View Full Version : Guitar Frets: Environmental Enforcement Leaves Musicians in Fear
We give amnesty to illegals, guns to drug cartels, we can't secure our borders and we cannot purchase Raw Milk......You may have heard of Milk Police, now we have the Guitar Police.
Guitar Frets: Environmental Enforcement Leaves Musicians in Fear
By ERIC FELTEN
[FELDEN] The Commercial Appeal/Zuma Press
Agents from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service pore through the workshop at the Gibson Guitar factory on Wednesday morning.
Federal agents swooped in on Gibson Guitar Wednesday, raiding factories and offices in Memphis and Nashville, seizing several pallets of wood, electronic files and guitars. The Feds are keeping mum, but in a statement yesterday Gibson's chairman and CEO, Henry Juszkiewicz, defended his company's manufacturing policies, accusing the Justice Department of bullying the company. "The wood the government seized Wednesday is from a Forest Stewardship Council certified supplier," he said, suggesting the Feds are using the aggressive enforcement of overly broad laws to make the company cry uncle.
It isn't the first time that agents of the Fish and Wildlife Service have come knocking at the storied maker of such iconic instruments as the Les Paul electric guitar, the J-160E acoustic-electric John Lennon played, and essential jazz-boxes such as Charlie Christian's ES-150. In 2009 the Feds seized several guitars and pallets of wood from a Gibson factory, and both sides have been wrangling over the goods in a case with the delightful name "United States of America v. Ebony Wood in Various Forms."
The question in the first raid seemed to be whether Gibson had been buying illegally harvested hardwoods from protected forests, such as the Madagascar ebony that makes for such lovely fretboards. And if Gibson did knowingly import illegally harvested ebony from Madagascar, that wouldn't be a negligible offense. Peter Lowry, ebony and rosewood expert at the Missouri Botanical Garden, calls the Madagascar wood trade the "equivalent of Africa's blood diamonds." But with the new raid, the government seems to be questioning whether some wood sourced from India met every regulatory jot and tittle.
It isn't just Gibson that is sweating. Musicians who play vintage guitars and other instruments made of environmentally protected materials are worried the authorities may be coming for them next.
If you are the lucky owner of a 1920s Martin guitar, it may well be made, in part, of Brazilian rosewood. Cross an international border with an instrument made of that now-restricted wood, and you better have correct and complete documentation proving the age of the instrument. Otherwise, you could lose it to a zealous customs agent—not to mention face fines and prosecution.
John Thomas, a law professor at Quinnipiac University and a blues and ragtime guitarist, says "there's a lot of anxiety, and it's well justified." Once upon a time, he would have taken one of his vintage guitars on his travels. Now, "I don't go out of the country with a wooden guitar."
The tangled intersection of international laws is enforced through a thicket of paperwork. Recent revisions to 1900's Lacey Act require that anyone crossing the U.S. border declare every bit of flora or fauna being brought into the country. One is under "strict liability" to fill out the paperwork—and without any mistakes.
It's not enough to know that the body of your old guitar is made of spruce and maple: What's the bridge made of? If it's ebony, do you have the paperwork to show when and where that wood was harvested and when and where it was made into a bridge? Is the nut holding the strings at the guitar's headstock bone, or could it be ivory? "Even if you have no knowledge—despite Herculean efforts to obtain it—that some piece of your guitar, no matter how small, was obtained illegally, you lose your guitar forever," Prof. Thomas has written. "Oh, and you'll be fined $250 for that false (or missing) information in your Lacey Act Import Declaration."
Consider the recent experience of Pascal Vieillard, whose Atlanta-area company, A-440 Pianos, imported several antique Bösendorfers. Mr. Vieillard asked officials at the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species how to fill out the correct paperwork—which simply encouraged them to alert U.S. Customs to give his shipment added scrutiny.
There was never any question that the instruments were old enough to have grandfathered ivory keys. But Mr. Vieillard didn't have his paperwork straight when two-dozen federal agents came calling.
Facing criminal charges that might have put him in prison for years, Mr. Vieillard pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor count of violating the Lacey Act, and was handed a $17,500 fine and three years probation.
Given the risks, why don't musicians just settle for the safety of carbon fiber? Some do—when concert pianist Jeffrey Sharkey moved to England two decades ago, he had Steinway replace the ivories on his piano with plastic.
Still, musicians cling to the old materials. Last year, Dick Boak, director of artist relations for C.F. Martin & Co., complained to Mother Nature News about the difficulty of getting elite guitarists to switch to instruments made from sustainable materials. "Surprisingly, musicians, who represent some of the most savvy, ecologically minded people around, are resistant to anything about changing the tone of their guitars," he said.
