View Full Version : Osama Bin Laden dead
Mine, too.
Richard :munchin
Don't be too hard on yourself, Bro-your reaction wasn't exactly poor, per se...:D
We are not seeing these on the News. Not even Al Jeez
Hundreds join first Pakistan rally to honour bin Laden (http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/02/hundreds-join-first-pakistan-rally-to-honour-bin-laden.html)
CloseDanger
05-02-2011, 12:49
Mr. Obama called President Asif Ali Zardari of Pakistan to tell him about the strike after it was set in motion, and his advisers called their Pakistani counterparts. “They agree that this is a good and historic day for both of our nations,” Mr. Obama said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/world/asia/osama-bin-laden-is-killed.html?pagewanted=2
Richard :munchin
This sure helps both countries put the Davis thing behind. Pakistan (ISI) officially has egg on their face. It sure will help us move forward.
This was planned for months and it is verified and true.
I should have not poo poohed the moment last night but I am always skeptical of this President.
However, this is an awesome victory for our Military, Intel services, and President Obama and offer my praise for a mission well accomplished.
Now let's get Zawahiti - the finger wagger. We know where he is.
We got alot of intel from those computers. It should be hell on earth now for Al Qeada.
Fast and furious shalt we pursue - and get our guys back home.
GratefulCitizen
05-02-2011, 12:53
Thank you to all who have taken the battle to the enemy.
He could run, but he couldn't hide.
Sea, air, or land; there's was no hiding place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etYHWZyRSMU
FFLaguna
05-02-2011, 13:18
Here are some pictures of the OBL compound (http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/05/02/6569239-osama-bin-ladens-hideout-revealed) and some chopper wreckage. Check out that fence, no wonder government officials keep stressing how unusual the building security was.
Here's some more photos (http://abcnews.go.com/International/slideshow/photos-inside-osama-bin-laden-kill-zone-13508190) of the inside of the building, lots of blood and obvious signs of site exploitation performed before exfil.
Buffalobob
05-02-2011, 13:49
The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.
It took nearly a decade but it is finally done.
Very well done by Seal Team Six although I wish it was some of us.
Guess I'll have to change my signature line. :D
The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.
It took nearly a decade but it is finally done.
Very well done by Seal Team Six although I wish it was some of us.
Guess I'll have to change my signature line. :D
Couldn't be that the Chairman Joint Chief's had anything to do with the selection of spec ops elements. Admiral What's his name....
The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.
It took nearly a decade but it is finally done.
Very well done by Seal Team Six although I wish it was some of us.
Guess I'll have to change my signature line. :D
Great reference. :)
Dohhunter
05-02-2011, 14:05
Here are some pictures of the OBL compound (http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/05/02/6569239-osama-bin-ladens-hideout-revealed) and some chopper wreckage. Check out that fence, no wonder government officials keep stressing how unusual the building security was.
Here's some more photos (http://abcnews.go.com/International/slideshow/photos-inside-osama-bin-laden-kill-zone-13508190) of the inside of the building, lots of blood and obvious signs of site exploitation performed before exfil.
"Million Dollar Compound"
LOL
Callsign
05-02-2011, 14:05
*
Couldn't be that the Chairman Joint Chief's had anything to do with the selection of spec ops elements. Admiral What's his name....I wonder if the selection was made by the POTUS himself. Given the success of the SEALs in liberating the Maersk Alabama, perhaps the president felt a certain comfort level in tasking them for this raid.
Also, by sending the navy rather than the army, the president can make ever more clear his intention to withdraw ground forces and to keep them home as GWOT continues.
We are not seeing these on the News. Not even Al Jeez
Hundreds join first Pakistan rally to honour bin Laden (http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/02/hundreds-join-first-pakistan-rally-to-honour-bin-laden.html)
Hundreds?
“Bin Laden was the hero of the Muslim world and after his martyrdom he has won the title of great mujahed (Muslim fighter),” Asmatullah said.
Was there ANY way to avoid a few extremists from naming him a martyr? Will this idea bleed over into the non-extremists muslim community?
DeltaGolf
05-02-2011, 14:34
1st and foremost, sincere gratitude and thanks to all of our past, current, and future soldiers for their dedication and service.
2nd, congratulations to the special ops warriors involved in this mission for a job extraordinarily well done.
3rd (and most painful for me to say, but credit where credit due), well done Mr. President. Believe me, I am no fan of Obama, but to discount his role in this is unfair, IMO.
Mr Furious
05-02-2011, 14:52
Our warriors are the finest in the world and I am proud of our nation’s resolve. God bless all of them.
Ok - not a conspiracy theorist, just an electrical engineer with pretty fair math skills, so please help me understand this ;)
1. Raid goes down at ~1615EST as the locals throughout the region were posting to twitter when it went down.
2. ~40 minutes on the OBJ and depart with the body at ~1700EST.
3. Fly him back to A’stan ~200mi …via rotary wing; give the benefit of the doubt and say average cruising speed up and over used by the MH-60 was 170mph.
4. This part is fuzzy to me - load him into the cargo hold of a jet? That jet transported him to an awaiting carrier group in the N Arabian Sea (~1200mi). No need to fill the atmosphere with sonic booms, so let’s just place the cruising speed at let’s say ~600mph, right?
5. They prepped his body for burial at sea aboard the carrier at 0110EST
6. Body was slid off the plank and burial at sea was completed by 0200EST.
Do the math. Well honed surgical plan to raid, kill, recover and rapidly dispose of the body. Not a lot of time for much else.
Thoughts?
(fm Buffalobob) Very well done by Seal Team Six although I wish it was some of us.
You were there, sir. You all were.
Red Flag 1
05-02-2011, 14:59
The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.
It took nearly a decade but it is finally done.
Very well done by Seal Team Six although I wish it was some of us.
Guess I'll have to change my signature line. :D
I like it Bob!
Well done SEAL Team six!
RF 1
Broadsword2004
05-02-2011, 15:09
I think it had more to do with the fact that the other unit is unqualified. ;)
Which other unit are you referring to?
Broadsword2004
05-02-2011, 15:12
.
The Reaper
05-02-2011, 15:14
This thread is about to be closed and heads knocked.
Word to the wise.
TR
Broadsword2004
05-02-2011, 15:28
This thread is about to be closed and heads knocked.
Word to the wise.
TR
My apologies Sir if I took the thread off course. Please don't lock it over that.
Surgicalcric
05-02-2011, 15:47
I think...
Obviously not before you speak.
I would do more thinking and less posting if you thought before hitting the "Submit Reply" button.
Go do PT
anotherjon
05-02-2011, 16:09
Congrats to the community and the alphabet soup boys. A hard fought victory for you all.
-Jon
I was listening to Brenner on NPR - he said this op was rehearsed for several weeks and that we told the Pakistani's zilch until our forces were completely clear of their territory/air space.
Kudos to all who were "up" and made this one work.
Richard :munchin
Well done, well done indeed!
Hoisting one for ALL special ops personnel.
What I don't get is telling the world how they tracked the compound by following the couriers. STFU Washington...if they tracked one way it can lead back trail to others.
I am SO proud of our warriors, and this enhances the feeling.
I heard they tracked him down because his Net Flix movies were over due
Trip_Wire (RIP)
05-02-2011, 16:51
To all that took part in this operation a hardy Congrats and well done! :D
69harley
05-02-2011, 17:07
3. Fly him back to A’stan ~200mi …via rotary wing; give the benefit of the doubt and say average cruising speed up and over used by the MH-60 was 170mph.
I doubt they flew in any variant of the -hawk. News reports 25 pax on two birds, they blew one in place, 25 pax plus one left on the remaining bird. could not have been a -60.
Broadsword2004
05-02-2011, 17:32
President Obama and his staff watching the fight go down:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/5680724572/
Yea...Obama did it...he killed Bin Laden...It was all his doing. THE ONE is responsible for this....YAY YAY YAY...YOU KNOW THAT"S WHAT WILL PLAY OUT IN HIS ANNOUNCEMENT AN THE MSM....FUCK HIM..CONGRATULATIONS TO THE US MILITARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I...me...my...this is the Obama Holy Trinity.
Well done Warriors, well done.
The Reaper
05-02-2011, 17:43
President Obama and his staff watching the fight go down:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/5680724572/
Where's the ground combat experienced guy to offer informed advice and counsel?
TR
greenberetTFS
05-02-2011, 17:44
I was listening to Brenner on NPR - he said this op was rehearsed for several weeks and that we told the Pakistani's zilch until our forces were completely clear of their territory/air space.
Kudos to all who were "up" and made this one work.
Richard :munchin
NPR!........You mean Radio Hanoi?.......:eek:
Big Teddy :munchin
Masochist
05-02-2011, 17:51
President Obama and his staff watching the fight go down:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/5680724572/
Maybe I'm just suffering from Birth Certificate Photoshop Overload, but take a look at the General sitting at the laptop (click on the photo for the largest resolution photo). Do his ribbons seem a little odd? The seem very colorful and overlap his lapel, almost like they were added to the photo after the fact. :confused:
NPR!........You mean Radio Hanoi?.......:eek:
Big Teddy :munchin
:D
Yup, nothin' like settlin' down in the old leather chair, watchin' Rachel Maddow and listenin' to NPR.
Who says multi-taskin' can't be relaxin'?
Maybe I'm just suffering from Birth Certificate Photoshop Overload, but take a look at the General sitting at the laptop (click on the photo for the largest resolution photo). Do his ribbons seem a little odd? The seem very colorful and overlap his lapel, almost like they were added to the photo after the fact. :confused:
Really? this belongs in this thread dedicated to the heroes who rid the earth of some scum today?
Masochist
05-02-2011, 18:09
Really? this belongs in this thread dedicated to the heroes who rid the earth of some scum today?
Not meant as disrespect. Just pointing out something that seemed odd. Take it as you will.
Not meant as disrespect. Just pointing out something that seemed odd. Take it as you will.
I noticed it as well ...odd looking ...
Utah Bob
05-02-2011, 18:21
As the squids say.."Bravo Zulu"!:D
Brush Okie
05-02-2011, 18:50
I noticed it as well ...odd looking ...
I can almost guarintee it did not go down exacly as they said. I'm not saying they are being knuckleheads but the general public just needs to know he is dead they don't need to know anyting else the rest is fluff and cover story. Remember the bad guys watch CNN as well.
GratefulCitizen
05-02-2011, 19:14
My brain immediately went to second and third order consequences. Thoughts?
Will this inflame the Muslim word? To what extent?
My brain went to worrying about the political capitalization of this success.
Will the POTUS use this as a reason to pull out of A-stan and thus please his political base?
(corollary: was there an international political debt incurred to do just that?)
Will victory be declared, and demobilization be used an excuse to cut military spending in the imminent budget/debt/deficit debate?
If military spending is cut and entitlements are extended, it will be hard to reverse in the future.
Just got a Email for a good IT friend telling everyone of a Video sent out today with a subject line of: Osama Bin Laden Killing Video. He saying it is a Virus.
True or not.. FYI stay safe!!
Brilliantly executed operation by fearless warriors . . . every one should get a medal.
Dohhunter
05-02-2011, 20:27
Whether cover fluff or garnered truth, the reports of the left side double tap make me proud to think that in that split second, those rounds had the hearts and minds of every soul that perished from his actions burning red.fucking.hot.
I trust everyone involved in this from the bottom up and left to right will get their just recognition, public or not.
Every day is a great day to be an American. Today we can say both Bravo Zulu and Geronimo-E-KIA. A hearty thanks to our warriors.
GREAT JOB men. Thank you for your service.
It was most likely that EVIL Facebook that did him in.
Warning: Pic has strong language.
18646
Maybe I'm just suffering from Birth Certificate Photoshop Overload, but take a look at the General sitting at the laptop (click on the photo for the largest resolution photo). Do his ribbons seem a little odd? The seem very colorful and overlap his lapel, almost like they were added to the photo after the fact. :confused:
No, it's good, in the AF you get a medal for PT, wpns qual and going to the mess hall...I mean Dining Facility (with mood music)
It is my understanding that the deal went down 1000 feet from a large retired military community, and 90 miles from the capital, Islamabad.
I don't even know how to respond to something like that, but when you have "strategic allies," shouldn't you be able to count on them to find this guy in an affluent, retired military community, and hand him over?
After reading the “Quranic Concept of War,” by Pakistani General S.K. Malik, I can see why he was protected:
http://wolfpangloss.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/malik-quranic-concept-of-war.pdf
:munchin
Just got a Email for a good IT friend telling everyone of a Video sent out today with a subject line of: Osama Bin Laden Killing Video. He saying it is a Virus.
True or not.. FYI stay safe!!
