View Full Version : Oslo bomb kills at least 2
Jul 22, 2011
Oslo bomb kills at least 2
Videos at link below
USA Today online
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/07/blast-in-oslo-blows-out-government-office-building-windows/1?csp=34news
UK Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/22/oslo-bomb-suspicion-islamist-militants
Oslo bomb: suspicion falls on Islamist militantsNorway's role in Afghanistan and its decision to file terrorism charges against a Muslim cleric may explain the Oslo bomb attack
Team Sergeant
07-22-2011, 10:19
I saw that.
I've been racking my brain in an attempt to figure out what insane group could indiscriminately place such a bomb and murder innocent people???
If I was the United States Department of Homeland Security I'd be lining up all the white guys right about now......
Sky News also reports of shooting at a children's camp.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/
Excerpt:
"There are reports that some shots were fired at a youth meeting of the ruling Labour Party in Utoya, an island on the outskirts near the capital.
As many as 700 people were believed to be taking part in the summer camp.
Police have said they are sending anti-terror officers to investigate the incident."
If I was the United States Department of Homeland Security I'd be lining up all the white guys right about now......
Don't forget current and former military types, especially those with strong religious, conservative and family values... :eek:
12 dead in double terrorist attack in Norway as car bomb blast hits government office block and 'blonde Norwegian' man opens fire at youth summer camp
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017709/Oslo-explosion-Huge-bomb-blast-kills-maims-dozens-attack-government-office-block.html#ixzz1SrLnbDLl
Snaquebite
07-22-2011, 12:23
I saw that.
I've been racking my brain in an attempt to figure out what insane group could indiscriminately place such a bomb and murder innocent people???
If I was the United States Department of Homeland Security I'd be lining up all the white guys right about now......
more specifically "middle class" white guys......:rolleyes:
Team Sergeant
07-22-2011, 13:00
News now saying could be 25 dead at the "Youth Camp".
Geez, I wonder what group of sub-humans could be behind murdering children.........
[I'm putting an extra mag in my conceal carry today. Never know when you might run into one of these sub-humans.)
News now saying could be 25 dead at the "Youth Camp".
Geez, I wonder what group of sub-humans could be behind murdering children.........
[I'm putting an extra mag in my conceal carry today. Never know when you might run into one of these sub-humans.)
Prolly a BOLO out for any "white Americans".
Breaking News8:52pm UK, Friday July 22, 2011
Sky News
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/As-Many-As-30-Feared-Dead-In-Norway-Camp-Shooting-After-Bomb-Attack-In-Capital-Oslo-Kills-At-Least-7/Article/201107416035628?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_16035628_As_Many_As_30_Feared_Dead_In_ Norway_Camp_Shooting_After_Bomb_Attack_In_Capital_ Oslo_Kills_At_Least_7
Norway Camp Shooting: 'As Many As 30 Dead'
As many as 30 people are feared dead in a shooting at a Norwegian youth camp after a bomb in the capital Oslo killed at least seven.
Shots were fired by a man dressed as a police officer at a youth meeting of the ruling Labour Party in Utoya - an island on the outskirts near the capital.
An eyewitness reported seeing between 25 and 30 bodies.
Norwegian police said they thought there could also be explosives on the island.
Around 600 people were believed to be taking part in the summer camp - most of whom were teenagers aged between 14 and 18.
Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg had been due to attend the event.
One man was arrested after the incident - he was described as tall and blonde, and spoke fluent Norwegian.
Sky sources said he was shot and wounded during the arrest.
Police said they suspected he was linked to the bombing in Oslo.
UK Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/22/oslo-bomb-suspicion-islamist-militants
Oslo bomb: suspicion falls on Islamist militantsNorway's role in Afghanistan and its decision to file terrorism charges against a Muslim cleric may explain the Oslo bomb attackMr. Beaumont's article is an incredible exercise in editorial self-promotion. At the time of his writing, the suspicions he described were his own.
Mr. Beaumont's article is an incredible exercise in editorial self-promotion. At the time of his writing, the suspicions he described were his own.
SSDD - par for the course these days - all factions.
Prayers out to all innocent Norwegians and swift justice to the perpetrators.
On-going Norwegian news in English.
21:23 Explosion - According to Norwegian sources, the attacker in Utøya is a blonde, 1.85 cm tall man.
The attacker caught at Utøya was spotted by the explosion area minutes before the explosion happened. He was dressed as a police officer both in Oslo and at Utøya, however the police reports that he is not and has never been a part of the police force in Norway.
So far 7 people are reported killed after the bomb explosion and 10 people are killed after the shooting at Utøya where the Labour Party's annual youth camp was being held.
http://www.tnp.no/
Richard :munchin
Could this tall and blonde guy be a recent convert to Islam?
On some other forums I frequent, the theory bouncing around is an internal dissident responsible for both attacks.
The post one person made (who has a contact in the immediate area) is:
She called her mom thirty minutes ago. She's shook up and in shock (she's 15 and she saw a man get killed) but she's alright.
The facts, as they're known right now, are:
- The Utöya killer was probably responsible for the bombings as well. A man matching his description was seen outside the Petrol and Energy Ministry leaving in a van that matches the van witnesses saw the shooter arrive in at Utöya.
- Seven dead in Oslo, nine dead at Utöya at this time.
- Killer is described as a Norwegian man who is previously known by the police.
- This is not suspected to be linked to international terrorism, but a homegrown variety born from a hatred of the Norwegian political system.
- The killer was dressed as a police officer and when he came to Utöya, he called some kids over before he started shooting.
- The bomb was a carbomb and it could have been loaded with as much as 100kg of explosives.
And of course, today is the day my stratfor login went sideways and their support team is being a bit slow in response (they are likely a bit busy right now) so I can't verify any facts through them at this point. More McVeigh/Loughner style and less bin Laden. But we will know more with the suspected shooter in custody.
The camp is a Labour Youth convention in alignment with the current political ruling party.
Mr. Beaumont's article is an incredible exercise in editorial self-promotion. At the time of his writing, the suspicions he described were his own.
I've been reading some other like articles, and the comments for tolerance and understanding left under some of those articles. While I was reading them I remembered some articles form Norway several years ago, before 9-11. Articles that had to do with rapes of Norwegian young women committed by Muslim men. The comments then were for tolerance and understanding, and calling for the Norwegian women to dress less provocatively. What I read was, the women by their choice of dress were provoking the Muslim men into rage and forcing the men to rape them.
I was in Norway in the 70s, seemed like good people. I wish them the best.
I've been reading some other like articles, and the comments for tolerance and understanding left under some of those articles. While I was reading them I remembered some articles form Norway several years ago, before 9-11. Articles that had to do with rapes of Norwegian young women committed by Muslim men. The comments then were for tolerance and understanding, and calling for the Norwegian women to dress less provocatively. What I read was, the women by their choice of dress were provoking the Muslim men into rage and forcing the men to rape them.
