View Full Version : Female Special Operators Now in Combat
Active CSTs in A-stan - some of the comments accompanying the article are interesting. I hope it works out for us.
Richard :munchin
Female Special Operators Now in Combat
Mil.Com, 29 June 2011
Army Special Operations Command has deployed its first teams of female Soldiers assigned to commando units in Afghanistan, and military officials are assessing their initial performance in theater as "off the charts."
In a controversial move early this year, the Army created a new avenue for women to serve with front-line combat units in some of the most specialized and covert missions. The so-called "Cultural Support Teams" are attached to Special Forces and Ranger units to interface with the female population to gain vital intelligence and provide social outreach.
"When I send an [SF team] in to follow up on a Taliban hit … wouldn't it be nice to have access to about 50 percent of that target population -- the women?" said Maj. Gen. Bennet Sacolick, commander of the Army Special Warfare Center and School, which runs the CST program.
"And now we're doing that with huge success," Sacolick said. "They are in Afghanistan right now and the reviews are off the charts. They're doing great."
So far, nearly 30 of the female CST Soldiers are deployed to the war zone, working in villages and towns that the commandos have cleared.
"They're supposed to be used on secure target areas," Sacolick said. "I don't want them fighting their way to a target."
While the Army has assigned women to front-line units in the past during searches of female civilians and detainees, the move by USASOC formalizes what some advocates have been hoping for in terms of opening up combat arms units to women.
The Soldiers assigned to the Cultural Support Teams aren't required to endure all the training of a Ranger or SF trooper, but they do have to learn advanced weapons handling and even fast-roping. Through three separate nine-day assessments so far, the Special Warfare Center and School has about a 50 percent attrition rate, officials say. Those who make it go through a six-week training course that teaches the Soldiers regional culture, intelligence gathering and small-unit combat tactics, officials say.
"I place less emphasis on the immediate physical standards," Sacolick said. "What I don't compromise on is intellect. I'm looking for smart kids."
Though USASOC will consider female Soldiers -- NCOs and junior officers -- from any MOS, they are especially interested in those from healthcare career fields, including nurse midwife (66G8D), as well as military police and military intelligence, according to the perquisites and requirements detailed on the Army Special Operations Command website.
The Special Warfare Center plans to run its next assessment for CST members in early September, officials say.
http://www.military.com/news/article/female-special-operators-now-in-combat.html
Barbarian
06-29-2011, 07:59
Can they cook?
Oh, I swear to GOD Dusty!! If I'm ever in the Ozarks....you are so going to get it!
Bwahahah!:D
This from top to bottom is a Dog & Pony Show.
I do not disparage any person for wanting to serve or a woman who feels she can do more in a combat roll.
Perhaps an American female soldier will attampt to communicate with local women about women's concern for childcare, health, rape, enemy activities. Not the first time women played a direct roll in covert operation, (i.e, French Resistance, WWII, coldwar, etc.), but this little girl is barely big enough to carry the weapon accross her chest.
How is this roll different from CA operations currently being performed and has been successful for the last 20+ years?
...Is it maybe because it's from Special Operations Command that it becomes so "newsworthy" ?
Can't get much past you, you got it on the first try.
Feel bad for our Ft Bragg brothers who have to work with their hands tied behind their backs, hanging pressed shirts, button with the use of their toes, blind folded and given no closet space.
MTN Medic
06-29-2011, 09:35
I am sure in her 6 week POI, exactly 4 days were spent doing "SUT."
But, she's got her painted m-4 with her (likely unzeroed) optics and lazers and P-mags. LOL. This should get interesting real quick.
I am sure in her 6 week POI, exactly 4 days were spent doing "SUT."
But, she's got her painted m-4 with her (likely unzeroed) optics and lazers and P-mags. LOL. This should get interesting real quick.
A) Painted M-4= Check
B) Non-Traditional Uniform=Check
C) Cool Glasses= Check
A+B+C= Special Operator
:rolleyes:
Walks like a duck, must be a duck right? I have seen some of these in action with another unit I piggybacked with one night and can say I was not impressed. Several breaks in contact on approach. Gained nothing from talking with women and children on the x. But her terp was smoking hot so they're good in my book.
Step one
Collect a large quantity of smoke
Step two
Combine smoke with equal parts of mirror
rinse and repeat
Roguish Lawyer
06-29-2011, 13:38
Can they cook?
LMAO
Ok, out on a limb here.
Prior to 911 and the involvement of female soldiers at the level of activity seen today I was TOTALLY against this sort of thing.
This was based upon simply my experience to date. I thought that the American public would recoil at females in body bags.
I thought female soldiers would not step up in the fashion they have, but they have.
The guys on this web know some hard core chicas that are willing to mix it up.
The female soldiers have done whatever has been asked of them and done right by it.
I was wrong.
In this form of application I'd say 'wait and see' you may be surprised.
No, they ain't special operators, but if they volunteer, bust their chops trying and deploy, execute according to oplan/order and are value added then God bless 'em.
Some guys in SMU's know what I'm talking about.
MTN Medic
06-29-2011, 14:02
Ok, out on a limb here.
Prior to 911 and the involvement of female soldiers at the level of activity seen today I was TOTALLY against this sort of thing.
