the time. So play with those extra settings.

wet dog
09-03-2011, 17:19
This was cheap - used it last night up in Uwharrie. One heck of a thunderstorm at 2000.

Took a little effort to hold the one flap down and fill the canteens and water bottles.

I put a pointed stick through the eye on the flap and set the ruck on top of the end to weigh it down. The first big gust of wind flipped the flap up on top of the tarp taking the stick with it. The ruck toppled over into the rain so I had to drag it over to the far side, grab the flap and then start filling canteens and water bottles while holding the flap. All this while I was in the hammock.

After that - easy as pie.

Another claymore bag for man-purse, awesome.

Golf1echo
09-05-2011, 04:14
Pete, Looks like a British DPM Basha overhead, have you attached a piece (perhaps ACU) along the one side? Interesting how you were collecting drinking water (nice thing about water proof tarps). Were you holding your containers, were they suspended or did you have the overhead rigged to divert the water into containers on the ground? Nice set up for the rain, some may not realize a hammock/overhead had better be bomb proof in heavy rain or.......:( I noticed your slap straps, very handy! Also your convenient head lamp placement.

Pete
09-05-2011, 04:46
Pete, Looks like a British DPM Basha overhead, have you attached a piece (perhaps ACU) along the one side? Interesting how you were collecting drinking water (nice thing about water proof tarps). Were you holding your containers, were they suspended or did you have the overhead rigged to divert the water into containers on the ground? Nice set up for the rain, some may not realize a hammock/overhead had better be bomb proof in heavy rain or.......:( I noticed your slap straps, very handy! Also your convenient head lamp placement.

The photo is somewhat an optical illusion. The hammock is Trek Light (rated to 400 lbs) and is 10' long. The main tarp is a 8' x 10' $6.00 plastic cover from the sports store at Fort Bragg set up diagonally. That works for just rain. With the storm coming I added an ACU pattern poncho over the ridge line to cover my feet area and it is hanging down over the hammock - comes just about to the middle.

It was raining so hard and the wind blowing so strong everything was jumping around. I just held a canteen cup along the edge of the tarp and it filled in a few seconds.

"Good enough" usually ain't. I was thinking of putting a little more effort into the shelter but decided I wasn't going to get hit very hard. Wrong! When it looked like I was going to get hammered I had time to throw on the poncho, snap the picture, drag the ruck under the hooch and get in the hammock. With all the lightning I was not going to put my feet on the ground.

The Reaper
09-05-2011, 11:54
Most of my time in the woods has been in a temperate/jungle environment.

My biggest concerns were staying dry, and keeping my blood for my own purposes.

Having said that, I like a jungle hammock, even set up on the ground.

Dry and keeps the bugs out, too. Not too bulky, but they are hard to find now days, especially the US versions.

If rain is expected, an Australian poncho/shelter goes over the top.

Having said that, I have slept wrapped in just a woobie or a poncho and a woobie, or just pased out on the ground with a ruck for a pillow.

If you are tired enough, you can sleep anywhere.

TR

wet dog
09-05-2011, 12:06
Having said that, I have slept wrapped in just a woobie or a poncho and a woobie, or just pased out on the ground with a ruck for a pillow.

If you are tired enough, you can sleep anywhere.

TR

Yes Sir, TR, when mission essential equipment comes before personal comforts, sometimes all you'll have will be mosquito netting over your face, and if your lucky, light weight gortex for rain gear.

More often than not, my radio was the wearer of my poncho(s), not me.

DinDinA-2
09-05-2011, 12:12
Pete- when my son goes, it's usually out of the truck, we shoot some, and fish some. He's put together a decent backpack of his own, but he needs to reduce it's weight some. I talk to him about not carrying things you won't need- like a 0-15 degree sleeping bag when it's 80 degrees outside, that a poncho liner will do.

As far as my gear, I carry a water purifier, extra pants, t shirt and socks, a real lightweight sleeping bag (size of a 1/2 loaf of bread) and a woobie if it's getting below 30, a canteen, cup and stove, a 70 oz camelbak, simple foods (nuts, cranberries, a dehydrated meal or two) first aid, gps and compass, hikers tent and 8x10 camo tarp, knife, pistol, rifle, more ammo than I need, fleece jacket and layers if it's freezing. My pack weighs about 40 with water, food and tent.

I've been working to reduce my carrying weight, and while comfort is important, if I can't get to where I want to go, there's no point in going at all.

While we are at it...on my compass lanyard is a police whistle and signal mirror. Do not forget tthe map and rite in rain pad w/pencil. I NEVER go in the field without those items.

booker
09-05-2011, 17:37
Some places that carry hammocks:

http://www.mosquitohammock.com/

http://www.junglehammock.com/models/northamerican/index.php

Golf1echo
09-06-2011, 10:05
Wet Dog nothing like kayaking, thaw / refreezing and Rain Forests to teach you the value of waterproof gear....and the liability of non waterproof gear.

