View Full Version : Report: Helo Pilots Get Secret Care to Save Careers
Glad it is only the Navy and Marine pilots that are having this problem..
http://www.military.com/news/article/report-helo-pilots-get-secret-care-to-save-career.html?ESRC=eb.nl
Report: Helo Pilots Get Secret Care to Save Careers
May 13, 2011
Stars and Stripes|by Seth Robson
TOKYO -- Military helicopter pilots who suffer chronic back and neck problems -- thought to be caused by long missions in constantly vibrating aircraft -- have been secretly seeking treatment at civilian medical facilities for fear the injuries could jeopardize their careers, an unreleased Navy study has revealed.
Back and neck injuries were the focus of the survey of 1,800 Navy and Marine Corps aviators conducted last year, according to Kurt Garbow, director of aviation and operational safety in the Office of the Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Navy (Safety).
“What we are finding out is that many pilots and aircrew have been going outside the military to obtain treatment because they are concerned about their ability to be medically qualified [to fly]. They are afraid of losing their careers,” said Garbow, who explained that it is not uncommon for such military studies not to be released to the public.
The results of the Navy study, obtained by Stars and Stripes, confirm what previous investigations have found.
Now, the military is attempting to gather more detailed information about the extent of the problem and come up with potential solutions, Garbow said. More than 8,000 military aviators from all service branches, including the Coast Guard, took part in a more in-depth survey last month. Dick Healing, a former U.S. Navy safety chief, who leads a team from defense consultant R Cubed that is analyzing data from last month’s survey, said the survey asked aviators about the number of hours they had flown, the type and intensity of pain they had experienced and whether they had sought medical treatment.
Healing said there is a large discrepancy between the general population, where 20 percent of people suffer back pain, and helicopter crew members, where as many as 80 percent to 90 percent suffer lower back pain.
“In the worst cases, people have had to stop flying or go into surgery for fused spinal discs,” he said.
Poor posture and heavy gear such as body armor, helmets and night-vision goggles are believed to be part of the problem, he said. But the biggest problem might be in the design of helicopter seats.
The blame game... :mad:
Do they they ruck 100 lb packs in their helo rides??? :mad: :mad:
Glad it is only the Navy and Marine pilots that are having this problem..
The blame game... :mad:
Do they they ruck 100 lb packs in their helo rides??? :mad: :mad:
No rucking lets talk do they wear 40 to 60 Lbs of Body Armor and ammo?
I have mentioned this in a couple of other forums ( LF.net and SOCNET ) relating to threads discussing weight carried by servicemen in todays conflicts.
I hope I am not breaking any advertisement rules here, but I believe it is a product worthwhile mentioning.
http://www.niqama.com/index.php?100
My understanding of the chair is that instead of the old contraptions that strech your ankles, knees and everything else except your back, this product uses a much lower angle and rollers.
The Niqama chairs are being used by a number of government organisations here, to include the Finnish Air Force F18 squadrons, Army bases, Border Guard and Police units. Of note is that the chair is also in by the Border Guard boat crews.
Numerous civilian instances also have the chair in use, to include hospitals and gyms
And a disclaimer here, it is manufactured by a company located in the same town where I live and there is a member of my family who has been involved in the marketing and selling of the product. My intention is not to market this product, just to let people be aware of it in case they might find it interesting.
Have you used the chair? Observations?
Have you used the chair? Observations?
Hi, yes I have tried it, but only once and therefore my personal experience is limited.
I have not suffered of any back issues, so it hard to say whether there was a real benefit, but I think one of the things with the chair is also preventative "maintenance", allowing the disks to stretch and bring back the fluid between them.
It is my father who worked for the company previously and when I was last talking about this with him, I believe there was a study coming out, conducted by a hospital in south of Finland, that showed a big decrease in sick days.
longrange1947
05-13-2011, 11:40
Don't know how close that chair is but there are some thoughts on inversion threrapy:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/inversion-therapy/AN01614
Note warinings on high blood pressure, would assume the same warning may be needd for the chair as you are in a head down situation.
I will say, I have high Blod Pressure and have used inversion to help my back, it is temp but man it feels good while it lasts!!!
That said, have not used that chair.
Max Power
05-14-2011, 23:21
[COLOR="Pink"]The blame game... :mad:
Do they they ruck 100 lb packs in their helo rides??? :mad: :mad:
I hope I'm wrong, but your statement seems to imply that you think pilots and crew chiefs complaining about back problems is unjustified?
No rucking lets talk do they wear 40 to 60 Lbs of Body Armor and ammo?
Yes, we do.
NoTime89
05-15-2011, 11:08
Max Power,
Piggybacking on your thread-my dad flew over 2500 hours in Army rotary wing and has experienced numerous disk/neck problems (He has the MAB). He is now grounded due to those problems.
