View Full Version : Sleep-deprivation induced medical issue
Revised version with less personal information:
Years ago, a soldier at an SF display/recruiting booth told me that I'd be an ideal candidate for SF because of my language abilities. I didn't take it seriously until later on in college, I thought about SF seriously and took it as a calling and a vehicle to live my values, contribute to a bigger cause, join a brotherhood, etc. Unwilling to quit the semester and run away from family problems to join the army, I went to classes and dealt with problems back home, all while conducting self-training and self-assessment in college, including land navigation and testing my fear of heights, and finally, a week's worth of sleep deprivation sleep deprivation. I was determined at first to fix my family conflicts first before joining the military and SF to fix the world, but later decided that I have to establish my independence first before I can really help my family. Having always felt like myself and comfortable around army friends, I decided that the Army was the best way to do that.
Then one day in my sleep deprived mind I went to my recruiter with the biggest smile on my face and told him I decided to go infantry, that was the same time I started getting some really weird delusions/thoughts from the sleep deprivation I've induced upon myself, including thinking that I've actually died, and saying my "last words" before closing my eyes, etc. My concerned mother sent me to the hospital due to my unusual behavior. After I got discharged from the hospital, I tried to follow up with my initial decision to enlist, but realized how much the odds are against the possibility of getting myself medically qualified to get in, I've tried different recruiters, I even got my psychiatrist to give me a non-DQing diagnosis of "brief sleep deprivation induced psychotic symptoms," and write letters for me to give to the recruiter. I feel like I've been cheated by those who say that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, you gotta push yourself, etc. I pushed myself past my physical limit and all I got was get reduced to a broken mind and DQ for enlistment. I wasn't able to join the military and I wasn't able to fix my family. I felt stupid. But then again, maybe I'm meant for something totally else, and in that sense, I might be stronger, but still, I don't really see how anything else I would rather do other than the things I get to do in the SF.
As weird and stupid as it sounds, I've never felt more idealistic in the sense of having found my life's purpose during that time when I took the SF as a calling. For the longest time since my hospitalization I tried to follow up with my decision to join the Army, but the odds have never been stacked up more against me. Basically, I came to this forum because I was desperate for advise and guidance.
I've prided myself in "pulling-off" many seemingly impossible things in the past. I know from experience that just because someone say it's impossible doesn't mean it's impossible. But this one seems like such a far shot that I definitely need help from you guys on this forum, and any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Maybe you'd better settle for Napolean XIV...
ZonieDiver
08-12-2011, 11:19
Maybe you'd better settle for Napolean XIV...
Damn it, Dusty! That's twice within fifteen minutes!
I was composing a long reply regarding SA, etc in my mind as I read that post. It would have rivaled Sigaba in depth and complexity. THEN, you say it all in SEVEN words, and make me spit water on my keyboard... again!
(Even if you did not spell Napoleon correctly! :p
Is it April 1? Am I on Punked? Where's Ashton?
Dozer523
08-12-2011, 12:19
My question is what else I can do to become a Green Beret if it's even possible now?I can't see ANY thing you could do to top this. And they will love you in whatever Teamroom you end up in.
Ignore those three whisperers over there.
1stindoor
08-12-2011, 13:34
I want to give you a heartfelt reply...but I don't think I can top what's already been posted; suffice to say the Regs are there for your safety...and apparently for ours too.
I totally understand and respect the military in its right to use discretion when accepting potentially dangerous applicants. But from what I know, the military revise their regulations periodically, and the leniency regarding specific medical issues vary, like granting more waivers to applicants with ADHD and depression in recent years. I heard from a psychiatrist who said he's worked with many Bipolar patients at Walter Reed who served in the military. So my guess is that at one point, the military did not consider BiPolar to be a serious/dangerous illness enough to be PDQ'd without a waiver, or that those people simply lied about their medical history at MEPS.
I mean can totally see why Schizophrenia, depression, and panic disorder be a problem int he military, but Bipolar? Most people I know who were diagnosed with Bipolar are hardworking and headstrong, if not annoying at times:). Most of them don't hallucinate, and who cares about Bipolar when the individual does his job well? But is there something about Bipolar particularly in its relationship with the military that I don't know? Do you guys happen to know anybody in the military or SF community who has Bipolar?
