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Another Chicken Shit Cop
http://www.fingerlakesdailynews.com/news/details.cfm?clientid=16&id=2066
Rochester Woman Arrested For Videotaping Traffic Stop
"......I don't feel safe with you standing behind me............."
She was standing in her own yard.
Red Flag 1
06-23-2011, 09:33
Another Chicken Shit Cop
http://www.fingerlakesdailynews.com/news/details.cfm?clientid=16&id=2066
Rochester Woman Arrested For Videotaping Traffic Stop
"......I don't feel safe with you standing behind me............."
She was standing in her own yard.
I am very confidant that the ACLU would like to come to the aid of this abused and harassed citizen.
RF 1
Photography is Not a Crime
http://www.pixiq.com/contributors/248
Checking through his listing of "altercations" you'll find where the cops took a number of news cameras.
Cops wonder why the everyday citizen either doesn't want to cooperate or is suspect of the dealing with the police. Putting more pressure on the citizenry to comply with any action on their part is not helping their case.
Not to say that there aren't good cops out there, but this trend of police officers to arrest people who are simply filming them isn't sitting well with me.
Here all this time I thought in America my land was my land. I guess it's my land until the cops decide to walk right on it and arrest me.
I particularly enjoy the part where the cop seemingly just says screw it I'm just going to arrest you because I can.
Surgicalcric
06-23-2011, 09:48
WOW...
Thats about all I can formulate at this moment...
greenberetTFS
06-23-2011, 10:29
What bullshit!........:rolleyes:
Big Teddy :munchin
I like few cops, those that I do, I love like brothers.
This guy gives a new meaning to "protect and serve".
As an LEO, I do not understand taking someone's cell phone or camera or whatever. I know a few states, like Maryland, have laws prohibiting the videoing of officers in the conduct of their duty. I have been taped many times. It never bothered me. If someone was making me nervous, I just keep an eye on them. If they start interfering with whatever I am doing, yes, they are going to jail.
As with most clips of this nature on the internet, there is some context that is probably missing. The girl did state that the one being arrested from the traffic stop was her friend. What else was going on in the area at the time? Does NY have a similar law to Maryland? Too many questions to make a certain judgement of wrongdoing on the officer's part.
And we don't have jackbooted stormtroopers here?
And we don't have jackbooted stormtroopers here?
I would say that if a soldier was caught abusing civilians they would go to jail or some other form of punishment.
It's looking like Cops are getting a pat on the back from the Mayor and some drinks after work for doing the same thing.
With the explosion of phone cameras and small cam-corders are we begining to see the true face of our neighborhood police?
There does not seem to be much outrage from supervisors and civilian leadership in the locations where this is happening.
What ever happened to Officer Friendly?
greenberetTFS
06-23-2011, 13:05
You know what's really sad,most LEO's I know are 1st class officers,it's a bitch when just one like this spoils the reputation of the rest!...........:(
Big Teddy :munchin
That almost seemed like an episode from the Twilight Zone.
The woman was a little bit of a butthead. She almost seemed as if she wanted to argue a bit with the officer.
But, the officer was way out of line. I do not believe that he actually thought of the woman as a threat. The only threat that I could see was the camera which was not his nor under his control.
I can understand his reluctance to being filmed since the majority of the public has not walked a foot, never mind a mile, in a police officer's shoes and almost always misinterpret what they see. But this officer is going to have to become less camera shy or find a different line of work.
Damn near everyone has a cell phone that takes video as well as still shots. If you are not doing anything wrong, what do you really have to worry about?
Tress
monsterhunter
06-23-2011, 15:00
Cops wonder why the everyday citizen either doesn't want to cooperate or is suspect of the dealing with the police. Putting more pressure on the citizenry to comply with any action on their part is not helping their case.
Not to say that there aren't good cops out there, but this trend of police officers to arrest people who are simply filming them isn't sitting well with me.
Here all this time I thought in America my land was my land. I guess it's my land until the cops decide to walk right on it and arrest me.
I particularly enjoy the part where the cop seemingly just says screw it I'm just going to arrest you because I can.
That is a broad brush you're painting with.
What we got here is a total lack of respect for authority...better get JW Pepper on it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cP1ICm10Kk
...or Buford T Justice...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN3c64j2DPE
Richard :munchin
What we got here is a total lack of respect for authority...better get JW Pepper on it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cP1ICm10Kk
...or Buford T Justice...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN3c64j2DPE
Richard :munchin
Or a cop that tells a helicopter pilot to stop a '74 Charger.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKx8KUUF5E
Another Chicken Shit Cop
http://www.fingerlakesdailynews.com/news/details.cfm?clientid=16&id=2066
Rochester Woman Arrested For Videotaping Traffic Stop
"......I don't feel safe with you standing behind me............."
She was standing in her own yard.
Are there many other examples of so called Chicken Shit Cops. Based on the several million interactions between Cops and civilians every day, that is.
I watched a Special forces Soldier on TV shoot two innocent kids for no reason. Next time it happens don't get pissed if someone titles the thread. Another dumb ass Green Beret shoots an innocent Kid.
GratefulCitizen
06-23-2011, 16:31
Or a cop that tells a helicopter pilot to stop a '74 Charger.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKx8KUUF5E
Helicopter pilot and Vietnam Veteran Mike Silva ended a vehicle chase with his news helicopter in Denver sometime back in the late 80's.
FWIW, he deployed to Iraq in 2007, at age 57...
Are there many other examples of so called Chicken Shit Cops. ............
Lots at the link I posted. You might want to glance through it.
Red Flag 1
06-23-2011, 18:09
That almost seemed like an episode from the Twilight Zone.
The woman was a little bit of a butthead. She almost seemed as if she wanted to argue a bit with the officer.
But, the officer was way out of line. I do not believe that he actually thought of the woman as a threat. The only threat that I could see was the camera which was not his nor under his control.
I can understand his reluctance to being filmed since the majority of the public has not walked a foot, never mind a mile, in a police officer's shoes and almost always misinterpret what they see. But this officer is going to have to become less camera shy or find a different line of work.
Damn near everyone has a cell phone that takes video as well as still shots. If you are not doing anything wrong, what do you really have to worry about?
