View Full Version : Pollster: Americans are Pre-Revolutionary
http://www.infowars.com/pollster-americans-are-pre-revolutionary/
Amidst riots in central Europe that have now spread to London and a debt downgrade that threatens to plunge the United States into a double-dip recession, Americans’ lack of confidence in their leadership is so crippled that they are now “pre-revolutionary,” according to pollster Pat Caddell.
A new Rasmussen poll shows that just 17 per cent of Americans believe that the U.S. government has the consent of the governed, an all time low. This dovetails with a record low for Congress’ approval rating, which stands at a paltry 6 per cent, while 46 per cent of Americans think most members of Congress are corrupt, with just 29% believing otherwise.
“The number of voters who feel the government has the consent of the governed – a foundational principle, contained in the Declaration of Independence – is down from 23% in early May and has fallen to its lowest level measured yet,” according to Rasmussen.
The poll was conducted before Friday’s U.S. debt downgrade, indicating that the figures could be even more dire in the aftermath of what some analysts believe is a precursor to a new great depression.
The results of this survey indicate that Americans are now “pre-revolutionary” says pollster Pat Caddell, who described the outcome of the poll as “unprecedented”.
This conclusion follows Caddell’s observation last November that “a sea of anger is churning” amongst Americans who “want to take their country back” and that the nation stood on the brink of a “pre-revolutionary moment”.
A d v e r t i s e m e n t
Caddell’s conclusion that Americans are on the verge of rising up against a system in which they have lost all trust cannot be easily dismissed as partisan rhetoric. Despite working for numerous Democratic presidential candidates, including Jimmy Carter and Joe Biden, Caddell has been a vociferous critic of both Democrats and Republicans on several issues.
Back in early 2008, before the collapse of Lehman Brothers and the start of the financial crisis, we warned that inflation and economic uncertainty would cause a massive social dislocation, which would lead to riots globally. Gerald Celente and others repeated the warning in late 2008. Over the last 18 months, we have now witnessed such scenes across the Middle East and in France, Spain, Greece, Italy and most recently London.
Indeed, the only major western country not to experience significant social unrest since the economic collapse is America, although anecdotal evidence of rising crime and thefts suggests a turning point could be just around the corner.
Should violence plague American streets as a result of a deepening economic crisis, U.S. troops have already been prepared to deal with such a crisis.
As we reported three years ago, U.S. troops returning from Iraq were being re-allocated to occupy America, running checkpoints and training to deal with “civil unrest and crowd control” under the auspices of a Northcom program that revolved around deploying 20,000 active duty troops inside America to “help” state and local officials during times of emergency.
The date set for the completion of this program was 2011, just in time to deal with the “pre-revolutionary” fervor that many fear will now manifest itself in Greece-like mayhem as a result of the fallout from the debt downgrade and America’s slide towards economic collapse.
mojaveman
08-08-2011, 16:55
If things keep getting worse it could very easily happen here and anyone who thinks it can't is naive and delusional. If and when it comes it's going to start in the poor inner city areas and spread elsewhere. Hope everyone is prepared...
If things keep getting worse it could very easily happen here and anyone who thinks it can't is naive and delusional. If and when it comes it's going to start in the poor inner city areas and spread elsewhere. Hope everyone is prepared...
When it comes??? Anybody not believe most big cities are in some type of containment mode now?
greenberetTFS
08-08-2011, 17:57
http://www.infowars.com/pollster-americans-are-pre-revolutionary/
As we reported three years ago, U.S. troops returning from Iraq were being re-allocated to occupy America, running checkpoints and training to deal with “civil unrest and crowd control” under the auspices of a Northcom program that revolved around deploying 20,000 active duty troops inside America to “help” state and local officials during times of emergency.
Has anyone informed Janet Napolitano regarding the above?..........:eek:
Big Teddy :munchin
Indeed, the only major western country not to experience significant social unrest since the economic collapse is America, although anecdotal evidence of rising crime and thefts suggests a turning point could be just around the corner.
Just theft? I believe you mean something like this?
Kansas City police said several hundred youths showed up on the Plaza and some who were causing trouble were asked to leave the shopping and entertainment district. Many of them gathered in Mill Creek Park, where officers heard gunshots about 11:15 p.m.
Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/07/25/3036469/horseback-cops-make-gun-arrests.html#ixzz1UU7o9XD1
or this...
