View Full Version : Handgun Laser questions
Yes, I did a search - I have not seen the issues below discussed, although it may be that my search technique was flawed.
Anyway, let's suppose a handgun with a laser. As I understand it, the positives are:
1. Quick, easy aiming in low light conditions
2. Deterrence factor for anyone who sees the red (or green) dot
3. No need to bring the firearm up to eye level
But on the negative side:
1. The laser is not passive, and the target will see the user
2. The target can dodge or take evasive action
And on the "Hmm" side, there is the scenario of a totally dark environment with no light at all. Tritium sights won't work - the darkness conceals the target. A laser would provide some dispersed light to illuminate the target.
Are infrared lasers the answer? Perhaps. But that implies night vision goggles, which probably is a bit beyond my needs. :D
The laser would probably be something such as a Crimson Trace (grip), or LaserMax (recoil rod) in order to avoid hanging things on the weapon. Of course, wisdom might dictate some other choice...(input always welcome)
In this case, the anticipated role of the weapon is home defense, concealed carry, or some combination.
As always, all thoughts will be appreciated.
Buffalobob
07-30-2011, 20:52
Couple of points that I considered that pertain to the larger lasers that mount below the barrel.
1. Home defense occurs very seldom. So after the pistol has been there for 5 years or so will the batteries still be good. I am not the kind of person who goes around the house every spring daylight savings time changing the smoke alarm batteries nor would I be inclined to periodically check the laser batteries.
2. There are red lasers and green lasers and one of them requires more power from the batteries than the other. The batteries used in lasers are designed for high output not long duration.
3. In the same line of reasoning as #1, many of the lasers have multiple setting on the switch and and so I would have to remember instantly upon awakening exactly how the switch setting worked.
4. I live in a large city and there is a street light as well as our porch light always on at night so it is never so dark you cannot see the target. That is not to say the target won't see you first, but with a laser you are guaranteed the target sees you first. I keep a flash light in the same drawer as the gun if there is a need for it.
5. For the extended months that I camp out, I always have lots of handheld and head mounted lights handy. One night I got into a shooting match with a skunk who just would not stay run off from the food. I held the flashlight in my left hand and fired three full power rounds from the S&W460 with my right hand and I think the third round put bullet fragments into him as he never returned. The S&W just has regular sights and they were adequate with a flashlight. Some people will tell you that muzzle flash will blind you but even with a muzzle brake, I could see just fine as long as I had the flashlight on. Different story, but an interesting point- Two years ago in Utah I got caught about four miles from camp in a rainstorm and had to walk back in in the dark down an old cattle trail. I had three lights with me and one just outright got a bad connection and failed, a second ran low on battery power and I had to go to the third light. Morale of the story is that if you are depending on something that can fail you should depend upon it to fail and plan accordingly.
6. Some of the tritium sights are really good target sights so even if you get a laser they still are there as a really first class falisafe backup system.
I'm faster and much more accurate withOUT a laser on a pistol. Even not bringing the laser to eye level. Even when I completely blacked out my windows, if my bedroom door was open there was some light. Look at Heinie sights. They use a single dot in the back and all you have to do is stack the dots- to me they're easier than the standard three dot night sights.
If you do get a laser, go for the crimson trace over the laser max.
Yep, don't even like the Tritium sights on one of my handguns. bty: I have 1911 with Crimson Trace Grips and not much of a fan.
Off-topic but relevant: For those not as familiar in the outdoors as BB, use extreme caution when shooting at any critter that are known to carry rabies especially in Northern Arizona, Utah, and Nevada. These locations have tested for Pneumonic plague as well. Opening Spinal/Brain tissue, or for the later airways, causes these pathogens to become airborne and are infective. Both are fatal once symptoms develop.
Positive side, Pneumonic plague only takes a few days before you're done ;)
Edit: Crimson trace is hands down the better of the two.
blue02hd
07-31-2011, 15:36
IMO visible lasers are not for the shooter. In a home defense scenario the bright red laser bouncing on a targets chest can be considered escalation of force. Much like the universal sound of a pump shotgun as it is racked into battery, the visible laser's most immediate function is to communicate actions being taken; I am pointing a weapon at you. This nonkinetic technique can be used to assist with crowd control IF the person on the end of the laser reasonably believes that the operator will pull the trigger.
If you rely on a visible laser for targeting you are taking a step or two away from basic fundamentals of pistol craft: You are not looking at your target but rather looking at a red bouncing dot. As mentioned prior, dead batteries, adjustments in point of impact, and communicating your location are the down sides.
All that being said, I rock a Crimson Trace on more than a couple pieces in my inventory. My main house gun shares one with a Sure Fire. My gals SBR has one as well, but in her case it helps with both warning and targeting. If you can spare the extra cabbage to buy and train with one I think you would be satisfied. Just my .02 cents.
Team Sergeant
07-31-2011, 15:42
Forget the laser. Learn to shoot well. The only reason I use a handgun as my primary weapon is the fact I'm highly trained in it's employment. If I were a civilian with a mininum of training I opt for a shotgun as a "home defense" weapon.
No lasers, no lights. I've discussed this before. If you cannot shoot across your bedroom or living room accurately you either suck as a shooter or have a huge house.
Get a pump shotgun, use high brass #6 shot. Keep it next to your bed, next to the phone. It's easier to employ, and with the proper loads will not kill your neighbor when you miss.
