View Full Version : Beslan
I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/09/03/russia.school/index.html
I wonder who did it. Oh, Islamic terrorists? Shocker.
Jesus. And there are still people in this nation who argue with Bush's view that we should be fighting them over there, instead of over here? What is wrong with people nowadays?
The Reaper
09-03-2004, 20:33
I hate to say it, but I think the Russians just got a little payback for ignoring (if not supporting) the Islamic terrorist cause outside the FSU.
Maybe next time we ask for a little help they will be a little more supportive and cooperative.
At the same time, I feel for the kids, their families, and the soldiers who died.
Looked like a lot of conventional guys there for the assault, wonder where their first team was?
In the interim, the Russians might want to tighten up their border security with Chechnya.
Those people are serious, hard-core Tangos.
TR
Airbornelawyer
09-03-2004, 21:03
It is still too early to tell, but it does not look like there was a planned assault. Many of the terrorists were more like bandits, and once they decided there wasn't any profit, they decided to E&E. This led to a fight, and the Russian security forces had to go in without a well-laid plan.
Most of the conventional forces weren't there for the assault, but for security.
Compare the 1995 attack on Budyonnovsk, where a Chechen band assaulted the entire town, herding people into a hospital, then managed to slip out under the nose of MVD troops and police.
BTW, the terrorists were apparently a mix of Chechens, Ingush, Ossetians and (reportedly) Arabs. A couple who have been identified (including one ethnic Russian) are connected to Shamil Basayev.
And the hostages/victims? Mostly Ossetians, not ethnic Russians. And while most Ossetians are Orthodox Christian, many are themselves Muslim.
Oh, and while all of this is going on, a separatist war is simmering in South Ossetia, across the border in the Republic of Georgia. There, the Russians are fomenting the anti-government rebels.
And did I mention that in 1992, 35,000-65,000 Ingush were ethnically cleansed from North Ossetia by Ossetian paramilitaries with Russian acquiescence?
The Reaper
09-04-2004, 17:28
Interesting article, from the Russian side.
TR
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/09/03/002.html
Jesus. And there are still people in this nation who argue with Bush's view that we should be fighting them over there, instead of over here? What is wrong with people nowadays?
Agreed! Those who have murdered 155 children in the name of terrorism...I believe there is a special place in hell for them IMHO.
Holly :(
The link below is to a Moscow Times article telling of Putin lashing out at the U.S. for talks with the Chechens.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/09/08/002.html
Any background or analysis on this issue?
Is Putin just posturing here? Old frictions?
Airbornelawyer
09-08-2004, 12:13
The link below is to a Moscow Times article telling of Putin lashing out at the U.S. for talks with the Chechens.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/09/08/002.html
Any background or analysis on this issue?
Is Putin just posturing here? Old frictions?
A bit of my background and analysis is here: http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=38596&postcount=17
Informative, well written.
Thank-you, AL
Source is here (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/09/01/world/AP-EU-Russia-Beslan-Mourns.html?hp=&pagewanted=print).eptember 1, 2009
Russians Mark 5 Years Since Beslan Tragedy
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 1:55 p.m. ET
BESLAN, Russia (AP) -- Tuesday would have been Georgy Daurov's very first day of school. His mother, Svetlana, scoffed at the idea that the passage of time could ease the sorrow of losing her 2-year-old son five years ago in Russia's worst terrorist attack.
''Time heals all wounds -- the person who thought that up never had anyone die, never mind a young son,'' she said, tears streaming down her face. ''We live with this every day of our lives.''
The ragged wails of mothers, fathers, grandparents and neighbors echoed again out the jagged roof and broken windows of Beslan's School No. 1 on Tuesday. What is the first day of school for millions of children around Russia will forever be a day of unspeakable grief in this small town in the turbulent North Caucasus.
Thirty-two heavily armed militants seized the school on Sept. 1, 2004, herding more than 1,000 men, women and children into the gymnasium -- including parents and younger siblings who had accompanied the school-age boys and girls.
The militants -- from Chechnya and elsewhere -- demanded that Russian forces withdraw from the war-wracked republic.
The hostages were packed in for nearly three days, thirsty, hungry and terrified until the afternoon of Sept. 3, when mayhem and gunfire broke out after explosions tore through the gym, and images of bloodied, mostly naked children fleeing the crossfire shocked the world. In all, 334 people died -- more than half of them children.
The fallout was widespread, prompting President Vladimir Putin to push through sweeping changes to the electoral system that tightened the Kremlin's grip on the country's political life.