Witnesses' accounts claim everything from dozens to hundreds of young black people beating white people as they left State Fair Thursday night. (http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/126825018.html)
or this.....
McDonald's Employee Took Credit For Filming Brutal Beating In Baltimore Fast Food Joint (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/mcdonalds/mcdonalds-employee-filmed-brutal-beating-640128)
Should violence plague American streets as a result of a deepening economic crisis, U.S. troops have already been prepared to deal with such a crisis.
Hmmmmm..if that is true...who's bidding will they do? Obama and his radical friends or the Constitution and the People?
Ret10Echo
08-08-2011, 18:04
Has anyone informed Janet Napolitano regarding the above?..........:eek:
Big Teddy :munchin
Not exactly a news flash
DSCA. Support provided by U.S. Federal military forces, DoD civilians, DoD contract personnel, DoD Component assets, and National Guard forces (when the Secretary of Defense, in coordination with the Governors of the affected States, elects and requests to use those forces in title 32, U.S.C., status) in response to requests for assistance from civil authorities for domestic emergencies, law enforcement support, and other domestic activities, or from qualifying entities for special events. Also known as civil support.
Directive NUMBER 3025.18 December 29, 2010 here (http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/302518p.pdf)
DOD would do well to pull up Posse Comitatus Act of 18 June 1878 after Reconstuction. As we all know, it specifically limits Army to Federal duties on Federal property. Navy/Marine Corps by DOD directive 1956 and Coast Guard exempt except if subsumed by the Navy as in WWII. At which point, that portion would lose Federal police power authority which they currently have as part of Homeland Security. Those uneducated to the Constitution, would not be considered assets if such a scenario, as has been eluded to, should continue to develope. Having been retired since '92 has given me a new view of our rudderless country. It has strayed way too far left and needs to be guided back on the proper path. An American path.
When it comes??? Anybody not believe most big cities are in some type of containment mode now?
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/08/08/nutter-sets-9pm-weekend-curfew-for-minors-in-center-city-university-city/
You mean something like this?
Team Sergeant
08-08-2011, 19:46
All it's going to take is a spark to lite this candle.
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/08/08/nutter-sets-9pm-weekend-curfew-for-minors-in-center-city-university-city/
You mean something like this?
100% under-reported. As we await our Bernard Hugo Goetz moments.........
The Reaper
08-08-2011, 20:10
DOD would do well to pull up Posse Comitatus Act of 18 June 1878 after Reconstuction. As we all know, it specifically limits Army to Federal duties on Federal property. Navy/Marine Corps by DOD directive 1956 and Coast Guard exempt except if subsumed by the Navy as in WWII. At which point, that portion would lose Federal police power authority which they currently have as part of Homeland Security. Those uneducated to the Constitution, would not be considered assets if such a scenario, as has been eluded to, should continue to develope. Having been retired since '92 has given me a new view of our rudderless country. It has strayed way too far left and needs to be guided back on the proper path. An American path.
There are lots of laws being violated today.
The POTUS and AG believe, IMHO, that they are above the law.
TR
As we await our Bernard Hugo Goetz moments.........
Part of the Goetz Legacy as of 2004
At the time, there were 15,000 felonies a year on average in the subway — more than 40 every day around the nation's largest mass transit system. Twenty years later, there were just 2,760 felonies reported through Nov. 14 — barely eight per day. Murders in the subways, which topped out at 26 in 1990, are at zero for the year.
Subway ridership is at about 4.5 million riders daily; back then, the number of straphangers was in freefall, with one out of every four passengers abandoning the subways between 1965 and 1982. In 1984, ridership was at about 2.7 million per day.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-12-16-goetz_x.htm
I spend a great deal of time in University City and the adjointing mapped area, it should be note that this is the wealth belt of Philadelphia. It is surround by marginally livable neighborhoods that are tinderboxes ready to explode. One best be prepared, most are not.
FWIW, the write up of the poll is available here (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/july_2011/new_high_46_think_most_in_congress_are_corrupt).
I'd find Mr. Caddell's analysis more compelling if he had provided a definition of what constitutions "pre-Revolutionary." (As the blog post in the OP makes a reference to Eastern Europe, this is not an off the cuff question.)