You could mark that up to hypocrisy—artsy do-gooders only too eager to tell others what kind of light bulbs they have to buy won't make sacrifices when it comes to their own passions. Then again, maybe it isn't hypocrisy to recognize that art makes claims significant enough to compete with environmentalists' agendas.
—Write to me at EricFelten@WSJPostmodern.com.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904787404576530520471223268.html
We give amnesty to illegals, guns to drug cartels, we can't secure our borders and we cannot purchase Raw Milk......You may have heard of Milk Police, now we have the Guitar Police.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904787404576530520471223268.html
You may have heard of campylobacter, salmonella, E. coli and listeria (not an all-inclusive list of the pathogens that can naturally contaminate raw milk)? ;)
There are numerous laws being passed and enforced which we are subject to without recourse; such as the incandescent light bulb edict which make it a crime to sell or manufacture in the very near future. I wonder what Edison would have said...
Here is a link to that insanity along with an engaging discussion on liberty, "The two Concepts of Liberty", by Isaiah Berlin 1958
“But I do mean that to understand such movements or conflicts is, above
all, to understand the ideas or attitudes to life involved in them, which alone make such movements a part of human history, and not mere natural events. Political words and notions and acts are not intelligible save in the context of the issues that divide the men who use them. Consequently ourown attitudes and activities are likely to remain obscure to us, unless we understand the dominant issues of our own world. The greatest of these is the open war that is being fought between two systems of ideas which return different and conflicting answers to what has long been the central question of politics - the question of obedience and coercion. 'Why should I (or anyone) obey anyone else?' 'Why should I not live as I like?' 'Must I obey?' 'If I disobey, may I be coerced?' 'By whom, and to what degree, and in the name of what, and for the sake of what?' “
http://www.sure-start.com/incandescent-light-bulb-sales-illegal-in-7-months/3674973/
Two concepts of liberty
http://www.wiso.uni-hamburg.de/fileadmin/wiso_vwl/johannes/Ankuendigungen/Berlin_twoconceptsofliberty.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Concepts_of_Liberty
Red Flag 1
08-26-2011, 09:47
Tone woods are becoming an interesting topic among luthiers lately. Rosewood from Brazil has been embargoed since 1965. Luthiers have been hoarding this stuff for decades and just charging more and more over the years. Other tone woods for backs and sides are being used with mixed reviews. This is the first time I have heard of the feds going after luthiers like this. If this is true, and continues, the feds will put a lot of small business luthiers out of work, and perhaps even in to courts nationwide. Just what our economy needs, more folks out of work, and another industry in trouble. I have two instruments with Brazillian Rosewood, guess I'll call my attorney............ :mad::mad::mad:
RF 1
You may have heard of campylobacter, salmonella, E. coli and listeria (not an all-inclusive list of the pathogens that can naturally contaminate raw milk)? ;)
I am aware of the potential dangers and personally I have always favored pasteurized milk.
Regardless of the potential risks if people want to pay money for raw milk, the Government has no business stopping the purchase or performing forced incursions to destroy private property. This isn't a crack house we're dealing with
I am betting that the number of deaths and injuries related to the purchase of unpasteurized dairy products is far less that of Operations Fast & Furious, vehicular homicides performed by Illegal Aliens and so-called "Safe' food that is USDA inspected, yet tainted with salmonella (and other pathogens) and distributed far and wide throughout the country.
And don't forget China....milk and baby formula tainted with melamine, lead in toys, tainted dog food. So it it is probably a far guess to say that if Gibson produces their guitars in China this would be a non-issue.
And then there is the wasted expense of tax dollars for these follies.
:D:D:D
.... I have two instruments with Brazillian Rosewood, guess I'll call my attorney....
+1 here, I have an Ibanez SA series with a Brazilian Rosewood fretboard...
+1 here, I have an Ibanez SA series with a Brazilian Rosewood fretboard...
Don't have the link handy but in my web cruising during the evening I found a story where the company in question has some competition from another company using the same old wood.
The other company's owner is a big "D" donor - and didn't get raided.
Hmmmm, I ain't saying but.................
Don't have the link handy but in my web cruising during the evening I found a story where the company in question has some competition from another company using the same old wood.
The other company's owner is a big "D" donor - and didn't get raided.
Hmmmm, I ain't saying but.................
Be careful what you say-the next, NEXT racists will be tonewood users...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/26/feds-environmental-enforcement-on-guitars-leaves-musicians-in-fear/Be careful what you say-the next, NEXT racists will be tonewood users...