TR That old WWII Jungle Hammock haunted me for years had one set up in the forest for about four years before someone liberated it. Below are a couple for you... The first weighs in at 2.75 lbs + pad and biners (if you use them) and both can do so much more.

The Reaper
09-06-2011, 19:09
Wet Dog nothing like kayaking, thaw / refreezing and Rain Forests to teach you the value of waterproof gear....and the liability of non waterproof gear.

TR That old WWII Jungle Hammock haunted me for years had one set up in the forest for about four years before someone liberated it. Below are a couple for you... The first weighs in at 2.75 lbs + pad and biners (if you use them) and both can do so much more.

Can either be set up on the ground like a bivy and staked out there?

TR

wet dog
09-06-2011, 21:20
Wet Dog nothing like kayaking, thaw / refreezing and Rain Forests to teach you the value of waterproof gear....and the liability of non waterproof gear.

TR That old WWII Jungle Hammock haunted me for years had one set up in the forest for about four years before someone liberated it. Below are a couple for you... The first weighs in at 2.75 lbs + pad and biners (if you use them) and both can do so much more.

Good to know.

Story: Spent several days, (7 to 10), in LA, wet, and in big reptile county. One night it was getting late and we were more then just tired, decided to call in a radio check, let the NET know we were putting it up for few hours of sleep. Call comes back, "Good night, sleep well".

Kept it easy, snap linked my ruck to a rope and hung it in a tree, 6 to 8 ft above the water line. Between to other Cyprus tree, my bedding. No sooner had the sun come up, team member comes walking by, sliding through the water waste deep. "Hey wet dog, get any sleep last night?"

"Sure,.....you?"

"Na, I've been up awhile, been out huntin."

"You need to be careful brother, there're big reptiles in here, big enough to eat you, or a snake that will kill you if bit."

"You mean like this one?" (Damn snake was 5 ft. long, and thick).

"Hungry?", he asks.

"Yeah!"

------BT---------

Note to self.....When visiting LA, bring a 18 Seriers trained Cajun.

Golf1echo
09-07-2011, 09:52
Can either be set up on the ground like a bivy and staked out there?

TR
The modular nature of the shelter pieces gives you the tools to make what you want. Seems I don't have an image of the Jungle Hammock Configuration on the ground (that is easily done though). The first image is the G1 Half Shell rigged as a hooch w/netting and pad (same as Jungle Hammock w/out Recon Shell). The second is a hammock configuration using G1 Solar Shell for a single point set up, lots of room for gear or others to squeeze into if necessary. We see 80f temps inside w/ exterior temps in the 20f's even on overcast days. The third are the larger G1 Multi Shells (shown in the second hammock pic above) set up in a quick beach shelter(60 second set up) during a nasty storm on the coast.

The premise of these designs is that the pieces should be the least they can be and yet durably do everything. Most folks do not understand the ingenuity of the SF Soldier and some have a hard time understanding these shelters. Thats OK, when you are inside one wrapped in your liners w/ a toasty G1 Thermal Radiator and snow and ice still on top of the shelter thermally masked in neg. temps, IJDM . Besides the other 50% can use pieces as wraps and covers ;)

PM w/ more info on configurations.

lonewolf726
09-09-2011, 07:43
For the lightest cover that actually works, take a look at the Kifaru ParaHootch -
http://www.kifaru.net/tarps_hootches.html - it's expensive but works really well.

While you're there, take a look at their Woobie or Doobie - https://kifaru.net/woobie.html
Also expensive but are pretty awesome.

I agree with Brother Koz on the Kifaru stuff...top quality kit, and pricey but worth every penny...you get what you pay for.

Team Sergeant
09-09-2011, 08:20
Most of my time in the woods has been in a temperate/jungle environment.

My biggest concerns were staying dry, and keeping my blood for my own purposes.

Having said that, I like a jungle hammock, even set up on the ground.

Dry and keeps the bugs out, too. Not too bulky, but they are hard to find now days, especially the US versions.

If rain is expected, an Australian poncho/shelter goes over the top.

Having said that, I have slept wrapped in just a woobie or a poncho and a woobie, or just pased out on the ground with a ruck for a pillow.

If you are tired enough, you can sleep anywhere.
TR

I can attest to the above statement..... (We could start a thread concerning all the places we've fallen asleep....)

Surgicalcric
09-09-2011, 08:50
G1E provided me with a couple samples for testing at the start of this trip but other than using/testing them during PMT they have stayed packed away due to mission change. However once this vacation is over I plan on spending some quality alone time in the mountains and will report back with a more detailed review.

That said, the design and construction is hands down the best I have seen. I have a Kifaru parahooch and doobie, several jungle hammocks and a couple other para shelters for comparison. G1E's shelter offers are light and versatile and the liner than is warmer than the Kifaru woobie/doobie.

If any of you guys are looking for something new I would seriously give G1E a change to fill your need.