Forget the laser. Learn to shoot well. The only reason I use a handgun as my primary weapon is the fact I'm highly trained in it's employment. If I were a civilian with a mininum of training I opt for a shotgun as a "home defense" weapon.
No lasers, no lights. I've discussed this before. If you cannot shoot across your bedroom or living room accurately you either suck as a shooter or have a huge house.
Get a pump shotgun, use high brass #6 shot. Keep it next to your bed, next to the phone. It's easier to employ, and with the proper loads will not kill your neighbor when you miss.
:cool:
Thank you all for the wise advice. I appreciate your thoughts and insights.
And I really will try not to injure the neighbors! :o
Combat Diver
08-02-2011, 02:47
I'll add my two cents to this. I've been issued CTC laser grips for the M1911A1, M9 and SIG 226 down range for years and believe in them. Not all shooting stances take place with you squared to the target. I've engaged out the window of a vehicle with the 1911 whill still driving. Lasers kept me on target. Try clearing under a bed, crawl space where the gun is held out away from your eyesight and you can still aim. You can also aquire them from other awarkd positions ie on your back. Just another tool in the toolbox. Its there if you decide to take advantage of its uses.
CD
frostfire
08-05-2011, 09:03
http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/crimson-trace-lasergrips/
I find it most beneficial as a training aid at various skill levels
http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/shooting-on-the-move/
Team Sergeant
08-05-2011, 09:39
http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/crimson-trace-lasergrips/
I find it most beneficial as a training aid at various skill levels
http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/shooting-on-the-move/
Are you kidding me? (Have you ever wondered why there's no advertising on this website?) Sorry, but Larry is full of shit. But he's paid well for talking it I'm sure.:rolleyes:
"As many of you know I am a consultant for Crimson Trace Lasergrips. I am sure some of you will quit reading right now expecting this to be a “puff piece” talking about how great they are and not admitting any downside. Those of you in that category certainly don’t know me very well. The following is the reality of visible lasers & CTC Lasergrips according to Larry Vickers with no punches pulled.
"
I'll add my two cents to this. I've been issued CTC laser grips for the M1911A1, M9 and SIG 226 down range for years and believe in them. Not all shooting stances take place with you squared to the target. I've engaged out the window of a vehicle with the 1911 whill still driving. Lasers kept me on target. Try clearing under a bed, crawl space where the gun is held out away from your eyesight and you can still aim. You can also aquire them from other awarkd positions ie on your back. Just another tool in the toolbox. Its there if you decide to take advantage of its uses.
CD
This is a great example of why I love this sight- The needs of a civillian vs LEO vs Soldier etc.. If I did anything mentioned in the above quote I would need a lawyer more than a laser.
Team Sergeant
08-05-2011, 11:27
I'll add my two cents to this. I've been issued CTC laser grips for the M1911A1, M9 and SIG 226 down range for years and believe in them. Not all shooting stances take place with you squared to the target. I've engaged out the window of a vehicle with the 1911 whill still driving. Lasers kept me on target. Try clearing under a bed, crawl space where the gun is held out away from your eyesight and you can still aim. You can also aquire them from other awarkd positions ie on your back. Just another tool in the toolbox. Its there if you decide to take advantage of its uses.
CD
Issued by whom?
I have never seen the laser grips being issued by the US Military.......
zoolander6
08-05-2011, 13:58
u still need to apply the fundamentals of marksmanship whether your using iron sight, optics, or lasers. From my experience I only used mine to deter threats not to aquire my threat.
I did like Combat Divers post, and he does make a valid point too.
Combat Diver
08-05-2011, 14:05
Issued by whom?
I have never seen the laser grips being issued by the US Military.......
1/5th and HHC/5th SFGA for the M1911A1 and M9. The SIG 226 was right after I retired with NEK.
CD
zoolander6
08-05-2011, 14:07
1/5th and HHC/5th SFGA for the M1911A1 and M9. The SIG 226 was right after I retired with NEK.
CD
issued in 2005 to be exact:)
Team Sergeant
08-05-2011, 15:39
issued in 2005 to be exact:)
Sounds like someone in the S-4 had some extra money to spend......:munchin
zoolander6
08-05-2011, 18:43
Sounds like someone in the S-4 had some extra money to spend......:munchin
best supply guys i ever served with. Maybe thats because we had a nice budget also, i dunno
tom kelly
08-08-2011, 13:02
Teem Sgt. is correct, Technology is nice BUT it will never replace instruction,training and more training each & every day. Shooting at a target especially one that is initating or returning fire will require immediate action to the opposition's contact with a well planned & rehearsed series of sequential actions that are vital to success in combat. There are trained responses to enemy actions and they represent mental steps followed for offensive and defensive actions in training and combat. Shooting is a Perishable skill and it is imperative to maintain and improve on a defensive shooting standard. There are Professional Soldiers on this site who give classes and instructions on the use of firearms as a defensive tool. Use the search button, Depend on your skill and training not technology...Regard's, Tom Kelly
GratefulCitizen
08-18-2011, 19:20
Get a pump shotgun, use high brass #6 shot. Keep it next to your bed, next to the phone. It's easier to employ, and with the proper loads will not kill your neighbor when you miss.
This is what I recommended to my mother.
She has arthritic fingers, and this is a liability when operating her pistol.
She has #4 shot for her gun.
Is this a significant enough liability to warrant switching to #6 shot?