Tress
My point was what Tress had mentioned about the reluctance of the officer in being filmed doing his job. If everything went smooth as glass, there is no issue. Should things turn ugly, there is no telling what actions LE may have to take as a result. LE may have been trying to protect the identity of the person they are dealing with in the first place. There may have been a briefing item to officers to do just what the officer did. Once it is on film there is no erase; and millions could be watching. The event will be judged by those who are safe at home. This includes attorneys, media talking heads, actors, political activists, NAACP, ASPCA, ACLU, pick your favorite.............they will all line up to Monday morning Q-back the event, and LE will pay the price. With that all in mind, do I want a "concerned and caring" critic filming my every word and motion? Hell no. Look what has happened so far. She did refuse to follow instructions from a police officer. To my ear, she was taunting the officer. Does that mean cuffs and an arrest? What if we learn that this person filming has a long history of bating the police? How about if there were beer cans and whiskey bottles all over the lawn out of camera range? LE has a pretty tough job as it is. A critic with a camera is not your friend, .........is she.
My right leaning $.02.
RF 1
mojaveman
06-23-2011, 19:23
I admire anyone who can work in that profession and remain optimistic, unjaded, and not become cynical. Law enforcement is like any other field though, there are good cops and there are bad ones. Since their invention and fielding, mini-cameras have done a lot to keep the good officers good. ;)
I admire anyone who can work in that profession and remain optimistic, unjaded, and not become cynical. Law enforcement is like any other field though, there are good cops and there are bad ones. Since their invention and fielding, mini cameras have done a lot to keep the good officers good. ;)
Just like the military. The military is just a microcosm of society. You have good and bad in every organization that exists. Unfortunately that's because we are all human. It's just that some of the humans are POS oxygen thieves.
Are there many other examples of so called Chicken Shit Cops. Based on the several million interactions between Cops and civilians every day, that is.
I watched a Special forces Soldier on TV shoot two innocent kids for no reason. Next time it happens don't get pissed if someone titles the thread. Another dumb ass Green Beret shoots an innocent Kid.
Agree 100%. To be fair maybe the officers ego got the best of him.
My point was what Tress had mentioned about the reluctance of the officer in being filmed doing his job. If everything went smooth as glass, there is no issue. Should things turn ugly, there is no telling what actions LE may have to take as a result. LE may have been trying to protect the identity of the person they are dealing with in the first place. There may have been a briefing item to officers to do just what the officer did. Once it is on film there is no erase; and millions could be watching. The event will be judged by those who are safe at home. This includes attorneys, media talking heads, actors, political activists, NAACP, ASPCA, ACLU, pick your favorite.............they will all line up to Monday morning Q-back the event, and LE will pay the price. With that all in mind, do I want a "concerned and caring" critic filming my every word and motion? Hell no. Look what has happened so far. She did refuse to follow instructions from a police officer. To my ear, she was taunting the officer. Does that mean cuffs and an arrest? What if we learn that this person filming has a long history of bating the police? How about if there were beer cans and whiskey bottles all over the lawn out of camera range? LE has a pretty tough job as it is. A critic with a camera is not your friend, .........is she.
My right leaning $.02.
RF 1
If she had been in his face, fine. She was not. there was no excuse for his behavior nor any reason to fear a camera.
99meters
06-23-2011, 20:41
What ever happened to Officer Friendly?
Sometimes he gets lucky and retires never having to clear leather. Other times he gets his ass kicked, gets shot, or gets his buddies shot.
That is a broad brush you're painting with.
I fail to see this.
monsterhunter
06-23-2011, 23:51
I fail to see this.
Ok then. Tell me what I'm wondering, or what my partner is wondering or thinking. You don't have a clue. You think we don't watch the news or hear the critics? Do you think if a soldier screws up and the public gets bent that all soldiers wonder what the public is upset about. Or could it be that when something like this happens, rather than just wonder, some of us or most of us shake our heads in disappointment of what happened and wait for people like you to group us all together. It's a team but we're all individuals who think for ourselves. You get an opinion and you are free to voice it, but when you do, realize that someone else may call bullshit.
Texas_Shooter
06-24-2011, 00:23
She was given an order by a peace officer, she failed to follow the command and she was arrested for it.
But he should of ignored her to begin with.
She was given an order by a peace officer, she failed to follow the command and she was arrested for it.
Dude, this isn't Soviet Russia.
Texas_Shooter
06-24-2011, 00:55
Dude, this isn't Soviet Russia.
LOL. Well here in Soviet Texas, it is law that you follow a lawful order of a peace officer.
LOL. Well here in Soviet Texas, it is law that you follow a lawful order of a peace officer.
I don't think he gave her a lawful order.
...it is law that you follow a lawful order of a peace officer.
Exactly.
LOL. Well here in Soviet Texas, it is law that you follow a lawful order of a peace officer.
What ever comes out of a police officers mouth does not equate to a lawful order. He ordered her about on her own property when she was clearly not a threat. F--- him. That kind of attitude from him, or you, is dangerous to all parties involved. What if it had been someone other than a young lady? Or maybe in a more rural and isolated setting? That sort behavior (the cop) puts him and his partner at risk. He's an idiot.
Ok then. Tell me what I'm wondering, or what my partner is wondering or thinking. You don't have a clue. You think we don't watch the news or hear the critics? Do you think if a soldier screws up and the public gets bent that all soldiers wonder what the public is upset about. Or could it be that when something like this happens, rather than just wonder, some of us or most of us shake our heads in disappointment of what happened and wait for people like you to group us all together. It's a team but we're all individuals who think for ourselves. You get an opinion and you are free to voice it, but when you do, realize that someone else may call bullshit.
I think you are the one that is painting with a broad brush. Why don't you point out what I said that you have a problem with instead of just going off. I said there are good officers out there but this trend which is what it is is bull. You don't have to get all butt hurt because of that.
The good cops should be the loudest voice when something like this happens. However, that is rarely the case.
colmurph
06-24-2011, 07:24
Somebody once told me that policemen are "Border line sociopaths" and that policwe work draws people that could easily have become criminals. I believe it.