This was based upon simply my experience to date. I thought that the American public would recoil at females in body bags.
I thought female soldiers would not step up in the fashion they have, but they have.
The guys on this web know some hard core chicas that are willing to mix it up.
The female soldiers have done whatever has been asked of them and done right by it.
I was wrong.
In this form of application I'd say 'wait and see' you may be surprised.
No, they ain't special operators, but if they volunteer, bust their chops trying and deploy, execute according to oplan/order and are value added then God bless 'em.
Some guys in SMU's know what I'm talking about.
SMU's train their soldiers. From what I read, there is a 6 week POI. I don't see much opportunity to learn even a warm and fuzzy about FM7-8; along with all the other time intensive stuff they are learning.
Not knocking THEM, but rather the way they were trained, this is implemented and how much danger they are putting themselves (read, us) in.
I guess with 12% of combat arms soldiers slated to ETS because of DADT, we might need the bullet flingers. :confused:
Those who make it go through a six-week training course that teaches the Soldiers regional culture, intelligence gathering and small-unit combat tactics, officials say.
"I place less emphasis on the immediate physical standards," Sacolick said. "What I don't compromise on is intellect. I'm looking for smart kids."
The other problem. If these statements are true, these chicks are dead weight in a firefight. Now, the one chick you talked about might be the exception to the rule, but I am certain that Women like that are few and far between.
SMU's train their soldiers. From what I read, there is a 6 week POI. I don't see much opportunity to learn even a warm and fuzzy about FM7-8; along with all the other time intensive stuff they are learning.
Not knocking THEM, but rather the way they were trained, this is implemented and how much danger they are putting themselves (read, us) in.
I guess with 12% of combat arms soldiers slated to ETS because of DADT, we might need the bullet flingers. :confused:
The other problem. If these statements are true, these chicks are dead weight in a firefight. Now, the one chick you talked about might be the exception to the rule, but I am certain that Women like that are few and far between.
Not disagreeing with your comments. Only time will tell and the aar's. Folks that don't like a hot kitchen usually opt out anyways.
one-zero
06-29-2011, 16:11
:rolleyes:
Irish_Army01
06-29-2011, 16:35
Saw that on another forum.. guess it going down too well with you folk..
Utah Bob
06-29-2011, 16:36
FSO tab??;)
They have to qualify with their weapons also.
19347
Irish_Army01
06-29-2011, 17:27
They have to qualify with their weapons also.
19347
nice one! LOL
alright4u
06-29-2011, 17:37
This from top to bottom is a Dog & Pony Show.
I do not disparage any person for wanting to serve or a woman who feels she can do more in a combat roll.
Perhaps an American female soldier will attampt to communicate with local women about women's concern for childcare, health, rape, enemy activities. Not the first time women played a direct roll in covert operation, (i.e, French Resistance, WWII, coldwar, etc.), but this little girl is barely big enough to carry the weapon accross her chest.
How is this roll different from CA operations currently being performed and has been successful for the last 20+ years?
Me wonders if the Gen is looking for the feminazi votes of Pelosi, Feinstein, and the uber left for a third star?
Did a little looking around on this.
We all know CST's have been around for awhile now so that's nothing new. Deploying them in this manner doesn't seem that diferent either but I'm not totally familiar with this specific program so you current guys clue me if I need it.
Females have been in CA/Psyops forever.
The 'new' part is the selection assessment and basic combat skills training.
That is always a good idea but I believe that CA/Psyops instituted that because they want to remain part of US SOCOM at the branch management level.
They were the only element of US SOCOM that did not have a 'gut check' assessment element built into their basic course and have been taking heat from SOCOM because of that.
Numerous SOCOM Cmdr's have broght this subject up at Army/DoD level conferences and they always hinged upon no selection weeding out process.
So I don't think CA/Psyops is looking to be 'operators' they just want to remain in the fold.
I knew there was a reason I liked you.
Alelks: Shut up -- if that were mine I'd Bedazzle it!!
Well, duh, always know how to attract the chica's with the hottest avatars...;)
The 'new' part is the selection assessment and basic combat skills training.....
.....So I don't think CA/Psyops is looking to be 'operators' they just want to remain in the fold.
I may have to agree with that bro, but who was the little girl who exited her vehicle, and returned fire? For doing so, she was awarded the Silver Star or it might have been the Bronze.
It was mentioned, as a reminder, that doing so is a Skill Level 1 task. Is this not taught in basic training? Army wide, how many units 'Do Not' conduct some level of MOUT training at the CO or Platoon level? More than we suspect, but being within the 18series friends and families, I think teaching these skills would be simple.
Without increasing unit budgets by much, adding MOUT or FM7-8 training to a Ft Bragg stationed CA/Psyops unit would not be difficult. Even a 12 man MTT could travel to several different locations, (each of the many SF Bns), and train tunit's PA/Psyops troops.
MTN Medic
06-29-2011, 20:30
Not disagreeing with your comments. Only time will tell and the aar's. Folks that don't like a hot kitchen usually opt out anyways.
Thing is, people shouldn't be opting out because of something jammed down their throats by a liberal agenda that has ZERO to do with mission capability or readiness.
If 12% of combat arms are expected to leave the service over this, there has got to be something wrong with the surveys that these asshats put out. If 12% are leaving, how many are on the fence or just super pissed off?