I would also find his analysis more insightful if the data being analyzed included information on Americans' views towards the federal government beyond congress and the major political parties. What about data on how Americans view state and municipal governments, the importance of elections and the reliability of their results, concepts such as the rule of law, trust (public and private), justice (however one wants to define that term), data about basic social services at state, county and municipal levels, the reliability and affordability of public transportation, utilities, and basic foodstuffs? What about data on topics trending heavily on various social media websites, significant upswings in the popularity of 'radical' media, trends in political satire, and the types of pr0nography Americans are watching. (Pr0n that satirized nobles and politicians spiked dramatically in the years leading up to the French Revolution).
My $0.02.
......... What about data on how Americans view state and municipal governments, the importance of elections and the reliability of their results, concepts such as the rule of law, trust (public and private), justice (however one wants to define that term), data about basic social services at state, county and municipal levels, the reliability and affordability of public transportation, utilities, and basic foodstuffs? ..................
I find that interesting in that in getting out and talking to some people I am surprised now and then.
I was talking to a local "conservative" about bus service. I was complaining about the cost of running bus service out to the newly annexed parts of the city. I was like "If people need bus service they should move and live near areas that have bus service". He was like "But Bus service is a basic city service" and I replied "What did they do for transportation before they were annexed?".
Services cost money ..............
I think everyone wants cuts - but just not in anything they use.
1stindoor
08-09-2011, 06:56
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/08/08/nutter-sets-9pm-weekend-curfew-for-minors-in-center-city-university-city/
You mean something like this?
And when parents come to pick up curfew violators, the mayor said, they’ll be told to keep track of the child.
“If you don’t even bother to pick up your child, we are immediately calling the Department of Human Services, and you can then be taken to court for other violations including neglect of your child,” he warned.
Although I agree with this course of action...this is just a lawsuit waiting to happen.
1stindoor
08-09-2011, 07:03
I was talking to a local "conservative" about bus service. I was complaining about the cost of running bus service out to the newly annexed parts of the city. I was like "If people need bus service they should move and live near areas that have bus service". He was like "But Bus service is a basic city service" and I replied "What did they do for transportation before they were annexed?".
Services cost money ..............
I think everyone wants cuts - but just not in anything they use.
I think there's other issues where the "services" and forced annexation are concerned. I agree, the people in those areas used to find other ways to get around town. Likewise they also had other municiple services for trash, water, electricity, etc. However, when the city decided to annex and tax the entire area...the citizens were right to demand busing and other services they were being forced to pay for.
..........the citizens were right to demand busing and other services they were being forced to pay for.
Ah, but that's the key. Bus service is expensive, so is trash collection by city workers - gets into that whole pay and pension thing.
Yes, the folks out in Cliffdale West will have to pay more in taxes - but taxes will now go up on everyone to pay for the expanded services. Government grows and so do the costs.
Not everyone can work for the Government. The Cumberland County School system alone employs just under 7,000 workers. Add in all the other government workers from the cities of Cumberland County plus the rest of the County workers and you'll see government services are the biggest employer in the area after the Military.
Although I agree with this course of action...this is just a lawsuit waiting to happen.
And when parents come to pick up curfew violators, the mayor said, they’ll be told to keep track of the child.
“If you don’t even bother to pick up your child, we are immediately calling the Department of Human Services, and you can then be taken to court for other violations including neglect of your child,” he warned
He doesn't get his target audience at all.
The use of the term parents, as in plural is not appilcable. And I'm sure the DHS - an organization that runs like a well oiled machine will have no problem stepping in and handling all those new "clients".....
He doesn't get his target audience at all.
The use of the term parents, as in plural is not appilcable. And I'm sure the DHS - an organization that runs like a well oiled machine will have no problem stepping in and handling all those new "clients".....
Agreed. A good percentage of these "kids" are already in the DHS system and without parents. Grandma or auntie are attemting to raise them...with negative results. These animals are less "pre-revoluttionary" and more plain punks IMHO. They would not know WTF a revolution was anyway.
1stindoor
08-09-2011, 08:55
Ah, but that's the key. Bus service is expensive, so is trash collection by city workers - gets into that whole pay and pension thing.
Yes, the folks out in Cliffdale West will have to pay more in taxes - but taxes will now go up on everyone to pay for the expanded services. Government grows and so do the costs.
Not everyone can work for the Government. The Cumberland County School system alone employs just under 7,000 workers. Add in all the other government workers from the cities of Cumberland County plus the rest of the County workers and you'll see government services are the biggest employer in the area after the Military.