Surgicalcric
06-24-2011, 07:30
LOL. Well here in Soviet Texas, it is law that you follow a lawful order of a peace officer.
Define what a lawful order is and is not.
The idea that a person has to obey any order given them by a LEO, that doesn't force the individual to commit a crime, as a lawful order is comical at best...
BTW he would have had to take me to jail as well because I be damned if I am going to follow the direction of a person, while standing on my property, because they feel like pushing their weight around.
Well here in Soviet Texas...
Give me a call - I'll be glad to help you pack and move to another state of your choice.
As for this thread - I'm standing in my yard watching something like that and doing nothing which in the broadest sense of the term would be considered a threat by a reasonable person and get threatened with arrest for my reluctance to follow an unreasoanble demand...well, I just might then become a threat to somebody...just sayin'...
Richard :munchin
99meters
06-24-2011, 08:15
Somebody once told me that policemen are "Border line sociopaths" and that policwe work draws people that could easily have become criminals. I believe it.
That is funny, half the guys in my department are ex-military. The ex-military guys also lead the department in complaints against them. Even the air force guys. What kind of people does the military draw?
PedOncoDoc
06-24-2011, 08:21
Somebody once told me that policemen are "Border line sociopaths" and that policwe work draws people that could easily have become criminals. I believe it.
I'll have to vehemently disagree with this blanket statement. True, it has been documented that some infamous sociopaths and serial killers have attempted to enter law enforcement as a career, but most of the police officers I've personally known have been excellent people with a genuine love for the communities in which they serve.
YMMV...
I'll have to vehemently disagree with this blanket statement. True, it has been documented that some infamous sociopaths and serial killers have attempted to enter law enforcement as a career, but most of the police officers I've personally known have been excellent people with a genuine love for the communities in which they serve.
YMMV...
I think you are right. Most police officers that I have dealt with have been courteous and fairminded. They put their pants on like everyone else, have families, bills, etc. This guy, however, is still dorked up.
PedOncoDoc
06-24-2011, 08:50
This guy, however, is still dorked up.
Agree whole-heartedly. He is the exception -- not the rule -- IMHO.
One thing I did not mention earlier is that like seems to attract like with departments - I 'm sure all of us here have a particular town or part of a town in which we are much more vigilant in regulating our behavior (driving or otherwise) due to the reputation of the LEO's in that particular area. The village in which I grew up was notorious for harrassing people driving through whose cars the officers did not recognize as from the village. They've had multiple harrassment (racial profiling and otherwise) lawsuits, a negligent fatal shooting and other bad local and national press.
Perhaps some of the LEO's on here could share their thoguhs and experiences on this subject.
Somebody once told me that policemen are "Border line sociopaths" and that policwe work draws people that could easily have become criminals. I believe it.
Not sure who told you this but they had no idea WTF they were talking about. Believe as you like.
monsterhunter
06-24-2011, 12:41
Fng13, here it is as best I can explain it. You commented, "Cops wonder why the everyday citizen either doesn't want to cooperate or is suspect of the dealing with the police." I have a problem with this. You don't know what cops wonder. You have no idea. Are they telling you this? Are you talking about all cops, the cop in the video, or just the bad ones?
Why do you feel the rest of us should all be the loudest when something like this happens? Does every other profession go through the roof when someone else from their profession does badly? One reason we don't start calling for heads is that we are required to use self discipline and leave it to those who's job it is to fix it. This will be in the hands of internal affairs and the district attorney's office. Our saber rattling, we are warned, will only add to potential compromise and trial my media. We are free to say all we want after it's over, but the interest is lost by then.
I looked at the video this morning. I will go as far to say it doesn't look like anything I would have done, or allowed subordinates to do; however, I wasn't there before the tape was rolling. I'll even go as far as to say, at first blush only, my thought was along the same line that Pete used when he started the thread.
We are taped all the time. As long as it doesn't interfere with the investigation, the individual can tape all they wish (at least in my area - no laws against it). I've never had one come back and bite me yet.
As far as getting all "butt hurt", I don't think you understand. I don't have my feelings hurt. You mistook my disgust at what I felt from (in my opinion) your uneducated and unqualified opinion (for this subject only) in those two comments. Don’t misunderstand, I believe you are free to have and voice your opinion, but when you do (just like me) you are subject to the opinion of others.
Roguish Lawyer
06-24-2011, 13:05
While I don't agree with the arrest, you can't tell me that this woman wasn't trying to screw with the cops. The cops overreacted, but she's a rabble-rousing POS in my book.
Deadhead 63A1
06-24-2011, 13:17
Follow up from a community meeting of support for Emily Good: http://www.boingboing.net/2011/06/24/rochester-police-use.html
How do you apologists and loyal subjects of our badge-wearing overlords want to defend this one?
SpikedBuck
06-24-2011, 13:22
While I don't agree with the arrest, you can't tell me that this woman wasn't trying to screw with the cops. The cops overreacted, but she's a rabble-rousing POS in my book.
Tried to watch the video, but couldn't get it all...from what I did see, seems she was a little close to the action, unless she had a hell of a zoom lens. Maybe I'm getting too careful in my old age, but not sure it was smart of her to be so close to the "action." I'm thinking if the event went badly (i.e. forcible arrest, gun fire exchange, etc)...it would be a different story. Plus, does the driver have any rights? Privacy? Again, couldn't get the entire video to load...
Fng13, here it is as best I can explain it. You commented, "Cops wonder why the everyday citizen either doesn't want to cooperate or is suspect of the dealing with the police." I have a problem with this. You don't know what cops wonder. You have no idea. Are they telling you this? Are you talking about all cops, the cop in the video, or just the bad ones?
Why do you feel the rest of us should all be the loudest when something like this happens? Does every other profession go through the roof when someone else from their profession does badly? One reason we don't start calling for heads is that we are required to use self discipline and leave it to those who's job it is to fix it. This will be in the hands of internal affairs and the district attorney's office. Our saber rattling, we are warned, will only add to potential compromise and trial my media. We are free to say all we want after it's over, but the interest is lost by then.