I was in Norway in the 70s, seemed like good people. I wish them the best.sf11b_p--
My comment is not about the motivation of the person or persons behind today's attacks nor about Muslims in Norway.
Rather, it is about the ongoing practice of news outlets to blur the lines between solid, fact-base reporting and speculative editorializing. This line is being obliterated in the pursuit of getting a story on-line first to the detriment of getting the story right.
YMMV.
Rather, it is about the ongoing practice of news outlets to blur the lines between solid, fact-base reporting and speculative editorializing. This line is being obliterated in the pursuit of getting a story on-line first to the detriment of getting the story right.
Spot on - remember all those "violent rhetoric" themed stories immediately after Congresswoman Gabby Gifford's shooting...lots of jumping to conclusions about a deranged killer's political motivations. SSDD.
SSDD.As a snarky guy with a historian's skill/mind set, SSDD has a certain appeal.
However, as a civilian who thinks that the Fourth Estate has an important role to play in GWOT (as well as in other issues of the day), I'd like to see the media exercise better judgment.
(Later tonight, I'll join Chucky the Shih Tzu when he howls at the moon.)
...I'd like to see the media exercise better judgment.
From your lips...
ZonieDiver
07-22-2011, 19:21
IMH0, and in this isolated incident only, you totally nailed it Siggy!
(May I call you Siggy?) :D
RAW footage just moments after terror attack in Norway
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8b0_1311357122
For some reason Youtube keeps pulling the video.
More info of interest...
http://patdollard.com/2011/07/terror-in-norway-explosion-rocks-prime-ministers-office-one-dead-but-prime-minister-okay/
More info of interest...
http://patdollard.com/2011/07/terror-in-norway-explosion-rocks-prime-ministers-office-one-dead-but-prime-minister-okay/
Now it will be another Freemason conspiracy!
News here in denmark is reporting the death count as 87 now, appearantly he killed 80 on the island, with 7 dead in the blast. They are also reporting him as a right wing extremist.
Utah Bob
07-22-2011, 21:31
Total of 80 killed at the youth camp.:(
Now it will be another Freemason conspiracy!
That crossed my mind as well, however.....
According to one media source the 'Camp' was more of a liberal hoard pressing the issue of Free Palestine.
The occupation must end, the wall must be demolished and it must happen now (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpolitisk.tv2.no%2Fnyheter%2Fst%25C3 %25B8re-om-israel-palestina-konflikten-%25E2%2580%2593-okkupasjonen-ma-opph%25C3%25B8re-muren-ma-rives-og-det-ma-skje-na%2F)
AUF-leader: - Jens must be tougher against "tender Erna (http://politisk.tv2.no/nyheter/st%C3%B8re-om-israel-palestina-konflikten-%E2%80%93-okkupasjonen-ma-opph%C3%B8re-muren-ma-rives-og-det-ma-skje-na/)
This AUF leader Eskil Pedersen is following the same lead as Obama, Clinton, Ayers, Dohrn, etc. in wanting to sell Israel down the river.
It may turn out the shooter believes he is trying to stop the next Holocaust.
greenberetTFS
07-23-2011, 06:09
Those MFers should have their cojones chopped off after killing those 80 kids!!! :mad::mad::mad:
Big Teddy :munchin
Now up to 91 - 84 killed on the island.
There is also several witness reports of a second shooter, but its unconfirmed so far.
More video
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8fd_1311395602
BBC news online
23 July 2011
Last updated at 10:20 ET
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14259989
Anders Behring Breivik, the 32-year-old suspect in Friday's attacks in Norway, held right-wing views, say police.
Police chief Sveinung Sponheim said his internet postings "suggest that he has some political traits directed toward the right, and anti-Muslim views".
"But whether that was a motivation for the actual act remains to be seen," he told Norwegian broadcaster NRK.
Mr Breivik appears to have created entries on social networking sites such as Facebook and Twitter, though the accounts were set up just days ago on 17 July.
On the Facebook page attributed to him, he describes himself as a Christian and a conservative. The Facebook page is no longer available but it also listed interests such as bodybuilding and freemasonry.
A Twitter account attributed to the suspect has also emerged but it only has one post, which is a quote from philosopher John Stuart Mill: "One person with a belief is equal to the force of 100,000 who have only interests."
In a post in Norwegian in an online forum on December 2009, a user named Anders Behring Breivik claims there is not one country where Muslims have peacefully lived with non-Muslims, stating that instead it has had "catastrophic consequences" for non-Muslims.
Mr Breivik was a member of a Swedish neo-Nazi internet forum called Nordisk, according to Expo, a Swedish group monitoring far-right activity.
Fertiliser
The gunman was described by witnesses who saw him on Utoeya island as tall and blond - and dressed in a police uniform. The image of him posted on Facebook depicts a blond, blue-eyed man.
The Norwegian newspaper Verdens Gang quoted a friend as saying that the suspect turned to right-wing extremism in his late 20s.
He had no military background except for ordinary national service and no criminal record, it seems.
Police say he is co-operating with them, answering questions.
On Saturday it was confirmed that Mr Breivik was previously a member of the right-wing Progress Party (FrP), the second largest party in Norway's parliament.
A statement on the FrP website said he became a member in 1999 and paid his last membership fee in 2004. He was deleted from the member registry in 2006.
He was a member of St Hanshaugen FrP, a local party chapter in a borough of Oslo, in 2001-2003.
He was also a member of the FrP youth wing from 1997 to 2006/2007. He deleted his membership in 2007.
Mr Breivik is believed to have grown up in Oslo, and studied at the Oslo School of Management, which offers degrees and postgraduate courses.
He later appears to have moved out of the city and established Breivik Geofarm, a company Norwegian media is describing as a farming sole proprietorship set up to cultivate vegetables, melons, roots and tubers.
A supply company has come forward to say that it delivered six tonnes of fertiliser to this company in May - an ingredient used in bomb-making.
The FrP statement said "those who knew the suspect when he was a member of the party say that he seemed like a modest person that seldom engaged himself in the political discussions".
round 1,000 young supporters of Norway’s Labour Party were making their way over to Utøya this week, an island in the Tyrifjord that’s often viewed as an incubator for future Labour Party leaders. Detractors call it a breeding ground for a relatively small clique of would-be power mongers.
http://www.newsinenglish.no/2011/07/21/labours-summer-camp-opens/
RE: Post #32 :confused: So? :confused:
Richard :munchin
RE: Post #32 :confused: So? :confused:
Richard :munchin
So? Maybe motivation(s). Straight out of the box the press is putting this in the context of McVay, OKC and White, Christian, Right Wing, Extremist and gun nut.
And considering that our Administration has and is manufacturing and endorsing such prejudice....that we are subjected to a whole host of new intrusions by the day, much of which is associated to such information...I find it of interest.
