View Full Version : What can/would be wrong with...
This is a subject that I think everybody deals with at sometime or another in their life that has a job to which you deal with life and death matters on a daily basis. To some it is nothing to others it is a downright "smack in the face" followed up with fistacuffs.
The subject is the wearing and/or displaying of certain t-shirts, patches, and decals. With you guys who are the "real deal" SF troopers and have earned the right to wear and display just about anything you want to in public, what about John Q citizen who is walking by you wearing a t-shirt with the SF emblem and logo?
I come across people every once in a while wearing t-shirts that one could say would portray/perceive them as being in Law Enforcement. I don't take offense or even do a double-take, nor do I challenge them as to how they obtained that shirt. The same goes for people who have FOP placards on their plate(s). It doesn't bother me a bit if they aren't in L.E. as long as they do not try to act as a LEO or "bully" people around by false impression(s) and for personal gain. The reason why I am asking this is because of a B-Day gift and a talk with someone in SF. Here is a Reader's Digest version of the stories:
Mr brother-in-law recently retired from the USAF. He now works as a "civillian" contractor at Pope/Bragg. His job, from what I understand, is to procure items from various manufactures and issue them (as kits) to all ETAC's that will be deployed overseas. Items such as watches, flashlights, GPS's, boots, etc., etc. Basically whatever they need to accomplish their mission and make life easier and safer. This year he purchased a green muscle shirt from the JFKSWM that had the SF logo and patch on the left side and gave it to me a s agift for my birthday. I asked him what he thought of me wearing it around jogging. He didn't think it would be a problem as long as I didn't run around telling people who may ask that I was/am in SF. No problem there, not my nature. I then asked him if HE would wear it around Pope/Bragg while jogging. He stated, emphatically I might say, "absolutely not, are you kidding!" He further stated that those things in the SpecOps community around there just aren't done unless you are actually assigned to one of those units and it you wouldn't fair well if you did. I asked well what if you are a relative of someone serving in SpecOps or are just a public "supporter/fan" and you want to show your pride and support of those who are? He didn't know how to answer that one and just said go with your judgement and cop's six sense.
Recently, I wore the shirt while jogging and I ran into a guy who is in the 19th group ( I cannot remember his name now but do know of him to be in SF and that group). Other than to go into great depths as to what we talked about, let me just say that his reaction to me wearing such a shirt was that of "you didn't earn it, you shouldn't be wearing it, period!" I haven't worn it since.
What are your opinions? Is it OK to wear such items in public without ever having earned it? The more the better and are greatly appreciated. My intention(s) are to never portray myself in that light, nor bring dishonor to you guys. :confused:
Myself personally, no, not at all will I wear something with say the winged dagger out in public. Nor even RNZIR or really any Corps.
If it's a t shirt, then I can't see any problems wearing it around the house, doing the lawns, fixing the car, whatever.
I too am a little curious on how the QP's and such feel about this. :munchin
The Reaper
09-08-2004, 05:49
KIds and wives or girlfriends wearing them are okay, we all know they are not trying to pass themselves off as qualified.
SF memorabilia awarded by SF members (but not fronted by you as a member, as you noted) is okay with me as well, since you can always tell people a QP presented it to you. I have given away hats, coins, shirts, and jackets.
Why your NQPed bro-in-law would buy one and present it to you is a real puzzler. He isn't qualified, and neither are you. Who is he to be presenting SF memorabilia?
Personally, if I were you, I would not wear it out in public away from my house, but others may have different opinions.
TR
Frankly I don't gove a hoot. It's a T-shirt, not an award or issued item of uniform. It is a form of emulation and not imitation. If your friend reacted violently I would guess that he is pretty insecure in his position. Look upon it as a sign of support. It beats the hell out of "Che" T-shirts which do piss me off.
Sometimes I wonder how many "wannabe hunters" end up spitting their teeth into a beer glass in addition to wiping egg from their faces.
I guessI am fortunate I joined when people didn't even know what SF was. It was the job not the hat. I have never attained the height of status that I felt I could feel superior of others and I like it that way. :lifter
I wouldn't wear it if I were you...muscle shirts are soooo 80s. ;)
NousDefionsDoc
09-08-2004, 09:57
I don't really care either.
Unless the damn poodle happened to push me into a manhole that day. :cool:
Team Sergeant
09-08-2004, 10:04
I don't really care either.
Unless the damn poodle happened to push me into a manhole that day. :cool:
I only care if they are wearing a SF tee shirt and walking poodles..... :cool:
Jack Moroney (RIP)
09-08-2004, 10:17
Folks have given me things over the years as gifts that have absolutely nothing to do with anything about what I do/did/will do/ or ever wanted to do. They were gifts plain and simple and were accepted as such. I also have the basic load of SF related paraphenalia in the form of shirts from units to which I belonged or qualification courses that I attended all of which I wear from time to time usually to elict a response from groups of people I just want to piss off. You know, like wearing a ball cap that has SF plastered on it to a peacenick demonstration.
But then there are those items that someone gives you that just sort of flatters your sorry butt because they felt because it meant a lot to them it was their way of saying your okay in my book and this is my way of telling you that. I have many items like that two of which I can discuss that will provide you my perspective on this. One if from a Marine who gave me one of his regimental shirts from the organization he commanded and the other is a Son Tay Raider coin. Now I wear the shirt basically because for some reason folks just sort of assume I was a Marine NCO-probably because of my charm, lack of a neck, and that if I stand still long enough dogs come by to check if I really am a fire hydrant. Actually I wear it because I respect the guy that gave it to me and I enjoy telling folks that while I am not a Marine and did not sleep at a Holiday Inn Express the night before, I do have a good friend that is a Marine and I wear it to honor him. Sometimes a shirt is just a damn shirt.