Actually, Al Gore has already identified the next racist as those who disagree with global warming:
http://dailycaller.com/2011/08/28/gore-global-warming-skeptics-are-this-generations-racists/
But that's for another post......;)
Otherwise, Luthiers are certainly suspect and musicians well, we've always been suspect.....:D
Perhaps I should burn my Takamine and Gibson Guitars?
I heard an interview with the Gibson CEO who pointed out the Gibson Company had already been raided previous to this one over other trumped up issues. This one though is not based on any violation of Indian, or US laws. These jackasses are making the justification for this up.....:(
Incredible (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/26/feds-environmental-enforcement-on-guitars-leaves-musicians-in-fear/)
What's next from these scumbags......:munchin
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/26/feds-environmental-enforcement-on-guitars-leaves-musicians-in-fear/
Actually, Al Gore has already identified the next racist as those who disagree with global warming:
http://dailycaller.com/2011/08/28/gore-global-warming-skeptics-are-this-generations-racists/
But that's for another post......;)
:confused: To what other reference could I have been alluding? That's why I said "next, NEXT...", Bro.
Relating to the exotic woods, there is a local company here making guitars with a synthetic alternative material: http://www.flaxwood.com/support/faq/
:confused: To what other reference could I have been alluding? That's why I said "next, NEXT...", Bro.
I saw no specific indication that you were refering to that story in this post, or a previous one. Of course, since those of us who don't toe the line are all racist regarding so many issues....It could have been for many different causes being embraced by this government.
dadof18x'er
08-29-2011, 07:11
as usual if you scratch the surface of every story you find something like this underneath...........
http://tpnnews.com/2011/08/28/is-the-obama-regime-politicizing-the-music-business/
I saw no specific indication that you were refering to that story in this post, or a previous one. Of course, since those of us who don't toe the line are all racist regarding so many issues....It could have been for many different causes being embraced by this government.
:D:D:D
Relating to the exotic woods, there is a local company here making guitars with a synthetic alternative material: http://www.flaxwood.com/support/faq/
Nice guitars. Although, with a synthetic material, a $2k pricetag will make it difficult to make in-roads into the American music scene.
All of the hype over tonewoods is, IMO, ridiculous. Mahogany bodies with AAAAAAAAAAA quilted maple caps do MUCH LESS in providing the guitars tone and sustain than a solid neck joint and quality pickups. Plus, in a world of modelling, people are getting the "LP thru Marshall" sound with instruments costing much much less.
In instrucments like violins and upright basses, I can understand the desire for a pure, familiar, tone.
If you can stand the guy's arrogance and bravado, check out http://www.zacharyguitars.com/
He made a guitar out of kitchen cutting boards and other assorted "Non-tonewoods"... gotta love it.
as usual if you scratch the surface of every story you find something like this underneath...........
http://tpnnews.com/2011/08/28/is-the-obama-regime-politicizing-the-music-business/
That may be interesting but there are other facts that build a more interesting and sinister circumstantial case for politics being involved.
The CEO of Gibson is Henry Jusziewicz. Among other things, he gave $2,000 to Congressman Marsha Blackburn, (R-TN) and Lamar Alexander (R-TN) He as also donated to a Consumer Electronics Pac that favors Republicans over Democrats.
Chris Martin, of Martin Guitars, on the other hand is a long time Democrat. Over the last four years, he has given over $35,000 to Democratic Candidates and the DNC.
Stay safe.
DJ Urbanovsky
08-29-2011, 07:59
New Gibbys don't blow my skirt up. For what they charge for their high end LPs, I'd rather have something custom built.
As far as amp modeling goes, I've tried just about everything out there and I have yet to find anything that accurately duplicates the tone of a Mesa Recto.
Tone isn't just about woods or instrument construction. It's the sum of everything in your signal path. Crummy electronics or cabling will rob you of tone as fast as the sound guy turning the "suck" knob up on the board.
As far as this wood situation goes... More nanny state nonsense... I am unsurprised. I know we have to look after the environment and manage a finite pool of natural resources, but just how much friggin' wood do these people think does Gibson uses? It's retarded. You know, it's almost like our government WANTS American manufacturing to fail...
Red Flag 1
08-29-2011, 08:15
+1 here, I have an Ibanez SA series with a Brazilian Rosewood fretboard...
If they are using Brazilian Rosewood for fret boards, they are wasting the supply of a valuable tone wood. I'll bet it is African/Indian or Honduran Rosewood that is being used.
Nice guitars. Although, with a synthetic material, a $2k pricetag will make it difficult to make in-roads into the American music scene.