Oh believe me I agree with you. My wife is an employee of the Cumberland County School system...and at one time (pre big-bang annex) I lived on that side of town. Of course I bought in the county...versus the city...for the lowered taxes, realizing that I was going to have a septic system, no busing, etc. My outrage over the whole annexation issue is the fact that Fayetteville chose to do it without looking at second and third order effects and immediately raised taxes without increases services.
I was lucky, I was able to sell my house, (off of Rim Road), before the area turned into a complete rental zone.
They would not know WTF a revolution was anyway.
But they're wearing 'Mao' t-shirts and 'Che' guerrilla chic hats from Old Navy... :rolleyes:
Richard :munchin
Utah Bob
08-09-2011, 16:18
I'm not sure if I'm pre-revolutionary or pre-menstrual.
Do they feel the same?:confused:
No wait. I'm too old to be pre-menstrual so maybe I'm pre-revolutionary. I always thought i was post-revolutionary.
Dammit this stuff's complicated!:mad:
I'm not sure if I'm pre-revolutionary or pre-menstrual.
Do they feel the same?:confused:
No wait. I'm too old to be pre-menstrual so maybe I'm pre-revolutionary. I always thought i was post-revolutionary.
Dammit this stuff's complicated!:mad:
Pre-menstrual?
PedOncoDoc
08-09-2011, 18:19
Pre-menstrual?
He looks closer to post-menopausal....
Just sayin...:D
http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/Rush-Limbaugh-Obama-riots/2011/10/06/id/413536
Rush Limbaugh contends that President Barack Obama is "setting up riots" through the Occupy Wall Street protests that are spreading across the country.
“There’s no doubt in my mind that the White House is behind this,” he said. “Obama is setting up riots. He is fanning the flames.”
The “anarchists” and “union thugs” who are rallying against corporate greed are Obama’s constituents, Limbaugh said.
“Occupy Wall Street is his base,” he said. “Those are his foot soldiers.”
Calling Obama’s news conference about the American Jobs Act this morning “incompetence on parade,” Limbaugh said the nearly $450 billion spending package has no chance of curing the economic ills.
“Somebody explain to me how spending $450 billion is going to get every bridge repaired, every school repaired, every road repaired,” he said. “This is utter foolishness.”
Obama is “trying to sell the notion that this bill . . . is a magic elixir,” Limbaugh said.
“He’s the one screwing everybody,” he said. “He’s the one happily managing the decline of the United States of America.”
I'm sure Soros is in there somewhere as well, otherwise they probably wouldn't of lasted as long as they have so far, it takes some cash money to keep going like that. Ironic, since Soros is a member of "millionaire's to be taxed" crowd; I wonder what his 1040 looks like, I'm sure the libs aren't too concerned with the amount of loopholes he utilizes, as long as the dough keeps rolling in. :rolleyes:
http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/Rush-Limbaugh-Obama-riots/2011/10/06/id/413536
Rush Limbaugh contends that President Barack Obama is "setting up riots" through the Occupy Wall Street protests that are spreading across the country.
“There’s no doubt in my mind that the White House is behind this,” he said. “Obama is setting up riots. He is fanning the flames.”
The “anarchists” and “union thugs” who are rallying against corporate greed are Obama’s constituents, Limbaugh said.
“Occupy Wall Street is his base,” he said. “Those are his foot soldiers.”
Calling Obama’s news conference about the American Jobs Act this morning “incompetence on parade,” Limbaugh said the nearly $450 billion spending package has no chance of curing the economic ills.
“Somebody explain to me how spending $450 billion is going to get every bridge repaired, every school repaired, every road repaired,” he said. “This is utter foolishness.”
Obama is “trying to sell the notion that this bill . . . is a magic elixir,” Limbaugh said.
“He’s the one screwing everybody,” he said. “He’s the one happily managing the decline of the United States of America.”
I am not surprised considering O has encourage most if not all of the 2011 Worldwide protest. Van Jones and SEUI are in the middle of it. Even the likes of Rush hater Alex Jones believes that Obama and Dems are manipulating this.
From Solyndra to Fast & Furious the wheels are falling off the train, and the only way to maintain what they have achieved is to shut the system down.
Politico is reporting that Law makers are receiving death threats (http://patdollard.com/2011/10/several-new-york-lawmakers-receiving-threats-of-murder-from-obamas-occupy-wall-street-style-class-warriors/).