It's true, the one I got said something about being from the BBC, but it did put a virus on my comp. Luckily, Norty caught it in time and quarantined it. I changed my PWs just to be sure.
Scotty
regularamymedic
05-02-2011, 22:51
Im with Team Sergeant....Something about this just isnt quite right.....The buriel at sea in mere (hours).....cmon?
RAM:munchin
Smokin Joe
05-02-2011, 23:25
Today I give thanks to the door kickers who serviced additional targets down range. May God Bless all our men and women in harms way! Additionally whether OBL was serviced 3 years ago or 3 days ago I don't really care, he is gone... Next!
Reaper411
05-02-2011, 23:35
It is not so much what they did with his corpse which I am concerned about. As long as he is 100% dead, then I am satisfied. My concern is the onset of complacency, our biggest adversary, brought on by a false sense of safety and security from those who believe all evil acts will cease because he is gone...
R411 :munchin
Outstanding job! I've been grinning all day long - can't wait for more details to trickle in.
A million bucks doesn't get you much in Abbottabad, does it?
S.
A million bucks doesn't get you much in Abbottabad, does it?
S.
No it pays off the local police and the retired Paki military community to look the other way for a certain time and not ask questions.
Treat his body with respect. I am sure the professionals who killed him treated his body with equal parts of disdain and respect. We are better than them and it is time to show it.
We should send his body to Saudi Arabia well taken care of (minus a couple dozen holes) as a two part message:
1) We are better than you and always will be
2) Don't fuck with the U.S.A!
At first I thought it was great that UBL's body was going to be treated according to Islamic traditions because I thought their practice was to behead them, burn the body and then drag it through the streets.
Turns out that's just the Islamic tradition when it comes to the handling of Christian bodies.
Excellent job to everyone involved! I agree with those that see something amiss in the way things have been reported about the burial at sea and the lack of photographic evidence however. It just appears odd and raises questions in my mind.
Where's the ground combat experienced guy to offer informed advice and counsel?
TRFWIW, I am very uncomfortable with the notion of a president watching/observing an operation such as this one while it is underway in 'real time.'
Civilians need to know when to take a big step back, pop open a fresh, ice cold can of STFU, take a few sips, and let professionals do their jobs. (The exception would be instances involving NBC.)
My $0.02.
Everyone understands that that picture is nothing but a political photo op and not a pic of the 'real' {tactical} decision makers overseeing the mission given the 'green light' by the NCA, right.
To me, that picture is like looking at a bunch of hogs staring at a wristwatch - they all know they're looking at something but have no clue as to what it is they are seeing or what is going on - they're just waiting for someone to throw them some more corn so they can feed.
Richard :munchin
Dohhunter
05-03-2011, 12:20
No virus on this one :D
Not only do they buy F-16s, but the Taiwanese have a bit of a sense of humour too.
How the Osama raid went down: Video (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=173_1304363717)
Everyone understands that that picture is nothing but a political photo op and not a pic of the 'real' {tactical} decision makers overseeing the mission given the 'green light' by the NCA, right.
Richard :munchin
Exactly. Anyone who has ever had a commander try and call the shots while watching 'kill TV' at HQ knows what a disaster that can be.
The only reason for Obama and his team to watch is (obvious) interest, and to have the president sitting with his Rolodex at the ready to get Zardari on the line just in case they noticed Pakistani security forces showing up on the OBJ.
Everyone understands that that picture is nothing but a political photo op and not a pic of the 'real' {tactical} decision makers overseeing the mission given the 'green light' by the NCA, right.
To me, that picture is like looking at a bunch of hogs staring at a wristwatch - they all know they're looking at something but have no clue as to what it is they are seeing or what is going on.
Richard :munchinQP Richard--
Even if every laptop in that room had nothing but games of Freecell on the screen and the POTUS were playing Farmville,* I think the image itself is contrary to the best interests of healthy civil-military relations. The photo re-enforces an inchoate perception of civilian control of the armed forces that is rooted in mass popular culture.
YMMV.
______________________________________
* "The first one is free" an anonymous QP.
DeltaGolf
05-03-2011, 13:29
My brain went to worrying about the political capitalization of this success.
Will the POTUS use this as a reason to pull out of A-stan and thus please his political base?
(corollary: was there an international political debt incurred to do just that?)
Will victory be declared, and demobilization be used an excuse to cut military spending in the imminent budget/debt/deficit debate?
If military spending is cut and entitlements are extended, it will be hard to reverse in the future.
Indeed, I've already seen talking heads opining that "We've done all we can in Afghanistan and we should immediately withdraw forces." One such "expert" suggested that POTUS's very next action should be to announce the withdrawal of US troops. Seriously, where do the news orgs find the people?
Just got a Email for a good IT friend telling everyone of a Video sent out today with a subject line of: Osama Bin Laden Killing Video. He saying it is a Virus.
True or not.. FYI stay safe!!
I'd be extremely wary of any videos purporting to show the op in progress. Maybe I'm idealistic, but I would expect that the video would be closely held for some period of time. If released, wouldn't it be done over mainstream media? Of course it will take almost superhuman will power on my part to overcome the urge to watch it.
Im with Team Sergeant....Something about this just isnt quite right.....The buriel at sea in mere (hours).....cmon?
RAM:munchin
I don't know, it makes some sense to me. We (America) take the high moral ground by showing (undue) respect for our enemy while simultaneously robbing his supporters of the opportunity to visit his grave. It also solves the logistical problem of determining where to bury his body.
It is not so much what they did with his corpse which I am concerned about. As long as he is 100% dead, then I am satisfied. My concern is the onset of complacency, our biggest adversary, brought on by a false sense of safety and security from those who believe all evil acts will cease because he is gone...
R411 :munchin
Well said, Reaper. Getting Bin Laden was a phenomenal success, but in the grand scheme of things, at this point his elimination is more symbolic. Al Queda and other Islamists are still active. I'm troubled by those already suggesting that this is a death blow to Islamic terrorists.
<<SNIP>>
Well said, [Reaper411]. Getting Bin Laden was a phenomenal success, but in the grand scheme of things, at this point his elimination is more symbolic. Al Queda and other Islamists are still active. I'm troubled by those already suggesting that this is a death blow to Islamic terrorists.DG--
Nice post!:lifter
With respect, I do differ with you on your comment that killing Bin Laden is "more symbolic" for the following reason.
IMO, in the early years of GWOT, the United States made a handful of painful strategic miscues. One of these mistakes was identifying the capture or killing of Bin Laden as a strategic objective. As long as he remained on the prowl, the entire world could argue that America was failing to achieve its goals. Now, with Bin Laden dead, that argument is off the table.
My $0.02.
Utah Bob
05-03-2011, 13:47
To me, that picture is like looking at a bunch of hogs staring at a wristwatch -
Richard :munchin
Yer killin' me!:D:D:D
GratefulCitizen
05-03-2011, 13:48
Kinda scratchin' my head at some of this.
The whole event is potentially politically convenient for both the US and Pakistan...should forces be withdrawn.
The US gets to declare victory.
Pakistan gets "street cred" for their hospitality towards UBL.
This leaves Pakistan better able to withstand internal political challenges.
Kinda important for a nuclear-armed nation.
<shrug>
Probably just conspiracy theory fodder.
The Brenner news conference put forth the idea that this was a kill (but capture if that somehow works out) kind of mission; as opposed to a capture (but kill if you have to) kind of mission. Brenner stated that this was done to lessen the danger of the assault team, whichs makes sense. Is this a real distinction made in the goals of missions? Or are these things just too fast and confusing to realistically attempt the latter type of objective.
Try it and find out. End of discussion. Richard
Broadsword2004
05-03-2011, 13:56
QP Richard--
Even if every laptop in that room had nothing but games of Freecell on the screen and the POTUS were playing Farmville,* I think the image itself is contrary to the best interests of healthy civil-military relations. The photo re-enforces an inchoate perception of civilian control of the armed forces that is rooted in mass popular culture.
YMMV.
Myself, I didn't take that picture as the President and his people literally calling the shots as the raid went down, I took it as the President and his people just sitting and watching as observers, while the professionals went ahead and did their jobs.
DevilSide
05-03-2011, 14:19
Many thanks to all service members for this achievement, we're one step closer.
The news was just talking about starting a withdraw process from Afghanistan, is it a good time or no? I dont feel like we are close to being done to be honest.
ZonieDiver
05-03-2011, 14:25
Myself, I didn't take that picture as the President and his people literally calling the shots as the raid went down, I took it as the President and his people just sitting and watching as observers, while the professionals went ahead and did their jobs.
And I think it was probably snapped just a couple seconds after they all put ther bowls of Orville Redenbacher under the table, out of view! :D
DeltaGolf
05-03-2011, 14:42
DG--
Nice post!:lifter
With respect, I do differ with you on your comment that killing Bin Laden is "more symbolic" for the following reason.
IMO, in the early years of GWOT, the United States made a handful of painful strategic miscues. One of these mistakes was identifying the capture or killing of Bin Laden as a strategic objective. As long as he remained on the prowl, the entire world could argue that America was failing to achieve its goals. Now, with Bin Laden dead, that argument is off the table.
My $0.02.
Thanks Sigaba, and I absolutely agree with you. I meant "symbolic" only as it applies to halting terrorism (similar, I suppose, the killing of Pablo Escobar, while an important event in the war on drugs, was symbolic in that the drug trade continues). Symbolism aside, the fact that we killed Bin Laden (and I might add, in Hollywood-like fashion) sends a strong message to our enemies.
Kinda scratchin' my head at some of this.
The whole event is potentially politically convenient for both the US and Pakistan...should forces be withdrawn.
The US gets to declare victory.
Pakistan gets "street cred" for their hospitality towards UBL.
This leaves Pakistan better able to withstand internal political challenges.
Kinda important for a nuclear-armed nation.
<shrug>
Probably just conspiracy theory fodder.
I'm not buying any of the "political" theories for the simple reason that they all imply that we've known along where Bin Laden was and we could get him at any time, but the Administration simply waited for maximum political gain.
God knows I'm no supporter of the President, but credit must be given where due. Selecting a spec ops raid over bombing, and giving the go ahead showed leadership, and more importantly showed that Obama is very capable of making tough military decisions. Ugh. I feel so dirty saying that, I have to take a very long shower with Lava soap.
Myself, I didn't take that picture as the President and his people literally calling the shots as the raid went down, I took it as the President and his people just sitting and watching as observers, while the professionals went ahead and did their jobs.
True. From the New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/world/asia/03intel.html?emc=eta1
The President and others were apparently linked to Leon Panetta who was giving them real-time info. It appears that they were not watching the action, let alone that they had any hand in conducting the actual raid.
God knows I'm no supporter of the President, but credit must be given where due. Selecting a spec ops raid over bombing, and giving the go ahead showed leadership, and more importantly showed that Obama is very capable of making tough military decisions. Ugh. I feel so dirty saying that, I have to take a very long shower with Lava soap.
Then again, he might have done it to try and save his ass in the polls. A la the birth certificate.
Don't get all teary-eyed about this shit, dude. It ain't like he pulled the fucking trigger any more than he did on those three pirates.
You're talking about the guy who promised to close Gitmo as a tenet for election. If it weren't for Gitmo, he wouldn't have even got a chance to go all High Noon on bin Laden.
And, that's providing the incident wasn't staged...:munchin
Presidents do this all the time. At least he wasn't on the Carl Vinson with a huge "We Got Him" sign.
Liberal Obama-worshipper say shit like that all the time.
Broadsword2004
05-03-2011, 14:53
Then again, he might have done it to try and save his ass in the polls. A la the birth certificate.
Don't get all teary-eyed about this shit, dude. It ain't like he pulled the fucking trigger any more than he did on those three pirates.
True, but I think it did take some guts to give the order for this. It could have gone the wrong way.
And, that's providing the incident wasn't staged...:munchin
Do you really believe this Sir?
True, but I think it did take some guts to give the order for this. It could have gone the wrong way.
Do you really believe this Sir?
A: Took guts? What, was he gonna get shot at?
B: If I don't really believe something I post, it'll be in pink.
DevilSide
05-03-2011, 15:02
A: Took guts? What, was he gonna get shot at?
B: If I don't really believe something I post, it'll be in pink.
Why would he stage it? I'm not a big fan of the guy either but still, how would nobody call him out on that?
Why would he stage it? I'm not a big fan of the guy either but still, how would nobody call him out on that?
How the hell would I know?
Look, if you catch me lying through my ass about one thing, I damn sure don't expect you to believe my ass about anything else I say or do again.
Get it? It's a trust issue.
Broadsword2004
05-03-2011, 15:07
A: Took guts? What, was he gonna get shot at?