I looked at the video this morning. I will go as far to say it doesn't look like anything I would have done, or allowed subordinates to do; however, I wasn't there before the tape was rolling. I'll even go as far as to say, at first blush only, my thought was along the same line that Pete used when he started the thread.
We are taped all the time. As long as it doesn't interfere with the investigation, the individual can tape all they wish (at least in my area - no laws against it). I've never had one come back and bite me yet.
As far as getting all "butt hurt", I don't think you understand. I don't have my feelings hurt. You mistook my disgust at what I felt from (in my opinion) your uneducated and unqualified opinion (for this subject only) in those two comments. Don’t misunderstand, I believe you are free to have and voice your opinion, but when you do (just like me) you are subject to the opinion of others.
That right there only goes so far with me. That argument may and does work for example if I were to be commenting on the job of a QP. However, my being a land owner, a citizen of the U.S educated in my rights, and having personal interactions with police officers qualifies me to look at that video and see that that police officer was in the wrong. I don't care if she told that cop to f*** off before the tape started rolling.
This idea that only cops can comment on the jobs of cops is bullshit and I get tired of hearing that argument. You aren't out there doing some top secret job of which the rest of us could have no idea about whether or not a police officer was doing something wrong when we see it. Is it a tough job? I'm sure. Does that make me think that cops should be able to go outside the law or abuse their power. Nope.
The reason I think other officers should be the loudest condemning the actions of an officer found to be in the wrong is because the argument is constantly brought up there 99% of the officers out there are good guys. Well what better way to prove it but condemning the wrong actions of an officer.
As far as my so called blanket statement. You are correct I don't have access to every police officer in the nations thoughts. You caught me. Perhaps the police do not wonder why many citizens would rather avoid any type of interactions with on duty police officers. Point in fact I did not say All Cops wonder, rather I said cops wonder. However I do know that there are many citizens who do not trust and would like to avoid any interactions with police.
I don't know why you continue to point out that I can have an opinion and you can have one too. That is well understood on my end. However, trying to say that my opinion is not valid simply because I'm not a cop is not going to fly with me.
Might I suggest that we take this to PM as our little quibble may be derailing this thread.
Roguish Lawyer
06-24-2011, 13:32
Tried to watch the video, but couldn't get it all...from what I did see, seems she was a little close to the action, unless she had a hell of a zoom lens. Maybe I'm getting too careful in my old age, but not sure it was smart of her to be so close to the "action." I'm thinking if the event went badly (i.e. forcible arrest, gun fire exchange, etc)...it would be a different story. Plus, does the driver have any rights? Privacy? Again, couldn't get the entire video to load...
On privacy, the answer is yes, to a degree. You can't use someone's likeness for commercial purposes without consent, at least in some states.
If there was a traffic stop in front of my house, I might want to see what was going on, but I certainly wouldn't be getting anywhere close to the cops let alone videotaping them unless I thought something wrong was taking place. This woman was an intentional distraction and should be ashamed of herself IMO.
This woman was an intentional distraction and should be ashamed of herself IMO.
You're right about that. She was trying to make an "I can do this statement". She is an idiot as well as the cop. How about that?
Snaquebite
06-24-2011, 13:34
Follow up from a community meeting of support for Emily Good: http://www.boingboing.net/2011/06/24/rochester-police-use.html
How do you apologists and loyal subjects of our badge-wearing overlords want to defend this one?
Wow...talk about selective enforcement...
If there was a traffic stop in front of my house, I might want to see what was going on, but I certainly wouldn't be getting anywhere close to the cops let alone videotaping them unless I thought something wrong was taking place. This woman was an intentional distraction and should be ashamed of herself IMO.
Ah...but the temptation of being recognized as having recorded and posted what could become a...Ta da!...viral video. :rolleyes:
I think we sometimes forget just how much social networking media has influenced several generations of Americans now who seek to video and take pics of everything...and then post them - whether they should or not - on the WWW seeking their 15 seconds of fame.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
Red Flag 1
06-24-2011, 14:13
While I don't agree with the arrest, you can't tell me that this woman wasn't trying to screw with the cops. The cops overreacted, but she's a rabble-rousing POS in my book.
That is what I thought RL. Her tone seemed to be a bit taunting as she interacted with the officer. It seemed to me that her every reply dug a deeper hole for her. She seemed to want to be a participant; as she was in the end.
YMMV
RF 1
You're right about that. She was trying to make an "I can do this statement". She is an idiot as well as the cop. How about that?
No god dammit, I want to fight....:D
There are something like 600,000 cops in the US. I am going to blame the person who came up with the Bell Shape curve. With that many people, we are going to have a few that are off of the reservation.
Utah Bob
06-24-2011, 16:00
When I became a soldier, I was called a baby killer.
When I became a cop, I was called a Nazi.
Actually I was neither. But there were a few. A very few.
People who want to characterize either group as evil are generally not going to listen to arguments that most individuals in these groups are hard working and dedicated to do the right thing. Neither profession is easy. You need a thick skin to do it. Mine got thick and I learned not to waste time arguing with those who wanted to paint us all with a broad brush. It is what it is.
Now:
Incidents like the one being discussed here make those of us who wore the badge angry. Generally such cases are ultimately the result of poor leadership at the top who fail to identify problem officers and take corrective action because
A. It's a brotherhood, and
B. It's difficult and expensive to get replacements
Incompetent leadership in either law enforcement or the military is a cancer that needs to be cut out. Too many police "leaders" are concerned with the bottom line and their careers rather than sticking to the basic principles of policing that were formulated back in 1829 by Robert Peel in London. One of the most important of those basic principles is
"The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon public approval of police actions."
If you lose the public's approval, you lose the ability to effectively do the job. It's not rocket science.
Utah Bob
06-24-2011, 16:03
Ah...but the temptation of being recognized as having recorded and posted what could become a...Ta da!...viral video. :rolleyes:
I think we sometimes forget just how much social networking media has influenced several generations of Americans now who seek to video and take pics of everything...and then post them - whether they should or not - on the WWW seeking their 15 seconds of fame.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
I'm shooting for 18. Just biding my time for the right opportunity.