AND our very own Domestic Terrorist Bill Ayers has thrown in his support (http://billayers.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/occupy-wall-street-collective-statement-of-the-protesters/)
GratefulCitizen
10-06-2011, 17:33
I wish the best of luck to the protester's efforts in driving away all of those rich people and businesses.
I would also invite all those rich people and businesses to move to Arizona.
That's a win-win solution in my book. :D
Oldrotorhead
10-06-2011, 19:38
I find that interesting in that in getting out and talking to some people I am surprised now and then.
I was talking to a local "conservative" about bus service. I was complaining about the cost of running bus service out to the newly annexed parts of the city. I was like "If people need bus service they should move and live near areas that have bus service". He was like "But Bus service is a basic city service" and I replied "What did they do for transportation before they were annexed?".
Services cost money ..............
I think everyone wants cuts - but just not in anything they use.
Just an opinion. If a city annexes area to increase it's tax base it is disingenuous not to offer the same services. Otherwise screw the city and the politicians. IMHO they are just pandering to their non-productive voters.
"Rush Limbaugh contends that President Barack Obama is "setting up riots" through the Occupy Wall Street protests that are spreading across the country."
I'm fairly close to retirement and these people are shitting pretty close to my rice bowl. I don't listen to Rush but I may start keeping a list.
mojaveman
10-06-2011, 21:39
Call me delusional, but I think things would have to get REALLY bad, and even then, it would depend. The American people are generally a reasonable people, they aren't a bunch of people bent on overthrowing the government. You have to worry about a revolution if you have some fixed aristocracy at the top that is either abusing the people or just flat-out doesn't care about the plight of the people. America is a liberal democracy, with a government that is elected and accountable to the people. What would a revolution accomplish? We establish another liberal democracy? I don't think a revolution would appeal to reasonable people. The whole beauty of a liberal democracy is that if you don't like your government, you get to vote in new people every few years, thereby negating any need for a revolution.
The people who usually riot or call for revolution tend to be the ones with a major entitlement mindset, for example the protests in Greece where the people don't want to work more htan thirty hours a week and don't want to retire later than fifty years-old, and so forth. Such protesters are like the adult version of children. In poor areas filled with welfare recipients living off the dole, I could imagine similar protests or riots even, but not from the broader society.
In order for a real revolution to take place, things would have to get bad to the point that the country seemed to be becoming a literal failed state, was literally collapsing. But I do not think things will get that bad.
I won't call you delusional but maybe a bit young. All it took to set Los Angeles ablaze and for scores of people to lose their lives in '92 was a verdict that was read by a jury. I was working in LA during that era and remember the events well. Under the right circumstances civil unrest can come about very easily. Look at what's been happening in the Middle-East. It can all happen here too.
The people who usually riot or call for revolution tend to be the ones with a major entitlement mindset, for example the protests in Greece where the people don't want to work more htan thirty hours a week and don't want to retire later than fifty years-old, and so forth. Such protesters are like the adult version of children. In poor areas filled with welfare recipients living off the dole, I could imagine similar protests or riots even, but not from the broader society.
...kind of like the occupation of wall street?
...or Rosanne Barr calling for reeducation camps and beheadings for rich people that dont want to submit to the redistribution of their wealth?
We may need to redefine what "really bad" means so I know what to look out for since there are already headlines that read "Occupy Wall Street' Protests Turn Violent"
Nothing to see here...
...move along
These are loons that factored strongly in the 2008 election.
These protests are a good sign. They display panic.
BS2004,
We do have a portion of the Upper Tier that abuses the people and it doesn't give a good damn about the plight of the people. Their sole concern is profit and job security.
There is another portion of the Upper Tier who could make a difference, but won't intervene because it might hurt business.
If I am not mistaken the founders set up a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy or a Liberal Democracy for a reason. And I do believe part of that reason was that in a Democracy everyone has a say. Democracy is Mob mentality and the mob can vote itself anything and will eventually vote itself out of existence.
The people who usually riot or call for revolution tend to be the ones with a major entitlement mindset
Really? I know you are joking.
What would a revolution accomplish? We establish another liberal democracy? I don't think a revolution would appeal to reasonable people.
No? Countless reasonable people who thought they did it right have had their pensions and savings looted. They have been lied to, used and abused. The system has failed and continues to fail them. And looting continues as we speak.