I know of 1. :rolleyes:
Thing is, people shouldn't be opting out because of something jammed down their throats by a liberal agenda that has ZERO to do with mission capability or readiness.
If 12% of combat arms are expected to leave the service over this, there has got to be something wrong with the surveys that these asshats put out. If 12% are leaving, how many are on the fence or just super pissed off?
I know of 1. :rolleyes:
Not what I meant. I was talking about the CA/Psyops folks opting out for this kind of operation if it's a tad too hot for them.
The Reaper
06-29-2011, 20:55
Just cause your cat had kittens in the oven don't make 'em biscuits.
The CSTs/FETs are great for some missions, not so much for others, like combat FID and UW.
As noted, time will tell, unless a politician sees an opening here and jams it through regardless, like DADT.
TR
Just cause your cat had kittens in the oven don't make 'em biscuits.
The CSTs/FETs are great for some missions, not so much for others, like combat FID and UW.
As noted, time will tell, unless a politician sees an opening here and jams it through regardless, like DADT.
TR
Actually I agree but don't blame the psyop/ca guys/gals trying...blame the decision maker that put them in the fid/uw environment. It'll work or it won't and it won't be dif to tell. I doubt it'll cont. if not successful.
Did a little looking around on this.
We all know CST's have been around for awhile now so that's nothing new. Deploying them in this manner doesn't seem that diferent either but I'm not totally familiar with this specific program so you current guys clue me if I need it.
Females have been in CA/Psyops forever.
The 'new' part is the selection assessment and basic combat skills training.
That is always a good idea but I believe that CA/Psyops instituted that because they want to remain part of US SOCOM at the branch management level.
They were the only element of US SOCOM that did not have a 'gut check' assessment element built into their basic course and have been taking heat from SOCOM because of that.
Numerous SOCOM Cmdr's have broght this subject up at Army/DoD level conferences and they always hinged upon no selection weeding out process.
So I don't think CA/Psyops is looking to be 'operators' they just want to remain in the fold.
PRB - Yes the have been around for a very long time. One thing SF guys don't fully know or understand IMHO is a lot of OTHER UNITS use females. Just like any soldier, it’s all about the training, all parts of the training. Many of these women (CST members) will walk off the job during the deployment due to living conditions. Ones that like it will stay around. I foresee main issue will be for SF or Combat Arms dealing with them. Mainly understanding the fact that is you jump in bed with one you will have to jump in bed with all of them. Hand grenade or not!! Just like operationally SF guys have to understand their Operational Environment or SA; you start working with that one.. say drug dealer; Others dealer will come a asking for the same treatment. When you don’t help them out, problems start coming!!
So the 11Bs, 31Bs and 89Ds supporting SF with local security, QRFs and EOD skills should be considered SOF as well now? Would this make HN terps "foreign" SOF?
So the 11Bs, 31Bs and 89Ds supporting SF with local security, QRFs and EOD skills should be considered SOF as well now? Would this make HN terps "foreign" SOF?
Exactly! Just like all of the tier 2 guys are 'operators'.....;)
Active CSTs in A-stan - some of the comments accompanying the article are interesting. I hope it works out for us.
Richard :munchin
Female Special Operators Now in Combat
Mil.Com, 29 June 2011
http://www.military.com/news/article/female-special-operators-now-in-combat.html
IMHO, it will no doubt work in some cases and not in others, just like 30 years ago when I was in PsyOp. We had a 60% drop out in the first months of training and another 15% by the end. From the graduates, maybe 30% were good at their jobs.
My observation is that we have men who can't shoot well and women who can't -- and ones of both gender who can. So use the women who can do the job and drop the rest. I was a 21 year old 5'5" 120 lbs SSGT but managed just fine and usually helped one of the guys and carried part of his gear as well -- so a small frame can be misleading. SF guys always managed to carry their own gear. God Bless SF. :)
Just on the subject, most may already know but the Brits have had women in one of their SOF units since the 70's. 14 INT was a surveillance type unit that worked extensively in the north of Ireland during the 'troubles' predominantley against the Provo's. In fact it still does under a new name.
Women were selected, trained and worked alongside in the same roles as their male counterparts. The unit had SAS/SBS on assignment to it and the selection course was initially ran by 22 SAS.
While not a direct action type unit it does fall under the command of the UK's Director of Special Forces and would be in a tier 2 type category as they are in support of tier 1 operations but the women do legitimately work in an SOF role.
This may have little bearing on the topic of this thread but I thought it might be intresting to some.
Utah Bob
07-14-2011, 13:02
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Even if it fails I expect it will be part of a long term evolution.
Eagle5US
07-14-2011, 13:29
Just on the subject, most may already know but the Brits have had women in one of their SOF units since the 70's. 14 INT was a surveillance type unit that worked extensively in the north of Ireland during the 'troubles' predominantley against the Provo's. In fact it still does under a new name.
Women were selected, trained and worked alongside in the same roles as their male counterparts. The unit had SAS/SBS on assignment to it and the selection course was initially ran by 22 SAS.
While not a direct action type unit it does fall under the command of the UK's Director of Special Forces and would be in a tier 2 type category as they are in support of tier 1 operations but the women do legitimately work in an SOF role.