Five years ago, Beslan's residents reeled with grief for their dead and the shock of having their town turn into a battlefield for North Caucasus terrorism -- and the focus of the world's attention and empathy.
Now for many, grief has given way to simmering anger. They see that little has changed in their republic, North Ossetia -- and in the North Caucasus as a whole, where violence is spiking.
And few are satisfied with the official investigations, which have largely absolved police of blame for not preventing the attack.
Many residents also maintain that law enforcement agencies botched the rescue, using flame-throwers, grenade launchers and heavy guns that only made the situation worse. Survivors insist the explosions that sparked the chaos came from outside the building.
''The ones who are guilty in this tragedy here are not only the terrorists, but those who should have stopped them, the generals. And the authorities support them, they don't allow any (outside) investigation,'' said Ella Kesayeva, with the group Voice of Beslan.
Her daughter Zarima, who was 12 at the time, survived the ordeal. Her two nephews and brother-in-law did not.
The only attacker known to have survived, Nur-Pashi Kulayev, was sentenced to life in prison in 2006.
Scores of people -- many sobbing openly -- filed clockwise Tuesday through the burnt husk of the gymnasium, stopping to light candles or lay carnations on the floor. Bottles of water, in remembrance of the victims who drank nothing but their own urine, were propped on the edges of the room. Orthodox priests chanted the prayers for the dead.
At 9:15 a.m., a school bell rang to mark the moment five years ago when the children and parents gathered in the school yard for opening day ceremonies, sending waves of sobbing through the crowd.
''I can't do it, I can't do it. I can't go on anymore,'' shrieked one woman who staggered through the gym.
''Five years on and no one's been punished,'' yelled Matras Tsallagov, whose brother, sister-in-law and nephew all died in the siege.
''It's easier to visit the cemetery than to come here, where so many suffered for so long without help,'' said Fatima Lohova. Her brother Ruslan was shot by a terrorist sniper as he ran to save his 6-year-old niece, Dzerassa, on the first day of the ordeal. The girl died on the last day.
Svetlana Daurov, 40, said Georgy suffered through the thirst, the hunger, the heat and the fear along with her 12-year-old daughter, Alyona, and her mother-in-law, Inessa.
Her husband, Vadim, was killed on the first day, shot by a sniper as he heard gunfire and rushed to the school. Georgy died when shrapnel shredded his spine above his neck. Inessa was shot through the head from the front -- suspiciously, Daurov said, since her back was to the militants as she fled. Alyona is the only survivor.
Daurov pointed to a row of photographs of another mother and her four children, who all died during the siege, and sobbed.
''Either everyone should die immediately altogether as one family, or everyone should remain alive together as one family,'' she said. ''It shouldn't be that just some live and some die.''
In 2004, Beslan's streets were filled round-the-clock as residents stood vigil, waiting for scraps of information about relatives and jumping at the gunfire that erupted regularly between terrorists and police. Grenade explosions woke families from their sleep.
Bleary-eyed townspeople paced nervously in the courtyards, seeking shade from the southern sun and solace in the company of others. Many looked dimly at the hordes of reporters who swarmed the town, but welcomed the outpouring of sympathetic expressions from around the world.
Now, many victims and activists accuse the Kremlin of failing miserably at bringing peace to the North Caucasus, despite the sweeping political changes Putin pushed and his successor, Dmitry Medvedev, has continued.
A recent increase in violence across the region has further undermined the Kremlin's claims. In the republic of Dagestan on Tuesday, a passer-by was killed and 13 people wounded when a man detonated explosives in a car at a traffic police post.
Poverty, corruption and crime, radical Islam and heavy-handed government policies have all helped spawn desperation among the region's countless ethnic groups.
''Given the situation that you see in the Caucasus, we should all be terrorists now,'' Kesayeva said.
FWIW - the former Soviet republic of Chechnya-Ingushetia was a major issue with the Russians and us as far back as 1991 when we at the TAACOM and the On-Site Inspection Agency were worried about them, their rogue leader (a former soviet Air Force GO), and their access to unsecured NBC assets.
And so it goes...;)
Richard's $.02 :munchin
It is still too early to tell, but it does not look like there was a planned assault. Many of the terrorists were more like bandits, and once they decided there wasn't any profit, they decided to E&E. This led to a fight, and the Russian security forces had to go in without a well-laid plan.
Most of the conventional forces weren't there for the assault, but for security.
Compare the 1995 attack on Budyonnovsk, where a Chechen band assaulted the entire town, herding people into a hospital, then managed to slip out under the nose of MVD troops and police.