There was the chance that if it went down very badly, he'd take a major hit politically. Maybe he was just rolling the dice for possible political gain, but I mean he could have kept the whole thing secret and decided not to go after bin Laden too.
Since he rolled the dice and won, some may say, "Yeah, he just did this for political points. He just thinks about himelf."
OTOH, if he had decided not to get bin Laden, and this had come out later, then he'd have gotten the same criticism, that he was just being a politician and thinking about himself instead of the national security.
B: If I don't really believe something I post, it'll be in pink.
How would they fake something like this?:confused:
Political opponents pick on stupid shit all the time, I was just pointing out this is one of those times.
As was I.
There was the chance that if it went down very badly, he'd take a major hit politically. Maybe he was just rolling the dice for possible political gain, but I mean he could have kept the whole thing secret and decided not to go after bin Laden too.
Since he rolled the dice and won, some may say, "Yeah, he just did this for political points. He just thinks about himelf."
OTOH, if he had decided not to get bin Laden, and this had come out later, then he'd have gotten the same criticism, that he was just being a politician and thinking about himself instead of the national security.
How would they fake something like this?:confused:
Rolled what dice? What was the other choice?
Broadsword2004
05-03-2011, 15:56
Rolled what dice? What was the other choice?
Drop a bomb, but I'd imagine there would have been some risk to that too.
How would they fake something like this?:confused:
:D
DeltaGolf
05-03-2011, 16:10
Then again, he might have done it to try and save his ass in the polls. A la the birth certificate.
Don't get all teary-eyed about this shit, dude. It ain't like he pulled the fucking trigger any more than he did on those three pirates.
You're talking about the guy who promised to close Gitmo as a tenet for election. If it weren't for Gitmo, he wouldn't have even got a chance to go all High Noon on bin Laden.
And, that's providing the incident wasn't staged...:munchin
With respect, Dusty,
"Teary eyed"? If you knew me or my political views you'd know how laughable that comment is. Since you don't know me, all I can do is assure you that we are on the same page regarding Obama's many deficiencies.
You know better than I, how many things could have gone wrong and how risky this mission was. Although the physical risks were entirely born by the troops, had this mission failed, Obama would have been crucified by Republicans and Dems. Consider: 31 years later, Operation Eagle Claw is still one of defining failures of the Carter Administration. The Battle of Mogadishu gave the Clinton Administration a huge black eye.
Fortunately, the mission went spectacularly well. You are correct, closing Gitmo was one of Obama's major campaign points. However, as with many of his promises, he chose not to follow through, and Gitmo has remained open. I don't know what role, if any, this played in producing intel about Bin Laden's location, but it's beside the point. You are also correct that Obama didn't pull the trigger. He is POTUS -- executing special ops isn't part of his job description. He either gives or denies the go ahead.
In this one instance, he made the right call. He showed leadership. He acted Presidential. Will I vote for him in 2012? NO.
DeltaGolf
05-03-2011, 16:14
Rolled what dice? What was the other choice?
He could have called off the attack and waited for more evidence or a better opportunity or any other excuse.
He could have called off the attack and waited for more evidence or a better opportunity or any other excuse.
You mean wait for the poll numbers to get below 30?
You know better than I, how many things could have gone wrong and how risky this mission was. Although the physical risks were entirely born by the troops, had this mission failed, Obama would have been crucified by Republicans and Dems.
That's what smells fishy about it.
DeltaGolf
05-03-2011, 17:08
That's what smells fishy about it.
You've lost me. :confused: Are you saying it smells fishy because it succeeded, or it's fishy that he would have given the order knowing the potential political consequences of failure? Maybe some other reason?
Team Sergeant
05-03-2011, 17:51
With respect, Dusty,
"Teary eyed"? If you knew me or my political views you'd know how laughable that comment is. Since you don't know me, all I can do is assure you that we are on the same page regarding Obama's many deficiencies.
You know better than I, how many things could have gone wrong and how risky this mission was. Although the physical risks were entirely born by the troops, had this mission failed, Obama would have been crucified by Republicans and Dems. Consider: 31 years later, Operation Eagle Claw is still one of defining failures of the Carter Administration. The Battle of Mogadishu gave the Clinton Administration a huge black eye.
Fortunately, the mission went spectacularly well. You are correct, closing Gitmo was one of Obama's major campaign points. However, as with many of his promises, he chose not to follow through, and Gitmo has remained open. I don't know what role, if any, this played in producing intel about Bin Laden's location, but it's beside the point. You are also correct that Obama didn't pull the trigger. He is POTUS -- executing special ops isn't part of his job description. He either gives or denies the go ahead.
In this one instance, he made the right call. He showed leadership. He acted Presidential. Will I vote for him in 2012? NO.
DeltaGolf, your bio says you're a educated man and a military buff.....
Before I say this know that I would fight beside my Brother SEALS to the death, anyplace anywhere anytime.
That said your analogy of Operation Eagle Claw and the Battle of Mogadishu as compared to this operation is ludicrous.
This was a small DA operation, risk factor for the good guys, was very low. Chances for success very high if the old terrorist was indeed there.
Spare me your military analogies.
I am sure the SEALS killed something, just who I'd like to know.
Team Sergeant
andwerise
05-03-2011, 17:53
I doubt they flew in any variant of the -hawk. News reports 25 pax on two birds, they blew one in place, 25 pax plus one left on the remaining bird. could not have been a -60.
NY Times has a photo of part of the wreckage. Looks like the tali of a 60 to me. The same article describes the mission as having 4 helos. I have seen the number of SEALS at 24, and the NY Times article says 12 SEALS were dropped into the compound.
Also hearing that one of the helos did a soft landing in the compound either due to a mechanical or lift issue. Either way, the NY Times piece says 12 were dropped in, the primary attack force was composed of 2 Helos, with 2 more on standby in case shit hit the fan. One of those came in when one of the primary helos went down to retrieve the crew and SEALS of the downed chopper.
So with a little filling in of the gaps in info, it sounds to me like the op involved 4 helos with 24 SEALS. 2 entered Pakistan, while 2 hung back, presumably in A'Stan, as a backup in case the primary force encountered resistance or other issues. When one of the helos went down, one of the backup choppers came in to retrieve the personnel and continued out of country.
That puts 6 SEALS per chopper on the outset of the mission, and after losing a helo, 18 SEALS between 2 choppers plus the corpse of one UBL. Seems like a load well within the capability and range of a UH60, and the tail wreckage at the compound is assuredly not from a 47.
I am sure it is possible it was an air force bird, but my money is on it being a 60. Tho we all know where it would be from, I certainly wont play with OPSEC on here
Heres the NY times article
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/world/asia/03intel.html?pagewanted=1&hp
And the photo of the wreckage
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/05/03/world/SUB-INTEL-2.html
EDIT: Not presuming to know any of that for fact. Just trying to read between the lines.
andwerise
05-03-2011, 18:01
ALthough these seem to me to look like a stockier, bigger bird. Maybe something from the AF
http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,2068945_2271659,00.html
Utah Bob
05-03-2011, 19:29
Well it's after 5 I think I'll go mix a Bin Laden before supper.
Why would he stage it?
Just off the top of me head....Wellll for starters, spun, dug up, thawed out, staged or a combination of some, all or none....My poll numbers are in the tank, David Koresh is dead, Gas is close to $4 per gallon, a roll of toilet paper is beginning to look like a legitimate form of currency, May Day Celebration, in May my SEIU buddy Stephen Lerner plans to take on JP Morgan Chase this month, I need some MO-mentum for my Campaign 2012 Road to Hell and I am a narcissist.
But more important fact or fiction, contrived or not it this is quite a distraction/diversion from reality.....What else happened today in the world? How has the news cycle been the last 2 days? What version of the OBL Takedown are we at now? What were most people talking about today OBL or dancing with the Stars?
Will this end terrorism and TSA pat downs?
:munchin
Well it's after 5 I think I'll go mix a Bin Laden before supper.
If you'd have let me know earlier, I'd have offered you one...but I took it early this morning after exercising and, after wiping my BHO, flushed it before it stained my Biden. I can save you one tomorrow, though, if you're interested. :p
Richard :munchin
Utah Bob
05-03-2011, 19:37
Got one in my hand right now.:D
Got one in my hand right now.
Eeewwwwwww...:rolleyes:...but that 'technique' cost Rick Detrick and I a sure thing one night with two girls at the Crazy Horse in Georgetown. I've been pissed at those bin Laden's ever since. ;)
Richard :munchin
Mr Furious
05-03-2011, 19:50
NY Times has a photo of part of the wreckage....
andwerise & 69Harley: type was really irrelevant for the point I was driving, unless that type is driven by a flux capacitor;)
for the purpose of the drill, ~170mph will get you in the ballpark for T=D/R
andwerise
05-03-2011, 19:59
andwerise & 69Harley: type was really irrelevant for the point I was driving, unless that type is driven by a flux capacitor;)
for the purpose of the drill, ~170mph will get you in the ballpark for T=D/R
Apologies, I got caught up geeking out and missed the original point.... lol
Although a UH60 with a flux capacitor could prove mighty useful. Forward it up to DARPA, I hear they're running out of ideas to waste money on researching :D
andwerise
05-03-2011, 20:10
.
JSOC Commander is Navy also. This NJ article seems to make some presumptions as to why the Navy got it over the Army (I'm not touching that topic with a ten foot pole on these forums).
If you're gonna troll - you're in the wrong pond. Go phish somewhere else.
Richard :munchin
Utah Bob
05-03-2011, 20:28
Eeewwwwwww...:rolleyes:...but that 'technique' cost Rick Detrick and I a sure thing one night with two girls at the Crazy Horse in Georgetown. I've been pissed at those bin Laden's ever since. ;)
Richard :munchin
I just do the simple one.
Two shots and a splash of water.:D
andwerise
05-03-2011, 20:28
If you're gonna troll - you're in the wrong pond. Go phish somewhere else.
Richard :munchin
Trolling not the intent, but point taken. Deleted and Apologies
NY Times has a photo of part of the wreckage. Looks like the tali of a 60 to me. The same article describes the mission as having 4 helos. I have seen the number of SEALS at 24, and the NY Times article says 12 SEALS were dropped into the compound.
Also hearing that one of the helos did a soft landing in the compound either due to a mechanical or lift issue. Either way, the NY Times piece says 12 were dropped in, the primary attack force was composed of 2 Helos, with 2 more on standby in case shit hit the fan. One of those came in when one of the primary helos went down to retrieve the crew and SEALS of the downed chopper.
So with a little filling in of the gaps in info, it sounds to me like the op involved 4 helos with 24 SEALS. 2 entered Pakistan, while 2 hung back, presumably in A'Stan, as a backup in case the primary force encountered resistance or other issues. When one of the helos went down, one of the backup choppers came in to retrieve the personnel and continued out of country.
That puts 6 SEALS per chopper on the outset of the mission, and after losing a helo, 18 SEALS between 2 choppers plus the corpse of one UBL. Seems like a load well within the capability and range of a UH60, and the tail wreckage at the compound is assuredly not from a 47.
I am sure it is possible it was an air force bird, but my money is on it being a 60. Tho we all know where it would be from, I certainly wont play with OPSEC on here
Heres the NY times article
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/world/asia/03intel.html?pagewanted=1&hp
And the photo of the wreckage
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/05/03/world/SUB-INTEL-2.html
EDIT: Not presuming to know any of that for fact. Just trying to read between the lines.
NY Times - Epitome of accurate reporting .
Dohhunter
05-03-2011, 21:18
He died "Resisting and unarmed"
Resisting: He was alive. We fucking killed him.
Questions?
/briefing
The Reaper
05-03-2011, 21:24
NY Times has a photo of part of the wreckage. Looks like the tali of a 60 to me. The same article describes the mission as having 4 helos. I have seen the number of SEALS at 24, and the NY Times article says 12 SEALS were dropped into the compound.
Also hearing that one of the helos did a soft landing in the compound either due to a mechanical or lift issue. Either way, the NY Times piece says 12 were dropped in, the primary attack force was composed of 2 Helos, with 2 more on standby in case shit hit the fan. One of those came in when one of the primary helos went down to retrieve the crew and SEALS of the downed chopper.
So with a little filling in of the gaps in info, it sounds to me like the op involved 4 helos with 24 SEALS. 2 entered Pakistan, while 2 hung back, presumably in A'Stan, as a backup in case the primary force encountered resistance or other issues. When one of the helos went down, one of the backup choppers came in to retrieve the personnel and continued out of country.
That puts 6 SEALS per chopper on the outset of the mission, and after losing a helo, 18 SEALS between 2 choppers plus the corpse of one UBL. Seems like a load well within the capability and range of a UH60, and the tail wreckage at the compound is assuredly not from a 47.