This may have little bearing on the topic of this thread but I thought it might be intresting to some.
Yes, but being around Brit SOF in Theater, and Brits in general in Theater, I can say that within THEIR CULTURE, items like oh, I dunno...NUDITY are no big deal. Brit chicks will drop trou and drain their brillo and no one pays her any never mind. PT in her Sports Bra - no biggie. Need to change cloths, who cares. They are really de-sensitized to the whole think I think.
They have nudity on TV, casual sex is a recreational activity, so many taboo subjects in the States are quite frankly "non-issues". They do not have the same PC conscious BULLSHIT that we do. They give a rats ass about EO, alcohol, getting laid, or being naked during their off duty time. On duty, they have (at least in my observation), always been spot on.
Surgicalcric
07-14-2011, 13:49
Just on the subject, most may already know but the Brits have had women in one of their SOF units since the 70's. 14 INT...
The males in the units you referenced refer to the females working along side them (in the field, not tech jobs) as "props." I wont go into the details and am not degrading their service to the Regiment or the Queen but you are comparing apples to oranges... Different environments, different requirements, different cultures and expectations.
lol Real Housewives of Squadron Five. Or: Not Tonight, Honey, UBL's Gettin' a Headache
incarcerated
07-14-2011, 15:03
Yes, but being around Brit SOF in Theater, and Brits in general in Theater, I can say that within THEIR CULTURE, items like oh, I dunno...NUDITY are no big deal. Brit chicks will drop trou and drain their brillo and no one pays her any never mind. PT in her Sports Bra - no biggie. Need to change cloths, who cares. They are really de-sensitized to the whole think I think.... casual sex is a recreational activity....
That settles it. Next vacation: London.
;)
Just on the subject, most may already know but the Brits have had women in one of their SOF units since the 70's. 14 INT was a surveillance type unit that worked extensively in the north of Ireland during the 'troubles' predominantley against the Provo's. In fact it still does under a new name.
Women were selected, trained and worked alongside in the same roles as their male counterparts. The unit had SAS/SBS on assignment to it and the selection course was initially ran by 22 SAS.
While not a direct action type unit it does fall under the command of the UK's Director of Special Forces and would be in a tier 2 type category as they are in support of tier 1 operations but the women do legitimately work in an SOF role.
This may have little bearing on the topic of this thread but I thought it might be intresting to some.
Yeah for real.. SPOT ON MATE!!!!
ARE YOU FOR FRIKIN REAL!!!! I see where your at "Europe ", but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express too.
That is like saying CA and MISO/MIST or Operators or Special Operations so this makes CST are Operators too. LMAO MAD FUNNY
I sat through a CST Enabler briefing and I sat there and was like your guys are smoking some of the same stuff the ANA are smoking. Cuz your Frikin HIGH!!
When a CST female Soldier ask "OMG WTF was that" as we are walking down a street (trail in my eyes). NO Shit, I said it is what in Muslin countries call the call of pray, I guess they left that out of your training too. Well FYI it happens it happens five times a day.
I think the 6 week course is nothing more than some weeks of Death by PPt shows and a week of Range with the GREAT CULEX to top it all off. CA or MISO dust you are trained!! I bet you MONEY it is nothing (anything) that the SAS does. Not ever close!!! There is no SF guys teaching within that 6 week course that I know of. I just asked that Question today. From what a CST E8 and E7 instructors said was NO not at this time. "We are working on that thou, you feel like doing it? LMAO once again.
Like Crip said. FUCKIN APPLE TO ORANGES. IMHO don't compare this CST program to anything that the SAS have been doing or will ever do. It is like a bird covered in shit. It's a pill of shit!!
IMO - End of Topic with any Comparence with the SAS.
So the 11Bs, 31Bs and 89Ds supporting SF with local security, QRFs and EOD skills should be considered SOF as well now? Would this make HN terps "foreign" SOF?
Sir,
Great POINT.. Never looked at it in this way. How Enablers can start picking at what 18 series can do now if Groups would set up the training within.
I mean...
18B - Crane Armor Course, Mortar Ldrs Course, ETC
18C - Have more EOD skills than an 21B, but Fort Lost in the woods pushes how great 21's are with Army Times to their Engineer magazine to training courses at the Counter Explosive Hazards Center.
What 18 Series really wants to be a COP??? LOL Joking to all of you NG guys.
We, SF, keep being the norm. I think we could just be that. Everyone else in SOF and that Special Forces TAB is what then??
Can they cook?
LOL, that's what I was thinkin'!
Yes, I'm awake now D.
Least sof was thinking, they used oga's for test dummies. :D
Badger52
07-15-2011, 09:08
I may have to agree with that bro, but who was the little girl who exited her vehicle, and returned fire? For doing so, she was awarded the Silver Star or it might have been the Bronze.
It was mentioned, as a reminder, that doing so is a Skill Level 1 task. Is this not taught in basic training? Army wide, how many units 'Do Not' conduct some level of MOUT training at the CO or Platoon level? More than we suspect, but being within the 18series friends and families, I think teaching these skills would be simple.