YMMV
I am sure you will remember this person, and the first reports about him and how of Obama, Schumer, etc. immediately jumped on the Anti-Gun Express calling for new laws, new restrictions, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Lee_Loughner
AM reminded of a certain campus shooting incedent where TR and others offered their expertise of what to do in the situation, i.e....run away, break out a window etc, but runin a zig zag motion, and as fast as possible...If only more folks knew those words of wisdom?
Ya'll SF Men should write a survival book, IMHO. The sheeple could actually learn what to do/ how to survive in life-threatening situations...just a thought.
If ONLY there was one, just one, other carrier of a concealed weapon? Maybe not so many casulties...:rolleyes: Prayers out.
http://news.yahoo.com/norway-police-arrive-90-minutes-firing-began-205033309.html
Norway police arrive 90 minutes after firing began
OSLO, Norway (AP) — Police arrived at an island massacre about an hour and a half after a gunman first opened fire, slowed because they didn't have quick access to a helicopter and then couldn't find a boat to make their way to the scene just several hundred yards (meters) offshore.
The assailant surrendered when police finally reached him, but 82 people died before that.
Survivors of the shooting spree have described hiding and fleeing into the water to escape the gunman, but a police briefing Saturday detailed for the first time how long the terror lasted — and how long victims waited for help.
The shooting came on the heels of what police told The Associated Press was an "Oklahoma city-type" bombing in Oslo's downtown: It targeted a government building, was allegedly perpetrated by a homegrown assailant and used the same mix of fertilizer and fuel that blew up a federal building in the U.S. in 1995.
In all, at least 92 people were killed in the twin attacks that police are blaming on the same suspect, 32-year-old Norwegian Anders Behring Breivik.
A good case for CCW.
Prayers out to the families.
So? Maybe motivation(s). Straight out of the box the press is putting this in the context of McVay, OKC and White, Christian, Right Wing, Extremist and gun nut.
And considering that our Administration has and is manufacturing and endorsing such prejudice....that we are subjected to a whole host of new intrusions by the day, much of which is associated to such information...I find it of interest.
YGBSM. :eek:
I guess Norway coulda used that recent DHS memo on homegrown terrorists.
Richard :munchin
YGBSM. :eek:
I guess Norway coulda used that recent DHS memo on homegrown terrorists.
Richard :munchin
Sure the subjective MIAC report. Or last weeks DHS video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7q3bWEvl7o&feature=player_embedded) that has some up in arms about bias. And maybe Norway's government can take a page out of the Obama playbook by taking advantage of a tragedy or supplying guns to bad guys to get a foot in the door for gun control or some UN Arms Treaty.
We will not likely agree on that, but there is a likelihood we would agree that fingers on the Oslo Tragedy are being pointed before we have the facts and that the person or persons involved regardless of affiliation(s) are murderers.
As with Waco, Ruby Ridge and OKC we will likely never know all the facts and motives, but we were quick to blame which led to much conjecture and conspiracy. And there were then and there are now those that use these same tragedies to press the personal and political agendas.
Such conspiracists will find whatever twisted justification 'they' feel sufficient to do whatever it is they're going to do - always have, always will - but they certainly don't need the aid of the blogosphere to further their perverse ideations.
This guy sees himself as a Holger Danske sort of national savior - I don't.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
mojaveman
07-23-2011, 21:52
A terrible tragedy.
And to think that there is no capital punishment in Norway.
dr. mabuse
07-24-2011, 07:35
Per a Fox news article.
" Police labeled the attacks as acts of terrorism punishable by up to 21 years in prison according to Norwegian law, The Wall Street Journal reported. Norway does not have the death penalty."
If one has plans for committing mass murder...
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=89a_1311444384
http://www.wral.com/news/national_world/world/story/9901187/
The top link contains a video which Briekvik supposedly posted to his friends before the incident. The video is quite thought provoking and appears to be well made. You can't read the whole thing without making it full screen and pausing occassionally though. The link also contains what is supposed to be his manifesto. I have not downloaded and read it yet. I am not sure about the security of the download sites. I may try to find it elsewhere. It is supposed to be 1500 pages.
Team Sergeant
07-24-2011, 11:44
YGBSM. :eek:
I guess Norway coulda used that recent DHS memo on homegrown terrorists.
Richard :munchin
This individual doesn't rate as a terrorist, he does rate as a spineless and insane coward right up there with jared lee loughner.
Spineless and insane cowards.
I read an article that jared lee loughner now spends most of his days in prison crying in his cell. Let's hope this individual spends the rest of his sub-human life in a 5X5 jail-cell.
Some additional details in this story.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/07/23/20110723norway-explosion-shooting-ON.html
Norway gunman kept firing for 1½ hours on island
by Ian MacDougall and Louise Nordstrom - Jul. 23, 2011 11:28 PM
Associated Press
Excerpts:
OSLO, Norway - Police arrived at an island massacre about 1 1/2 hours after a gunman first opened fire on Friday, slowed because they didn't have quick access to a helicopter and then couldn't find a boat to make their way to the scene just several hundred yards offshore.
The assailant surrendered when police finally reached him, but 82 people died before that.
Survivors of the shooting spree have described hiding and fleeing into the water to escape the gunman, but a police briefing Saturday detailed for the first time how long the terror lasted - and how long victims waited for help.
The shooting came on the heels of what police said was an "Oklahoma City-type" bombing in Oslo's downtown: It targeted a government building, was reportedly perpetrated by a home-grown assailant and used the same mix of fertilizer and fuel that blew up a federal building in the U.S. in 1995.
In all, at least 89 people were killed in the twin attacks Friday that police are blaming on the same suspect, 32-year-old Norwegian Anders Behring Breivik.
"He has confessed to the factual circumstances," Breivik's defense lawyer, Geir Lippestad, told public broadcaster NRK. Lippestad said his client had also made some comments about his motives.
"He's said some things about that, but I don't want to talk about it now," the lawyer told NRK.
Norwegian news agency NTB said the suspect wrote a 1,500-page manifesto before the attack in which he attacked multiculturalism and Muslim immigration. The manifesto also described how to acquire explosives and contained pictures of Breivik, NTB said. Oslo police declined to comment on the report.
Several victims "had pretended they were dead to survive," Berzingi said. But after shooting the victims with one gun, the gunman shot them again in the head with a shotgun, he said.
An hour and a half / 92+ lives / 21 years
I would wait and see what the Norwegian legalists have to say about all this before jumping to any spurious conclusions as to what they may or may not decide to do here.
Richard :munchin
Roguish Lawyer
07-24-2011, 19:28
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903999904576465801154130960.html?
I would wait and see what the Norwegian legalists have to say about all this before jumping to any spurious conclusions as to what they may or may not decide to do here.
Richard :munchin
If that was directed at me - I fail to see the conclusion - never mind a spurious conclusion - that I may or may not have jumped to in my immediate post above.
The 21 years was reported to be the penalty in Norway. I have no direct information whether that is an accurate number nor whether the death toll actually stands at 92 nor whether the killer took shots for an hour and a half before surrender.