BTW, the terrorists were apparently a mix of Chechens, Ingush, Ossetians and (reportedly) Arabs. A couple who have been identified (including one ethnic Russian) are connected to Shamil Basayev.
And the hostages/victims? Mostly Ossetians, not ethnic Russians. And while most Ossetians are Orthodox Christian, many are themselves Muslim.
Oh, and while all of this is going on, a separatist war is simmering in South Ossetia, across the border in the Republic of Georgia. There, the Russians are fomenting the anti-government rebels.
And did I mention that in 1992, 35,000-65,000 Ingush were ethnically cleansed from North Ossetia by Ossetian paramilitaries with Russian acquiescence?
One thing the stuck with me from numerous Books and articles. Were the heroic actions from the Russian Soldiers during the fight. Those Men did an amazing job in situation that was nothing less then impossible. They went straight to the sound of the Guns. Didn't see to many Soldiers crouched behind Cars waiting for back up while gunfire could be heard inside a School full of kids.
Team Sergeant
09-02-2009, 07:06
One thing the stuck with me from numerous Books and articles. Were the heroic actions from the Russian Soldiers during the fight. Those Men did an amazing job in situation that was nothing less then impossible. They went straight to the sound of the Guns. Didn't see to many Soldiers crouched behind Cars waiting for back up while gunfire could be heard inside a School full of kids.
I thought the same thing.... ain't going to happen here in America.
And whos in charge now.....
Janet Napolitano = Owner of the "Longest Hostage Crisis in US History" (on US soil*)
(And let's not forget a female hostage was raped, dozens of times and Gov Janet Napolitano did nothing to stop it, nothing.)
an islamic hostage situation in America now would probably surpass 444 days......
Don't call me, send in a liberal, I'll be fishing.
Team Sergeant
* scumbag jummy carter owns the longest hostage situation in the world, 444 days.
I thought the same thing.... ain't going to happen here in America.
And whos in charge now.....
Janet Napolitano = Owner of the "Longest Hostage Crisis in US History" (on US soil*)
(And let's not forget a female hostage was raped, dozens of times and Gov Janet Napolitano did nothing to stop it, nothing.)
an islamic hostage situation in America now would probably surpass 444 days......
Don't call me, send in a liberal, I'll be fishing.
Team Sergeant
* scumbag jummy carter owns the longest hostage situation in the world, 444 days.
I knew when I typed it...... That you would read between the lines. Fortunately since Columbine. Active Shooter training is pretty much mandatory these days in the LEO world. The main teaching point always seems to be. You go in with what you got in order to engage the Shooter. Thats what your paid to do. Don't like it. Go look for a different line of work. A Go Bag in the Trunk full of extra Mags is also SOP in a lot of agency's.
When I Rail Marshall I only have four Mags on me. But I have a Bag at my feet with a bunch more. Many times a bag in the overhead with a Long Gun. Unlike Air Marshall's. We are not trapped in a flying tube. Our situation could evolve into an all day run and gun shoot out.
Loadsmasher
09-03-2009, 09:38
Janet Napolitano = Owner of the "Longest Hostage Crisis in US History" (on US soil*)
(And let's not forget a female hostage was raped, dozens of times and Gov Janet Napolitano did nothing to stop it, nothing.)
This post will probably make me look ignorant, but I had never even heard about this incident (In my defence I was deployed when it occured).
Now, after researching it, I'm almost in shock. This was a f**king travesty! Those POSs got a two week vacation and as a reward were transfered to prisons closer to home so they can see their families more often. They repeatedly raped that guard while the SWAT team was forced to be delivery boys for the festivities.
After a vacation to Arizona I considered it the only state I would voluntarily leave Texas to live in. After learning of this despicable situation, I don't know if I can say that anymore.
end of hijack.
Team Sergeant
09-03-2009, 10:38
This post will probably make me look ignorant, but I had never even heard about this incident (In my defence I was deployed when it occured).
Now, after researching it, I'm almost in shock. This was a f**king travesty! Those POSs got a two week vacation and as a reward were transfered to prisons closer to home so they can see their families more often. They repeatedly raped that guard while the SWAT team was forced to be delivery boys for the festivities.
After a vacation to Arizona I considered it the only state I would voluntarily leave Texas to live in. After learning of this despicable situation, I don't know if I can say that anymore.
end of hijack.
The real travesty of that hostage situation was that the SWAT teams had plenty of chances to end the situation as the criminals showed themselves throughout the standoff. Two bullets would have ended the siege and the female guard would have never been raped. The governor said "NO".