Sir, are you thinking of (now) SSG Leigh Ann Hester, 617MP, KY NG perchance? (Silver Star) They were riding shotgun on contractor convoys, action's objective (replete with knuckleheads w/flexcuffs) was to capture some US civ truck drivers. Small contingent of MPs smoked them with aimed fire. They deployed through here & trained here - got to meet them - their stuff was tight. Basic stuff for them but they drilled it & executed what they drilled when they needed it.
I wonder in '02 when commo daughter was up at Orgun (and the only female there before much of the current feely-good PC krap) and got asked to straphang into some villages for the same purpose as these CST's if that was a "program." She was with some professionals (she felt) and told me later "worried? hell no, we were just part of each other's team; I never felt so safe."
She did not have a title like Lioness or CST or anything, no Discovery Channel cameras came, she was just there. I wonder if this is just an old idea, previously used in many situations, but suffering from the hallowed-halls NIH ("Not Invented Here") syndrome. I'm not denigrating participants at all, but it always seems to coincide with a massive PR score. Then again I might be cynical.
LibraryLady
07-15-2011, 09:36
The males in the units you referenced refer to the females working along side them (in the field, not tech jobs) as "props." I wont go into the details and am not degrading their service to the Regiment or the Queen but you are comparing apples to oranges... Different environments, different requirements, different cultures and expectations.
This is why I hate comparing the state of wimmenz in the US military to the wimmenz in other countries' military. Just because it works for one country doesn't mean it will work for another.
LL
frostfire
07-20-2011, 10:18
Actually I agree but don't blame the psyop/ca guys/gals trying...
I met one today who sure was trying. Had this 30lbs lighter, 10 inches shorter, female SGT outrucked me, and I was doing a 13.16min pace! Beat her on every uphill but on flat terrain I got my a** handed to me :( She's an absolute no-go at pull-ups though :D
From today's Stars and Stripes - WaPo weighs in on the CSTs...
Richard :munchin
In a new elite Army unit, women serve alongside Special Forces, but first they must make the cut
WaPo, 27 Oct 2011
Part 1 of 2
The medics helped Sgt. Janiece Marquez into a chair and started to treat her sprained ankle. Marquez, 25, had tripped over a rock on one of the dark paths in the camp. She had just run two miles during the physical fitness test and marched at least six miles carrying a 35-pound rucksack that evening. Now she could barely walk.
One of the medics looked at her ankle.
“Are you going to be able to ruck tomorrow?”
“Absolutely,” Marquez said.
“What if I tell you the next day you’re going to go about 25 miles? Are you ready for that? Do you think you can physically do it?”
What Marquez knew for certain was that she wasn’t going to quit. And that refusal to give up was what the evaluators, all special operations soldiers, were looking for in the 55 selectees here at Camp Mackall, a former World War II training base near Fort Bragg tucked into the pine forests of central North Carolina. They were being considered for elite, all-female teams trained to build relationships with Afghan women.
The evaluators wanted the Army’s best female soldiers. The toughest — mentally and physically — and the sharpest intellectually. The next 100 hours would not only test the soldiers’ ability to run and march, but also how well they thought on their feet and adapted to the unknown.
With a throbbing ankle and many more back-breaking marches with heavy rucksacks and lung-burning runs ahead of her, Marquez got up and limped across camp.
* * *
While Department of Defense and military department policies still restrict women from serving in combat units, the soldiers selected from this group will serve alongside the Army’s most elite units on the battlefield. The Army has never selected women to do a mission because of their sex, until now.
It is recruiting female soldiers to work closely with Special Forces teams and Ranger units during raids. Because women and children are often held in a separate room while soldiers search the compound, these teams go into villages in Afghanistan to build rapport with women, as it is culturally inappropriate for male soldiers to talk with them.
“We’ve been missing out on half of the population in Afghanistan because of cultural taboos,” said candidate Meghan Curran, a West Point graduate and first lieutenant in the artillery.
Female Marines began meeting with women in southern Afghanistan two years ago. Then in spring 2010, retired Navy Adm. Eric Olson, the commander of U.S. Special Operations Command, issued an order to create these Cultural Support Teams.
The teams are trained to have a deeper understanding of Afghan culture and to connect with women in the villages to gather information on enemy activities. The teams aim to create a dialogue between U.S. forces and Afghan women, which can help in medical clinics or building governance.
The teams have been deployed to Afghanistan for more than a year. While Army officials have praised the program, it is unclear how they are measuring its success except for anecdotal stories and requests for more CSTs by commanders in Afghanistan.
So far, 156 out of 233 candidates have been selected.
Until Maj. Patrick McCarthy became the architect of CST selection, no one in the Army had created an assessment course for women. McCarthy was a unit commander during the so-called surge in Iraq in 2007 and 2008.
The selection process borrows from his experience in Iraq and from some of the same problem-solving and physical tests used to weed out Special Forces candidates. Selection tests a soldier’s ability to maintain composure, apply logic, communicate clearly and solve problems in demanding environments. It’s as much a mental test as it is a physical one.
“The unique perspective of females in military operations, particularly unconventional situations, is an untapped and underappreciated capability within the Army,” McCarthy said. “These teams are important — not only for the Army, but for the success of military operations as a whole.”
That is why McCarthy makes getting on a team difficult. In fact, he calls selection “100 hours of Hell.”