Why Norway's worst mass killer will be given a jail sentence of only 21 years... and could be on weekend parole in seven
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 11:29 PM on 24th July 2011
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2018378/Norways-worst-mass-killer-21-years-jail-most.html#ixzz1T4sZicn3
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2018378/Norways-worst-mass-killer-21-years-jail-most.html
But, I accept the sharp shot.
Utah Bob
07-24-2011, 19:39
Cut and pasted a lot of his manifesto direct from the Unibomber.
Diseased minds think alike.
I've never met anyone who had a manifesto. If I did I'd watch him reeeal closely.
I've never met anyone who had a manifesto. If I did I'd watch him reeeal closely.
Don't let the DHS know there is an SF Creed. :rolleyes:
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
If that was directed at me - I fail to see the conclusion -
And what happens if they decide to charge him with 90+ murders vice the reported terrorist laws? :confused:
Much like the post-911 situation, I don't think it'll be a "cut-and-dry" situation and would wait to see what the legalists - and a pissed off population - decide to do.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
And what happens if they decide to charge him with 90+ murders vice the reported terrorist laws? :confused:
Much like the post-911 situation, I don't think it'll be a "cut-and-dry" situation and would wait to see what the legalists - and a pissed off population - decide to do.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
Richard, you know, I'm really not sure - but in all fairness - I am sure that I did not reach any conclusions yet - and certainly not a spurious one.
I do hope they leave the dirt bag alone with the victim's families for an hour and a half...but it could be 2 hours...maybe 3...that's not really the point is it?
Situations like these are rarely cut and dry when it comes to the courts and murder trials - add the nuances of a foreign (to most of us) legal system and you just can't predict - but that is a topic for another discussion.
Richard, you know, I'm really not sure - but in all fairness - I am sure that I did not reach any conclusions yet - and certainly not a spurious one.
This one yours?
An hour and a half / 92+ lives / 21 years
Richard :munchin
This one yours?
Originally Posted by tonyz
An hour and a half / 92+ lives / 21 years
Richard :munchin
Yes, that's a title to my post...
The post below is mine, too - it still escapes me to find MY conclusion in any post regarding Norwegian sentencing in this case. I really have no idea what the killer will receive as a sentence.
THAT'S MY conclusion - at least the one that's fit to print regarding this matter.
I do know that that some are also inclined to believe that sentencing may POSSIBLY be limited - see below. Let's hope not.
Why Norway's worst mass killer will be given a jail sentence of only 21 years... and could be on weekend parole in seven.
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 11:29 PM on 24th July 2011
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1T4sZicn3
"Norway's mass killer faces a maximum jail term of just 21 years. Astonishingly, that is the longest sentence available to judges in Norway's benevolent justice system. In England and Wales, repeat killers can be told they will die behind bars with a 'whole life' tariff, and killers who use a knife or gun face minimum terms of 25 and 30 years.
But in Norway, few killers serve more than 14 years. Even those given the maximum term can be released after two-thirds of their sentence, and many are given unsupervised weekend parole after just one third. Only in exceptional cases, if officials consider a prisoner is still highly dangerous, will sentences be extended for additional five-year blocks.
Norway’s incarceration rates – the number of people jailed per head of population – are among the lowest in Europe. Some 66 are behind bars for every 100,000 citizens, less than half the figure for the UK.
The age of criminal responsibility is 15, compared with ten in England and Wales.
Lack of jail spaces means some offenders can wait weeks or even months before being locked up.
Many spend this time at home, often in the heart of the communities where they committed their crimes.In one notorious case, two boys who killed a five-year-old girl were back at school within two weeks.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2018378/Norways-worst-mass-killer-21-years-jail-most.html#ixzz1T520ra4R
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903999904576465801154130960.html?A n irony of this editorial is that it does more to undermine Mr. Bawer's intellectual reputation than did Breivik did by using Bawer a source.
Mr. Bawer writes Later on Saturday came news of a 1,500-page manifesto, entitled "2083: A European Declaration of Independence," that Breivik had recently written and posted online. The first half, in which he indicts the European cultural elite for permitting Islam to take root in Europe, makes it clear that he is both highly intelligent and very well read in European history and the history of modern ideas. Mr. Breivik's summation of "the history of modern ideas," and Mr. Bawer's understanding of that history are compromised by a single question. If multiculturalism is a direct outgrowth of Marxist political philosophy, then why have the most determined and articulate critiques of that concept come from materialist scholars such as Terry Eagleton and Frederic Jameson?
Yes, that's a title to my post...
And where in the post (#44) you cited under your heading does it make such a conclusion? :confused:
It doesn't, therefore...
Richard :munchin
Roguish Lawyer
07-24-2011, 20:59
If multiculturalism is a direct outgrowth of Marxist political philosophy, then why have the most determined and articulate critiques of that concept come from materialist scholars such as Terry Eagleton and Frederic Jameson?
LOL, if you don't think multiculturalism is a direct outgrowth of Marxist political philosophy, you obviously haven't read any primary sources. It always cracks me up when academics talk about how "important" they think each other are. What a load of crap. :rolleyes:
And where in the post (#44) you cited under your heading does it make such a conclusion? :confused:
It doesn't, therefore...
Richard :munchin
...therefore the number 21 came from reading mutiple sources - like the one cited.
Glad you asked - it's not unusual for folks to jump to incorrect conclusions about other folks statements - seems to happen regularly - happy to get the truth out about MY conclusions - and pleased to post that Daily Mail article.
From the little that I have read, the Norwegian criminal justice system tends to focus on rehabilitation rather than punishment - thus it might be enlightening for some to understand that sentencing discussions MAY possibly involve lesser terms than we in the states might consider appropriate for such a heinous crime.
It always cracks me up when academics talk about how "important" they think each other are. What a load of crap. :rolleyes:
LOL - academics too often regard disagreeing with one another as equivalent to sportboinking. ;)
LOL, if you don't think multiculturalism is a direct outgrowth of Marxist political philosophy, you obviously haven't read any primary sources. It always cracks me up when academics talk about how "important" they think each other are. What a load of crap. :rolleyes:RL--
With respect, I think you're confusing geographic and temporal proximity for intellectual influence. I also believe that you may be mistaking response for iteration, and unintended consequences for a master plan. I also think you're giving short shrift to the notion that intellectual projects frequently deviate from their initial political objectives.
Insofar as your appraisal of the conversations that academics are having amongst themselves, I submit that such a position will prove the single greatest impediment to the goal of "taking back" the Ivory Tower from the "left."
By dismissing those conversations as not being "important," one misses opportunities to understand, to explore, and to exploit the divisions among the opposition. (FYI, one of the greatest conflicts taking place within certain hallways of Ivory Tower, including at a certain university in Southern California is between materialist-minded scholars who came of age during the 1960s and the post-structuralist and post modernist scholars that followed.)
In response to your allegations, I ask in reply:
Precisely which primary sources do you have in mind?