I am sure it is possible it was an air force bird, but my money is on it being a 60. Tho we all know where it would be from, I certainly wont play with OPSEC on here
Heres the NY times article
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/world/asia/03intel.html?pagewanted=1&hp
And the photo of the wreckage
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/05/03/world/SUB-INTEL-2.html
EDIT: Not presuming to know any of that for fact. Just trying to read between the lines.
Why do you care if it was 24, or 25?
Four birds, or ten?
What possible difference could it make to you?
You have lost the opportunity to be a gray man and have drawn attention to yourself.
I suggest that you stop speculating and posting opinions here.
Immediately.
TR
DeltaGolf
05-03-2011, 21:40
DeltaGolf, your bio says you're a educated man and a military buff.....
Before I say this know that I would fight beside my Brother SEALS to the death, anyplace anywhere anytime.
That said your analogy of Operation Eagle Claw and the Battle of Mogadishu as compared to this operation is ludicrous.
This was a small DA operation, risk factor for the good guys, was very low. Chances for success very high if the old terrorist was indeed there.
Spare me your military analogies.
I am sure the SEALS killed something, just who I'd like to know.
Team Sergeant
Team Sergeant,
Thanks for the input. For the record, I wasn't equating the operations, although I can see how you interpreted it that way. I was merely pointing out the political risk that Obama took authorizing the operation.
As a civilian, an operation that involves entering foreign soil without informing the local government, storming a compound, and capturing or killing the America's most wanted criminal seems like a very high risk operation, albeit relatively safer than Eagle Claw or Mogadishu. Obviously, I must defer to your expertise here that this was a low risk, high success mission.
What would it take for you to accept that the person the SEALS killed was actually Bin Laden? I'm really not trying to start an argument.
tommytom11
05-03-2011, 21:50
big congrats and thank you to the exceptional men involved in this
DeltaGolf
05-03-2011, 23:04
On the assumption that I'm not the only person who missed this:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/237877/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-to-kill-a-mockingturd?from=fb_share
Team Sergeant
05-03-2011, 23:31
Team Sergeant,
Thanks for the input. For the record, I wasn't equating the operations, although I can see how you interpreted it that way. I was merely pointing out the political risk that Obama took authorizing the operation.
As a civilian, an operation that involves entering foreign soil without informing the local government, storming a compound, and capturing or killing the America's most wanted criminal seems like a very high risk operation, albeit relatively safer than Eagle Claw or Mogadishu. Obviously, I must defer to your expertise here that this was a low risk, high success mission.
What would it take for you to accept that the person the SEALS killed was actually Bin Laden? I'm really not trying to start an argument.
And I'm telling you there was almost "zero" risk........ two drunk SEALS could have carried out the mission with the same results......;) Now knowing it was almost 99.999999% riskless what say you?
And I embellish, one SEAL could have carried out that mission with the same results.
It seems that the Obama administration's inconsistent narrative, delay of photo(s) / video, dropping his body into the ocean (I still have a problem with that) is in sharp contrast to the quality work the Seals performed. Although, this administration hasn’t set a high bar at all I still would have expected they would have planned and scripted the communication to the world a little better. It seems to be the least that they could do considering the time and effort exerted for this operation to be a success.
Brush Okie
05-04-2011, 00:25
It seems that the Obama administration's inconsistent narrative, delay of photo(s) / video, dropping his body into the ocean (I still have a problem with that) is in sharp contrast to the quality work the Seals performed. Although, this administration hasn’t set a high bar at all I still would have expected they would have planned and scripted the communication to the world a little better. It seems to be the least that they could do considering the time and effort exerted for this operation to be a success.
All John Q Public needs to know is that he is dead. Any info that is opsec and may be used against us is not public info. Who gives a shit if they came in on blackhawks or pink scooters they killed him and got out without any us casulties. I am not a fan of the current administration and I don't agree with the their story changing but it is what it is. They should just say we killed him and giving to many details could jeperdize the people involved and future operations.
And I'm telling you there was almost "zero" risk........ two drunk SEALS could have carried out the mission with the same results......;) Now knowing it was almost 99.999999% riskless what say you?
And I embellish, one SEAL could have carried out that mission with the same results.
Which reinforces my opinion regarding the fact that Obama had to "sleep on it"; smells just as fishy as the cloud surrounding the ID and the "burial".
bin Laden's lying there like a fried egg, and it takes "guts" to pop him in the head? You gotta sleep on it?
Fishy.
This bullshit is political and Machiavellian, IMO.
Dusty,
I agree with you.
AL
dadof18x'er
05-04-2011, 07:50
Which reinforces my opinion regarding the fact that Obama had to "sleep on it"; smells just as fishy as the cloud surrounding the ID and the "burial".
bin Laden's lying there like a fried egg, and it takes "guts" to pop him in the head? You gotta sleep on it?
Fishy.
This bullshit is political and Machiavellian, IMO.
know we have a whole new issue to agonize over, to release the pics or not?
islamic sensitivities ? how can we maximize political points, yadayada
how long will they wring their hands before making another bonehead decision?
I watched "Shooter" last night to satisfy my conspiracy theory gene until there is more info given regarding the Abbottabadabingo op followed by "Taken: The Bill Hillar Story." I think Liam Neeson is more convincing than Hillar in the role.
I'm almost wishing the royal wedding would come back on - think I'll watch "Independence Day" tonight...the acting is much better in the movie than what's coming out of the current White House.
Richard :munchin
LOL.. I like you Richard... You funny...
I watched "Shooter" last night to satisfy my conspiracy theory gene until there is more info given regarding the Abbottabadabingo op followed by "Taken: The Bill Hillar Story." I think Liam Neeson is more convincing than Hillar in the role.
I'm almost wishing the royal wedding would come back on - think I'll watch "Independence Day" tonight...the acting is much better in the movie than what's coming out of the current White House.
Richard :munchin
:D:D:D
Utah Bob
05-04-2011, 08:31
I watched "Shooter" last night to satisfy my conspiracy theory gene until there is more info given regarding the Abbottabadabingo op followed by "Taken: The Bill Hillar Story." I think Liam Neeson is more convincing than Hillar in the role.
I'm almost wishing the royal wedding would come back on - think I'll watch "Independence Day" tonight...the acting is much better in the movie than what's coming out of the current White House.
Richard :munchin
I think I'll go with Men in black.:D
TheSiatonist
05-04-2011, 08:42
Which reinforces my opinion regarding the fact that Obama had to "sleep on it"; smells just as fishy as the cloud surrounding the ID and the "burial".
bin Laden's lying there like a fried egg, and it takes "guts" to pop him in the head? You gotta sleep on it?
Fishy.
This bullshit is political and Machiavellian, IMO.
The internet is lighting up again because of this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIO8B6fpFSQ
Not long ago, November second, she made this comment on David Frost’s show, “Frost Over the World”, which is broadcast on Al Jazeera English television. Sir David Frost asked her about the previous threats of assassination against her. Bhutto responded that she had contacted Musharraf. She felt that rather than focus on the organizations that it would be more important to go after three people who supported, financed, and organized these groups.
Sir David pushed further in getting her to mention who these three were, and Bhutto pretty much named them on the television.
Bhutto answered with no hesitation, “Yes, well one of them is a very key figure in security. He’s a former military officer. He’s someone who’s had dealings… and he also had dealings with Omar Sheikh (Ahmad Omar Saeed Sheikh), the man who murdered Osama bin Laden.”
Say what? The man who murdered bin Laden?
source (http://lethargy.wordpress.com/page/2/)
Dohhunter
05-04-2011, 09:24
DOD debriefing transcript has vague 'details' on the burial as well as the human shield and identity vetting aspects.
Maybe they'll release the picture afterall to provide even more debatable fodder.
Streck-Fu
05-04-2011, 11:29
There are 3000 Sailors on an aircraft carrier. OBL being buried from the Vinson would have had most trying to watch. I'd like to know how they pulled that off with out some kid getting a video onto to youtube. They could have shut down access but those kids are very enterprising.
I have a hard time accepting that they don't want to release the photo of OBL nor his burial video.
It is too easy for the Imams to deny his death and feeds the conspiracy theories.
ReefBlue
05-04-2011, 11:37
There are 3000 Sailors on an aircraft carrier. OBL being buried from the Vinson would have had most trying to watch. I'd like to know how they pulled that off with out some kid getting a video onto to youtube. They could have shut down access but those kids are very enterprising.
I have a hard time accepting that they don't want to release the photo of OBL nor his burial video.
It is too easy for the Imams to deny his death and feeds the conspiracy theories.
Go to General Quarters and lock down the fantail so no one not involved can see anything.
He may have even been put into a rhib with only the most essential people onboard instead of being dropped off of the ship itself..
DeltaGolf
05-04-2011, 12:18
And I'm telling you there was almost "zero" risk........ two drunk SEALS could have carried out the mission with the same results......;) Now knowing it was almost 99.999999% riskless what say you?
And I embellish, one SEAL could have carried out that mission with the same results.
As I said, I defer to your expertise and experience. :D
That said, I'd like to clarify my earlier comments. I'm not suggesting that Obama is a hero, or that his "go" order was a spectacular occurrence. I simply gave him credit for getting this one right. Sometimes even a blind hog finds some mud to wallow in.
I don't think this remotely makes up for his naive foreign policy decisions, including his attempt to strong arm Israel into peace negotiations with the Palestinians, his desire to engage Iran, and his general handling of the WOT. Perhaps not surprisingly, the NYT today has an editorial stating "Mr. Obama’s risky and audacious decision to attack the Bin Laden compound in Pakistan has demolished the notion that he cannot make tough decisions[.]" :eek: Yeah, as if. 2 days after giving the ok, the Administration is agonizing over releasing photos? Well, looks like the President is back in character. I'll be interested to see how he deals with the Hamas/Fatah agreement, given Hamas' response to Bin Laden's death. How will he deal with Pakistan now that it's clear that she harbored the world's most wanted terrorist?
My hope is that Obama is learning and will take a more realistic approach to foreign policy. My belief is that he will not. I'm not happy with the excuses being offered as reasons to withhold the photos. "Too gruesome"? Really? Since when has that been a concern? "Might cause retaliation"? Oh. You mean their not trying to kill us now?
Yep, back to business as usual.
GratefulCitizen
05-04-2011, 12:26
Heard a description of the raid on the radio yesterday.
Commenter said the building was cleared from the bottom up...
That seemed odd.
Wouldn't it be safer to clear it from the top down?
Whatever the truth is, it'll never be public.
Guess we don't really need to know, anway.
After just a few days, they're already moving for withdrawal from A-stan and budget cuts.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/159123-pressure-builds-to-end-the-afghan-war
Budget talks will be shifted to cutting military spending.
Never let a crisis (or success) go to waste.
From the article:
A new poll released Wednesday by Gallup found more than 50 percent of Americans still think the country has work to do in Afghanistan, but also revealed a significant party split.
Fifty-four percent of Democrats said the U.S. had achieved its goal in Afghanistan, compared to 38 percent of Republicans and 44 percent of independents.
On Capitol Hill, many lawmakers are worried not only about those polls, but about the cost of continuing the war at a time of record deficits. The fact that recent attempted attacks on U.S. soil have been hatched in other countries also has raised questions about continuing the fight in Afghanistan.
During a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on Tuesday, several committee members zeroed in on the tens of billions of dollars Washington already has spent in Afghanistan, and questioned whether such expenditures are sustainable in the future.
As I said, I defer to your expertise and experience. :D
That said, I'd like to clarify my earlier comments. I'm not suggesting that Obama is a hero, or that his "go" order was a spectacular occurrence. I simply gave him credit for getting this one right. Sometimes even a blind hog finds some mud to wallow in.
I don't think this remotely makes up for his naive foreign policy decisions, including his attempt to strong arm Israel into peace negotiations with the Palestinians, his desire to engage Iran, and his general handling of the WOT. Perhaps not surprisingly, the NYT today has an editorial stating "Mr. Obama’s risky and audacious decision to attack the Bin Laden compound in Pakistan has demolished the notion that he cannot make tough decisions[.]" :eek: Yeah, as if. 2 days after giving the ok, the Administration is agonizing over releasing photos? Well, looks like the President is back in character. I'll be interested to see how he deals with the Hamas/Fatah agreement, given Hamas' response to Bin Laden's death. How will he deal with Pakistan now that it's clear that she harbored the world's most wanted terrorist?
My hope is that Obama is learning and will take a more realistic approach to foreign policy. My belief is that he will not. I'm not happy with the excuses being offered as reasons to withhold the photos. "Too gruesome"? Really? Since when has that been a concern? "Might cause retaliation"? Oh. You mean their not trying to kill us now?