The Coin is different. It was given to me by a good friend and arguably one of the finest NCOs SF has ever had within its ranks. That coin will never be carried by me but remains in a place of prominence in my den with the name of the individual . I could never place it in my pocket or use it as a challenge coin because to me it connotates to all that see it that I belonged to that group of folks that participated in that event. To do anything else would dishonor the person that gave it to me to signify our professional and personal relationship. So sometimes a coin is not just a coin but a bond between folks.
Jack Moroney
I only care if they are wearing a SF tee shirt and walking poodles..... :cool:
I used to have a poodle. He was bad to the bone and I should have gotten an SF sweater for him. I guess it really depends upon the demeaner of the individual. If he is respectable and just wearing an item with an SF logo what is the harm. As the saying goes;"Imitation is the best form of praise." OTOH if he looks like a bum, war protester or worse then it is not appropriate.
Airbornelawyer
09-08-2004, 12:21
I used to have a poodle. He was bad to the bone and I should have gotten an SF sweater for him. I guess it really depends upon the demeaner of the individual. If he is respectable and just wearing an item with an SF logo what is the harm. As the saying goes;"Imitation is the best form of praise." OTOH if he looks like a bum, war protester or worse then it is not appropriate.
Poodles were bred as aggressive hunting dogs, to hunt ducks in the marshes and streams of France. Their fur is for insulation while swimming to retrieve the game. The original purpose of the goofy haircut was to remove impediments to swimming around the joints.
Most dogs are good or bad depending on their owners (some breeds do have a predisposition for aggressiveness). Judge poodles, or any dog, by their owners.
As for T-shirts, I think intent is what matters. People wear T-shirts and jerseys of any number of professional athletes and teams, but few are pretending to actually be that player or on that team.
NousDefionsDoc
09-08-2004, 12:30
Poodles were bred as aggressive hunting dogs, to hunt ducks in the marshes and streams of France. Their fur is for insulation while swimming to retrieve the game. The original purpose of the goofy haircut was to remove impediments to swimming around the joints.
Most dogs are good or bad depending on their owners (some breeds do have a predisposition for aggressiveness). Judge poodles, or any dog, by their owners.
Why are you taking up for those Satan Spawn Beasts?
Team Sergeant
09-08-2004, 12:34
Poodles were bred as aggressive hunting dogs, to hunt ducks in the marshes and streams of France.
That sure says a lot for the breed....
That sure says a lot for the breed....
By any chance would that style be a Guy Original?
That's clearly just camouflage to allow the Poodle to sneak up on ducks as they sit in lakes!
SF Medic?
http://teamhouse.tni.net/humor/free/freepuppy.jpg
Airbornelawyer
09-08-2004, 15:13
That sure says a lot for the breed....
That is not a poodle, i.e., a Standard Poodle. That is a Miniature Poodle or a Toy Poodle. For comparison (and shits and giggles):
Airbornelawyer
09-08-2004, 15:14
And when they were real dogs:
NDD, TS and AL:
They are aggressive yet, DUMB! Mine decided too stand up against a Rottweiler at one time. :confused:
Needless to say...she got her ass handed to her. :eek: I wasn't there, if had been. My Kasper CRKT (which I carry 24/7) would have went into action. :cool:
My dogs are basically "early warning systems" that malfunction from time to time. :D
BTW...AL, I've seen some "big ones" out here, that caught me by surprise.
Add to the list of poodle jobs -- seeing eye dog. 'Bout fell out of my chair when I saw that this past spring. Even had the 'hunting dog' grooming.
The Reaper
09-08-2004, 20:15
BTW...AL, I've seen some "big ones" out here, that caught me by surprise.
They are stupid because of bad breeding, like Irish Setters.
The biggest is the Standard Poodle, up to 70 lbs.
TR
Ok, now let me get this straight. I can wear the shirt if I am walking a REAL Poodle (over 70lbs.) sporting blue urban camo along a lake habited by ducks, his natural prey. I cannot, however, wear it while in the urban setting because of the fear of being pushed by the REAL poodle into a manhole in which I may never return from. Or, do I need to sell my Labrador for a REAL poodle in order to wear the shirt even if I can't break even and I want the poodle to come in tiger stripes? :confused:
If you're wearing blue camo, you need an Air Force shirt.
It's all about accessorising.
Roguish Lawyer
09-08-2004, 23:58
As for T-shirts, I think intent is what matters. People wear T-shirts and jerseys of any number of professional athletes and teams, but few are pretending to actually be that player or on that team.
I think this is an excellent observation. I used to buy and wear t-shirts that I don't think about buying or wearing any more because I now understand how many soldiers feel about it. I understand the feeling, but I think it really is misguided in that many people -- like I did -- wear the stuff for the same reasons they wear t-shirts showing emblems of a rock band or sports team. It's often a way for someone to show support, not to claim credentials.
Just my opinion, and worth what you paid for it.
CommoGeek
09-09-2004, 19:34
As a non-tabbed support guy I had several shirts that said "Special Forces" on them or that sported my Group flash. NONE of them had an SF tab or green beret on them. They usually had the flash or SF crest.
When asked the first thing that I noted was that I was a non-tabbed support guy that got to do some neat things, but I was not SF qualified. Living within those parameters, nothing was ever said to me by the Team guys.
My limited take on things...
So it is the general consensus from you guys that it OK to wear such things?
Team Sergeant
09-10-2004, 07:57
Sure, I just would not wear them on a SF base.
I wear mine all the time and when someone asks me if I was SF I say no, I'm a Wendy's Manager Trainee....