Are you suggesting that the development of Marxist political philosophy did not extend to the Frankfurt School or continue with the intellectual descendants of that school?
Do you have primary source evidence that advocates of post structuralism and post-modernism have been playing a double game all along?
Are you suggesting that the British Marxists did not influence the way Germans studied their history after the Second World War and the resulting historiography has not shaped German politics to this day?
Roguish Lawyer
07-24-2011, 23:49
Sigaba:
I am not sure whether to be puzzled or amused by your response. You repeatedly try to start these kinds of discussions here, but other than perhaps nmap I don't think anyone is remotely interested. I am certainly not. I will, however, give you a very broad summary of where I'm coming from.
Western society is based on natural rights concepts from people like Aristotle, Hobbes and Locke. These concepts presuppose that there is such a thing as right and wrong, and that you can identify those things through reason. Alternatively, of course, there is truth from God which is revealed or whatever.
Beginning with Hegel and Marx, and then brought to more of a conclusion by Heidegger and Nietzsche, German thinkers and their relativism effectively destroyed the concepts of right and wrong. The same philosophy underlying "diversity," "multiculturalism" and the like makes it impossible to condemn all kinds of behavior using consistent theories. For example, if the fact that sexual behavior occurs in nature (or in other cultures or by people "born that way") makes something OK, it becomes quite difficult to condemn things like consensual incest, consensual bestiality or cannibalism. Similarly, who are we to condemn North Korea or Iran under this kind of thinking?
I took a few minutes to see if I could find something for you to read on this topic and found this: http://www.claremont.org/publications/pubid.8/pub_detail.asp I'm sure you disagree and would enjoy writing a long essay with footnotes, but I'm not interested in reading it and don't intend to do so or to respond.
You're welcome to be here, but I must say that I don't really understand why you are. I'm sure there are message boards full of academics who like using lots of big words that actually convey next to nothing of significance. Have a nice day.
It always cracks me up when academics talk about how "important" they think each other are. What a load of crap. :rolleyes:
I also find it of great interest when one starts to believe their own press.
"Quick, let's get another pole, (or is it poll?).
Yes, that's a title to my post...
The post below is mine, too - it still escapes me to find MY conclusion in any post regarding Norwegian sentencing in this case. I really have no idea what the killer will receive as a sentence.
THAT'S MY conclusion - at least the one that's fit to print regarding this matter.
I do know that that some are also inclined to believe that sentencing may POSSIBLY be limited - see below. Let's hope not.
Why Norway's worst mass killer will be given a jail sentence of only 21 years... and could be on weekend parole in seven.
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 11:29 PM on 24th July 2011
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1T4sZicn3
"Norway's mass killer faces a maximum jail term of just 21 years. Astonishingly, that is the longest sentence available to judges in Norway's benevolent justice system. In England and Wales, repeat killers can be told they will die behind bars with a 'whole life' tariff, and killers who use a knife or gun face minimum terms of 25 and 30 years.
But in Norway, few killers serve more than 14 years. Even those given the maximum term can be released after two-thirds of their sentence, and many are given unsupervised weekend parole after just one third. Only in exceptional cases, if officials consider a prisoner is still highly dangerous, will sentences be extended for additional five-year blocks.
Norway’s incarceration rates – the number of people jailed per head of population – are among the lowest in Europe. Some 66 are behind bars for every 100,000 citizens, less than half the figure for the UK.
The age of criminal responsibility is 15, compared with ten in England and Wales.
Lack of jail spaces means some offenders can wait weeks or even months before being locked up.
Many spend this time at home, often in the heart of the communities where they committed their crimes.In one notorious case, two boys who killed a five-year-old girl were back at school within two weeks.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2018378/Norways-worst-mass-killer-21-years-jail-most.html#ixzz1T520ra4R
There is something known as 'forvaring' or in english 'custody' were they access the threat level of the convict and if they still consider him to be a threat they can keep him in jail.
Sigaba:
I am not sure whether to be puzzled or amused by your response. You repeatedly try to start these kinds of discussions here, but other than perhaps nmap I don't think anyone is remotely interested. I am certainly not. I will, however, give you a very broad summary of where I'm coming from.
Western society is based on natural rights concepts from people like Aristotle, Hobbes and Locke. These concepts presuppose that there is such a thing as right and wrong, and that you can identify those things through reason. Alternatively, of course, there is truth from God which is revealed or whatever.
Beginning with Hegel and Marx, and then brought to more of a conclusion by Heidegger and Nietzsche, German thinkers and their relativism effectively destroyed the concepts of right and wrong. The same philosophy underlying "diversity," "multiculturalism" and the like makes it impossible to condemn all kinds of behavior using consistent theories. For example, if the fact that sexual behavior occurs in nature (or in other cultures or by people "born that way") makes something OK, it becomes quite difficult to condemn things like consensual incest, consensual bestiality or cannibalism. Similarly, who are we to condemn North Korea or Iran under this kind of thinking?
I took a few minutes to see if I could find something for you to read on this topic and found this: http://www.claremont.org/publications/pubid.8/pub_detail.asp I'm sure you disagree and would enjoy writing a long essay with footnotes, but I'm not interested in reading it and don't intend to do so or to respond.
You're welcome to be here, but I must say that I don't really understand why you are. I'm sure there are message boards full of academics who like using lots of big words that actually convey next to nothing of significance. Have a nice day.RL--
Notwithstanding the tone of your post, the fact is that you and I are on the same side on most issues, and that we are trying to achieve similar objectives. The key difference is that we pursue these objectives through starkly different means and with different sensibilities.
Insofar as my presence on this BB and my posts, others can decide for themselves the purpose of the former and the utility of the latter--footnotes and all.
MOO, your remark that the words of academics "actually convey next to nothing of significance" is overly broad. Many of the current topics of debate in American politics, culture, and society have been subjects of discussion among academics for decades.
But then, maybe you have a point. Why not play 'dog pile on the eggheads' while striving to re-invent the wheel? Verily, both practices have worked well thus far.
Roguish Lawyer
07-25-2011, 02:24
RL--
Notwithstanding the tone of your post, the fact is that you and I are on the same side on most issues, and that we are trying to achieve similar objectives. The key difference is that we pursue these objectives through starkly different means and with different sensibilities.
Insofar as my presence on this BB and my posts, others can decide for themselves the purpose of the former and the utility of the latter--footnotes and all.
MOO, your remark that the words of academics "actually convey next to nothing of significance" is overly broad. Many of the current topics of debate in American politics, culture, and society have been subjects of discussion among academics for decades.
But then, maybe you have a point. Why not play 'dog pile on the eggheads' while striving to re-invent the wheel? Verily, both practices have worked well thus far.
You don't get it. This is a thread about terrorist attacks in Norway. That's the kind of stuff 99.9% of the people on the board come here to discuss. You went off on a silly tangent about Marxist political philosophy (mind you, not one relevant to any SF mission) that no one here cares about. That's the reason for my tone. It's like an 18B walking into a Foucault seminar, interrupting the discussion and telling everyone why he's a 1911 man.