Also about the psychotic symptoms (aka. hallucinations and delusions) that arise from lack of sleep. I hear stories all the time that in Ranger school candidates would mistake tress for vending machines and see women offering ice cream in the middle of nowhere when they don't sleep for 2 days. Do sleep deprivation in the Special Forces induce hallucinations/delusions like Ranger school does? Can sleep deprivation cause symptoms that can be mistaken for actual disorders like Bipolar and psychosis?
I don't routinely sleep-deprive myself to prepare myself for Special Forces or just for the sake of it, I did it on a one-time basis to see if I have the mental capacity to push myself. I have never hallucinated or had delusions in my non-sleep deprived state, how is it different than the Rangers that went nuts in Ranger training, other than the fact that my sleep-deprivation is self-induced?
1stindoor
08-12-2011, 15:37
All I can tell you is there is a world of difference between someone that's in and someone that's trying to come in. Just out of curiosity, where did you learn about that training technique before enlistment?
ZonieDiver
08-12-2011, 16:05
I totally understand and respect the military in its right to use discretion when accepting potentially dangerous applicants. But from what I know, the military revise their regulations periodically, and the leniency regarding specific medical issues vary, like granting more waivers to applicants with ADHD and depression in recent years. I heard from a psychiatrist who said he's worked with many Bipolar patients at Walter Reed who served in the military. So my guess is that at one point, the military did not consider BiPolar to be a serious/dangerous illness enough to be PDQ'd without a waiver, or that those people simply lied about their medical history at MEPS.
I mean can totally see why Schizophrenia, depression, and panic disorder be a problem int he military, but Bipolar? Most people I know who were diagnosed with Bipolar are hardworking and headstrong, if not annoying at times:). Most of them don't hallucinate, and who cares about Bipolar when the individual does his job well? But is there something about Bipolar particularly in its relationship with the military that I don't know? Do you guys happen to know anybody in the military or SF community who has Bipolar?
Also about the psychotic symptoms (aka. hallucinations and delusions) that arise from lack of sleep. I hear stories all the time that in Ranger school candidates would mistake tress for vending machines and see women offering ice cream in the middle of nowhere when they don't sleep for 2 days. Do sleep deprivation in the Special Forces induce hallucinations/delusions like Ranger school does? Can sleep deprivation cause symptoms that can be mistaken for actual disorders like Bipolar and psychosis?
I don't routinely sleep-deprive myself to prepare myself for Special Forces or just for the sake of it, I did it on a one-time basis to see if I have the mental capacity to push myself. I have never hallucinated or had delusions in my non-sleep deprived state, how is it different than the Rangers that went nuts in Ranger training, other than the fact that my sleep-deprivation is self-induced?
Not to pile on, but it hasn't yet been said... so: Read more, post less.
Somewhere here there is a thread where a young wannabe Jedi asked about "training" to prepare oneself for sleep deprivation. Had you read that, you might not have attempted such "training".
All I can tell you is there is a world of difference between someone that's in and someone that's trying to come in.
Sorry, but what do you mean?
Just out of curiosity, where did you learn about that training technique before enlistment?
I assume by "training technique" you are referring to sleep deprivation. I heard it from a prior enlisted friend in Army ROTC, watched the "two weeks in hell" documentary, and some searches on google. A recruiter also told me that if I want to be in the Army, I better get used to inadequate sleep.
Somewhere here there is a thread where a young wannabe Jedi asked about "training" to prepare oneself for sleep deprivation. Had you read that, you might not have attempted such "training".
I read that right after I made this post, (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31348&highlight=deprivation if you were referring to this one)
you're right, had I ran into this forum sooner, I wouldn't have done it.
I assume by "training technique" you are referring to sleep deprivation. I heard it from a prior enlisted friend in Army ROTC, watched the "two weeks in hell" documentary, and some searches on google. A recruiter also told me that if I want to be in the Army, I better get used to inadequate sleep.
I read that right after I made this post, (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31348&highlight=deprivation if you were referring to this one)
you're right, had I ran into this forum sooner, I wouldn't have done it.