There are instruments out there that use synthetics in part , or totally. Ovation has been using synthetic back and sides for decades, Glenn Campbell used Ovations for decades. Rain Song guitars are all synthetic carbon fiber. Both instruments are well made, cost some bucks, and have a great sound. With the Rain Song, it has been said that if you are doing a serenade on the water in a canoe, you can us the instrument as a paddle if needed ; with no ill effects on the guitar.......so they advertise.
Another response to the shortage of Brazilian Rosewood, and other expensive hard tone woods, has been the use of onboard electronics. Thanks to miniaturization, and computer technology, you can strum on your lower end guitar, and have a Martinesque sound come out of your acoustic amp.
What I do wonder about is what happens to my/your/our supply Brazilian Rosewood purchased in the early 60's, at market price. Does that really put me in danger of arrest and prosecution? That I own and older MGB, not up to today's " safety" standards, am I subject to arrest for that as well? :mad:
RF 1
There are instruments out there that use synthetics in part , or totally. Ovation has been using synthetic back and sides for decades, Glenn Campbell used Ovations for decades. Rain Song guitars are all synthetic carbon fiber. Both instruments are well made, cost some bucks, and have a great sound. With the Rain Song, it has been said that if you are doing a serenade on the water in a canoe, you can us the instrument as a paddle if needed ; with no ill effects on the guitar.......so they advertise.
I was referring more to the electric scene, where the two schools are LP and Strats. IMO, that's why the synthetic materials aren't bigger in the guitar world today (think of the resin necks, etc).
But I agree, Ovations are beautiful sounding instruments, plugged or unplugged.
Barbarian
08-29-2011, 09:22
I have yet to find anything that accurately duplicates the tone of a Mesa Recto.
Amen to that! Such a thing will likely never exist.
If they are using Brazilian Rosewood for fret boards, they are wasting the supply of a valuable tone wood. I'll bet it is African/Indian or Honduran Rosewood that is being used.
Maybe, I'll have to double check, I am pretty sure it is Brazilian though. Having played many acoustic and electric guitars, I will give you wood to tone is more vital on acoustic instruments, but not that much more, than electric. IMHO, from experience, replacing the pickups on a poorly made electric guitar(either workmanship, wood used v.s. synthetic etc) in an effort to improve the tone doesn't give you much, v.s. the same on a well/better made instrument.
The modern SA line is partly synthetic, however the first of that line(which I have) where mahogany bodies with rosewood fret board's and (I believe) an oak neck.
My .02 YMMV
I'm so old and deaf, I couldn't tell a D-28 made from Brazwood from a Tele made from pine if the volumes were below 11.
greenberetTFS
08-29-2011, 14:33
I'm so old and deaf, I couldn't tell a D-28 made from Brazwood from a Tele made from pine if the volumes were below 11.
Dusty,are you sure you play a guitar or a Harp?...............:p
Big Teddy :munchin
Red Flag 1
08-29-2011, 14:40
Dusty,are you sure you play a guitar or a Harp?...............:p
Big Teddy :munchin
:D:D:
RF 1
What is incredible to me is that while the original Lacey Act dates back over a hundred years, it was only recently changed so the it is now a violation of United States federal law to import any plant or animal in violation of the laws of any foreign country.
In other words, the U.S. Government now allows foreign countries to make laws for us, which the United States Government will enforce.
So, will the Government of the United States at least have the decency to let American citizens know what foreign laws exist and will be enforced by the federal agents?
Of course not:
8. Is there a database of foreign laws that will be enforced as a result of the Lacey Act Amendment?
The Lacey Act now makes it unlawful to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase in interstate or foreign commerce any plant, with some limited exceptions, taken, possessed, transported or sold in violation of the laws of the United States, a State, an Indian tribe, or any foreign law that protects plants or that regulates certain plant related offenses. It is the responsibility of the importer to be aware of any foreign laws that may pertain to their merchandise prior to its importation into the United States. Currently, the U.S. Government has no plans to create such a database.
(emphasis added)
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/lacey_act/downloads/faq.pdf
Note the heavy handed actions of the federals against the Gibson Guitar company. Instead of showing up like decent human beings, asking questions, asking to see paperwork, etc. these assholes barged in with guns, seized the wood and guitars, shut down production, and threatened the company with "tampering with evidence" if they ship a guitar.
I had the misfortune of dealing with the U.S. Attorney for the Middle District of Tennessee (a fat Democrat political hack named Jerry E. Martin) and one of this drones (Debra Teufel Phillips) . I understand the frustration of a hardworking, taxpaying, payroll paying American from Nashville who discovers that his own government has barged in with guns and badges, seized his property and locked it up. They then make him file a claim for the return of his own property, and make him post a cash cost bond in advance. He must then fight to recover his own property from an opponent who can rack up unlimited hours of legal work, generate page after page of pleading, motions, and demand endless hearings. And even if the claimant wins, his opponent can, at absolutely no cost or penalty, file appeal after appeal, again at no cost. In fact, since the men with guns have seized his property, HE is the claimant and HE has the burden of proof. All the U.S. Attorney has to do is ... nothing ... and shut down his production for months or years. And if he wins?