Like I said, you're welcome to stay here and post whatever you want as long as you follow the rules, but I really don't get why you're here. And your comment about academics already knowing all the answers is arrogant and wrong.
There is something known as 'forvaring' or in english 'custody' were they access the threat level of the convict and if they still consider him to be a threat they can keep him in jail.
Yes, I have read something like that - including the ability to add 5 years (or something similar) at the time of the natural expiration of a sentence, i.e., the 21 years cited in some articles. And, that such 5 additional years can be added ad infinitum should the the convict be considered a continual threat.
This tradgedy will be with us for some time and may expose those of us on this side of the pond to a somewhat different philosophy of incarceration - rehabilitation versus punishment. Those debates (rehabilitation versus punishment) exist here regarding our current criminal justice system.
We will watch with interest for a variety of reasons.
Thank you for the information.
P.S. it did not take much time to find an article that shapes some of the differences in culture regarding Norway's treatment of criminals generally. It remains to be seen how this very tragic matter with Breivik turns out from a legal perspective.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1986002,00.html#ixzz1T6hHwaQN
Excerpt:
By the time the trumpets sound, the candles have been lit and the salmon platters garnished. Harald V, King of Norway, enters the room, and 200 guests stand to greet him. Then a chorus of 30 men and women, each wearing a blue police uniform, launches into a spirited rendition of "We Are the World." This isn't cabaret night at Oslo's Royal Palace. It's a gala to inaugurate Halden Fengsel, Norway's newest prison.
Ten years and 1.5 billion Norwegian kroner ($252 million) in the making, Halden is spread over 75 acres (30 hectares) of gently sloping forest in southeastern Norway. The facility boasts amenities like a sound studio, jogging trails and a freestanding two-bedroom house where inmates can host their families during overnight visits. Unlike many American prisons, the air isn't tinged with the smell of sweat and urine. Instead, the scent of orange sorbet emanates from the "kitchen laboratory" where inmates take cooking courses. "In the Norwegian prison system, there's a focus on human rights and respect," says Are Hoidal, the prison's governor. "We don't see any of this as unusual."
(See the top 10 crime stories of 2009.)
Halden, Norway's second largest prison, with a capacity of 252 inmates, opened on April 8. It embodies the guiding principles of the country's penal system: that repressive prisons do not work and that treating prisoners humanely boosts their chances of reintegrating into society. "When they arrive, many of them are in bad shape," Hoidal says, noting that Halden houses drug dealers, murderers and rapists, among others. "We want to build them up, give them confidence through education and work and have them leave as better people." Countries track recidivism rates differently, but even an imperfect comparison suggests the Norwegian model works. Within two years of their release, 20% of Norway's prisoners end up back in jail. In the U.K. and the U.S., the figure hovers between 50% and 60%. Of course, a low level of criminality gives Norway a massive advantage. Its prison roll lists a mere 3,300, or 69 per 100,000 people, compared with 2.3 million in the U.S., or 753 per 100,000 — the highest rate in the world.
(See the world's most influential people in the 2010 TIME 100.)
Design plays a key role in Halden's rehabilitation efforts. "The most important thing is that the prison looks as much like the outside world as possible," says Hans Henrik Hoilund, one of the prison's architects. To avoid an institutional feel, exteriors are not concrete but made of bricks, galvanized steel and larch; the buildings seem to have grown organically from the woodlands. And while there is one obvious symbol of incarceration — a 20-ft. (6 m) concrete security wall along the prison's perimeter — trees obscure it, and its top has been rounded off, Hoilund says, "so it isn't too hostile."
(See the 25 crimes of the century.)
The cells rival well-appointed college dorm rooms, with their flat-screen TVs and minifridges. Designers chose long vertical windows for the rooms because they let in more sunlight. There are no bars. Every 10 to 12 cells share a living room and kitchen. With their stainless-steel countertops, wraparound sofas and birch-colored coffee tables, they resemble Ikea showrooms.
Halden's greatest asset, though, may be the strong relationship between staff and inmates. Prison guards don't carry guns — that creates unnecessary intimidation and social distance — and they routinely eat meals and play sports with the inmates. "Many of the prisoners come from bad homes, so we wanted to create a sense of family," says architect Per Hojgaard Nielsen. Half the guards are women — Hoidal believes this decreases aggression — and prisoners receive questionnaires asking how their experience in prison can be improved.
There's plenty of enthusiasm for transforming lives. "None of us were forced to work here. We chose to," says Charlott-Renee Sandvik Clasen, a music teacher in the prison and a member of Halden's security-guard chorus. "Our goal is to give all the prisoners — we call them our pupils — a meaningful life inside these walls." It's warmth like that, not the expensive television sets, that will likely have the most lasting impact.
Norway mass killer jeered on way to court hearing
http://news.yahoo.com/norway-mass-killer-wants-time-court-tell-why-014056029.html
Reuters online – 40 mins ago
OSLO (Reuters) - Anders Behring Breivik, who killed at least 93 people in a bomb attack and shooting rampage in Norway, arrived at an Oslo courtroom for a closed custody hearing on Monday to jeers from an angry crowd.
"Get out, get out!" shouted Alexander Roeine, 24, banging on the car he believed had brought Breivik to Oslo District Court. "Everyone here wants him dead," he said, adding that he knew one of the dead and three survivors of Friday's attacks.
According to his lawyer, Breivik had wanted to explain why he perpetrated modern-day Norway's worst peace-time massacre, but a judge ruled that the hearing would be a closed session.
"We want to see him really hurt for what he did," said Zezo Hasab, 32, among a crowd who gave Breivik a furious reception.
Norway's first glimpse of the killer was a shaky, long-range television picture of a man with close-cropped blond hair and a red top, as he got into a police jeep after the hearing.
He appeared calm and did not try to communicate with journalists standing across the road from an underground garage where he was brought down from the courtroom.
He sat unmovingly in the back seat, with a policeman beside him, his head tilted slightly back, before being whisked away.
Prosecutors wanted Breivik detained for an initial eight weeks -- normally this is in solitary confinement with no access to news, letters or visitors, except a lawyer. His custody can be extended before his trial on terrorism charges.
The judge was due to announce his decision later on Monday.
SILENCE FOR THE DEAD
Norwegians held a minute's silence for the victims of the self-confessed killer with an anti-immigration agenda.
"In remembrance of the victims ... I declare one minute's national silence," Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg said on the steps of Oslo University, flanked by Norway's king and queen.
The silence stretched to five minutes as thousands more stood around a carpet of flowers outside nearby Oslo cathedral. Only squawking seagulls and a barking dog broke the silence.
Cars stopped in the streets and their drivers got out and stood motionless as traffic lights changed from red to green.