Revolution, what better way to bring the crooks to justice in the minds of those that have been used and abused.......and there will be someone out there to feed that high for ulterior motives.
In order for a real revolution to take place, things would have to get bad to the point that the country seemed to be becoming a literal failed state, was literally collapsing. But I do not think things will get that bad.
We are bankrupt, I would call that real bad, I would call that a failure......it is just that we have not admitted it.
Americans do tend to be reasonable people, and most of us are not bent on over throwing our government. And these days, those same reasonable people have a tendency to ignore loony-toon types and so-called fringe elements of society such as communists, etc. So much so that we allow loons like Ward Churchill, Piven, Van Jones and Bill Ayers to walk the earth and lead our children.
Why? We have jobs, We don't have time, It might hurt business...Bill Ayers, Oh he is JUST one person, he can't do any harm....so we ignore and leave for someone else to clean up.
Team Sergeant
10-07-2011, 07:05
BS2004,
We do have a portion of the Upper Tier that abuses the people and it doesn't give a good damn about the plight of the people. Their sole concern is profit and job security.
There is another portion of the Upper Tier who could make a difference, but won't intervene because it might hurt business.
.
Chairman Mao would be proud.....
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1205673790001/occupy-greensboro-movement-meets-in-north-carolina/
Utah Bob
10-07-2011, 08:49
He looks closer to post-menopausal....
Just sayin...:D
Aha! That would explain my mood swings.:eek:
ZonieDiver
10-07-2011, 09:11
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1205673790001/occupy-greensboro-movement-meets-in-north-carolina/
The dude in the burgundy tee shirt near the beginning looks like my brother-in-law! Greensboro is "Commie-Central!
Chairman Mao would be proud.....
Of our bureaucrats, politicians and thieves like Immelt & Blankfein.........yes he would be.
This is a group of mostly leftist looney-toon types I'd say, along with ignorant young people who don't really know any better (the kind wearing designer clothing and carrying iPods, iPads, laptops, etc...while calling for the downfall of capitalism and Wall Street). I do not think it at all represents mainstream America.
-Rosanne Barr is a flat-out communist-socialist though, she too doesn't represent broader America I'd say, just a small very radical fringe
-Ordinary working Americans are not going to riot.
-Also, ordinary Americans are not as dumb as folks like Jay Leno like to show them to be.
I agree with you 100%...
The "occupation" crowd is exactly how you describe them, they are a bunch of modern day hippies "...wearing designer clothing and carrying iPods, iPads, laptops, etc...while calling for the downfall of capitalism"
However, I am also sure that you agree that it was not "mainstream England" that fought against the King during the American Revolution...
People like Jay Leno and Rosanne Barr act as though mainstream America is too stupid to come in out of the rain (and they have something we dont, a media platform that gives them the power of perception.)...
It was not "mainstream Europe" that caused two world wars...
It was not "mainstream Islam" that flew commercial airplanes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon... (at least that's what I have been told)
It was not mainstream America that bombed the Alfred P Murrah building in Oklahoma City...
It is my opinion that the occupation of wall street crowd is the modern day incarnation of the hippies that protested "the man" back in the 60's...
Now those hippies from the 60's are in government jobs fucking up our economy as they practice their favorite forms of corruption.
Where is the occupation of wall street crowd (with their ipods and cell phones) going to be in ten years? The Barrs and Sarandons and Baldwins and Moores and Penns encourage and even glorify this type of behavior. They have the benefit of using their celebrity status to lend credibility to their nutty opinions. They show up at events with an entourage and some TV cameras, they make a speech, incite the crowd, and then they retire to their castles while the peasants continue protest for the cause. (whatever that cause may be)
Again, just my opinion, but in the 60's the country wrote off "hippies" as being a harmless bunch of potheads that would eventually kill themselves off with drug overdoses and syphilis...
...instead, the hippies finished college and gave birth to a new generation of smarter, techno savvy hippies with better drugs. Smelly, dope smoking, misguided hippies that need "the man" to provide them with iPODS and cell phone so they can post to Facebook while they protest "the man"
Just my observation.
I agree with you 100%...
The Barrs and Sarandons and Baldwins and Moores and Penns encourage and even glorify this type of behavior. They have the benefit of using their celebrity status to lend credibility to their nutty opinions.