* * *
Sunday morning, the first day of assessments, the candidates got off the bus and quickly changed into shorts and running shoes. The 55 women, a mix of officers and enlisted soldiers and one Air Force major, grunted their way through two minutes of push-ups, sit-ups and a two-mile run. Each rep was measured with by-the-book standards. Six candidates got cut right away.
Next, candidates were separated into five teams. They wore digital camouflage uniforms with tape on their arms and legs showing their roster number, so it was impossible to tell who was an officer and who was enlisted. That afternoon, the team members got a first assignment but also spent time getting to know one another and forming a bond that they hoped would help them through.
“It has always shocked me how close a group of soldiers can become in such a short amount of time,” said 2nd Lt. Alex Horton, a Team 2 member. Horton, 23, from Hermosa Beach, Calif., grew up with a hippie mom and a Navy father. She joined the Army after completing her degree in criminal justice at Western Michigan University. She sees the Army as a short-term job.
“After I get out, I’ll join the Peace Corps,” she said. “I want to have both aspects and have that to look back on. A soldier and a hippie.”
She selected the intelligence branch in the hope it would give her a future with the FBI or CIA. With only a few months in the Army, she was already restless. That’s why she was at Camp Mackall.
“I realized that sitting at a computer is not my thing,” she said. “I really didn’t feel like a soldier being an intel officer.”
Team 2 was made up of six officers, including Horton, and four sergeants. Marquez, from Bosque Farms, N.M., wanted to be in the infantry when she walked into the recruiter’s office in 2005. The recruiter pointed out that women can’t join the infantry, so she became a linguist and interrogator.
Marquez was deployed to Khost, Afghanistan, in 2008 for 15 months. That tour should have been her chance to use her interrogation skills, but she felt stifled and bored working with the 101st Airborne Division. “I like very intelligent, driven people,” she said. “And I can’t say that about the people I was working with out there, and because of it, my deployment was kind of tough.”
The times she did get to use her skills or build rapport with the Afghans, though, made her believe she had the skills to carry off the CST mission.
* * *
None of the candidates was allowed to wear a watch. Instead, they relied upon a large, white dry-erase board near their tents to tell them where to be and what to do. The directions were sparse — “Pack a rucksack with 35 pounds” — and designed to make the candidates prepare for the unknown.
Racing to the board a few hours after the physical fitness test, Meghan Curran saw that the next event was a road march: a brisk jog. There were no orders on distance. Just directions to bring a pack and enough water to stay hydrated.
She and her teammates marched silently, crossing over the sandy hills. Many leaned forward under the weight of their packs. Few women could keep up with Curran. The 24-year-old from Chelmsford, Mass., excels at runs and ruck marches.
“Physical parts are easy. I know that is one of my strengths,” Curran said. But she admits to not being the smartest student, especially compared with her classmates at West Point, from which she graduated in 2009. Curran used to listen to her father talk about his stint in the Marines, and she wanted to serve, too.
All of Team 2 completed the march. None had as much trouble as 42-year-old Air Force Maj. Sarah Cleveland, on Team 3, who marched until her legs stopped working. Cramping up so badly she couldn’t walk, she fell onto the dirt road.
“I can’t quit!” she screamed between moans of agony. Her legs kicked out as if she was fighting off an attacker.
“Don’t worry about that right now,” said McCarthy, in a rare crack in his gruff demeanor.
“My legs are really bad,” Cleveland said.
Medics swarmed around her and applied cold compresses on her legs and arms. One medic slid a needle into her left arm and started an IV fluid bag. Clearing the seats out of a Ford cargo van, they hustled Cleveland into the back and drove her to a nearby clinic. The next morning, she joined her team.
Two other candidates fell out during the march, making eight washouts before the end of the first day.
* * *
On Day 2, Team 2 walked gingerly across the gravel on the parade field trying to keep pressure off the blisters on their feet.
“I am like an old car that can’t go any faster,” 1st Lt. Amy Steffanetta said. “I’m stuck in second gear.”
Steffanetta, 24, was the only other candidate who went to West Point. When she was in middle school, her U.S. history teacher kept talking about all the Civil War generals who went to the military academy. Steffanetta concluded that people who do big things in the world went there. She graduated in 2009 as a military police officer.
“If you really make a difference and are the most trained and qualified, you have to make the sacrifice and go the hard route,” she said.
The day’s obstacle course was a mix of physical tests, such as climbing over a wall, and problem-solving exercises, such as disarming a make-believe bomb blindfolded. Between each obstacle, the team hiked a few miles with their heavy packs and mock rifles.
(cont'd)
In a new elite Army unit, women serve alongside Special Forces, but first they must make the cut
WaPo, 27 Oct 2011
Part 2 of 2
“Push. Push!”
Their teammates held onto Steffanetta’s and Horton’s belts, trying to keep them from falling off the pedestal. Together, they looked like an all-female Iwo Jima Memorial.
“Push. Push!”
Finally, the lip of the beam landed on the pedestal. Horton, a former gymnast, started easily across the plank, which was slightly smaller than a balance beam. But when she got to the middle, the beam tipped into the river.
Failure.
“That was like giving birth,” one of the soldiers said as they walked back to the tent city, tired and demoralized.