"This is a tragic event to see all these young people dying due to one man's craziness. It is important to have this minute of silence so that all the victims and the parents of the families know that people are thinking about them," said mechanic Sven-Erik Fredheim, 36, shortly before the silence.
Breivik planted a bomb on Friday outside Stoltenberg's Oslo office which killed seven, then drove to the island of Utoeya and shot dead 86 at a youth camp of the ruling Labour Party.
The 32-year-old declared in a rambling 1,500-page manifesto posted online shortly before the massacre that he was on a self-appointed mission to save Europe from what he saw as the threats of Islam, immigration and multi-culturalism.
"He has been politically active and found out himself that he did not succeed with usual political tools and so resorted to violence," Lippestad told TV2 news.
The judge's decision to close the hearing to the public followed an outcry from Norwegians enraged at the possibility that Breivik would be allowed a public platform for his views.
A Facebook group called "Boycott Anders Behring Breivik" carried the message: "He has planned this stage, to get propaganda. Do NOT let him get that freedom...Boycott all media describing the Norwegian terrorist and his beliefs."
Police have said a trial could be a year away. The maximum jail term in Norway is 21 years, although that can be extended if there is a risk of repeat offences.
"In theory he can be in jail for the rest of his life," said Staale Eskeland, professor of criminal law at the University of Oslo.
Breivik had asked to wear a uniform in court, but Lippestad, his lawyer, said he did not know what type. The killer was dressed as a policeman during his shooting spree.
Breivik has not served in the armed forces but in some of the pictures he posted on the Internet before his killing spree he was dressed in a military-style outfit.
SAVING EUROPE
That he surrendered to police when finally confronted on the tiny island of Utoeya after his shooting spree underlines his desire to secure a public platform.
Breivik wrote in his manifesto, posted hours before his attacks, that if he survived his assault and was arrested, this would "mark the initiation of the propaganda phase".
Norwegian newspapers focused on the victims as shock turns to mourning, giving chilling new accounts of the island massacre and focusing on acts of bravery which saved lives.
The main broadsheet Aftenposten led with "Sorrow unites Norway" and printed a picture of a central Oslo square filled with flowers and lit candles in remembrance of the dead.
Daily Dagsavisen asked "Why didn't you come earlier?" citing screams by youth as police arrived on Utoeya island on Friday -- an hour after they were notified of the shooting.
Police believe Breivik acted alone after losing faith in mainstream parties, even those that have gained popularity and parliamentary seats on anti-immigration policies in otherwise liberal, tolerant European nations, including affluent Norway.
The attack was likely to tone down the immigration debate ahead of September local elections, analysts said, as parties try to distance themselves from Breivik's beliefs and reinforce Norwegians' self-image as an open, peaceful people.
Norway's immigrant numbers nearly tripled between 1995 and 2010 to almost half a million. The sense that many were drawn by Norway's generous welfare handouts helped spur the growth of the Progress Party which became Norway's second biggest in parliament after the 2009 election on a largely anti-immigration platform.
SCHEMING TO "RESIST"
Breivik was once a member of the party, but left complaining it was too politically correct. It was then he began scheming to "resist", burying ammunition more than a year ago, weight-lifting, storing up credit cards and researching bomb-making while playing online war games.
After three months of laboriously pounding and mixing fertilizer, aspirin and other chemicals on a remote farm, Breivik drove a hire car packed with the results to the center of Oslo on Friday, triggering the device outside government offices, killing seven and shattering thousands of windows.
He then drove to Utoeya, 45 km (28 miles) away. Dressed as a policeman, he calmly shot down Labour Party youngsters at a summer camp. His terrified victims tried to hide under beds or in the woods. Some leapt into the lake to escape.
"This is going to be an all-or-nothing scenario," Breivik wrote in his English-language online journal on the morning of the attack. "First coming costume party this autumn, dress up as a police officer. Arrive with insignias:-) Will be awesome as people will be very astonished:-)."
A surgeon at a hospital that treated 35 of the wounded said Breivik may have used "dum-dum" bullets for maximum damage.
"These bullets don't explode inside the body but fragment into pieces more quickly than other bullets," Colin Poole, chief surgeon of the Ringerike district hospital, told Reuters.
While Breivik was stalking his prey on Utoeya, it took police a full hour to get a team of elite forces to the island after one boat, overloaded with officers and equipment, was forced to stop when it began to take on water.
Norwegian television managed to charter a helicopter and filmed the killer before the police showed up. When the armed team did arrive, Breivik gave himself up without a fight.
(Additional reporting by Walter Gibbs, Anna Ringstrom, Henrik Stoelen, Terje Solsvik, Patrick Lannin, Johan Ahlander, Wojciech Moskwa, Alister Doyle, John Acher and Ole Petter Skonnord in Oslo, Writing by Alistair Lyon)
Norway gunman 'has accomplices'
BBC online
25 July 2011 Last updated at 10:49 ET
Norwegian police are investigating claims by Anders Behring Breivik, who has admitted carrying out Friday's twin attacks in Norway, that he has "two more cells" working with him.
Mr Breivik made the claim as he attended his first court hearing following the bombing in Oslo and a massacre on an island youth camp that killed at least 93 people in total.
Mr Breivik said his attacks were a "shock signal" to Norway's people.
He was detained for eight weeks.
Oslo police asked for Mr Breivik to be held in full isolation for the first four weeks.
Judge Kim Heger agreed, saying Mr Breivik could not receive letters or have visitors except for his lawyer.
Judge Heger said police must be able to proceed with the investigation into Mr Breivik's claims without the accused being able to interfere.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14280210
Am I the only one who is thinking what at least one well trained adult - carrying a concealed weapon - might have been able to do to reduce the carnage on that island in Norway? In any event, the article below, provides some interesting insight into the thought process of the anti-gun crowd - no doubt Mr. Grayling would have serious difficulty with our second amendment.
A C Grayling: What would Breivik be without a gun?
The global arms trade inevitably leads to the sort of atrocity inflicted on Norway. The killing machine has to be stopped.
The Independent - online
Sunday, 31 July 2011
Excerpts from a staunch anti-gun advocate:
Guns should be the subject of worldwide outrage. Their manufacture and sale should be a human-rights abuse, on which we pour vilification and horror. They should be illegal for all but properly constituted, trained and controlled agencies of governments, provided of course that the governments in question are themselves properly constituted and controlled by democratic means in a society where the rule of law obtains.
Human-rights agencies with representation at the UN in Geneva, such as the one I belong to (the International Humanist and Ethical Union), should begin campaigning for the manufacture and sale of small arms to be universally outlawed, and governments (such as the British government) which have responsible attitudes to gun control should be urged to join the campaign.
"Highly dangerous killing instruments": language matters: let us no longer use the word "gun" but that phrase "highly dangerous killing instrument", and perhaps perceptions will change. No doubt weapons manufacturers and lobbyists everywhere would regard with equal outrage the idea of severely limiting the number of highly dangerous killing instruments in public circulation, their existence being permitted only under official lock and key. What would these lobbyists argue in opposition? That highly dangerous killing instruments are for sport, for hunting (this last will not wash: killing things for sport? That is itself disgusting), for the fun of loud noises?