It worked for Weiner. :D:rolleyes:
There are something like 600,000 cops in the US. I am going to blame the person who came up with the Bell Shape curve. With that many people, we are going to have a few that are off of the reservation.Decades from now, when eggheads write the history of America during GWOT, I hope some enterprising social historians and/or cliometricians and/or military historians give some thoughts to how OEF and OIF impacted the LEO population. In addition to the issues of social networking and attention whoring (this is an academic term) that QP Richard raised, questions for consideration include:
Did the deployment of so many servicemen and women abroad affect the pool of available civilians going into law enforcement?
Did GWOT as a cultural concept change the way many LEOs saw themselves and civilians?
Did the massive amount of money spent domestically on GWOT related activities impact the way LEOs were trained?
To what extent did the housing bubble and the expansion of home ownership shape police-civilian relations? (Were more and more LEOs living a considerable distance from the communities they policed? Did this separation lead to a disconnect between individual officers and the civilians they protected? Were altered work schedules and commute distances sources of additional stress?
monsterhunter
06-24-2011, 17:04
Follow up from a community meeting of support for Emily Good: http://www.boingboing.net/2011/06/24/rochester-police-use.html
How do you apologists and loyal subjects of our badge-wearing overlords want to defend this one?
I won't defend it at all. I agree it looks terrible and may be exactly what it appears to be on the video. If this is the case, storm clouds are on the horizon for that department. I'll offer a fictitious story to this one, based on several actual incidents to indicate my thought:
The individuals at the home are a constant burden to everyone on the street. They have had brushes with the law on several occasions and someone from there family may be in jail. The citizens who are neighbors are fed up with the constant problems coming from this house and routinely call the police demanding they do their job. They are tired of the excess noise, problem individuals brought in by these residents, etc.
This family decides they are going to rally their friends about the prior incident, come up with a big plan, get the officer fired and get paid in the process. The neighbors get all bent out of shape again because all these people are at the problem house again. They demand the police come out and deal with the parking issues and the noise.
Whoever is sent over to the home (should a least be a supervisor after the prior incident) tells them they must hold it down and some of their cars are parked illegally. They refuse to move any vehicles and tell the officers, "What are you going to do? Arrest us all like you did her?"
The cops start writing out parking cites. Now the video comes out and this is all we see. Their cause is bolstered and the cops look even worse.
This is no fairy tail. I'm not saying this is what happened. What I am saying is that this type of thing happens all the time. These cops may be bad, but I will wait to say because I just don't know. I believe anyone on this board who has been in law enforcement for any length of time will have to agree that this made up story I provided is not an uncommon event.
Trip_Wire (RIP)
06-24-2011, 17:15
As an LEO, I do not understand taking someone's cell phone or camera or whatever. I know a few states, like Maryland, have laws prohibiting the videoing of officers in the conduct of their duty. I have been taped many times. It never bothered me. If someone was making me nervous, I just keep an eye on them. If they start interfering with whatever I am doing, yes, they are going to jail.
As with most clips of this nature on the internet, there is some context that is probably missing. The girl did state that the one being arrested from the traffic stop was her friend. What else was going on in the area at the time? Does NY have a similar law to Maryland? Too many questions to make a certain judgement of wrongdoing on the officer's part.
I agree with you!
GratefulCitizen
06-24-2011, 17:16
Follow up from a community meeting of support for Emily Good: http://www.boingboing.net/2011/06/24/rochester-police-use.html
That's an odd tactic.
Never get in pissing contests with beligerents or drunks.
They have more piss.
Utah Bob
06-24-2011, 17:38
Originally Posted by colmurph View Post
Somebody once told me that policemen are "Border line sociopaths" and that policwe work draws people that could easily have become criminals. I believe it.
One of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read here.:rolleyes:
mojaveman
06-24-2011, 18:35
Somebody once told me that policemen are "Border line sociopaths" and that policwe work draws people that could easily have become criminals. I believe it.
He-he-he...
Two friends that I went through school with got into some trouble when they were juveniles and both ended up with misdemeanor convictions.
Middle aged now, one is a Sergeant in the local Sheriff's Department and the other works internal investigations in the California Highway Patrol. :D :p
Both good guys by the way...
Cops wonder why the everyday citizen either doesn't want to cooperate or is suspect of the dealing with the police.
We all have opinions, how can one know what cops wonder, or what percent of the population doesn't want to cooperate or is suspect of dealing with the police? At the point and time the latter is the majority our society has some real problems since LEO reflect the society they serve.
For every damning unprofessional event ( as this incident appears) which makes the MSM, how many times did LEO quietly and professionally perform a dangerous job without acclaim?
Cops are humans it's a mixed bag. I met some great guys from LE in GA, at a shooting school I still keep in touch with. At the same time I played football in school with quite a number of guys who were bullies, several gravitated towards the power trip of a gun and a badge, a few of them ended up behind bars themselves.
You will see the full gamut of humans in any field.
One of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read here.:rolleyes:
I wonder if the person actually knows any cops. The best definition that I heard about cops where, "They are roving secretaries." One department that I had oversight on, the average officer at the beginning of their shift had over 8 hours of paper work that needed to be done. Then they will have all the work of their 8 hour shift to do.
Other aspects, there are times when it is best to confront the police. That is after the event. If it is a local PD, one can file a complaint there, or with the state police (depends on what the methods that are set up in one's area).
The assumption that cops are jack boot thugs or sociopaths are way off.
As it has been mentioned, In the performance of their duties, officers do not need some self appointed citizen defender of the people interfering with the performance of their duties. LEO has it's inherent risks and interference adds to that risk.
Each department is or can be very unique compared to another, even painting all departments with the same brush is naive at best. Each department has their own criteria for employment and training. Some lead the way with better employed standards and better trained individuals, some seriously need to get up to speed.
Cops are not gunfighters, soldiers, and most will never use their side arms. Training for many departments, with budget cuts, is hit and miss. When we consider that the average work year is 2,000 hours and then we times that by 600,000 LEO, this one incident does not say anything about the LEO as whole, just this one officer.
IMHO, part of the problem today, is that the media is hungry, with 24/7 news and making it exciting and grabbing their market share adds to misinformation that is being given. The other part is our own share of the public that should not have anything modern device. Look at a fight, or a assault taking place with the number of people standing around videoing it while some person is being injured/killed.
