View Full Version : Verbicide
kawaishi
08-09-2011, 04:42
This is the first reading assignment from my first English class in college. It's a good essay and after recently re-discovering it I thought that others might also enjoy it.
http://www.oberlin.edu/news-info/00oct/verbicide.html
1stindoor
08-09-2011, 07:10
Thanks. That was a good read, it's interesting to me because I've always said there was power in the written word. I also find it amusing that it was added to this site as we as a group are regularly told that grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc. is not needed on the internet.
My third suggestion is to restore the habit of public reading. One of my very distinctive childhood memories was attending a public reading of Shakespeare by the British actor Charles Laughton. With no prop other than a book, he read with energy and passion for two hours and kept a large audience enthralled, including at least one 8-year-old boy. No movie has ever been as memorable to me. Further, I propose that adults turn off the television, disconnect the cable, undo the computer, and once again read good books aloud to their children. I know of no better or more pleasurable way to stimulate thinking, encourage a love of language, and facilitate the child’s ability to form images.
Although I'm not really a fan of the Harry Potter series, I think J.K. Rowling accomplished an amazing feat in getting a whole generation of kids to turn off the T.V....and read a book.
Badger52
08-09-2011, 10:43
Thanks. That was a good read, it's interesting to me because I've always said there was power in the written word. I also find it amusing that it was added to this site as we as a group are regularly told that grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc. is not needed on the internet.
Thanks kawaishi for posting that.
Balanced appreciation for language, whether colloquial, vernacular, or proper construction of declarative sentences that convey meaning and intent is an attractant to this site and remains so for me. One of the things that makes it, well, special and easily discernible from the chaff.
greenberetTFS
08-09-2011, 11:03
Thanks. That was a good read, it's interesting to me because I've always said there was power in the written word. I also find it amusing that it was added to this site as we as a group are regularly told that grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc. is not needed on the internet.
Although I'm not really a fan of the Harry Potter series, I think J.K. Rowling accomplished an amazing feat in getting a whole generation of kids to turn off the T.V....and read a book.
1stindoor,
Do you really believe it was the books and not the movies? :confused:
Lucky for me I didn't have to pass an English 101 test in SFTG because I'm sure at that time in my life at 18 I'd never had gotten any further in the training program, and neither would many others at that time. :(
Big Teddy :munchin
1stindoor,
Do you really believe it was the books and not the movies?..........:confused:
Big Teddy :munchin
In my house the only ones who didn't read the books were the adults.
The kids were reading them as fast as they came out.
greenberetTFS
08-09-2011, 11:16
In my house the only ones who didn't read the books were the adults.
The kids were reading them as fast as they came out.
OK,I stand corrected........;)
Big Teddy :munchin
1stindoor
08-09-2011, 11:48
I would have to go back deep into the recesses of my memory to figure out which ones he had read at the time...but my oldest (now 18) had read every one of them (out at that time) during his elementary school years. My daughter (now 15) has probably read every single one of them two or three times. My youngest (now 14) has read them all once....but listens to them on CD almost every night before going to bed.
1stindoor
08-09-2011, 11:50
Thanks kawaishi for posting that.
Balanced appreciation for language, whether colloquial, vernacular, or proper construction of declarative sentences that convey meaning and intent is an attractant to this site and remains so for me. One of the things that makes it, well, special and easily discernible from the chaff.
You talk pretty.:D
Holyfire23
08-09-2011, 12:30
Thank you for posting that. One of my favorite writers is Ravi Zacharias (see my signature :D). A quote of his echoes the essay you posted.
"Changes in language often reflect the changing values of a culture."---Ravi Zacharias
I find it funny that they say our generation is the most informed to ever exist because of tools such as the internet and TV. Yet we are also at a point where education is losing its value in the public eye faster than you can say "gigabyte".
1stindoor
08-09-2011, 13:38
I find it funny that they say our generation is the most informed to ever exist because of tools such as the internet and TV...
I disagree. This generation may have the most information at their disposal...but they're far from the most informed. I'm hard on my kids every day because they all want the answers given to them. No research or critical thinking done prior. Ask a question on a website and expect an answer given (worse...expect the "correct" answer to be given). This is part of the reason why the QPs on this site are so hard on those that can't seem to find the "SEARCH" button.