Yep, back to business as usual.
It's obvious you love the man. Ditch the shovel.
DeltaGolf
05-04-2011, 12:28
Obama has apparently just decided NOT to release the photos. Jesus fucking Christ. Is he learning impaired? He just released his birth certificate to (finally) quash the "silliness" of the birthers, and now he won't release the photos of Bin Laden? Well, at least he's back to acting in character.
DeltaGolf
05-04-2011, 12:31
It's obvious you love the man. Ditch the shovel.
Yeah, whatever. You're a funny man, Dusty.
Obama has apparently just decided NOT to release the photos. Jesus fucking Christ. Is he learning impaired? He just released his birth certificate to (finally) quash the "silliness" of the birthers, and now he won't release the photos of Bin Laden? Well, at least he's back to acting in character.
All we are saying is give Trump a chance.
The BHO folks seem to be having a rather difficult time communicating a coherent message regarding the facts pertaining to this mission - and this is with a very pro-BHO and relatively compliant press corps.
Holder continues to appear as an ineffective tool of the administration. A couple of topics are covered in this article but the primary discussion is about the death of bin Laden - but - Fast and Furious is mentioned as well as Holder's failure to prosecute a possible breach of national security.
Holder, like his boss, is an incompetent and near worthless tool.
Holder concerned over revenge for bin Laden
By Associated Press
Wednesday, May 4, 2011
Boston Herald
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/us_politics/view/20110504holder_concerned_over_revenge_for_bin_lade n/srvc=news&position=recent_bullet
WASHINGTON — Attorney General Eric Holder expressed serious concern about Americans’ safety from possible revenge attacks for Osama bin Laden’s death and expects the terrorist watch list will be expanded based on evidence collected in the al Qaida leader’s home.
Holder also said the raid was "entirely lawful and consistent with our values."
Holder told the Senate Judiciary Committee in testimony today that he thinks bin Laden’s death ultimately will make the United States safer. But meanwhile, he’s trying to address the risk that terrorists will try to avenge his killing.
Holder said he held a conference call earlier this week with U.S. attorneys nationwide to go through steps he wants them to take to be on their toes. He did not specify what those steps are.
Holder also said officials from his department are working with intelligence officers to examine evidence collected from bin Laden’s residence in Pakistan. He said he expects names will be added to the terrorist watch list and no-fly list because of it.
The attorney general agreed with Sen. Lindsay Graham, R-S.C., that there was a sound legal basis for the raid.
"Let me make something very clear: The operation in which Osama bin Laden was killed was lawful," Holder told the senators. The raid "was justified as an action of national self-defense" against "a lawful military target," he said.
White House officials earlier said the people who carried out the raid were prepared to take bid Laden alive if he was willing to surrender but instead he resisted capture. Holder basically reiterated that.
"If he attempted to surrender, we obviously should have accepted that," Holder said. "But there’s no indication he wanted that. It was a kill or capture mission. I’m proud of what they did. And I really want to emphasize what they did was entirely lawful and consistent with our values."
Holder was under a second day of oversight questioning on Capitol Hill; Tuesday he was questioned by the House Judiciary Committee.
Iowa Sen. Chuck Grassley, the panel’s ranking Republican, questioned Holder about a chart he said was prepared by the Justice Department’s Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in response to a controversy over the efforts of U.S. agents who hunt gun traffickers along the U.S. border with Mexico.
The chart showed 15 people indicted in January were responsible for buying 1,318 guns from Arizona dealers after being identified as targets of Fast and Furious, the agency’s name for its anti-gun-trafficking program. The chart dated March 29 said only 250 of these weapons have been recovered in the United States.
Holder replied that he was seeing the document for the first time at the hearing so he could not answer questions about it.
Grassley and fellow GOP panel member Sen. Jeff Sessions of Alabama also criticized Holder for the decision not to prosecute one of Justice’s former attorneys who tipped off the media about the Bush administration’s warrantless eavesdropping program. They said they were disappointed to read news reports last week that Thomas Tamm will not be prosecuted for the leak that he acknowledged making to the New York Times and that then-President George W. Bush called a breach of national security.
"It just seems to me that it sends a very, very bad signal that leaking is OK and you aren’t going to get prosecuted for it," Grassley said.
Holder said the decision was made by career attorneys in the department and he did not sign off on it and couldn’t comment on why Tamm wasn’t prosecuted.
DeltaGolf
05-04-2011, 12:40
All we are saying is give Trump a chance.
Roger that.
GratefulCitizen
05-04-2011, 12:40
Yeah, whatever. You're a funny man, Dusty.
:eek:
Suspect we're all about to witness the difference between bravery and stupidity.
Obama has apparently just decided NOT to release the photos. Jesus fucking Christ. Is he learning impaired? He just released his birth certificate to (finally) quash the "silliness" of the birthers, and now he won't release the photos of Bin Laden? Well, at least he's back to acting in character.
Well guess that clears up any doubt ...sigh all insanity ...Makes my head hurt
:eek:
Suspect we're all about to witness the difference between bravery and stupidity.
He's new, but he is definitely on somebody's radar...:munchin
DeltaGolf
05-04-2011, 12:59
:eek:
Suspect we're all about to witness the difference between bravery and stupidity.
He's new, but he is definitely on somebody's radar...:munchin
Really? Being accused of loving Obama is funny to me. I know I'm new, but I don't think I've posted anything that could be taken as offensive or disrespectful.
Really? Being accused of loving Obama is funny to me. I know I'm new, but I don't think I've posted anything that could be taken as offensive or disrespectful.
You're all right, dude; no worries.
My screen name isn't green.
DeltaGolf
05-04-2011, 13:19
You're all right, dude; no worries.
My screen name isn't green.
Thanks.
hydrashok
05-04-2011, 13:27
Looks like Obama isn't going to release the pictures.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/05/04/bin.laden.photo.release/index.html
Peregrino
05-04-2011, 13:38
You're all right, dude; no worries.
My screen name isn't green.
You rang? :munchin
You rang? :munchin
It's cool, Bro; evidently "Maverick" was already taken as a screen name...
Dohhunter
05-04-2011, 13:49
Imagine how the American people would react if al Qaeda killed one of our troops or military leaders, and put photos of the body on the Internet. Osama bin Laden is not a trophy
Holy fuck. Seriously?
hydrashok
05-04-2011, 13:54
Holy fuck. Seriously?
My sentiments exactly.
Billy L-bach
05-04-2011, 14:38
The more I watch the news the more I wonder...
Is Jimmy Hoffa alive and living in Pakistan?
Smokin Joe
05-04-2011, 15:07
Looks like Obama isn't going to release the pictures.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/05/04/bin.laden.photo.release/index.html
Until someone files for freedom of information. Good luck classifying it. I would say anyone who has lost a loved one in the GWOT or during 9/11 will have standing in their request. Just my .02 cents.
It is mind blowing to me how unbelievably short sighted bho is.
Is Jimmy Hoffa alive and living in Pakistan?
Not since Sunday. :p
Richard :munchin
My sentiments exactly.
x3:confused:
Streck-Fu
05-04-2011, 15:48
It is mind blowing to me how unbelievably short sighted bho is.
He was willing to release the photos of the alleged abuses at Abu Grahib but this is too offensive to Muslims.....I don't get it.
I am of the opinion that this photo doesn't belong to the Government it belongs to the people of the U.S. I know that seems like an over the top sentiment, but it makes sense.
9/11 affected very tangibly every citizen in the U.S. and much of the world for that matter. We often hear and use terms like pre and post 9/11. To me any citizen that wishes to see photo's of dead Osama should have that right. It is akin to inviting families to watch the execution of a murderer. It is a way to balance the scales of justice.
I'm not advocating releasing information of the operation, people involved, sources etc., but because we can't watch his trial/execution the photos seem to be the only way to obtain the closure that I think many in America are seeking after a decade.
I don't buy the argument about it being a risk to national security. Without the photo his assasination is still going to be used as a propaganda tool for those who would use it as such. Those who would seek to kill us, will continue to do so.
I just don't think that they should deny us access to the photos of the most wanted man of 21st century, while they pass it around capital hill like a playboy in a dorm.
He was willing to release the photos of the alleged abuses at Abu Grahib but this is too offensive to Muslims.....I don't get it.
exactly ...I been screaming that all day ,but I do get it ...He cares nothing about America ,or the Military ..typical Obama
I personally believe 9/11 families ,and Military Families have the right to see the PROOF :rolleyes: ....that he was indeed recently killed ..JMPO ..
mark46th
05-04-2011, 17:07
Richard & Billy L- Jimmy "The Weasel" Fratiano said in an interview, years ago, that Jimmy Hoffa is a hubcap on a Buick.
Would it really help to release the photo?
People who want to believe that he's dead will say "There, see?" And people who want to believe it's a lie will say: "It's a fake."
Seems like it's a lose-lose.
Do people say the same thing about Saddam? Why was his death photo released? It ended all doubt (or almost all doubt).
I guarantee that this operation had more video cameras than most. If people say the photo is a fake, then show the helmet cam of the guy who last saw him alive.
But to answer your question, yes it will help to release the photo. It's not going to excite the Islamic world any more than they already are.
Viper19114
05-04-2011, 17:32
This goes to show that we will never forget. Outstanding ST6, once again you came through. Your the best of the best.
Viper19114
05-04-2011, 17:40
Philadelphia, Pa KYW Radio 1060 AM reported and I quote "The United States has sent a hit team into Pakistan and assianated Osama Bin Laden. Unquote. Needless to say I will never listen to this station again.
Well it's after 5 I think I'll go mix a Bin Laden before supper.
Two shots and a splash of water....nice. :D
ReefBlue
05-04-2011, 17:52
show the helmet cam of the guy who last saw him alive.
I don't think we'll ever see the video of him getting killed.
Suppose they were under orders to kill him no matter what?
Would it be impossible to consider after all the smoke cleared that they stood him up and shot him in the head?
I find it hard to believe we actually wanted him alive. His chapter is over, if we capture him alive, it takes two years to find a trial location, a year trial, then what, put him to death? Talk about problems.
This goes to show that we will never forget. Outstanding ST6, once again you came through. Your the best of the best.
I beg to differ.
Broadsword2004
05-04-2011, 18:38
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/top-secret-stealth-helicopter-program-revealed-osama-bin/story?id=13530693 - Apparently some parts of the Blackhawk that the SEALs destroyed were not destroyed, and now the Pakistanis (and likely the Chinese) are going to get them.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/top-secret-stealth-helicopter-program-revealed-osama-bin/story?id=13530693 - Apparently some parts of the Blackhawk that the SEALs destroyed were not destroyed, and now the Pakistanis (and likely the Chinese) are going to get them.
We would never conduct an airstrike to completely destroy the bird...especially in an allies front yard.
Hats off to ST6, I wish it was Delta( THATS A WHOLE OTHER CONVERSATION) but w/e we got him and he is dead..
Thank You President Obama for making the right Presidential decisions, instead of using airstrikes or working with Pakistan you sent in a small team of one of America's most elite units and they got the job done. So much for liberals being cowards :)
News men and women walking safely about the 'kill house".
One man was the only one on twitter the night of the attack, "sure wish the helicopter would go away, ...bad helicopter".
Reported it was a one sided firefight, strange, please explain the fight in a one sided shoot out.
SEALs were using a term called "super clearing operation", bet Obama is wishing he knew how to use that technique himself.
A lot of local people are having their doubts that OBL was actually living "next door".
Let me guess, we will now destroy and take down the compound, destroying all evidence.
Standby folks, more to come,....
Hats off to ST6, I wish it was Delta( THATS A WHOLE OTHER CONVERSATION) but w/e we got him and he is dead..
Thank You President Obama for making the right Presidential decisions, instead of using airstrikes or working with Pakistan you sent in a small team of one of America's most elite units and they got the job done. So much for liberals being cowards :)
What are you newbies trying to do-see who can post the most imbecilic comment?
I don't know how many liberals were on the team that shot whoever they shot, but Obama was a couple miles away, at least-right?
Ballsy?
It took 3 Presidents and the unflagging commitment of untold 'worker bees' (as Presidents came and went) to track and bring OBL to justice.
Kudos to them all.
Richard :munchin
I dont feel my comment was idiotic..
When people make statements about the Commander and Chief referring to him as " The One"
That to me is a idiotic statement.
When Bush was at a press conference and asked where Bin Laden is and his response was " I dont know where he is, i dont care where he is" Thats a Idiotic statement.
I dont know if the SEALs on the team are liberals and i wasn't implying that. Conservatives and Republican's have said over the decades Liberals are soft when it comes to using military might and are soft on terrorism, I think the evidence and the facts of recent events have clearly shown thats just not accurate.