Let your experience stand as a word of caution to any young bucks thinking of trying the same thing. Anyone thinking of making SF needs to be getting all the sleep they can get - in order for their body and minds to be fully recovering and benefiting from the training and preparation they should be doing.
There are other ways for you to serve this country, SB8734, than the military. You need to look at other options.
1stindoor
08-12-2011, 20:59
Sorry, but what do you mean?
What I meant is that when a Soldier is going through training, i.e. SFQC, SFAS, Ranger, etc, there are numerous control mechanisms in place to ensure that the training is as realistic as possible while still remaining as safe as possible. When Soldiers are denied adequate sleep there are many people watching to make sure that someone's life isn't in danger.
I assume by "training technique" you are referring to sleep deprivation. I heard it from a prior enlisted friend in Army ROTC, watched the "two weeks in hell" documentary, and some searches on google. A recruiter also told me that if I want to be in the Army, I better get used to inadequate sleep.
Either your lack of common sense or your recruiters lack of a proper explaination, or both, set you up for failure. There's also a world of difference between inadequate sleep and sleep deprivation.
you're right, had I ran into this forum sooner, I wouldn't have done it.
That was my point. There's a lot of information on this site on preparation for the Selection Course...why try to reinvent the wheel?
You should've just concentrated on getting in the Army and passing basic training first.:cool:
Stay safe.
greenberetTFS
08-24-2011, 09:26
You should've just concentrated on getting in the Army and passing basic training first.:cool:
Stay safe.
That's been the best response I've read so far..................;)
Big Teddy :munchin
I weened off all of my medications now with my shrink, and I talked to a recruiter about my situation, he told me I should be fine since my Bipolar diagnosis was never official, despite my hospitalization. Even though I'm technically "mental illness-free" now, I still feel that I could use alot more clear mind, my problem is that I think too much. I did some research and found that mindfulness is an effective way for some people to deal with stress and Bi-Polar, I mean the concept seems just like what I need. I then googled and didn't find much when it came to information on practicing meditation/mindfulness and success in the military in particular. Does anybody in this forum have had any success stories or insights on mindfulness/meditation and dealing with stress and the military in particular? Thank you in advance for your responses.
I weened off all of my medications now with my shrink, and I talked to a recruiter about my situation, he told me I should be fine since my Bipolar diagnosis was never official, despite my hospitalization. Even though I'm technically "mental illness-free" now, I still feel that I could use alot more clear mind, my problem is that I think too much. I did some research and found that mindfulness is an effective way for some people to deal with stress and Bi-Polar, I mean the concept seems just like what I need. I then googled and didn't find much when it came to information on practicing meditation/mindfulness and success in the military in particular. Does anybody in this forum have had any success stories or insights on mindfulness/meditation and dealing with stress and the military in particular? Thank you in advance for your responses.
Can't help you. I'm crazy, myself.
Go Devil
10-12-2011, 17:22
SB8734,
Try this.
Put your energy into something outside of yourself without expectation of return.
The Reaper
10-12-2011, 17:25
I weened off all of my medications now with my shrink, and I talked to a recruiter about my situation, he told me I should be fine since my Bipolar diagnosis was never official, despite my hospitalization. Even though I'm technically "mental illness-free" now, I still feel that I could use alot more clear mind, my problem is that I think too much. I did some research and found that mindfulness is an effective way for some people to deal with stress and Bi-Polar, I mean the concept seems just like what I need. I then googled and didn't find much when it came to information on practicing meditation/mindfulness and success in the military in particular. Does anybody in this forum have had any success stories or insights on mindfulness/meditation and dealing with stress and the military in particular? Thank you in advance for your responses.
Okay, let me be frank with you.
After reading all of this, I don't want you on my team. Or in my company. Or in my battalion. Or in an SF Group. Or really, in SF at all.
I even have my doubts about you serving as a soldier.
Maybe you could start in the Air Force. As long as the unit does not have any weapons at all. Prove yourself there. Then maybe try the Army, after several years.
We have too many situations requiring level headed thinking and do not have the time or inclination to deal with people who may decide to be impulsive, "headstrong", or "annoying" for no particular reason.