The internet, for all of it's wonder...has produced a generation of lazy students that want instant gratification.
greenberetTFS
08-09-2011, 13:41
Thank you for posting that. One of my favorite writers is Ravi Zacharias (see my signature :D). A quote of his echoes the essay you posted.
"Changes in language often reflect the changing values of a culture."---Ravi Zacharias
I find it funny that they say our generation is the most informed to ever exist because of tools such as the internet and TV. Yet we are also at a point where education is losing its value in the public eye faster than you can say "gigabyte".
Ravi is one of my favorites also,"Just Thinking"............:D
Big Teddy ;)
The internet, for all of it's wonder...has produced a generation of lazy students that want instant gratification.
That's technology is a nutshell, an aid thats turned into a crutch. EMP anyone? :eek: :D
1stindoor
08-09-2011, 13:50
That's technology is a nutshell, an aid thats turned into a crutch. EMP anyone? :eek: :D
That's why I'm waiting for Snake Pliskin to turn off the world.
Badger52
08-09-2011, 14:19
You talk pretty.:DYou crack me up sir - my Dylan Thomas-like rebellion against a colleague who was apparently injected with valley-girl toxin at an early age, and finishes every 3 words out of her mouth with a question mark. Being able to post that probably saved her life. I'm not sure there's any mentoring left in me for that one, so I focus on helping things one genius grand-daughter at a time.
Noting the comments about the instant-gratification generation I was astounded by comments on one of the amateur radio fora. It seems that, due to a solar event this past weekend, "the bands" were actually in the tank for a few hours :eek: with apparent emotional meltdown of the SSB ragchewers. Way back, "atmospherics" was a neat reason to go do something else for awhile.*
* Good thing I didn't know about it; went all over the place this weekend on CW and an old Vibroplex.
greenberetTFS
08-09-2011, 14:42
I disagree. This generation may have the most information at their disposal...but they're far from the most informed. I'm hard on my kids every day because they all want the answers given to them. No research or critical thinking done prior. Ask a question on a website and expect an answer given (worse...expect the "correct" answer to be given). This is part of the reason why the QPs on this site are so hard on those that can't seem to find the "SEARCH" button.
The internet, for all of it's wonder...has produced a generation of lazy students that want instant gratification.
Having to take extensive math for my Engineering degree,we had to show how we got our answers and then prove why they were correct...... :) Today my granddaughter's boyfriend,a Mechanical Engineering major informed me that his Prof wasn't really interested in how he comes up with his answers just as long as their correct.........:rolleyes: The times they are a changing!!!!!......:eek:
Big Teddy :munchin
That's why I'm waiting for Snake Pliskin to turn off the world.
Oh it's possible, without getting into specifics, SCADA security has been an issue for a long time(meaning all the MSM hype about the latest DefCon presentations is exactly that, new hype on an old issue) especially those used in energy and power distribution applications;With that said, there are better chances of a flash mob taking out your local sub-station than the Chinese replicating the 2003 outage on a national scale... :D
Holyfire23
08-09-2011, 16:53
I disagree. This generation may have the most information at their disposal...but they're far from the most informed. I'm hard on my kids every day because they all want the answers given to them. No research or critical thinking done prior. Ask a question on a website and expect an answer given (worse...expect the "correct" answer to be given). This is part of the reason why the QPs on this site are so hard on those that can't seem to find the "SEARCH" button.
The internet, for all of it's wonder...has produced a generation of lazy students that want instant gratification.
I agree with what you said, and that's what I was trying to illustrate in my post. Despite the internet's supposed ability to make learning "easy", people aren't learning. It seems to be having the opposite effect.
I agree with what you said, and that's what I was trying to illustrate in my post. Despite the internet's supposed ability to make learning "easy", people aren't learning. It seems to be having the opposite effect.