And Obama understands it. Community agitating on a national level.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2046162/Obama-says-understands-anger-Occupy-Wall-Street-protesters-banks-economy.html
Intel Cop
10-07-2011, 13:31
This link lays out some of the connections between the Occupy protestors and the big money liberals (including Obama):
http://kleinonline.wnd.com/2011/10/02/wall-street-agitators-target-u-s-capitalism-brooklyn-bridge-shut-down-radicals-training-for-confrontation/
It is a shame that we don't see this type of anger/frustration pointed right where it belongs - the government - instead of towards the industry that almost single-handedly keeps NYC going and employs thousands in the region.
Broadsword, I agree with your assertions regarding the average American, but want to add a further point. The regular people who work, take care of their families, and go about their daily lives, maybe slightly affected by the current economy but not put out on the streets, are still incredibly comfortable and don't have to worry about necessities. It is highly unlikely that we would see European-style, large scale riots unless the "average American" began to have problems securing necessities, no matter how connected to and frustrated by the political process we are.
On a side note, I'm hoping to get some overtime from these protestors before they peter out or find themselves evicted from the private park they are currently "occupying". As of yet, I haven't been sent down there.
Who? You mean the heads of large corporations? People can push for additional regulations over corporate CEOs if they want. When have the heads of corporations not been solely concerned with profit and job security? That's why we have a framework of laws and regulations and other forms of oversight and limits on how corporations can finance politicians and so forth. Also, how do they "abuse the people?" That is why we have labor laws, regulations, unions, etc...where needed. Revolution isn't going to fix human nature.
The point is, we have created bureaucracies (FDIC, SEC, FHA, OTS, etc.) as safe guards and our bureaucrats and elected officials do not enforce the laws and regulations we have.
Also remember, the primary purpose of a corporation is to be concerned over profit.
Even at the detriment of the nation best interest or national security?
We don't have some fixed aristocracy at the top like France in the 1700s though.
Not exactly, but we do have at least two sets of standards were as the Rule of Law is selectively enforced. You and I both know that if we ran our business like the Federal Government we would be bankrupt and in court. If we mislead customers and took their money we would end up in Jail. If we don't pay our taxes the IRS will confiscate everything we own and put us in jail without much conversation.....unless you have the means to legally thwart the authorities.
A Constitutional Republic is a liberal democracy. Liberal democracy is representative democracy. It is a democratic system that adheres to classically liberal values (human rights and freedoms, protection of the majority from the minority and the minority from the majority, etc...).
You are at least in the same ball park from what I read, though there may be subtle differences that set them apart. It deserves further investigation on my part.
In modern liberal democracies, that's usually the case from what I have seen. That is why creating a European-style social democracy is dangerous over the long term, because it creates such a mindset among most of the population. Witness Britain recently. In modern America, the people who riot tend to either be very poor people who want to vent (often for reasons of racial tensions, such as the 1960s Watts riots or the 1992 LA riots) or just people with nothing better to do who want to cause trouble (like these Occupy Wall Street protesters charging the police).
Ordinary working Americans are not going to riot. If they are truly disenfranchised with the government, they will hold massive protests and rallies, but not riot. The government then will respond to their concerns or it will get voted out. Now if the government refused to do anything to help the people and was some fixed aristocracy or something and people were starving, then yes, I could see rioting occurring then.
Ordinary working folks are far less likely to riot.....but I do believe they would revolt if pushed, for say not listening to the wishes of the people and when elections fail to provide results........and it has been mentioned on several occasions on this board, by others that we are voting for the lesser of two evils and that increasingly there is little difference our two political parties.
I would still ask them, "What is a revolution going to accomplish?" The system is obviously flawed, so its our job as a people to demand it get fixed (which the Democrats could claim is what they're already trying to do with the massive financial legislation President Obama signed into law). After the 1929 stock market crash, when the banking and financial system was virtually unregulated, it was discovered that massive corruption had occurred. So some heavy-dtuy financial regulation was passed. People were starving during the 1930s during the Great Depression, so various social safety nets were created. Revolution wasn't needed because the government responded to the people.
Obviously we have learned little, in the 80's we had the S&L crisis and 20 years later we have multiple boondoggles.
Part of the reason peoples' pensions and savings were emptied is because of the financial crisis, which itself goes back to the government trying to give everyone a home through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (i.e. governmental policy a good deal caused the problem in the first place).
The government did as you say, but they didn't create the fraud like junk MBS that were sold multiple times to investors.