My experience with LE, as a member of several departments and as elected official I believe the majority are really good people, who try to do their best even in the face of a sometimes hostile public. Then there are people who, let's say, naturally just do not like the LEOs. I think we have all experienced those types.
I agree with everything you just said. However, that cop was a jackbooted thug. And there are jackbooted stormtroopers out there, even though they are in the minority (just like there are in the military). To make matters worse, watch the Rochester police the next day at a rally to show support for that dingbat woman:
http://www.boingboing.net/2011/06/24/rochester-police-use.html
Could they make matters any worse? The leadership of that department has got issues.
R3V3LATIONS
06-25-2011, 14:52
Should have just gone into the house. What people dont get is this, citizens get the last word, cops get the last action. Piss cops off enough, they can find something to charge you with. Is it right? maybe, it depends. In this case, she was WAY too close to that officer searching the passenger side. Did not help her case that she said it was her friend being arressted. Clearly a case of resisting arrest (interfering with the lawful detention of another) and FIY: some departments have policy authoring the use of less than lethal force for what she did. Anyone ever heard of Cecil Thomas? His daughter got zapped by a city cop for close to the same thing....and he was on city council!
Anyways, the officer seemed new, probably overreacted and could have verabalized his sentences differently to get a better end result. No one got hurt, so thats the important part.
Cop and woman were both dicks. There, one sentence:)
I agree with everything you just said. However, that cop was a jackbooted thug. And there are jackbooted stormtroopers out there, even though they are in the minority (just like there are in the military). To make matters worse, watch the Rochester police the next day at a rally to show support for that dingbat woman:
http://www.boingboing.net/2011/06/24/rochester-police-use.html
Could they make matters any worse? The leadership of that department has got issues.
I agree with you.
Cop and woman were both dicks. There, one sentence:)
Pretty much a synopsis of what happens.
Time for the Rochester city council to take action, if they don't then the citizens of Rochester need to act.
Bad Tolz
06-27-2011, 12:51
My reply is based on the assumption that the video is accurate in depicting the "totality of the circumstances."
Given that, the young officer was relatively professional and courteous in his commands. However, he was wrong. It will become a painful lesson, but those tend to stick. The young lady deserves an apology.
It takes years to become a reasonably effective officer. The learning curve means mistakes and you hope you don't make fatal ones. Some do and become training lessons and FBI statistics on killed in the line of duty.
The challenge of becoming a good officer is learning the technical, tactical and human interaction skills that allow you to survive and do your job, which is to "Protect and Serve."
The most respected officers I know viewed their profession as a "calling" and not just a job. I made dumb mistakes as a young pup that still embarass me.
It's unfortunate one of the other officers didn't say, "Hey partner, can I talk to you for a second."
Many, if not most officers I have known would risk their safety (and some lost their lives) for another in jeapardy. In that respect, there is common ground between combat and the extremes of police work.
monsterhunter
06-27-2011, 13:07
My reply is based on the assumption that the video is accurate in depicting the "totality of the circumstances."
Given that, the young officer was relatively professional and courteous in his commands. However, he was wrong. It will become a painful lesson, but those tend to stick. The young lady deserves an apology.
It takes years to become a reasonably effective officer. The learning curve means mistakes and you hope you don't make fatal ones. Some do and become training lessons and FBI statistics on killed in the line of duty.
The challenge of becoming a good officer is learning the technical, tactical and human interaction skills that allow you to survive and do your job, which is to "Protect and Serve."
The most respected officers I know viewed their profession as a "calling" and not just a job. I made dumb mistakes as a young pup that still embarass me.
It's unfortunate one of the other officers didn't say, "Hey partner, can I talk to you for a second."
Many, if not most officers I have known would risk their safety (and some lost their lives) for another in jeapardy. In that respect, there is common ground between combat and the extremes of police work.
Very well said sir.
Charge dismissed against woman who videotaped police encounter
http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/06/27/new.york.police.video/
"................Additionally, the statement said an internal review would be conducted into a separate incident in which tickets were given "for parking violations of vehicles belonging to members of an organization associated with Ms. Good."
According to Good, the statement refers to an episode on June 23, when police carrying rulers showed up outside a meeting at a community center supporting her and began issuing tickets to cars parked more than 12 inches from the curb.
Both incidents "raise issues with respect to the conduct of Rochester police officers that require an internal review," the statement said................."
Deadhead 63A1
06-27-2011, 17:34
Both incidents "raise issues with respect to the conduct of Rochester police officers that require an internal review," the statement said................."
Let me translate that for you: "We're conducting an internal review, the results of which you'll never see or hear about. That's because 'internal review' is code for 'we're going to give the appearance of taking action until such time that the drive-by media's attention has shifted, thus allowing us to sweep this under the rug and return to business as usual.'"
...[Y]ou can't tell me that this woman wasn't trying to screw with the cops. The cops overreacted, but she's a rabble-rousing POS in my book.Agreed. She turned on the waterworks so quickly one would think she was watching The Oprah Winfrey Show.
She could have just as easily turned off the camera after the officer made his request and then taken that video to the Rochester PD and asked "Was this request legitimate?" MOO, by putting the video on YouTube, she's indicating that she wants attention more than she wants professionalism from her local police.
The last time I challenged a LEO's authority to tell me what to do was in the early 1990s. He cited the law chapter and verse while one of the other officers there put his hand on his weapon and the GSD in the back of one of the prowl cars grunted something that sounded like "It's dinner time.":eek: So I complied.:)
FWIW, the LAPD and other SoCal LEOs have gone from treating some traffic stops as if they may become violent to taking that stance at all traffic stops. That is, the hot babe in a Prius gets treated the same as the homeboy in the Cadillac--an officer standing in a blind spot on the passenger's side with his hand on his weapon.
IME, they do let their state of vigilance get in the way of common sense. That is, they keep their eyes on the folks in the car but don't try to intimidate passers by.
blacksmoke
06-27-2011, 18:26
Whether that was a lawful order or not can be the difference between rightful authority and tyranny. Don't almost all police cars have dashbord camreras now anyway? What was the real problem?