Americans with views not too far removed from those of Anders Behring Breivik say that they "need" their guns to "defend their freedoms", meaning against the tyranny of government and federal taxes. They should be reminded that it is the ballot, not the bullet, that is meant to do that job for them.
In fact, there are no good arguments in favour of the existence of highly dangerous killing instruments, and millions of excellent arguments against them, these being each human being, and indeed each elephant and tiger, shot to death by them. The Norwegian tragedy should be absolutely the last straw for civilised humanity on this subject, no further excuses allowed.
Full article at link below:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/a-c-grayling-what-would-breivik-be-without-a-gun-2329162.html
Am I the only one who is thinking what at least one well trained adult - carrying a concealed weapon - might have been able to do to reduce the carnage on that island in Norway?
Pretty sure I qualify as an adult:
"A good case for CCW.
Prayers out to the families.
__________________
"There you go, again." Ronald Reagan"
Pretty sure I qualify as an adult:
"A good case for CCW.
Prayers out to the families.
__________________
"There you go, again." Ronald Reagan"
Roger that. Prayers out. "A good case for CCW." :lifter
Any word on what weapons he used. Can you legally buy a gun in Norway?
Roguish Lawyer
07-31-2011, 14:08
I continue to be amazed that this has not happened here yet. Especially in a place where CCWs are tough to get, like where I live.
Any word on what weapons he used. Can you legally buy a gun in Norway?
Mini 14 (kind of had to tell with all the toys on it) and, I believe I read, a Glock.
Pat
Team Sergeant
07-31-2011, 15:48
I continue to be amazed that this has not happened here yet. Especially in a place where CCWs are tough to get, like where I live.
It has happened here, a couple of times...... (or do you mean kalif)
Utah Bob
07-31-2011, 15:51
I continue to be amazed that this has not happened here yet. Especially in a place where CCWs are tough to get, like where I live.
Do you mean an anti Muslim Crusader?
Roguish Lawyer
07-31-2011, 16:49
It has happened here, a couple of times...... (or do you mean kalif)
Not against civilian targets to my knowledge. I'm talking about going into a shopping mall or some other crowded area and shooting everyone in sight like the guy in Norway did.
The VA college for starters.
The Luby's shooting here in Killeen for another - 23 killed and 20 wounded.
Roguish Lawyer
07-31-2011, 17:13
Hmmmm, my bad . . . those were done by muslims?
Timeline: Mass shootings in US since 1999
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2009-04-04/timeline-mass-shootings-in-us-since-1999/1641054
It is interesting to read the list and note the number of "family" and robbery shootings that are mixed in with the nut cases. Well, some would claim they are all nut cases.
What ever happened to the guy that was in the Mall out in the west somewhere? Idaho or Utah - something like that. Was doing the Alla Akbar routine. That one dropped off the news real quick. Just about as quick as the guy here in NC that tried to use his SUV as his way to paradise.
BigJimCalhoun
07-31-2011, 17:55
That crossed my mind as well, however.....
According to one media source the 'Camp' was more of a liberal hoard pressing the issue of Free Palestine.
.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/07/summer-camp-indoctrination-training-center.html
Am I the only one who is thinking what at least one well trained adult - carrying a concealed weapon - might have been able to do to reduce the carnage on that island in Norway? In any event, the article below, provides some interesting insight into the thought process of the anti-gun crowd - no doubt Mr. Grayling would have serious difficulty with our second amendment.
A C Grayling: What would Breivik be without a gun?
The global arms trade inevitably leads to the sort of atrocity inflicted on Norway. The killing machine has to be stopped.
]
I read that posted on one of the gun blogs I read - amazing how people can believe that.
Any word on what weapons he used. Can you legally buy a gun in Norway?
Mini-14 and Glock 21 (?). The mini-14 was described this week as a "poor man's assault rifle" by I think the Violence Policy Center. As most here know, an AK costs less. Some of the magazines from either the Glock or the Mini-14 came from the US and Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy is blaming our gun laws.
Hmmmm, my bad . . . those were done by muslims?
Was Breivik a Muslim? :confused:
Norway prosecutor may accept mass-murderer Anders Behring Breivik not criminally responsible for rampage
OSLO — A Norwegian prosecutor said Friday he was conditionally ready to accept that the gunman who killed 77 people in twin attacks last July was not criminally responsible for his actions.
This would allow Anders Behring Breivik to be sentenced to confinement in a psychiatric ward instead of a prison at the end of his trial.
“The way the case appears at the time the charges are being brought, there is no basis to request a regular prison penalty,” state prosecutor Tor-Aksel Busch wrote in instructions to the prosecutors handling the case.
“But it must be clear in the charge sheet that the prosecution reserves the right, during the trial, to request a prison punishment or containment lasting 21 years (the maximum prison sentence for people deemed criminally responsible in Norway), based on the complete evidence shown to the court,” he added.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/02/norway-prosecutor-may-accept-mass-murderer-anders-behring-breivik-not-criminally-responsible-for-rampage/
greenberetTFS
03-07-2012, 22:21
Was Breivik a Muslim? :confused:
Richard
Your answer,but I believe you already knew this.........:rolleyes:
On July 22, the man who has claimed to be on a crusade against multi-culturalism and the “Muslim invasion” of Europe set off a car bomb outside government buildings in Oslo, killing eight people.
Big Teddy :munchin
On to college...excerpts from article at link.
Anders Behring Breivik, the convicted Norwegian killer, has been admitted to the University of Oslo’s political science program, the university’s rector said Friday.
Breivik, 36, is a right-wing extremist serving 21 years in prison for killing 77 people in a politically motivated bomb-and-gun attacks in 2011. The sentence can be extended when it expires.
Norway has a rehabilitation-focused justice system aimed at helping inmates prepare for life after they get out, which includes giving them the right to higher education. Prior to the 2011 massacres, Breivik attended high schools in Norway and took an online course in small business management. He didn’t complete secondary education, but has been working on it since his 2012 conviction.
"He then didn't meet the admission requirements. Now his grades live up to what is expected," university spokeswoman Marina Tofting said.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/07/18/norwegian-mass-killer-admitted-into-university-program/
Mustang Man
07-18-2015, 13:35
Holy s#!t just when I thought things couldn't be any more retarded over there. I bet Norwegian tax payers are thrilled! Aside the fact he is getting rewarded for murdering 77 innocent people, does the Norwegian judicial system really think some employer is gonna wanna hire someone like this?
Oh what am I saying...
When he's done with his time he can probably just sue the murder-phobic bigot employers for their discrimination.
I'm all for second chances and I'm sure some states in the U.S. have similar programs for less horrific crimes however, the fact that this dude didn't get hung or is doing life at minimum is absurd.