To some people perhaps, but ordinary Americans do not like extremists (or people they perceive as extremists anyway). Calling for revolution is an extremist tactic. Also, ordinary Americans are not as dumb as folks like Jay Leno like to show them to be. I think the average person with a family is smart enough to raise an eyebrow and say, "I am sick of the people running our government, but how is a revolution going to improve anything?"
People don't like getting screwed either. It is one thing to get screwed and have some recourse, but when individuals like Monzilo and Cassano are living the high life, you are scraping to make ends meet because your nest egg was pilfered and your Government is doing little to nothing to bring the crooks to justice......what is extreme?
I wouldn't say we are bankrupt. We are in some tough economic times, with some big problems, but far from bankrupt.
How many centuries and generations will it take to pay off this debt? Could you operate your business in a similar fashion and keep doors open?
NO.
GratefulCitizen
10-07-2011, 18:43
Michelle Malkin's take:
http://townhall.com/columnists/michellemalkin/2011/10/07/the_miracle_of_icapitalism
These protests remind me of something my grandfather said.
About thirty years ago, he was watching the television, listening to newsmen bemoan the early '80s economy.
He didn't understand it.
Growing up quite poor during the depression, fighting with the 1st Marines in Guadalcanal and Cape Gloucester, and struggling to provide for his family during the post-war recession and inflation must have given him a different perspective.
He just got up from his chair, shook his head, and said: "The problem with people today is they don't have any real problems".
GratefulCitizen
10-07-2011, 19:07
Again, just my opinion, but in the 60's the country wrote off "hippies" as being a harmless bunch of potheads that would eventually kill themselves off with drug overdoses and syphilis...
...instead, the hippies finished college and gave birth to a new generation of smarter, techno savvy hippies with better drugs. Smelly, dope smoking, misguided hippies that need "the man" to provide them with iPODS and cell phone so they can post to Facebook while they protest "the man"
Just my observation.
If they let them assemble in large groups for too long, we might have a bigger problem:
A music festival.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s09e02-die-hippie-die
Back on this...
A Constitutional Republic is a liberal democracy. Liberal democracy is representative democracy. It is a democratic system that adheres to classically liberal values (human rights and freedoms, protection of the majority from the minority and the minority from the majority, etc...).
I believe the two forms of government are similar, but are very different in one way as John Adams defined it ' a constitutional republic as "a government of laws, and not of men.' Where as Democracy, is defined by majority rule.
Democracy (in any form) is not mentioned in either the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution or even the Pledge of Allegiance.
Liberal (Liberalism (is the belief in the importance of liberty and equal rights) Democracy (is a form of government in which all people have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives)
Constitutional (A constitution is a set of fundamental principles or established precedents according to which a state or other organization is governed.[1] These rules together make up, i.e. constitute, what the entity is. When these principles are written down into a single or set of legal documents, those documents may be said to comprise a written constitution.)
Republic (form of government, in which the people, or some significant portion of them, have supreme control over the government)
They may be similar but they are not the same. So somewhere along the line someone decided to pervert or revised the facts as to what form of Government the United States is and/or was intended to be.
Thomas Jefferson said of Democracy, “A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.”
OWS......it may become a mob trying to achieve that 51% majority so it can write itself a paycheck ;)
" Turn the machines back on..."
I wonder what those people would do (along with every sane person in this country) would do if those "evil corporations" just said "hey, you win, we quit, everyone who works for us is fired, we are going to Tahiti and drinking mi-ties till dooms day...". How about a 70% unemployment rate and a GDP of less than 90% of current......... on second thought, that may be exactly what they want...... humm........
I wonder what those people would do (along with every sane person in this country) would do if those "evil corporations" just said "hey, you win, we quit, everyone who works for us is fired, we are going to Tahiti and drinking mi-ties till dooms day...". How about a 70% unemployment rate and a GDP of less than 90% of current......... on second thought, that may be exactly what they want...... humm........
The Atlas Shrugged premise... I'm not sure that the people in question really understand what those 'Greedy' Corporations really provide, or the 'Evil Rich' for that matter. The same groups that bemoan corporations and jobs relocating overseas are the same ones to cry over their profit motive. Look at California, where increased taxation and regulation led to a mass exodus of buisness to Nevada.
I'm not sure that these protests are really representative of the populace writ large anyway. The numbers are too small comparitively. I do agree that they are probably being organized nationally by the same people though. Just my .02.