He went to IOBC, got his EIB, then quickly applied to Aviation...
He said: "It was either my back or my knees."
Team Sergeant
05-15-2011, 11:24
I hope I'm wrong, but your statement seems to imply that you think pilots and crew chiefs complaining about back problems is unjustified?
Yes, we do.
Yes, I think we are amused and yes we are picking on pilots....... ;) (just wanted to make that clear)
(You ever jumped landed with a 120 ruck strapped to your ass that broke your ankle and back? Ever hit someone midair and dislocated your shoulder at 15,000 ft AGL? Ever ruck marched so long you rung your socks out in blood? Ever engage the bad guys with only a $250.00 rifle, a $100 pistol and a few grenades?)
Surgicalcric
05-15-2011, 11:51
I hope I'm wrong, but your statement seems to imply that you think pilots and crew chiefs complaining about back problems is unjustified?
Yes, we do.
None here is making the claim that pilots arent on the receiving end of back troubles or that the medical attention they are receiving isnt well deserved. We do find it somewhat funny that its pilots who are getting the "special" treatment when Infantrymen and SOF (ground guys) have had the troubles for years and no one seemed to care.
And yes, we all know you guys wear armor, however there are physiological differences between sitting in it and running and gunning in it.
Crip
I hope I'm wrong, but your statement seems to imply that you think pilots and crew chiefs complaining about back problems is unjustified? Yes, we do.
No your not wrong and Yes I was making fun of the notion that maybe chopper crews sneaking around to get additional help for the physical problems is somehow unique.
It's not.
Not new and not unique to fly boys.
And if you wait 30 yrs,, it will only get better... :D
Note to self: The pink text is a sign of tongue-n-cheek sarcasm,, check thickness of skin before using..
Max Power
05-15-2011, 23:21
Just to be clear, I wasn't looking to start anything ;) Just didn't have time for an in-depth response last night.
TS, all of your examples, no. However, I did spend some time in the 82nd, did a fair bit of rucking & jumping, and spent some time in OIF & OEF - not nearly as much time on the ground as a lot on here, but some.
The following is a reply to no one in particular, just throwing it out there -
Neither is harder, IMO. Both do about the same damage to your body, based on what I've experienced, just in different ways.
Jumping, rucking, just being a ground guy has a direct wear and tear affect on your body - back, knees, etc.
Sitting in a cockpit in the classic helicopter pose (slightly hunched over, right arm forward and left arm back so there's a slight twist to the left, and your feet almost straight out in front of you either applying constant pressure or just hovering over the pedals but not touching them - depending on what you fly), with a plate and basic load of 5.56mm and 9mm on your chest, for 4-8+ hours. That does something completely different. Not to mention the noise & vibration or the craptastic helmet and NVGs (no difference between us and the ground, except for the constant vibration instead of strenuous physical activity).
Then there are the guys in the back, all of the same equipment, but with either shitty seats (60s), or no seats unless they're using folding chairs (47s). That's when they're sitting, which most of the time they aren't, including take off and landing. Haven't done this, but I can imagine it sucks.
So, my point isn't to start a pissing match, but only that - having experienced both - I venture to say that both have the same end state, just different processes.
Now, why the attention?
Well, because us flyboys need to be pampered :D
But in all seriousness, I think its because there is a possibility to fix it for us - better seats, reduced vibration, using fly-by-wire to move the controls into a more ergonomic position (though, I have to say I am NOT a fan of that idea). Not so much for the guys on the ground, there is only so much you can do with a rucksack.
Now, back to my hole. No offense taken on anything, like I said, that first response was a just a quick one, didn't have a chance to sit down and formulate anything more in-depth until now.
Tree Potato
05-16-2011, 00:32
None here is making the claim that pilots arent on the receiving end of back troubles or that the medical attention they are receiving isnt well deserved. We do find it somewhat funny that its pilots who are getting the "special" treatment when Infantrymen and SOF (ground guys) have had the troubles for years and no one seemed to care.
And yes, we all know you guys wear armor, however there are physiological differences between sitting in it and running and gunning in it.
Crip
Granted there are some friendly barbs being tossed in this thread...but it's humbling that fellow soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen will seek out private health care (paid for out of pocket) in order to continue to be allowed to do the mission. Regardless of branch or MOS, that dedication to service is impressive.
Team Sergeant
05-16-2011, 16:53
Granted there are some friendly barbs being tossed in this thread...but it's humbling that fellow soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen will seek out private health care (paid for out of pocket) in order to continue to be allowed to do the mission. Regardless of branch or MOS, that dedication to service is impressive.
Or (like many SF soldiers) don't go to see the Doc.;)