The Internet and the instant availability of information removes the work portion of the equation, essentially the need to seek and "earn" that information is gone; Which has only served to strengthen this generations entitlement mentality of "spoon feed it to me, right here, right now, and I deserve it because I'm breathing, dammit!".
kawaishi
08-09-2011, 23:36
Thanks. That was a good read, it's interesting to me because I've always said there was power in the written word. I also find it amusing that it was added to this site as we as a group are regularly told that grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc. is not needed on the internet.
Ironically, it was this site that reminded me of the essay. I've read so many QP's posts telling members that they'd better write in something resembling a modern language that it started to ring a bell.:D
On the first day of this class I had already skimmed our textbook and was underwhelmed by the examples of "good" writing that we were supposed to learn from. There were also a few soft indoctrination stories like my favorite which had the punchline, "Now you know what it feels like to be Palestinian."
When our teacher walked in he told the class that he wouldn't teach pre-schoolers out of that book and we could choose to stick to the book or we could trust him to run the class. We chose to go his route and started with this essay which set the tone for the rest of the semester.
Great class and a good man.
You crack me up sir - my Dylan Thomas-like rebellion against a colleague who was apparently injected with valley-girl toxin at an early age, and finishes every 3 words out of her mouth with a question mark.
Funny, that reminds me of a speech I've heard recently. If memory serves, it was given by a guy named barrak hussein or something like that.
IMO, Mr. Orr's piece is ironic, not the least because it decries the decline of language and of civility in America in almost the same breath that he quotes Susan Sontag.
Yes, he wrote his commentary a year before she penned a noisome piece for the 24 September 2001 issue of The New Yorker. Yet, by 2000, Ms. Sontag, who died in 2004, had made quite a career for herself using many of the practices that Mr. Orr deplored in his essay, most notably an incredible capacity for self-absorption.*
MOO, Mr. Orr's apparent discomfort with the Lemean hydra whose heads include the "Linguistic Turn," "the Cultural Turn," the new historicism, post-structuralism, and post-modernism, comes into sharper focus when one considers his political views. Those views, which he hints at by pointing to Orwell and to Sontag, and he summarizes here (http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0112-36.htm), inform his approach to the green building movement <<LINK (http://www.davidworr.com/)>>, to the English language, and to teaching and to learning as well.
Parenthetically, in that 2001 essay, available here (http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2001/09/24/010924ta_talk_wtc), Ms. Sontag wrote:The disconnect between last Tuesday's monstrous dose of reality and the self-righteous drivel and outright deceptions being peddled by public figures and TV commentators is startling, depressing. The voices licensed to follow the event seem to have joined together in a campaign to infantilize the public. Where is the acknowledgment that this was not a "cowardly" attack on "civilization" or "liberty" or "humanity" or "the free world" but an attack on the world's self-proclaimed superpower, undertaken as a consequence of specific American alliances and actions? How many citizens are aware of the ongoing American bombing of Iraq? And if the word "cowardly" is to be used, it might be more aptly applied to those who kill from beyond the range of retaliation, high in the sky, than to those willing to die themselves in order to kill others. In the matter of courage (a morally neutral virtue): whatever may be said of the perpetrators of Tuesday's slaughter, they were not cowards.
Our leaders are bent on convincing us that everything is O.K. America is not afraid. Our spirit is unbroken, although this was a day that will live in infamy and America is now at war. But everything is not O.K. And this was not Pearl Harbor. We have a robotic President who assures us that America still stands tall. A wide spectrum of public figures, in and out of office, who are strongly opposed to the policies being pursued abroad by this Administration apparently feel free to say nothing more than that they stand united behind President Bush. A lot of thinking needs to be done, and perhaps is being done in Washington and elsewhere, about the ineptitude of American intelligence and counter-intelligence, about options available to American foreign policy, particularly in the Middle East, and about what constitutes a smart program of military defense. But the public is not being asked to bear much of the burden of reality. The unanimously applauded, self-congratulatory bromides of a Soviet Party Congress seemed contemptible. The unanimity of the sanctimonious, reality-concealing rhetoric spouted by American officials and media commentators in recent days seems, well, unworthy of a mature democracy.