* * *
Ordered into the back of a truck Wednesday (after Tuesday’s tests and psychological evaluations), Team 2 looked nervous. A truck could mean many possibilities: a respite for their worn-out feet, or a long ride and an even longer walk back. Horton’s boots had already rubbed off a three-inch spot of skin on her foot. She had blisters covering her toes, still painted with a bright red polish.
The evaluators sealed the back flap so it was impossible for the candidates to see where the truck was headed. Some candidates tried to sleep, their legs draped over the rucksacks that covered the floor.
When the flap was finally flipped open, 1st Lt. Leslie Johnson saw the SURF, the Soldier Urban Reaction Facility, and knew exactly what was in store. The SURF was created to focus on building rapport in a foreign culture. Using cameras, the instructors can watch how the soldiers might handle different worst-case scenarios, staged in each of the four rooms. Built out of wood with faux arches and a crescent hanging over the opening, it looked like a cheap, rundown amusement park, but it is intended to resemble the Middle East. Rugs covered the floors. Pillows lined the walls of one room. In the center of the third room was a low table covered by a maroon cloth.
When the test started, Marquez knocked softly on the door and was greeted by seven female soldiers posing as villagers.
“How is everyone?” Marquez asked, taking a seat on the floor and laying her rifle nearby.
The “villagers” started speaking at once. Their husbands beat them. One said she didn’t want to be a sex slave around to only make babies. The “villagers” demanded education. Freedom. Equality. The pleas were lost in a shrill wall of sound.
“Ladies, I can only speak to one of you at a time,” Marquez said calmly.
But before the meeting could get going, two soldiers acting as husbands burst into the room. Screaming and waving an AK-47 rifle, the men chased their wives into a back room. Marquez, startled, jumped up and snatched her rifle. Holding it in both hands, she backed away from the men, who were huge, compared with her.
“Why are you in my house?” demanded Spc. David Atkinson. “Who let you in here? Which one?”
As Atkinson yelled, his partner, Staff Sgt. Mike Ward, started hauling the women out. Holding the women by their hair and “slapping” them, Ward screamed at Marquez. She raised her rifle and ordered the men to get on their knees.
“Are you here to execute us?” Atkinson screamed.
“Lay down,” Marquez said, grabbing Atkinson’s AK-47, which had been dropped in the commotion.
The men acted stunned, but they complied. After kneeling and stretching their arms out across the table, they began to yell at Marquez.
“Why are you in my house?”
“I am here to listen to your concerns,” Marquez said, her rifle still trained on them.
“This is how you help people?” Atkinson screamed. “By coming into my house and making me get on the floor? You want to keep disrespecting us?”
Her training as an interrogator kicked in.
“Right now, you’re under an insurgency,” she told them. “We fear for not only you but your wives. I am here to help people.”
The exercise ended with the standoff. No feedback, no time to decompress. Minutes later, it was Curran’s turn. The scenario started the same way. A wave of complaints, followed by shouting husbands.
“Now she is not going to be able to cook today because she won’t be able to see out of her eye,” Ward screamed at Curran.
Curran retreated from the angry husbands. As the chaos swirled, she just stood motionless.
“I was totally off my game,” she said back at the tent. “It was eye-opening.”
* * *
Late Wednesday night, Team 2 marched across the camp to a spartan tent and tried to present a brief on how their military specialties — artillery, intelligence, communications, veterinary — contributed to the counterinsurgency fight. One by one, they stood in front of McCarthy, Master Sgt. Gabriel Fabrizio and Capt. Chris Rhoades and made a case for themselves.
From behind a table, McCarthy and the others scribbled notes between long glares at the candidates. After four days of intense scrutiny, the members of Team 2 wilted under the gaze. They stammered, struggled to answer simple questions and came off as punch-drunk.
Afterward, they retreated back to their team tent.
“You have to keep a positive attitude. They are just trying to play mind games and see how you react,” Horton said.
Curran broke into tears. She was convinced that she wasn’t going to make it.
* * *
Team 2’s Thursday started at 3 a.m. The test was to carry an ammo crate using two heavy poles and rope. Johnson and Curran took the crate, sliding the metal pole through the rope handles on either side. The rest of the team carried the second pole and rope and started toward the finish, spelling Curran and Johnson along the way. The march would take almost an hour. But with no idea how far they were going, they tried to take their minds off the grueling march.
“I want to take my motorcycle and go for a long ride,” Johnson said.
“I want ice cream,” another soldier said.
The crisp night air made the march bearable. Team 2 soon passed Team 1. Cresting a hill, Team 2 came up on an instructor with a riddle about compass points. Each candidate read the riddle and gave an answer.
The right answer would cut a few miles off the course for the soldier. The wrong one would just add to it.
Each candidate got the riddle wrong.
Team 2 was soon spread out with some, like Curran, reaching the next test well before her teammates. As they waited, Curran and Johnson talked again about food and home. Sgt. Sheree Lapointe read her Bible.
Horton had her boots off, looking at her bloody sock.
“If I don’t make it, I am going to ask my major if I can wear flip-flops to work,” she said.
When all the other team members caught up, they pulled on their rucksacks again and continued to march down the sandy track. After a while, the chatter stopped, replaced by the shuffling of boots on the dirt road and the sloshing of what was left of the water in their canteens. Even Marquez, one of the serial talkers, was quiet. Everybody had the same anguished look on her face.