TR
I get the memo that I'm not welcomed here, but well said, and will do, TR
The Reaper
10-12-2011, 18:26
I get the memo that I'm not welcomed here, but well said, and will do, TR
Here, no problems so far.
Other than false expectations.
TR
I weened off all of my medications now with my shrink, and I talked to a recruiter about my situation, he told me I should be fine since my Bipolar diagnosis was never official, despite my hospitalization. Even though I'm technically "mental illness-free" now, I still feel that I could use alot more clear mind, my problem is that I think too much. I did some research and found that mindfulness is an effective way for some people to deal with stress and Bi-Polar, I mean the concept seems just like what I need. I then googled and didn't find much when it came to information on practicing meditation/mindfulness and success in the military in particular. Does anybody in this forum have had any success stories or insights on mindfulness/meditation and dealing with stress and the military in particular? Thank you in advance for your responses.Information overload!
Understanding Information Overload (http://www.infogineering.net/understanding-information-overload.htm)
Solutions
Although there is no simple solution to the problem of Information Overload, there are some things that can be done to reduce the problem.
These include:
Spending less time on gaining information that is nice to know and more time on things that we need to know now.
Focusing on quality of information, rather than quantity. A short concise e-mail is more valuable than a long e-mail.
Learning how to create better information (this is what Infogineering is about). Be direct in what you ask people, so that they can provide short precise answers.
Single-tasking, and keeping the mind focused on one issue at a time.
Spending parts of the day disconnected from interruptions (e.g. switch off e-mail, telephones, Web, etc.) so you can fully concentrate for a significant period of time on one thing.
Also read: The Myth of Multitasking: How "Doing It All" Gets Nothing Done (http://www.amazon.com/Myth-Multitasking-Doing-Gets-Nothing/dp/0470372257)
Stay safe.
whocares175
11-02-2011, 22:03
just in case you're still trying to enter military service....the wars are winding down, funds are drying up, entry requirements are going back up. im not going to reiturate anything else that's been said already as there are plenty on here with more experience than i have that have spoken already.
Baht Dog
11-03-2011, 08:46
Anyone ever try to put coins into a tree from sleep deprivation or a similar experience? Or observe someone doing it? Maybe that's for another thread Titled "Funniest Sleep Deprivation Episodes Vol I". Hell I still stay sleep deprived half the time - because I don't like going to sleep. Miss out on too much :D
sleepyhead4
11-03-2011, 09:21
I don't like going to bed either. Most times my wife has to tell me it's my bedtime. Too much stuff to do, watch, read, etc.
I thought when I grew up I could make my own rules but then I got married.
I don't like going to bed either. Most times my wife has to tell me it's my bedtime. Too much stuff to do, watch, read, etc.
I thought when I grew up I could make my own rules but then I got married.
You too, huh?
Let your experience stand as a word of caution to any young bucks thinking of trying the same thing. Anyone thinking of making SF needs to be getting all the sleep they can get - in order for their body and minds to be fully recovering and benefiting from the training and preparation they should be doing.
There are other ways for you to serve this country, SB8734, than the military. You need to look at other options.
I'm back and want to say that I AM looking at other options for which I can use my creative and language skills to further the mission of the SF, in ways that are nearly as exciting as the SF, what are the options?
I'm back and want to say
that I AM looking at other options for which I can use my creative and language skills to further the mission of the SF,
in ways that are nearly as exciting as the SF,
what are the options?
Options?
Pick a religion of choice and do some evangelical work: http://www.worldea.org/
or
Join the peace corp: http://www.peacecorps.gov/
or
Join CCC: http://www.crossculturalsolutions.org/
The Exciting part is what you make of it... In my opinion, most if not all will fail miserably to get even close to the Excitement of Special Forces...
:munchin
rsmith569
03-27-2012, 10:32
I'm back and want to say that I AM looking at other options for which I can use my creative and language skills to further the mission of the SF, in ways that are nearly as exciting as the SF, what are the options?
Go join the French Army I hear they don't use there weapons much. Also just try and join the Military and they will give you all the answers you need for your options.