I dont feel my comment was idiotic..
Dude, you're over reacting. He said "imbecilic", not "idiotic". There's a difference. ;) It's better.
Pat
I dont feel my comment was idiotic..
When people make statements about the Commander and Chief referring to him as " The One"
That to me is a idiotic statement.
When Bush was at a press conference and asked where Bin Laden is and his response was " I dont know where he is, i dont care where he is" Thats a Idiotic statement.
I dont know if the SEALs on the team are liberals and i wasn't implying that. Conservatives and Republican's have said over the decades Liberals are soft when it comes to using military might and are soft on terrorism, I think the evidence and the facts of recent events have clearly shown thats just not accurate.
I don't want to deviate this thread but I have a problem with how you are portraying that quote from President Bush. I've been hearing that quote brought up a lot on liberal talk radio, to try and make the case that UBLs end was the work of only Obama's team.
Frankly, him stating that he didn't know where UBL was and that it wasn't priority number one due to the fact that at that point he had escaped and could have been in any number of arabic nations while we were already in the middle of 2 wars, is not the same as saying he did not care.
He recognized that at that point things were much more escalated than just a one man manhunt. Simply not being priority number one while your trying to nation build does not mean that no one was working on it, obviously.
The Video of Bush's Q&A backs up what I said here, not your opinion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apLVd7_66ds&feature=related
Furthermore, I don't think that one instance of "liberals not being soft on terrorism" constitutes a trend. IMHO, Obama scored a touchdown by taking out UBL but then he missed the extra point by holding on to the pictures that belong to the American people for sensitivity reasons. That is not being hard on terrorism, that is pandering to enemy.
The Reaper
05-04-2011, 22:14
I am growing weary of kids with zero military experience, and apparently very little political knowledge, spouting off on this thread with their uninformed opinions about the operation, the units involved, the numbers of personnel, the types and numbers of aircraft, the tactics, and the supremacy of the POTUS for having allowed it to take place while he watched the action unfold on TV from his office thousands of miles away.
I have just wasted the better part of thirty minutes of my evening wading through innumerable pissing contests and more than a half dozen pages of posts here which could be condensed to less than a paragraph of real substance. I am truly disappointed.
People who have the right to vote for a POTUS based on "coolness" without the common sense to pour piss out of a boot with directions on the bottom are sorely trying my patience.
Frankly, if you are not a QP here, I don't give a damn what your opinion is, or what you think might or might not have happened. You are a guest. Conduct yourself accordingly or move out and draw fire.
Hint for newbies: Contentious threads like this are probably not a good place to start padding your post count.
I don't care if Osama was shot once, twice, or a hundred times. It doesn't matter to me what type of aircraft were involved. I don't care if Osama was armed, unarmed, asleep, drunk, or on a prayer rug at the time. As long as he is dead, I am happy. None of my brothers were killed while taking out this trash. Doubly happy.
I do think there is a problem with the time line, the locations, the differing versions that seem to be emerging, and the fact that Obama may not have actually made the decision to execute. In fact, he may have put a subordinate on the spot for the decision, and yet seems to be reaping an inordinate amount of the credit for others' actions now.
If you have an informed opinion or a piece of info to offer, fine. More than happy to read it. If you think I might be referring to you, ask yourself if what you want to post really adds anything to this discussion. If not, please go back to wherever you were posting before you came here and post it there.
Just looking for the right one who fails to comprehend the above to make an example of. Easier to eliminate the problem in thirty seconds now than to put up with it for the next few dozen posts, and then have to do the same thing anyway.
Please continue.
TR
I guess we will never know what bush was thinking when he said that, your Opinion is the stance you just took. An my stance has already been made clear on what i believe.
I guess some of us kinda broke that unwritten rule of no religion no politics.
If i insulted QP's or other military members in this thread I apologize. Just because we may differ in politics doesn't mean i don't have respect for all of you because I do.
Yeah.. I didn't mean to overreact, I got keyboard commando for a second. However, in my defense to be a Imbecile and a Idiot are counterpart words to each other. :)
Snaquebite
05-04-2011, 23:33
I guess we will never know what bush was thinking when he said that, your Opinion is the stance you just took. An my stance has already been made clear on what i believe.
I guess some of us kinda broke that unwritten rule of no religion no politics.
If i insulted QP's or other military members in this thread I apologize. Just because we may differ in politics doesn't mean i don't have respect for all of you because I do.
Yeah.. I didn't mean to overreact, I got keyboard commando for a second. However, in my defense to be a Imbecile and a Idiot are counterpart words to each other. :)
John88....I think you need to sit back and be a spectator, as a moderator I don't have the capability to shut you up...but I feel that is coming really soon. As for the others as TR referred to, if you can't contribute something of significance, don't post...you will only find yourself restricted from posting or else banned for just being an annoyance.
Just released 'proof' for the under 40 generation. :D :D
Richard :munchin
Bill Harsey
05-05-2011, 07:55
TR, Snaquebite,
Well said.
For anyone new here these are a couple of men that one would do well to listen to.
For anyone who thinks " a liberal" got all tough and stuff read this...
http://patdollard.com/2011/05/obama-hesitated-%E2%80%93-panetta-issued-order-to-kill-osama-bin-laden/
Just released 'proof' for the under 40 generation. :D :D
Richard
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ......
Classic ... just classic.
:lifter
Pat Dollard is conservative so I'm not to surprised at that article, just more conservative propaganda to undermine the President because they can't stand a Black Man in the oval office. Thats what the nonsense birther issue is all about, its a white conservative coward way of calling him the "N" word..
However, Im gonna dismissing the article i just havent heard this mentioned in main stream media. I have heard this spread throughout conservative Internet and radio sources.
1stindoor
05-05-2011, 12:06
...just more conservative propaganda to undermine the President because they can't stand a Black Man in the oval office. Thats what the nonsense birther issue is all about, its a white conservative coward way of calling him the "N" word..
.
Care for some more Kool-Aid sir?
Pat Dollard is conservative so I'm not to surprised at that article, just more conservative propaganda to undermine the President because they can't stand a Black Man in the oval office. Thats what the nonsense birther issue is all about, its a white conservative coward way of calling him the "N" word..
However, Im gonna dismissing the article i just havent heard this mentioned in main stream media. I have heard this spread throughout conservative Internet and radio sources.
Some of the QPs have been kind enough to say some of your comments are imbissilic. I'm not that nice. You are an idiot. I am tired of liberals such as yourself telling someone like me, ie not liberal, that I am a racist because I take issue with the POTUS' politics. I do not have a racist bone in my body.
My dislike for the man has absolutely nothing to do with the color of his skin. It has to do with his lack of experience his lack of moral fortitude and his clear hatred of over half this country that he labels his "enemies".
You are a clueless idiot.
incarcerated
05-05-2011, 12:41
Pat Dollard is conservative so I'm not to surprised at that article, just more conservative propaganda to undermine the President because they can't stand a Black Man in the oval office. Thats what the nonsense birther issue is all about, its a white conservative coward way of calling him the "N" word..
However, Im gonna dismissing the article i just havent heard this mentioned in main stream media. I have heard this spread throughout conservative Internet and radio sources.
Son, I’ve watched rapists, murderers and a cop killer walk free on legal technicalities that were much smaller than an inability to prove citizenship. That’s the world that Liberalism and liberal judges have given us. Legal technicalities carry enormous weight and are tremendously important. You’re telling me that anyone raising the issue of his legal qualification to run for President against Obama is a racist?
An article is invalid because a Conservative published it and the MSM isn’t carrying it?
If the Dollard piece has a weakness, it is that its source is anonymous. Why couldn’t you identify that and criticize it on that basis?
Conservatives oppose the President because he is black?
Nice stereotyping. Junior, you are a bigot.
Pat Dollard is conservative so I'm not to surprised at that article, just more conservative propaganda to undermine the President because they can't stand a Black Man in the oval office. Thats what the nonsense birther issue is all about, its a white conservative coward way of calling him the "N" word..
However, Im gonna dismissing the article i just havent heard this mentioned in main stream media. I have heard this spread throughout conservative Internet and radio sources.
lol Your panties are showing, Rachel.
Son, I’ve watched rapists, murderers and a cop killer walk free on legal technicalities that were much smaller than an inability to prove citizenship. That’s the world that Liberalism and liberal judges have given us. You’re telling me that anyone raising the issue of his legal qualification to run for President against Obama is a racist?
An article is invalid because the MSM isn’t carrying it?
If the Dollard piece has a weakness, it is that its source is anonymous. Why couldn’t you identify that and criticize it on that basis?
Conservatives oppose the President because he is black?
Nice stereotyping. Junior, you are a bigot.
I have never made the point that all conservatives are racist .
Yes, the Liberals are not perfect and sometimes very stupid as well.
however, when you have the STATE OF HAWAII ( a republican state) verify the Presidents citizenship is 100% legitimate and white people are still not convienced, there is only one conclusion to be made. Wasn't McCain born down by the Panama Canal? wouldnt that be more of a issue than the president being born in Hawaii?
I have seen police kill innocent people by wrongfully gunning them down and hitting them with there police cruisers while driving drunk, which is always a pleasant endeavor and be set free by the court of law.
I have seen people wrongfully accused of rape and rotted in jail only to find out years later the justice system was wrong.
The justice system be it liberal or conservative is highly highly flawed. period.
Im sorry you think Im being a bigot...
hydrashok
05-05-2011, 13:05
Wait for it...........:munchin
Surgicalcric
05-05-2011, 13:07
...when you have the STATE OF HAWAII ( a republican state) verify the Presidents citizenship is 100% legitimate and white people are still not convinced.
It isnt just "white" people; though the MSM would have us believe differently.
It isnt just "white" people; though the MSM would have us believe differently.
lol Yeah, I'm Cherokee and Coonass and I don't believe it's legit. :D
incarcerated
05-05-2011, 13:20
I have never made the point that all conservatives are racist .
Yes, the Liberals are not perfect and sometimes very stupid as well.
however, when you have the STATE OF HAWAII ( a republican state) verify the Presidents citizenship is 100% legitimate and white people are still not convienced, there is only one conclusion to be made. Wasn't McCain born down by the Panama Canal? wouldnt that be more of a issue than the president being born in Hawaii?
I have seen police kill innocent people by wrongfully gunning them down and hitting them with there police cruisers while driving drunk, which is always a pleasant endeavor and be set free by the court of law.
I have seen people wrongfully accused of rape and rotted in jail only to find out years later the justice system was wrong.
The justice system be it liberal or conservative is highly highly flawed. period.
Im sorry you think Im being a bigot...
Keep going. Your arguments are merely specimens of prejudice. Free free to discriminate against my ethnicity and beliefs any time: you are providing a wonderful example of a very important point. Many in society and particularly in the media espouse human rights and liberal values, yet they feel that it is perfectly fine (if not a virtue) to discriminate against Conservatives.
In your case, you do not display any ability to make a rational argument, nor do you seem to have any awareness of your prejudice. It gives me no pleasure to say that. You are not unique in this regard, in my experience.
incarcerated,
I am not prejudice towards your ethnicity , I don't even know what your ethnicity is.
I happen to be Italian and Irish, I happen to know very well what racism is all about growing up in a typical Sicilian home in Hudson County, New Jersey . However, Its seems the majority on this thread strongly disagree with some of my views. Therefore, I will concede my argument out of respect for the rest of the members. I do not want to risk being banned, I actually do enjoy my stay here on professional soldiers and i wish to keep it that way.
Dear john88,
You and others have completely sidetracked this thread.
So you are liberal. Great. As an American, be who you believe you should be. When I was in college I also thought I knew everything, and if I didn't know it, I didn't care about it. All of that is part of the growing up process. Fine.
But why are you here? Wouldn't it serve you better to read, learn and open your mind? Like you, I haven't served. I may have strong opinions about things, but guess what? I have not put my life on the line for these opinions of mine, and neither have you. These gentlemen (and a few ladies here) have.
There are those on this board conversing with you that have to take a handful of pills every morning to even get out of bed, because they've been injured so many times in service of our nation. There are those on here in wheelchairs, homebound, missing arms or legs, in rehab....not to mention the majority on here that have lost family members, children, or their brothers who served alongside them. Does this describe you or I?
So when we are here AS GUESTS, on their forum, let us remember to consider who it is that is speaking....these men/women have been willing to die for you and me....isn't it odd that most of them have conservative views in general, and negative views in particular about our current president? Read, pay attention and try to find out why. Ask respectful questions. At the end of the day you may not agree with them and what you learn, but that is the only reason they allow us to be here.
Oh, and to use us as amusing chew toys. Take heed.
Sincerely,
orion5
1stindoor
05-05-2011, 13:46
I happen to be Italian and Irish, I happen to know very well what racism is all about growing up in a typical Sicilian home in Hudson County, New Jersey .