The fat, lesbian , ultra left wing janet napolitano will tell you "no one got hurt". (The female prison guard might have something else to say regarding that statement.)
If islamic terrorists stage an attack here in the United States similar to Beslan the turnout will be no different, except;
it will last over a year,
the left-wing headline's will read how the janet is determined there will be no bloodshed,
a national level Stockholm syndrome will occur and there be those demanding the release all the "illegally" held
Gitmo "detainees"
University of California, Berkeley students will be wearing tee-shirts with each of the Gitmo "detainees" pictures and the slogan will be "Allah Akbar Set them Free!!!"
attorney eric holder will order the release of the Gitmo detainee's
the detainee's with be flown back to most of the middle eastern countries and all receive a "Hero's" welcome.
the 60 seat left-wing senate will pass a bill demanding the United States recognize Sharia Law in all fifty states
the CIA will be publically ordered to HALT/CEASE all activities in the middle east and against all individuals that practice islam or might be muslim,
obama and congress will institute a "Church-Tax" and those billions will go to poor islamic children of North Africa
during the standoff janet napolitano will be interviewed on David Lettermen, Larry king live, and finally Oprah where they both cry about all the Somalia children that grew up without fathers because of Operation Restore Hope and now many of those desperate "children" are becoming pirates just to put "millions" on the table.....
the standoff will be made into a reality show "Can you survive an islamic hostage taking", guest stars will be the islamic terrorists playing "themselves".
Have no fear janet napolitano is now in charge of the security of the United States of America.
IMO the lunatics' are truly running the asylum.
TS
Oh and the Russians have the right idea, no negotiations kill all the jihadists (terrorists).
greenberetTFS
09-03-2009, 11:13
The real travesty of that hostage situation was that the SWAT teams had plenty of chances to end the situation as the criminals showed themselves throughout the standoff. Two bullets would have ended the siege and the female guard would have never been raped. The governor said "NO".
The fat, lesbian , ultra left wing janet napolitano will tell you "no one got hurt". (The female prison guard might have something else to say regarding that statement.)
If islamic terrorists stage an attack here in the United States similar to Beslan the turnout will be no different, except;
it will last over a year,
the left-wing headline's will read how the janet is determined there will be no bloodshed,
a national level Stockholm syndrome will occur and there be those demanding the release all the "illegally" held
Gitmo "detainees"
University of California, Berkeley students will be wearing tee-shirts with each of the Gitmo "detainees" pictures and the slogan will be "Allah Akbar Set them Free!!!"
attorney eric holder will order the release of the Gitmo detainee's
the detainee's with be flown back to most of the middle eastern countries and all receive a "Hero's" welcome.
the 60 seat left-wing senate will pass a bill demanding the United States recognize Sharia Law in all fifty states
the CIA will be publically ordered to HALT/CEASE all activities in the middle east and against all individuals that practice islam or might be muslim,
obama and congress will institute a "Church-Tax" and those billions will go to poor islamic children of North Africa
during the standoff janet napolitano will be interviewed on David Lettermen, Larry king live, and finally Oprah where they both cry about all the Somalia children that grew up without fathers because of Operation Restore Hope and now many of those desperate "children" are becoming pirates just to put "millions" on the table.....
the standoff will be made into a reality show "Can you survive an islamic hostage taking", guest stars will be the islamic terrorists playing "themselves".
Have no fear janet napolitano is now in charge of the security of the United States of America.
IMO the lunatics' are truly running the asylum.
TS
Oh and the Russians have the right idea, no negotiations kill all the jihadists (terrorists).
Well TS,You really shouldn't hold back like this...... ;) If you've got something to say about Janet,you should just let it out..............;)
Big Teddy :munchin
Us and a bunch of other Agency's set up Static displays one time. It was for some big press conference her and TSA did. Just by looking at her I could see that her pores sweat nothing but how she can keep her job, surrender to Terrorist, admire Woman with Crew Cuts and Flannel Shirts. The only person I ever stood in the same room with that disgusted me more was Nancy Pelosi.
ZonieDiver
09-03-2009, 14:12
The person in question. Decide for yourself! :D
The person in question. Decide for yourself! :D
THANKS..I just threw up in my mouth
ZonieDiver
09-03-2009, 14:26
THANKS..I just threw up in my mouth
Few are the women who should take fashion tips from HRC. Janet Reno (oops, Napolitano) is one of them. Sorry about the "mouth-puke"! :)