Those in public office have let us know that they consider their task to be a manipulative one: confidence-building and grief management. Politics, the politics of a democracy—which entails disagreement, which promotes candor—has been replaced by psychotherapy. Let's by all means grieve together. But let's not be stupid together. A few shreds of historical awareness might help us understand what has just happened, and what may continue to happen. "Our country is strong," we are told again and again. I for one don't find this entirely consoling. Who doubts that America is strong? But that's not all America has to be.
Ms. Sontag would follow up this tirade with a longer, more incendiary piece for the New York Times in 2004. That piece, "Regarding the Torture of Others," is available here (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/23/magazine/regarding-the-torture-of-others.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm).
But on the other hand, she wrote well.
_____________________________________________
* An obituary for Ms. Sontag is available here (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9500E4DF1739F93AA15751C1A9629C8B 63&pagewanted=all).
Badger52
08-10-2011, 14:26
IMO, Mr. Orr's piece is ironic, not the least because it decries the decline of language and of civility in America in almost the same breath that he quotes Susan Sontag.
"... that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap."
- "Crash" Davis
But on the other hand, she wrote well.
Yep. And Orr can be a buffoon for genuflecting at FDR's so-called Four Freedoms.
But on the other hand, he writes well.
:)
kawaishi
08-10-2011, 17:12
Thanks, Sigba, that was interesting. I can't say that I share the same sentiments as Mr. Orr on other topics but the man is entitled to his politics as am I.
It was a good essay for a freshman English class to read being that half of the class didn't think that they should have to study English. The whole, "I'm gonna be a banker not a writer," train of thought.
I've had a great time bartending while in college, and before that I worked in the Gulf as a Merchant Mariner. In both jobs I've been fortunate enough to work with people from all over the world from all different walks of life. I've learned firsthand that just because someone sounds funny or doesn't speak correctly doesn't in any way mean that he's not intelligent. Nor does a smooth tongued devil an become anymore an angel by his words. However, I believe the value of an education strongly rooted in the basics is immeasurable, and on that point I think Mr. Orr and I can agree.
GratefulCitizen
08-10-2011, 22:52
The more ancient the language, the more complex it tends to be with respect to syntax, case, gender, mood, voice, tense, verb form, and inflection.
The increase in communication technology and mass media seems to have sped up the simplification of language.
Human language is devolving.
Humans probably are, too.
That darn 2nd law of thermodynamics keeps asserting itself.;)
Human language is devolving.
YGBSM.
Richard :munchin
However, I believe the value of an education strongly rooted in the basics is immeasurable, and on that point I think Mr. Orr and I can agree.Are you certain that Mr. Orr's view of "the basics," is the same as yours? Does the essay present a pedagogical philosophy or does it represent a political philosophy? Was its assignment an attempt to teach a lesson about the state of language in America or to make an argument about the state of America?
These questions beg another: Is the purpose of a university to educate or to indoctrinate its students?
Well, maybe the public university I attended knew the right answer after all--despite its reputation as a hotbed of radicalism. In a course many of my classmates and I used to fulfill our English requirement, the readings were by guys with funny names like Thucydides, Herodotus, Homer, Euripides, and Sophocles. (I still have to fight the impulse to giggle when I say/write that last name.:o)
The lectures and discussions did not include commentaries about how inarticulate undergraduates were compared to the 'good old days.' Nor were we told by anyone that what we might learn in the coming years from his colleagues was bunk because it might disagree with his personal and political beliefs.
Instead, in that God awful course--as well as in those offered by other departments and programs (including Peace and Conflict Studies)--my classmates and I were given the tools and the opportunities to make those decisions for ourselves.
Shit. Does this mean I agree with Hansen? I don't think I've done that since 1993.
GratefulCitizen
08-11-2011, 22:36
YGBSM.
Richard :munchin
The more ancient the language, the more complex it tends to be with respect to syntax, case, gender, mood, voice, tense, verb form, and inflection.
More recent languages tend to be less complex in these respects.
"Devolving" was my choice of words.
The orginal statement with regards to complexity can be verified as true or false by whomever is interested.
The original statement with regards to complexity can be verified as true or false by whomever is interested.Since when does the burden of proof for the arguments that one offers rest on the shoulders of others?