Maybe it's just me, but I'm not following you here. Does this mean that you grew up in a "racist" household? Are Sicilian's racist by nature? Or just your parents?
Or are you saying you were discriminated against because of your ethnicity? Is Hudson County a racist bigoted county that discriminates against Irish-Italians? How were the other ethnicities treated in comparison?
However, Its seems the majority on this thread strongly disagree with some of my views. Therefore, I will concede my argument out of respect for the rest of the members. I do not want to risk being banned, I actually do enjoy my stay here on professional soldiers and i wish to keep it that way.
No one is telling you that you are not free to have your own view. However you "defend" it by repeating the mantra of the very people that can not accept any kind of criticism of their views. Honestly, you're probably more in danger of being ignored than being banned.
incarcerated
05-05-2011, 13:54
Back to the thread…
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-clinton-situation-room-photo-20110505,0,4551952.story
Clinton: Situation Room expression may have been allergies, not anxiety
By Michael A. Memoli
Washington Bureau
May 5, 2011, 9:57 a.m.
Reporting from Washington — Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said Thursday that she can't be sure what she was watching in the now-iconic Situation Room photograph showing President Obama and his top security advisors during the mission that killed Osama bin Laden. But she suspects her dramatic pose may have more to do with Washington's notorious pollen count than any emotional reaction to the operation unfolding before her....
Bill Harsey
05-05-2011, 14:25
incarcerated,
I am not prejudice towards your ethnicity , I don't even know what your ethnicity is.
I happen to be Italian and Irish, I happen to know very well what racism is all about growing up in a typical Sicilian home in Hudson County, New Jersey . However, Its seems the majority on this thread strongly disagree with some of my views. Therefore, I will concede my argument out of respect for the rest of the members. I do not want to risk being banned, I actually do enjoy my stay here on professional soldiers and i wish to keep it that way.
John88,
some friendly advice and for clarity directed at you.
You have been politely advised by two QP's here to stand down.
This might be a good idea.
If you post again, do so at your own risk as my guess is your stay here could be measured in minutes or hours.
yes I am a moderator here.
Maybe it's just me, but I'm not following you here. Does this mean that you grew up in a "racist" household? Are Sicilian's racist by nature? Or just your parents?
Or are you saying you were discriminated against because of your ethnicity? Is Hudson County a racist bigoted county that discriminates against Irish-Italians? How were the other ethnicities treated in comparison?
1stindoor,
To a certain extent yes i did grow up in a racist house hold. I grew up with my Grandparents who grew up in North Newark and back then it was just understood the minority is to stay out, that it was a Italian Neighborhood. And that mindset was still present alittle bit when i was raised by them. The "N" word was used alot and they weren't afraid to call a black person that. My friends grandma use to throw Hot water out her apt window when a black person would walk by. Its just the way it was then. At the same time my grandparents raised a young black kid who lived in a shack around the corner way before i was ever born, his mother had died of cancer and he had no family. I have been jumped and beaten up simply because im white. Ive been hit in the head with a pipe and stabbed once. So I know alittle bit about race and the tension thats there.
Secondly, my family growing up was into alot of politics my uncle was a republican councilmen for my town so I knew the Mayor and pretty much ever other town politician and Id hear what they'd have to say regarding the minority at parties i went to and extra.
A matter of fact the township school psychologist who I know very very well Ive heard her make racial statements about Obama because he's Black. Just a few examples..
I have no problem listening and sharing knowledge. I am honestly not one of those bleeding heart liberals who just wants to hear the sound of my own voice.I take the information i research and look into seriously. Im not a Trolling advocate for the Liberal Ideology, Im not uninformed, Im not always right either. I am definitely willing to listen and learn from all of you..
Bill Harsey
05-05-2011, 14:40
incoming.
I am definitely willing to listen and learn from all of you..
You're in college........really?:eek:
Proof read and use spell check, PLEASE.
Reading your post's hurts my brain.:confused:
Bill Harsey
05-05-2011, 14:59
Your in college........really?:eek:
Proof read and use spell check, PLEASE.
Reading your post's hurts my brain.:confused:
john88 told me he is going to do as advised so go easy on him.
Back to the regular programming please.
Your in college........really?:eek:
Proof read and use spell check, PLEASE.
Reading your post's hurts my brain.:confused:
Same to you. *You're**
1stindoor
05-05-2011, 15:00
Your (in this case it would be you're)in college........really?:eek:
Proof read and use spell check, PLEASE.
Reading your post's hurts my brain.:confused:
This seems to be the day for everyone to heed that advice (myself included).
And with that...I'll bow out for the day.
Pat Dollard is conservative so I'm not to surprised at that article, just more conservative propaganda to undermine the President because they can't stand a Black Man in the oval office. Thats what the nonsense birther issue is all about, its a white conservative coward way of calling him the "N" word..
However, Im gonna dismissing the article i just havent heard this mentioned in main stream media. I have heard this spread throughout conservative Internet and radio sources.
Dude, you're lookin' at many soldiers that have served under very many different presidents, parties, secretaries of state (of different color now that you brought it up) and what have you.
I can't believe you question that we don't like him because of his color...that YOU brought out ...(hhmmm a "certain card") played???
It is insulting.
What credentials, and what qualifications....hmmm, lets, see, just what it would take to be one of "us" aka running America, does he have.
I would certainly NOT let someone with good speech writing abilities (or someone else's) come in to run my team...
In places thev've never even heard of...
That's how I feel, can't speak for anyone else....
Back to the thread…
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-clinton-situation-room-photo-20110505,0,4551952.story
Clinton: Situation Room expression may have been allergies, not anxiety
By Michael A. Memoli
Washington Bureau
May 5, 2011, 9:57 a.m.
Reporting from Washington — Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said Thursday that she can't be sure what she was watching in the now-iconic Situation Room photograph showing President Obama and his top security advisors during the mission that killed Osama bin Laden. But she suspects her dramatic pose may have more to do with Washington's notorious pollen count than any emotional reaction to the operation unfolding before her....
Allergies my ass. That's a picture-perfect display of horror at a gross death.
These people are incapable of telling the truth.
With all the examples we're given-every day-of the duplicity of liberal Democrats, it astounds me that anyone could be stupid enough to fall for their bullshit.
Same to you. *You're**
Oops!:eek:
incarcerated
05-05-2011, 15:40
Allergies my ass.
Most of the people seated in the room look unenthusiastic, uncomfortable, and out of their element. One whose expression differs is the attractive young woman in the back of the room, about whom, no one seems to have much familiarity.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-05-03/audrey-tomason-who-is-the-mystery-woman-in-the-situation-room-with-obama/?cid=hp:mainpromo3
….Who's the woman peeking her head from the back? A White House caption for the photo identifies her as Audrey Tomason with title "Director for Counterterrorism." But in a room full of oft-cited and quoted people, there's fleetingly little published information about who she is or what she does for the administration.
The presence of Tomason is notable for a few reasons. Next to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, she's the only other woman pictured in the testosterone-filled room. And she appears to be the only person under 40. But what matters most is that she is standing just a few feet from the president, who is otherwise surrounded by his closest advisers, as they watch one of the country's highest-stakes operations in decades as it occurs in real time….
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1383959/Who-Audrey-Tomason-The-mystery-woman-situation-room-photo.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
http://www.tuftsgloballeadership.org/programs/epiic/epiic-alumni/1997
Audrey Tomason worked as Americorps*VISTA and Associate at ACCION International after Tufts. She is attending the Kennedy School's master's in public policy program and is scheduled to graduate in 2003.
ACCION is a micro-lending group. Sounds similar to what the president’s mother once did for a living.
http://www.accion.org/#
http://www.accion.org/Page.aspx?pid=2274
Assisting Small Businesses in Cuba: Recommendations for Private and Public Sector Leaders.
Earlier this year, the Center for Financial Inclusion in collaboration with the Cuba Study Group and the Americas Society/Council of the Americas hosted the Cuba Small Business Summit in New York. The Summit brought together experts in the fields of microfinance, business education, and economic development to identify ways to support small and microentrepreneurs inside Cuba.
Out of this summit emerged a whitepaper entitled: “Supporting Small Business in Cuba: Recommendations for Private and Public Sector Leaders.” The report outlines specific steps that the Cuban government, the U.S. government and other players can take to support the growth of micro and small businesses in Cuba. It is being released just days before the Communist Party of Cuba celebrates its sixth congress.
Someone, presumably the White House, has put up a Wikipedia bio on her in the last 24 hours.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audrey_Tomason
....She previously was working in the Alec Station as one of the few analysts who had a deep knowledge of al-Qaida before 9/11. The Station opened in 1996, was an "interdisciplinary" group, drawing on personnel from the CIA, FBI, NSA and elsewhere in the intelligence community. Formally known as the Bin Ladin Issue Station, it was codenamed Alec Station, as referred to by Able Danger liaison Anthony Shaffer.[1]
She is suspected of being the CIA analyst involved with the case of German citizen Khalid El-Masri, who was captured and taken to a secret prison in Afghanistan for interrogation (with implications of torture) in 2003.[2]
She now runs the CIA's Global Jihad unit, the counterterrorism squad dedicated to hunting down al-Qaida worldwide. She regularly briefs Panetta, making her an influential voice in Obama's intelligence circle....
Broadsword2004
05-05-2011, 16:43
Allergies my ass. That's a picture-perfect display of horror at a gross death.
At another forum, one person described it as, "This is what people who have never seen violence up close look like when witnessing it executed on their order."
Roguish Lawyer
05-05-2011, 16:58
I am growing weary of kids with zero military experience, and apparently very little political knowledge, spouting off on this thread with their uninformed opinions about the operation, the units involved, the numbers of personnel, the types and numbers of aircraft, the tactics, and the supremacy of the POTUS for having allowed it to take place while he watched the action unfold on TV from his office thousands of miles away.
TR, if you look closely at the photo, POTUS appears to have been doing something else. ;)
Old Dog New Trick
05-05-2011, 17:21
TR, if you look closely at the photo, POTUS appears to have been doing something else. ;)
Damn it RL, you've shattered my perception. I was really trying to believe that he hadn't pulled the trigger and now I see that I'm wrong. :rolleyes:
I was also trying to stay out of this thread... :eek:
TR, if you look closely at the photo, POTUS appears to have been doing something else. ;)
He looks like he's just seen a haint.
Roguish Lawyer
05-05-2011, 17:38
I am growing weary of kids with zero military experience, and apparently very little political knowledge, spouting off on this thread with their uninformed opinions about the operation, the units involved, the numbers of personnel, the types and numbers of aircraft, the tactics, and the supremacy of the POTUS for having allowed it to take place while he watched the action unfold on TV from his office thousands of miles away.
I have just wasted the better part of thirty minutes of my evening wading through innumerable pissing contests and more than a half dozen pages of posts here which could be condensed to less than a paragraph of real substance. I am truly disappointed.
People who have the right to vote for a POTUS based on "coolness" without the common sense to pour piss out of a boot with directions on the bottom are sorely trying my patience.
Frankly, if you are not a QP here, I don't give a damn what your opinion is, or what you think might or might not have happened. You are a guest. Conduct yourself accordingly or move out and draw fire.
Hint for newbies: Contentious threads like this are probably not a good place to start padding your post count.
I don't care if Osama was shot once, twice, or a hundred times. It doesn't matter to me what type of aircraft were involved. I don't care if Osama was armed, unarmed, asleep, drunk, or on a prayer rug at the time. As long as he is dead, I am happy. None of my brothers were killed while taking out this trash. Doubly happy.
I do think there is a problem with the time line, the locations, the differing versions that seem to be emerging, and the fact that Obama may not have actually made the decision to execute. In fact, he may have put a subordinate on the spot for the decision, and yet seems to be reaping an inordinate amount of the credit for others' actions now.
If you have an informed opinion or a piece of info to offer, fine. More than happy to read it. If you think I might be referring to you, ask yourself if what you want to post really adds anything to this discussion. If not, please go back to wherever you were posting before you came here and post it there.
Just looking for the right one who fails to comprehend the above to make an example of. Easier to eliminate the problem in thirty seconds now than to put up with it for the next few dozen posts, and then have to do the same thing anyway.
Please continue.
TR
Since people do not seem to be listening, we are going to be taking some action now. I suggest that everyone pay heed.
Team Sergeant
05-05-2011, 17:48
Some of the QPs have been kind enough to say some of your comments are imbissilic. I'm not that nice. You are an idiot. I am tired of liberals such as yourself telling someone like me, ie not liberal, that I am a racist because I take issue with the POTUS' politics. I do not have a racist bone in my body.