Whether that was a lawful order or not can be the difference between rightful authority and tyranny. Don't almost all police cars have dashbord camreras now anyway? What was the real problem?Ms. Good and her supporters offer their take in the following news story. (Some background is here (http://rochesterhomepage.net/fulltext?nxd_id=220016).) Source is here (http://www.whec.com/news/stories/s2174896.shtml).Case dismissed against woman arrested while videotaping police
Posted at: 06/27/2011 1:37 PM | Updated at: 06/27/2011 4:28 PM
By: Ray Levato | WHEC.com
The case against a Rochester woman arrested while videotaping police has been dismissed.
Early Monday afternoon, demonstrators rallied outside the Hall of Justice in support of Emily Good, the city woman who was arrested while videotaping police officers during a traffic stop on May 12 in front of her 19th Ward home. (Click here to watch the video)
Good kept recording police officers while standing in her front yard even though an officer ordered her several times go inside. She was charged with obstructing of governmental administration. Since then, the video from that night has made it onto news shows across the country.
Good's attorney, Stephanie Stare, had asked for the charges to be dismissed. In court today, the District Attorney's office says based on a review of the evidence, there was no legal basis to go forward. The charge was withdrawn and the judge dismissed the case.
Several of Good's supporters who filled the small courtroom quietly cheered as the case was dismissed. They hugged her outside the courtroom and Good said "I think there are weaknesses in the brotherhood of the police, and they are not above the law."
Good was asked if she would do it over again. "Yes, I would do it again. And I would encourage other people to do the same thing. Carry a camera. Stand your ground. Go to the seen of flashing lights and observe what's going on. Keep a safe distance."
News 10 NBC's Ray Levato asked "Do you think there is racial profiling going on?" Good answered, "Everyday. Everyday. Absolutely."
KaeLyn Rich, a spokeswoman for the Rochester office of the New York Civil Liberties Union afterwards called city police actions "a disgusting disregard for an individual's First Amendment rights to videotape in public spaces. I hope we can repair the relationship between the community and the police by holding police accountable, and making sure police officers are getting the training they need to respect people's constitutional rights."
Supporter Rev. Willie Harvey of the Peace baptist Church said "the police did the wrong thing."
City activist Howard Eagle, a spokesman for a Rochester anti-racism movement said "This case really is about racial profiling. That's the reason why Emily Good grabbed her camera in the first place and began to record the activity of the police. She suspected that a young black man was being racially profiled."
A joint statement issued by Mayor Tom Richards, City Council President Lovely Warren and Rochester Police Chief James Sheppard says they support the decision of the District Attorney's Office to dismiss the charges against Good.
The statement says whatever the specific circumstances that led to Good's arrest, they see no purpose in pursuing the criminal charges.
The statement continues, "We believe that the incident that led to Ms. Good's arrest and the subsequent ticketing for parking violations of vehicles belonging to members of an organization associated with Ms. Good raise issues with respect to the conduct of Rochester Police Officers that require an internal review. A review into both matters has been initiated."
"Police officers must be able to cope with a high degree of stress while performing oftentimes dangerous duties, relying on their training and experience to guide their behavior. As routine as a traffic stop may appear, it has proven over time to be a potentially dangerous activity for police. Nonetheless, police must conduct themselves with appropriate respect for the rights of those involved or who are observing their actions."
"There is a mandated legal process that governs our internal response when police officer behavior is called into question. We must respect this process and that may be frustrating to those who may have already made up their mind about the outcome. We have confidence that the review will be fair and impartial and invite Ms. Good and anyone else with firsthand information to participate. We will withhold our judgment until the review is completed."
"Whatever the outcome of the internal review, we want to make clear that it is not the policy or practice of the Rochester Police Department to prevent citizens from observing its activities - including photographing or videotaping - as long as it does not interfere with the safe conduct of those activities. It is also not the policy or practice of the Department to selectively enforce laws in response to the activities of a group or individual. This has always been the case and it is being reinforced within the Department, so that it will be abundantly clear to everyone."
First things first. If ever there was a tandem made for double entendre it is the team of Good and Stare.
As to Ms. Good's recommendation that others engage in LEO monitoring techniques, I hope her mouth isn't writing a check that other residents in Rochester will have to cash one way or another.
monsterhunter
06-27-2011, 20:50
Let me translate that for you: "We're conducting an internal review, the results of which you'll never see or hear about. That's because 'internal review' is code for 'we're going to give the appearance of taking action until such time that the drive-by media's attention has shifted, thus allowing us to sweep this under the rug and return to business as usual.'"
We'll see what happens here. IA doens't hesitate to take out cops in my area. Something with this much attention will probably come out again when it's done. If everything turns out to be as it was on face value, and nothing is done about it, there may be a corruption problem.
Hopefully, the good people of Rochester will unite, the ones who have no problem with a hidden GPS recording their movements on public roads, those who have no problem with the old man who videotapes their daughters new bikini as it moves about the water park, an others of that sort.
I think it will be an awfully small crowd. :)
The double-standard people would be numerous, though.
There has to be more to this. I'm waiting for the "rest" of the story.
BingoBango
06-28-2011, 13:39
One thing that has been touched on lightly throughout this discussion is the first statement that comes out of Ms. Good's mouth, "that's my friend and I'm just recording what your doing."
That statement in and of itself with no other environmental additions automatically would draw my attention to her. If I'm the LEO on camera, then I have her friend (possibly boyfriend or relative) detained right in front of her (possibly his) house while she is filming me. The issue is not that she is filming me, it's that she is now personally involved with my actions just based on who I'm detaining. Some would argue that she's just a female, but I assure you that most females possess opposable thumbs that are capable of operating the same weapons us males can.
Another thing that needs to be considered in this situation is the area in which the incident occurred. There are places in my AO that I don't feel near as threatened when people exit their homes and watch what myself and fellow officers are doing. Then there are the area's in which it stays good to your well being that you maintain 100% SA with every person within sight. I'm not from Rochester and don't know the area in which the incident in question took place so I can't comment on such, just something to think about.