* * *
On the last day of selections, the soldiers filed into an auditorium in Bank Hall, the main classroom building for special operations training at Fort Bragg. The five teams waited impatiently to see if they’d made it.
Marquez alternated between being confident to talking herself out of being selected to soften the blow.
After a McCarthy pep talk, the soldiers were called individually into a room. Inside, the cadre discussed each candidate’s strengths and weaknesses before telling her whether she had been chosen. Those selected went out a side door and to the left. All the non-selects went out the door and to the right.
“You’d see people walking, and you had no idea why they were going,” Marquez said. “Finally, you get out there and turn to the left. And you see some of your friends have made it.”
Meghan Curran and Amy Steffanetta also turned left. Steffanetta laughed and hugged her other teammates. She was thrilled for them but equally frustrated for those, such as Lapointe, who weren’t selected.
Lapointe, 25, was shocked. “I know it wasn’t a team assessment, but we pulled together,” she said. “Each of us brought something to the team. I am just glad I helped get them selected. I know I left everything out there. I cried. It hurt. I wanted to be with my teammates.”
Out of the 10 Team 2 soldiers, only three didn’t make it. Horton was rated the best candidate by her Team 2 peers and was in the top five in the entire class. She was the most natural leader, the instructors told her.
Cleveland, the Air Force major, was also selected. She had been the first inter-service member in the course.
“She indirectly paved the way for other services to participate,” McCarthy said.
That night, the selected candidates either headed for Fort Benning, Ga., to start their deployment paperwork before returning to Fort Bragg for six weeks of training or headed back to their old units only to return in the fall for training.
After leaving Fort Bragg, Steffanetta’s bus stopped for dinner at Subway. Filing back on the bus with armfuls of sandwiches, chips and cookies, the soldiers began to eat, resting their heads on the comfortable seats or on the windows. The only movie on the bus was “Black Hawk Down.” Soon, the soldiers started to doze off to the soundtrack of machine-gun fire during the Battle of Mogadishu. For most of them, it was the first restful sleep in 100 hours.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/in-new-elite-army-unit-women-serve-alongside-special-forces-but-first-they-must-make-the-cut/2011/10/06/gIQAZWOSMM_story.html
So the 11Bs, 31Bs and 89Ds supporting SF with local security, QRFs and EOD skills should be considered SOF as well now? Would this make HN terps "foreign" SOF?
Would sure make me happy :munchin just kidding I'm not a douche.
Or am I for being a 31b? :boohoo
Wenches have been around since Eve. Now, all of a sudden, they're capable of becoming commandoes?
Nah.
greenberetTFS
11-07-2011, 16:39
We, SF, keep being the norm. I think we could just be that. Everyone else in SOF and that Special Forces TAB is what then??
Speaking about TABs,do the female warriors that passed the CST training get a TAB of some sort showing that they passed the course?............:confused:
Big Teddy :munchin
greenberetTFS
11-07-2011, 16:42
Wenches have been around since Eve. Now, all of a sudden, they're capable of becoming commandoes?
Nah.
The Amazons!.......... :cool:
Big Teddy :munchin
The Reaper
11-07-2011, 19:46
Herr Goebbels would be proud of this article.
So now, passing a PT test and humping half of the weight and distance of an EIB road march is a Herculean feat?
Please.:rolleyes:
TR
Hm, claiming that these broads are SOF is like saying that changing airplanes in Dallas means you are a Texan...
Hm, claiming that these broads are SOF is like saying that changing airplanes in Dallas means you are a Texan...
:D You nailed it, with that one.
Dreadnought
11-08-2011, 07:49
To counteract the lower standard of training (physical and otherwise) that they are subject to and must ultimately meet, and which will probably reassure some of you, is the fact that there are certain METT-TC dependent mission criteria which would preclude CST from going out with the primary AF.
Speaking about TABs,do the female warriors that passed the CST training get a TAB of some sort showing that they passed the course?............:confused:
Big Teddy :munchin
No, no tab or anything.
The issue with psyops/ca is the kids go from AIT to a unit. There is no gate to pass thru besides AIT (hardly a gate).....SOCOM has been articulating this to that CMF and they came up with this program...not to be 'operators' per se but to weed out weakl links. However, I suspect they feel loke 'operators' now!
Buffalobob
11-08-2011, 14:31
They at least have the courage and desire to go into a war zone and serve their country which is better than 99% of the male population is willing to do. Courage is courage, irregardless of physical condition or gender. It is gratifying to see women who have the courage to serve and give their life because they love this nation.
frostfire
11-08-2011, 18:46
They at least have the courage and desire to go into a war zone and serve their country which is better than 99% of the male population is willing to do. Courage is courage, irregardless of physical condition or gender. It is gratifying to see women who have the courage to serve and give their life because they love this nation.
Concur.
I can't argue against any of the objections thrown already. But having talked to some in the pipeline, some who are in, and especially the ones injured, you just gotta love that burning fire, that determined look in their eyes....even when it's through tears..........ok, I admit, she was pretty :p
Would sure make me happy...just kidding I'm not a douche.
Or am I for being a 31b?
No, you're a soldier that stepped up, put your life on the line and (hopefully) does your job to the very best of your ability. Nothing dishonorable with that in the least.
Well, they've given me the inspiration I need to try out for the Pistons.