Let's say someone argues that Kareem Abdul Jabbar was the greatest basketball player in the history of the Association, and then declines the opportunity to develop that argument. Does saying "prove me wrong if you disagree" make the person offering that argument, or the argument itself, more or less credible?
Utah Bob
08-12-2011, 06:51
YGBSM.
Richard :munchin
LOL
Barbarian
08-12-2011, 07:14
Does saying "prove me wrong if you disagree" make the person offering that argument, or the argument itself, more or less credible?
I think technically it makes the argument less credible along with the individual offering said argument. However, if the one making the opposing argument plays along with the "prove me wrong" it does sort of degrade their own cred. YMMV.
The more ancient the language, the more complex it tends to be with respect to syntax, case, gender, mood, voice, tense, verb form, and inflection.
More recent languages tend to be less complex in these respects.
"Devolving" was my choice of words.
The orginal statement with regards to complexity can be verified as true or false by whomever is interested.
I disagree and would argue that formalized grammatical simplicity (e.g., modern American English as we know it today and not the many informal sub-regional or localized urban dialects) is less an indicator of a language's 'devolving' than one of its 'evolving' with the advancement of and need for clarity in the communication of increasingly complex ideas among the greatest possible numbers of people.
I cannot imagine a pilot's manual for the space shuttle written in Vulgar Latin, or Olde or Elizabethan English. ;)
"America makes prodigious mistakes, America has colossal faults, but one thing cannot be denied: America is always on the move. She may be going to Hell, of course, but at least she isn't standing still."
- e. e. cummings
...and neither is her language.
Richard :munchin
ZonieDiver
08-12-2011, 11:03
Human language is devolving.
Humans probably are, too.
Crap! DEVO was right!
kawaishi
08-12-2011, 15:45
Are you certain that Mr. Orr's view of "the basics," is the same as yours? Does the essay present a pedagogical philosophy or does it represent a political philosophy? Was its assignment an attempt to teach a lesson about the state of language in America or to make an argument about the state of America?
Shit. Does this mean I agree with Hansen? I don't think I've done that since 1993.
BwaaaHAHA, that last line made my day, Sigba! Thanks for that.
I don't know Mr. Orr so I shouldn't have assumed what his opinion of the basics are so that's my mistake. We all know what happens when we ass-ume. :eek:
I think the essay was written as a Mr. Orr's concern as an educator for the poor language skills of college students and the its deeper implications. I would hope that he doesn't connect his opinions of intelligence with political party. If he's writing with his politics in mind I would be dissapointed, but it wouldn't be the first time that I've experienced politics in the classroom.
The assignment was given to our class as an example of why these "boring" English classes are important and how taking them seriously could benefit us. Most of the students were under 20 and considered the core curriculum as a ticket that had to be punched before studying their major. You could say that, while intelligent, our class was uniformed as to why Literature and Language matter to anyone besides an Academic.
I became friends with the teacher after the semester and his own politics, expressed to me after the fact, weren't presented in class. Our assignments were great books and short stories by Hemingway, J. Burroughs, C.S. Lewis, E.M. Roberts, and R.P. Warren among many others. The theme of the class presented in the literature was how the lands in which people live shape their lives ("the spirit of place") and develop their unique regional eccentricities.
I think Richard brought up a good point with the pilots manual. The context of language and the intended audience is very important and obviously dictates how it should be used.
Human language is devolving.
Humans probably are, too.
Hmmm...I have to wonder what Lucy would say to that position. :confused:
Richard :munchin
GratefulCitizen
08-12-2011, 22:07
I disagree and would argue that formalized grammatical simplicity (e.g., modern American English as we know it today and not the many informal sub-regional or localized urban dialects) is less an indicator of a language's 'devolving' than one of its 'evolving' with the advancement of and need for clarity in the communication of increasingly complex ideas among the greatest possible numbers of people.
Well, I guess that's it.
We disagree on what qualifies as devolving vs. evolving.
Well, I guess that's it.
We disagree on what qualifies as devolving vs. evolving.
Devolve - to change gradually for the worse; decline; deteriorate
Evolve - to develop gradually by a process of growth and change
Mae'n ymddangos yn eithaf syml i mi...ac felly mae'n mynd...
Richard :munchin