On the flip side, as a LEO I've been filmed on countless occasions and not once have I instructed someone to put their camera away. In this situation it's hard to Monday morning QB the actions as we don't know why the subject in handcuffs was being detained/arrested. However, it would seem that if the situation allowed for it, removing the detained subject from the scene would have been a acceptable alternative to what occurred.
On a side note, I realize this website is dedicated to Professional Soldiers, namely Special Forces of which the OP is and as such the following statement is directly towards Pete. I do not appreciate the title of this thread. I'm sure there have been a select few of QP's who have disgraced the heritage that is Special Forces however, I have the oversight to not group those very select few into a basket and make statements such as "Another chicken shit Green Beret."
......................On a side note, I realize this website is dedicated to Professional Soldiers, namely Special Forces of which the OP is and as such the following statement is directly towards Pete. I do not appreciate the title of this thread. I'm sure there have been a select few of QP's who have disgraced the heritage that is Special Forces however, I have the oversight to not group those very select few into a basket and make statements such as "Another chicken shit Green Beret."
We do have them - and when they step on their crank hard enough we call them on it. We don't cover for them.
Read long enough around here - or search if you want to - and you'll see that.
BingoBango
06-28-2011, 14:08
We do have them - and when they step on their crank hard enough we call them on it. We don't cover for them.
Read long enough around here - or search if you want to - and you'll see that.
Pete, I appreciate your respectful reply. However unless I misunderstood you, you call individuals out on whatever infraction they may have committed, I would doubt that you would title a thread concerning the same with "Another chicken shit Green Beret" would you? I'm not saying this LEO was in the right, nor am I saying that there aren't badge heavy cops either, but the above statement is inflammatory as it would be if I were to start a thread with the same title concerning a QP.
Pete, I appreciate your respectful reply. However unless I misunderstood you, you call individuals out on whatever infraction they may have committed, I would doubt that you would title a thread concerning the same with "Another chicken shit Green Beret" would you? I'm not saying this LEO was in the right, nor am I saying that there aren't badge heavy cops either, but the above statement is inflammatory as it would be if I were to start a thread with the same title concerning a QP.
Depends on where each thread is posted. I would think if I went to an LEO web site as a non-LEO I would think the members would focus on me and not the individual I was posting about.
Now if you feel your contributions to this site are best served by hunting up GBs who step on their cranks and posting the story here feel free - but I would suggest using the search function first. But if that becomes your life mission so to say, well, then............
Team Sergeant
06-28-2011, 14:18
Pete, I appreciate your respectful reply. However unless I misunderstood you, you call individuals out on whatever infraction they may have committed, I would doubt that you would title a thread concerning the same with "Another chicken shit Green Beret" would you? I'm not saying this LEO was in the right, nor am I saying that there aren't badge heavy cops either, but the above statement is inflammatory as it would be if I were to start a thread with the same title concerning a QP.
Enough.
Pete has already answered your question. We do call Green Berets on their mistakes and misdeeds. We don't have a union to fight for us, nor do we cover for each other when one screws up.
Entire post.[Comments about LEOs.]You are contradicting yourself.
If I'm the LEO on camera, then I have her friend (possibly boyfriend or relative) detained right in front of her (possibly his) house while she is filming me. The issue is not that she is filming me, it's that she is now personally involved with my actions just based on who I'm detaining. Some would argue that she's just a female, but I assure you that most females possess opposable thumbs that are capable of operating the same weapons us males can.
Sorry, but, so what? I wasn't there, but you can't watch that video and not come away with the feeling that the two of them were "one-upping" each other. The police officer has a responsibility to keep his emotions in check. In the short-term , the cop won, because he has arrest powers. Watching the subsequent days video of ticketing, and the Rochester Police lost on this one and you don't need to see anymore than what has already been shown to come to that conclusion.
Having said all that, it would have been really cool to see him tase her!
Team Sergeant
06-28-2011, 14:40
You are contradicting yourself.
Thank you Dr. Phil.........:rolleyes:
... it would have been really cool to see him tase her!
Now that would have been funny.
The arrestee is a pinko commie agitator. Ms. Good, if you check on her, is an ass.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/%E2%80%98take-back-the-land%E2%80%99-woman-arrested-for-videotaping-police%E2%80%A6has-a-long-history-of-radical-confrontation/
Blue
The arrestee is a pinko commie agitator. Ms. Good, if you check on her, is an ass.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/%E2%80%98take-back-the-land%E2%80%99-woman-arrested-for-videotaping-police%E2%80%A6has-a-long-history-of-radical-confrontation/
Blue
As usual, there is more than first meets the eye. This brings up more questions. Was the property she was arrested from actually hers to begin with? Or was this one of those houses she and her group were squatting on in order to prevent it being sold by the rightful owner? It adds another perspective to think about.
Roguish Lawyer
06-29-2011, 16:39
The arrestee is a pinko commie agitator. Ms. Good, if you check on her, is an ass.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/%E2%80%98take-back-the-land%E2%80%99-woman-arrested-for-videotaping-police%E2%80%A6has-a-long-history-of-radical-confrontation/
Blue
Shocking!
The arrestee is a pinko commie agitator. Ms. Good, if you check on her, is an ass...........
And that gives her less rights that you because.................?
Remember back in the day when good civilians would roll their lips, look down their nose and say "He's a GI".
The arrestee is a pinko commie agitator.
And? She still didn't look as if she was doing anything to reasonably warrant getting arrested in this instance to me; watched, yes...but arrested?
Richard :munchin
Utah Bob
06-30-2011, 04:55
Is a pinko commie less red than a regular commie but worse than just a pinko?
Such things confuse me.:rolleyes:
Richard
When someone goes looking for trouble they usually find it. She has a history of being an agitator. The middle of the night during an arrest is not really the time to do what she was doing.
She could have easily video taped from inside the house. Being a good citizen is a two way street, people like her don't believe that.
Blue
MOO, Ms. Good's track record of asshatery makes the Rochester PD look even worse.
They know she's a squeaky wheel and they respond by using rulers to measure the distances cars are parked from curbs and by arresting her for standing on her own yard.
If she's a communist, she's not a very good one. Her analysis of Rochester's ills center around race and place rather than socio economic class.