"OK, here's your wood back. No hard feelings, eh?"
And in the case of the BATFE, they can even "settle the case" with an agreement to return the property, only to have the BAFTE make you wait months -- in the face of a signed order from a federal judge -- before returning the property. And then wait even more months for your cash court costs to be refunded.
It just isn't right.
greenberetTFS
08-29-2011, 15:08
What is incredible to me is that while the original Act dates back over a hundred years, it was only recently changed so the it is now a violation of United States federal law to import any plant or animal in violation of the laws of any foreign country.
In other words, the U.S. Government now allows foreign countries to make laws for us, which the United States Government will enforce.
So, will the Government of the United States at least have the decency to let American citizens know what foreign laws exist and will be enforced by the federal agents?
Of course not:
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/lacey_act/downloads/faq.pdf
Note the heavy handed actions of the federals against the Gibson Guitar company. Instead of showing up like decent human beings, asking questions, asking to see paperwork, etc. these assholes barged in with guns, seized the wood and guitars, shut down production, and threatened the company with "tampering with evidence" if they ship a guitar.
I had the misfortune of dealing with the U.S. Attorney for the Middle District of Tennessee (a fat Democrat political hack named Jerry E. Martin) and one of this drones (Debra Teufel Phillips) . I understand the frustration of a hardworking, taxpaying, payroll paying American from Nashville who discovers that his own government has barged in with guns and badges, seized his property and locked it up. They then make him file a claim for the return of his own property, and make him post a cash cost bond in advance. He must then fight to recover his own property from an opponent who can rack up unlimited hours of legal work, generate page after page of pleading, motions, and demand endless hearings. And even if the claimant wins, his opponent can, at absolutely no cost or penalty, file appeal after appeal, again at no cost. In fact, since the men with guns have seized his property, HE is the claimant and HE has the burden of proof. All the U.S. Attorney has to do is ... nothing ... and shut down his production for months or years. And if he wins?
"OK, here's your wood back. No hard feelings, eh?"
And in the case of the BATFE, they can even "settle the case" with an agreement to return the property, only to have the BAFTE make you wait months -- in the face of a signed order from a federal judge -- before returning the property. And then wait even more months for your cash court costs to be refunded.
It just isn't right.
Geez,CSB you can really paint a rosy picture of "We're here from the government and we're here to help you"........:rolleyes:
Big Teddy :munchin
QP CSB,
Sounds a lot like a recent incident with a meat packing plant in Postville, Iowa... :(
Dusty,are you sure you play a guitar or a Harp?...............:p
Big Teddy
Violin :boohoo :D:D
Dusty,are you sure you play a guitar or a Harp?...............:p
Big Teddy :munchin
lol Don't rush me, Bro. :D
Badger52
08-31-2011, 07:35
"OK, here's your wood back. No hard feelings, eh?"
And in the case of the BATFE,...The '62 Strat and the AK are both within arm's reach.
mark46th
08-31-2011, 13:05
Rush says the raid on Gibson Guitar is political revenge for the company donating to the Republicans during the last presidential election...
greenberetTFS
08-31-2011, 14:58
Rush says the raid on Gibson Guitar is political revenge for the company donating to the Republicans during the last presidential election...
Typical Rush "Hyperbole" ......... :rolleyes: The question is what does he have to say about AT&T's merger being blocked by the DOJ?........:eek:
Big Teddy :munchin
I'm looking to buy a D18VS. Mahogany. Does that make me a Dem?
Typical Rush "Hyperbole" ......... :rolleyes: The question is what does he have to say about AT&T's merger being blocked by the DOJ?........:eek:
Big Teddy :munchin
"Hyperbole", maybe, but I've noticed that the guy is right almost all of the time, in the long run. I wish I could get him on radio up here.
Typical Rush "Hyperbole" ......... ....
Lets see. Two Guitar Companies. Both use the same wood. One donates to Republicans and gets raided. The other donates to Democrats and is not raided.
Maybe less "Hyperbole" than some would think.
KMJ Radio host Chris Daniel interviewed Gibson CEO Henry Juszkiewicz today The Gibson CEO told Chris that the Obama Administration told them, "Your problems would go away if you used Madagascar labor instead of our labor."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUxDrwj1xcU&feature=youtu.be