View Full Version : Searching for an identity
Eyesinthesky
08-17-2011, 22:43
I was debating mightily between here and the base camp section but this seemed the safer option. This may seem a bit convoluted but all of this has been bouncing around inside my head for a while and I've just now found a place where I can put it all out there and get a sanity check.
As QP's, what are your views on AFSOC and where it fits into the picture? do you actually view us as SOF or are we like the little kid that tries to hang out with the big kids in the parking lot smoking when he's 15? Going doubly for us in the RPA community.
Some of this has come up stemming from our leadership trying to foot stomp us being part of the SOF community but some of us seem to have trouble swallowing that pill.
What do y'all think of RPA's? I'm an SO on MQ-1's and while I love my job and believe that my squadron is doing fantastic things, I've always wondered what the guys on the other end think of us, as a valuable asset or an annoyance? We never really get any feedback from those whom we support, so I was wondering, without violating OPSEC of course, how we are thought of by the boots on the ground.
Air Force "SOF" was SOF before there was SOF - and they worked with SF.
Gun Ships, Black Birds and 53s did a lot of work in VN and expanded from there. PJs and CCT have been around a long time. Those assets require many folks to keep them up and running. A "Command" brought them together and under one hat - so to say.
I can remember being in Isolation in the early 80s and wanting to know if our infil 130 or 141 was a SOW Bird or not. If yes, our chances of hitting the drop zone were much better.
It takes a lot of folks to make up a SOF unit. It takes each one doing their job to the best of their ability to make it work.
Take pride in serving in a SOF unit - but remember that does not make you a SEAL, Ranger, PJ, CCT guy or Green Beret.
I agree with Pete. IMO it's like a giant Venn Diagram with each SOF component having its smaller overlapping areas of similarity and their greater areas of specialization - takes 'em all to make up the whole enchilada, and doing whatever the job is as a part of the community makes it all work.
Perhaps you could suggest to your command the idea of a short professional development conference which could bring together some of your ffolkes and a few of those you support on the ground for a discussion.
FWIW - my nephew's a PJ - I give him some ribbing for not going SF but couldn't be prouder of him, his accomplishments, and the job he's doing.
Keep the ball rolling - do the job.
Richard :munchin
Cake_14N
08-18-2011, 07:25
You need to take a look at what the 11th Intelligence Squadron is doing to support USSOCOM. They have really pushed the limits of PED and get products into shooter’s hands extremely quickly. They also forward deploy their young troops into the AOR to act as the SME downrange to improve the crossflow of information. Some of their products represent a completely new paradigm in PED. They get exactly what the teams on the ground ask for, no matter that it typically does not fall into the traditional definition of a target folder. They just get the job done, no matter what.
After you dig into what can and is being done to support SOF you will have a greater appreciation of the fact that the USAF does play a vital role in SOF and in many cases leads the way.
You can also try to get a slot for the AFSOC/IFTU. It is a very good course. I went with 15 years experience dealing with F-16s and the IFTU opened my eyes to things I never considered as an Intelligence professional before.
Cake
You need to take a look at what the 11th Intelligence Squadron is doing to support USSOCOM. They have really pushed the limits of PED and get products into shooter’s hands extremely quickly. They also forward deploy their young troops into the AOR to act as the SME downrange to improve the crossflow of information. Some of their products represent a completely new paradigm in PED. They get exactly what the teams on the ground ask for, no matter that it typically does not fall into the traditional definition of a target folder. They just get the job done, no matter what.
After you dig into what can and is being done to support SOF you will have a greater appreciation of the fact that the USAF does play a vital role in SOF and in many cases leads the way.
You can also try to get a slot for the AFSOC/IFTU. It is a very good course. I went with 15 years experience dealing with F-16s and the IFTU opened my eyes to things I never considered as an Intelligence professional before.
Cake
You need to take a look, Cake, at where my custom knife is. Because it's not in my posession, yet.
Call me the naysayer but...no. I will consider PJ's, CCT's, some TACP's, and real aviation like AC/MC-130 crews and helo guys SOF but not ISR people. They sit miles away from the battlefields flying an RC airplane. I am in no way saying it is not a valuable tool, only a fool or someone with zero experience with ISR would. But do I look at a MQ-1 operator the same as I look at a PJ? Never, no way, no how.
That said..keep doing what you are doing. We may make fun but we know we need your assets to be successful at our jobs.
Dragbag036
08-18-2011, 16:51
SOF Truths
* Humans are more important than Hardware.
* Quality is better than Quantity.
* Special Operations Forces cannot be mass produced.
* Competent Special Operations Forces cannot be created after emergencies occur.
* Most Special Operations require non-SOF assistance
The Reaper
08-18-2011, 17:25
Call me the naysayer but...no. I will consider PJ's, CCT's, some TACP's, and real aviation like AC/MC-130 crews and helo guys SOF but not ISR people. They sit miles away from the battlefields flying an RC airplane. I am in no way saying it is not a valuable tool, only a fool or someone with zero experience with ISR would. But do I look at a MQ-1 operator the same as I look at a PJ? Never, no way, no how.
That said..keep doing what you are doing. We may make fun but we know we need your assets to be successful at our jobs.
Concur.
Well said.
TR
Utah Bob
08-18-2011, 22:57
A round needs a case, powder, primer and projectile to function.
Can't hit the target without them all working together.
mark46th
08-19-2011, 08:32
Spent some time with the Jolly Greens, Knifes(Both flew 53's) and PJ's at NKP in SE Asia. They would do anything, go anywhere to help us. I would gladly do the same.
Eyesinthesky
08-19-2011, 13:27
No worries I'd never consider myself SOF. What we do is special and classified (until someone has a case of the mouth runs) but not special forces. If anything we're like the 21st century bird dogs: Find, Fix, Track, Assess, Finish. We don't always pull the trigger but have the capability to do so if needed. We are in our infancy and has some cool stuff coming but I know we'll never be on the level of y'all or your bretheren.
On a related note, what Richard said struck a cord with me. We work day in and day out with folks, 24/7/365 but we never really get any feedback. We fly in do the job and then............nada. We may hear of the results but not really any input from the boots what we do well, what we could do better, or even what capes we could invest some time and effort in developing. We had a retired QP come talk to us but it was more a closed door time for him to tell us a brief history of QP's and some other the highlights of his long career ( holy hell what a dude btw) never really touched on working with us. I'll throw that idea up the chain but it was a whole lot easier to get guys to come talk to us when we still called Vegas home, wonder why that is........... :p
be safe
Tom