Crip

Sapper124
09-17-2011, 16:43
Had a chance to check out G1E's products at the Maneuver Conference last week. After handling the liner and shell i was drooling and knew I needed to have one. Ill be setting some money aside to purchase these soon and hopefully get some use out of them backpacking; unfortunately, I doubt they will be on the packing list for any phase of the Q course :D

mark46th
09-20-2011, 17:57
TR-
I agree with the jungle hammock- A great piece of equipment. Now, I prefer Embassy Suites. Free breakfast and Happy Hour...

33army
10-03-2011, 10:10
I've been looking into a hammock system and came across Clark Jungle Hammocks. Wondering if anyone had used them before?

Pete
10-03-2011, 10:28
I've been looking into a hammock system and came across Clark Jungle Hammocks. Wondering if anyone had used them before?

Not used it but.....

Just looking at their site the hammocks appear to be pricey but are sold as a "system". Most others add things to the basic hammock price and you end up in a similar price range.

They have a 250 lb working load for the light hammock and 350 lbs for the other two. I like the larger loads. A lot of hammocks only advertise 250 lbs.

tonyz
10-03-2011, 10:55
I've been looking into a hammock system and came across Clark Jungle Hammocks. Wondering if anyone had used them before?

The forum located at the link below has information on various hammocks that may be of some help.

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/index.php

Buffalobob
10-22-2011, 14:44
I live in a tent about 25% of the year.

glebo
10-22-2011, 18:18
Man, i love them birch trees. Haven't seen any of them for awhile.....wish I could swap out these damn NC pines...:D

lksteve
10-22-2011, 19:30
Man, i love them birch trees. Those birch look a whole lot like aspen to me...

lksteve
10-22-2011, 19:36
There is no "need" for a tent most of the time. Unless you're deep into some winter warfare FTX - or civilian equivalent - you can throw down and sleep anywhere.
Tree pits are good in the winter...you may need a poncho overhead if you do any cooking as snow will melt and fall on your punkin...snow trenches work, if you're not planning to stay too long...

jsteiner
10-22-2011, 22:16
I agree with the old style poncho suggestion or a hammock in warm weather. I still keep both both handy. The hammock I routinely carry is the cargo netting hammock issued at 10th SFGA back in the 80s; both are light and go in my large Alice every trip (lots of camping with the Boy Scouts). The poncho is either a ground cloth or an instant mini-tarp or I throw it over the ruck if the ruck is left outside whatever else I am "in."

The hammock is quite comfortable at anything above 40 degrees - poncho liner or sleeping bag make it more comfortable...poncho overhead if it rains (it covers most of me and the gortex sleeping bag cover takes care of the rest).

I use the gortex sleeping bag cover (part of the sleeping bag system of bags the army has had for a while now) to keep me and my bag dry, regardless of what I am sleeping in, on or under. I generally use a lighter sleeping bag, inside the gortex cover, and simply stuff a poncho liner inside to make up the difference on colder nights.

At the other end of the spectrum, and something you and your son can enjoy for years to come, I now swear by the Kifaru 6-man tipi with woodstove. The tipi is 7 lbs; the stove is 4 lbs. The tipi offers 7' 6" head room, no floor, one single pole, line around the upper portion of the tipi to dry wet clothing, tent pegs around the bottom, plenty of space and two zipper doors on either end. It is an expensive toy, (new $1,500 with stove) but made of parachute material. The stove breaks down to about 10" x 14" x 2". And it packs up nicely.

3 seasons I leave the door flaps open (about 5' tall) and the screen unzipped at both ends for breeze and quick exfil as needed (when my 50% security goes to 0% or when my bladder says it is time to water a tree). Because a single tent peg anchors both sides of the screens, the screens just naturally hold together like they are velcroed in place. Leaving the flaps folded open gives you about a 3'-4' view out either end of the tipi.

Winter camping I close the flaps (quick large zippers), crank up that stove, anchor the tipi with deadmen anchors on top of the snow and get the tipi up to 75 degrees inside easily. Of course, you either feed the stove or 90 minutes after you cease work it is back to whatever winter temp you would be enjoying outside...it only takes 5 minutes to get it warming in the a.m....and you can cook on it! It really is the cadillac of winter camping. I found mine used on Craig's List for $800...a steal in my book (it was in Idaho and I am in New Hampshire). But if you find one, and can get it for a decent price (4 man option is great for 2 and gear inside; my 6 man will hold 4 and gear inside easily, even with stove) I encourage you to join the tipi world.

Good camping to you.

Jim Steiner
An Eagle Scout still young at heart

Quaker
08-08-2012, 17:39
When backpacking as a civilian I would just curl up in a small tarp. They are nice because you can use them for many different things, plus they can keep you dry and block wind. Those two things alone go a long way towards comfort. Throw in a small blanket and that should work for a decent range of conditions. Added bonus if you make a bed of leaves or something to keep the ground from sucking your warmth. +1 on the hammocks. I was just issued one however it has not been in use yet. I knew a lot of friends that preferred them to sleeping on the ground.