Back In My Lane Now
I'm back and want to say that I AM looking at other options for which I can use my creative and language skills to further the mission of the SF, in ways that are nearly as exciting as the SF, what are the options?
SB, I am glad to hear you are looking at other options, especially in light of some of the advice given.
One of the things my dad constantly drilled into me was that the decisions we make now affect us the rest of our lives. Good or bad. It took me a while to finally understand what he was saying. Life experience had to catch up with me, my way of thinking and maturity, or immaturity as it were. We still bring this up from time to time just to remind eachother when we see examples of it around us.
Many of the things you seek, and now something else "nearly as exciting" also require security clearance just to aid and assist, and further the mission. You have probably excluded yourself from that group.
So I have a question, you don't have to answer, just think about it if you like. In the last 8 months of researching your options what have you come up with? What have you been doing to further yourself in life decision wise?
Say for instance when all of this started you were in college. Are you back in college? A four year degree will go a long way in life.
In fact, you would need one to go into the Peace Corps, as QP JJ_BPK offered.
Did you know that the majority of SF have advanced degrees, both officers and enlisted, and a majority of those have two or three degrees?
It may not get you any job in the military, but is a decision you can make to take responsibility for yourself, and one that will serve your future well.
Just some food for thought.
Actually I think you even need a security clearance to go into the Peace Corps. But college may be one of your best options right now.
pjbluetogreen
03-28-2012, 13:54
Maybe you could start in the Air Force. As long as the unit does not have any weapons at all. Prove yourself there. Then maybe try the Army, after several years.
We have too many situations requiring level headed thinking and do not have the time or inclination to deal with people who may decide to be impulsive, "headstrong", or "annoying" for no particular reason.
-TR
With that has been said as a prior AF guy I would not want him near an air plane either. All aircraft are multi-million dollar assets. Aircraft especially helos are millions of little pieces moving in tight formation waiting for one to get out of proper working order so that they can send the whole thing to the ground. Having been in several crashes and hard landings I would not want you around my plane, helo, packing parachutes, handling my pay or anything else that keeps me doing what I do, or what the other in this forum Operators do. The AF has issues putting some on that has had issues with Bi-polar, depression or other psyc issue in for that reason. However, once you have been off meds for two years or more you may then be able to get in.
What are your other options? Read a Message to Garcia. Go talk to recruiters not just on but for all of the branches, to get as much info as you can. And make it work for you. when you want to do something, do the research on what it take to do it, then go out and get it don't! If you in the process find that you are unable for what ever reason to thats OK but then go find something else that interests you and do the same thing all over again, repeat this process until you find the overlap of your interest and ability (to include the requirement outside of your control), odds are that may be something that you have been called to do.
Good luck
SB, I am glad to hear you are looking at other options, especially in light of some of the advice given.
One of the things my dad constantly drilled into me was that the decisions we make now affect us the rest of our lives. Good or bad. It took me a while to finally understand what he was saying. Life experience had to catch up with me, my way of thinking and maturity, or immaturity as it were. We still bring this up from time to time just to remind eachother when we see examples of it around us.
Many of the things you seek, and now something else "nearly as exciting" also require security clearance just to aid and assist, and further the mission. You have probably excluded yourself from that group.
So I have a question, you don't have to answer, just think about it if you like. In the last 8 months of researching your options what have you come up with? What have you been doing to further yourself in life decision wise?
[QUOTE]Say for instance when all of this started you were in college. Are you back in college? A four year degree will go a long way in life.
In fact, you would need one to go into the Peace Corps, as QP JJ_BPK offered.
Did you know that the majority of SF have advanced degrees, both officers and enlisted, and a majority of those have two or three degrees?
It may not get you any job in the military, but is a decision you can make to take responsibility for yourself, and one that will serve your future well.
Just some food for thought.
[QUOTE=SB8734;476078]Thank you, I have come up with a few, but you are right about college. Without the military, I have no money to go back to college, what do you think is the best action I can take? I am 22 years old and most of the scholarships for for high school students I think. Thanks gain.
Thank you, I have come up with a few, but you are right about college. Without the military, I have no money to go back to college, what do you suggest I do? I'm 22 years old and most of the scholarships for for high school students I think. Thanks gain.