My dislike for the man has absolutely nothing to do with the color of his skin. It has to do with his lack of experience his lack of moral fortitude and his clear hatred of over half this country that he labels his "enemies".
You are a clueless idiot.
I agree with afchic.
john88 is an idiot and now a Banned User.
TS
These people are incapable of telling the truth.
With all the examples we're given-every day-of the duplicity of liberal Democrats, it astounds me that anyone could be stupid enough to fall for their bullshit.
I'll say. Their stories, reports...whatever...on obl are changing by the hour. :rolleyes:
The Reaper
05-05-2011, 19:06
Pat Dollard is conservative so I'm not to surprised at that article, just more conservative propaganda to undermine the President because they can't stand a Black Man in the oval office. Thats what the nonsense birther issue is all about, its a white conservative coward way of calling him the "N" word..
However, Im gonna dismissing the article i just havent heard this mentioned in main stream media. I have heard this spread throughout conservative Internet and radio sources.
You, Sir, are an absolute, dyed in the wool, first class fucking imbecile.
Conservatives are all racists?
Hawaii is Republican?
Step away from the pipe, John. Open your mind to some facts and learn some things.
And adios, pendejo!
TR
Pat Dollard is conservative so I'm not to surprised at that article, just more conservative propaganda to undermine the President because they can't stand a Black Man in the oval office. Thats what the nonsense birther issue is all about, its a white conservative coward way of calling him the "N" word..
However, Im gonna dismissing the article i just havent heard this mentioned in main stream media. I have heard this spread throughout conservative Internet and radio sources.
Describing Pat Dollard as a conservative is kind of short changing him.....Pat isn't exactly 'White' either. If I am not mistaken Pat is of Puerto Rican and Jewish heritage, he doesn't give a shit what color you are, what political party you belong to or where you come from......he is just a guy who calls it like he sees and he ruffles feathers. He is a man who loves his country and who has spent his own time and money to personally venture where most Journalists don't dare tread.
His latest endeavor is the border. http://secureamericaforever.com/
B-bye John;)
Bill Harsey
05-05-2011, 20:28
Describing Pat Dollard as a conservative is kind of short changing him.....Pat isn't exactly 'White' either. If I am not mistaken Pat is of Puerto Rican and Jewish heritage, he doesn't give a shit what color you are, what political party you belong to or where you come from......he is just a guy who calls it like he sees and he ruffles feathers. He is a man who loves his country and who has spent his own time and money to personally venture where most Journalists don't dare tread.
His latest endeavor is the border. http://secureamericaforever.com/
B-bye John;)
Paslode,
Thanks. For the record I didn't and still do not have a clue who Pat Dollard is. I posted the link based simply on the content.
Also didn't know that because someone might be conservative that automatically negates the validity of the the information.
TR, if you look closely at the photo, POTUS appears to have been doing something else. ;)
Reading this I was going for the he was doing an NUMNER TWO.. ROTFLMAO.. now that is a funny Photo RL!!! GREAT ONE!!
incarcerated
05-05-2011, 22:11
Reading this I was going for the he was doing an NUMNER TWO.. ROTFLMAO..
Now we know why Hillary was holding her nose.
Need to photoshop a magazine or newspaper into his hands.
Roguish Lawyer
05-05-2011, 22:23
Reading this I was going for the he was doing an NUMNER TWO.. ROTFLMAO.. now that is a funny Photo RL!!! GREAT ONE!!
Thanks but I stole it
walleyed
05-05-2011, 22:37
thanks and humility to the quiet professionals who fight for our freedom and way of life. thanks to the one who received the honor of looking obl in the eye and double tapping...thoughts/observations:
a google search of 'quiet professionals' ranks this site #1. I originally found this site by googling how to kill bin laden.
45k views on this thread in 5 days. a record perhaps.
best quote so far 'bunch of hogs looking at a wristwatch' about the warroom pic.
best pic so far obama playing gameboy.
isi chief pasha in D.c. meeting with panetta week before raid. I think they were in on it. Furthermore, I think they were complicit in allowing obl to relocate there. Better to have him under their (and CIA) watchful eye than in a cave in the hindu kush. question is if they knew about it so long why did they let the dog live so long. timing very suspect.
obl a prideful idiot for believing he could live like that and not be found.
I could care less about the death pic. I believe he's gone.
I hate that bho is getting a rating boost out of it.
I like the burial at sea. i don't want the pic. I want this dog as insignificant as possible. I wish you guys could ghost these guys out with no press conference whatsoever. Next al awlaki. KSm needs to have an accident in prison. etc.
so very proud to be an American.
anotherjon
05-06-2011, 11:31
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/05/science/05dog.html?_r=2&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha23
The president is giving a speech in which he's linking the killing of Bin Laden to the withdrawal of American forces from Afghanistan. While he had always said he would do the former, it is increasingly clear that he's using the former as a tangible 'bench mark' to hold to that commitment.
The president is giving a speech in which he's linking the killing of Bin Laden to the withdrawal of American forces from Afghanistan. While he had always said he would do the former, it is increasingly clear that he's using the former as a tangible 'bench mark' to hold to that commitment.
Trust me. The public is gonna hear about the Big Showdown ad nauseum until it can no longer be viably exploited.
Trust me. The public is gonna hear about the Big Showdown ad nauseum until it can no longer be viably exploited.IMO, the White House is already changing the narrative from the Big Showdown to "The president kept his promise and had almost everyone home just in time for the election."
Buffalobob
05-06-2011, 16:27
thanks and humility to the quiet professionals who fight for our freedom and way of life. thanks to the one who received the honor of looking obl in the eye and double tapping...thoughts/observations:
a google search of 'quiet professionals' ranks this site #1. I originally found this site by googling how to kill bin laden.
45k views on this thread in 5 days. a record perhaps.
best quote so far 'bunch of hogs looking at a wristwatch' about the warroom pic.
best pic so far obama playing gameboy.
isi chief pasha in D.c. meeting with panetta week before raid. I think they were in on it. Furthermore, I think they were complicit in allowing obl to relocate there. Better to have him under their (and CIA) watchful eye than in a cave in the hindu kush. question is if they knew about it so long why did they let the dog live so long. timing very suspect.
obl a prideful idiot for believing he could live like that and not be found.
I could care less about the death pic. I believe he's gone.
I hate that bho is getting a rating boost out of it.
Remind me not to get sick while in Texas. Being an engineer and a physicist, I know my spelling and typing is not so great but this is totally absurd. I wonder who licenses MDs in Texas. Perhaps the license comes attached to the secret decoder ring on specially marked bottles of Ovaltine.
Team Sergeant
05-06-2011, 17:48
Remind me not to get sick while in Texas. Being an engineer and a physicist, I know my spelling and typing is not so great but this is totally absurd. I wonder who licenses MDs in Texas. Perhaps the license comes attached to the secret decoder ring on specially marked bottles of Ovaltine.
Be nice Buffalobob.;)
He or she answered a question for me. I had no idea why this website/forum exploded, now I know.
Welcome aboard walleyed, thanks for the info.
Team Sergeant
Broadsword2004
05-06-2011, 20:38
Anyone find it ironic that the President who was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize gave the order (or is believed to have given the order) to put a bullet into bin Laden's head? I mean, yeah, that's a way to make peace, but not the way the Nobel committee thinks of it :cool:
Anyone find it ironic that the President who was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize gave the order (or is believed to have given the order) to put a bullet into bin Laden's head? I mean, yeah, that's a way to make peace, but not the way the Nobel committee thinks of it :cool:
I don't know 'bout that. "Nobel" himself invented dynamite.
PedOncoDoc
05-07-2011, 08:27
Anyone find it ironic that the President who was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize gave the order (or is believed to have given the order) to put a bullet into bin Laden's head? I mean, yeah, that's a way to make peace, but not the way the Nobel committee thinks of it :cool:
I believe that he's also athorized the launch of more cruise missiles than any other Nobel Peace Prize winner (possibly all others combined), but I could be mistaken. ;)
I know it's been discussed elsewhere, but by awarding BHO a Nobel Peace Prize, the committee has devalued the work done by the other, deserving, winners.
Well...some deserving some not...Yassar Arafat??? Maybe he did some good, but he did it before his winning...not what he "may" do
PedOncoDoc
05-07-2011, 08:58
Well...some deserving some not...Yasar Arafat???
I never said all of them. Mother Teresa and Nelson Mandela are 2 examples.
I believe that he's also athorized the launch of more cruise missiles than any other Nobel Peace Prize winner (possibly all others combined), but I could be mistaken. ;)
I know it's been discussed elsewhere, but by awarding BHO a Nobel Peace Prize, the committee has devalued the work done by the other, deserving, winners.
eeehhhh.....
ETA: just yankin your chain...no offense
Ret10Echo
05-07-2011, 12:15
...No CRS in this case does not mean "Can't Remember S&*^" :D
For those of you unfamiliar "Congressional Research Service" under the Library of Congress.
Mission (From the CRS website)
CRS serves the Congress throughout the legislative process by providing comprehensive and reliable legislative research and analysis that are timely, objective, authoritative, and confidential, thereby contributing to an informed national legislature.
The coordinator is John Rollins:
Professor Rollins is a member of the Congressional Research Service (CRS), a branch of the Library of Congress, and serves as a Specialist in Terrorism, International Crime, Intelligence, and Homeland Security. Prior to joining CRS, Mr. Rollins was the Chief of Staff of the Office of Intelligence for the Department of Homeland Security. Mr. Rollins' career includes a variety of analytic, legal, and management positions in the U.S. Army, FBI, CIA, DIA , U.S. Marine Corps, 1st SFOD-D (Delta Force), and the United Nations. Mr. Rollins is a licensed attorney and graduate of the Senior Executive Fellowship program, Harvard University.
kawaishi
05-07-2011, 13:34
Here's my guess as to why they changed the story from it initially being a kill mission to it being a capture or kill mission. If this "inquiry" is as effective as anything else that the UN does then the President has little to worry about.
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=38293&Cr=terror&Cr1=
Muslim men are only allowed to take up to four wives correct? Hasn't OBL got five? Isn't that against Islamic laws?
Muslim men are only allowed to take up to four wives correct? Hasn't OBL got five? Isn't that against Islamic laws?
probably so...but we infidels aren't allowed to question...so..mute point to them.
Sort of like being on a plane with some ME women, as soon as you cross "the line" out come the party dresses...go figure..
incarcerated
05-08-2011, 03:13
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2011/may/6/dog-bites-terrorist/
Dog Bites Terrorist
James S. Robbins
Published on May 6, 2011
Working through contacts I managed to land an interview with the military working dog that accompanied the special operations forces during the raid on Osama bin Laden. The ground rules were that I could not mention his name or handler, but he told me to call him “Geronimo” because, as he explained, “Dogs appreciate irony.”
TWT: First let me congratulate you on the mission, the country is extremely proud of what you and the rest of the team accomplished.
Geronimo: Thank you.
TWT: I think a lot of Americans were surprised to learn a dog was along on the mission.
Geronimo: They shouldn’t be, military working dogs are serving all over the world, detecting IEDs, tracking down the enemy, we even get into some close quarters situations sometimes.
TWT: Like the raid on bin Laden in Abbottabad for example.
Geronimo: Yes, definitely. I can’t go into too much about what my role was in that mission but it was up close and personal for sure. Let me just say it’s going to take a lot of dog food to get the taste of that guy out of my mouth.
TWT: Was there anything you saw or sensed that the human members of the team might have missed?
Geronimo: Probably, I do a lot of work with scent trails. There were about six people in the house when we hit it but there was scent evidence of a lot more coming and going. I’d recognize them again if we came across them, just from the smell. And if you think there weren't tracks leading towards that Pakistan military academy down the road, think again my friend.
TWT: Do you have anything to say about the way the White House handled the public relations regarding the takedown operation?
Geronimo: I try to stay out of politics. Chain of command, that sort of thing. Yet I can’t help but think the higher ups hosed it up. Just lots of loose talk, lots of ego from people who never risked their biscuit. Seriously, these politicos are trying to make like they are bulldogs but they are coming off like a yapping pack of poodles. We handed a brilliant tactical victory to these bichons and they really screwed the pooch.
TWT: Would you say you are a hero?
Geronimo: No, I was just doing my job, like everyone else. It’s what we are trained to do. There are dogs in Iraq and Afghanistan and other places doing things at least as dangerous as the bin Laden mission if not more so. I have friends – well, had friends – over the years who didn’t make it back. You’ll never see their names on a wall. I keep hearing about a memorial planned for us but we’re happy to just get a pat on the head. And it’s better than it used to be, do you know that up until 2000 they used to euthanize us as “surplus equipment?” Stuff of nightmares, man.
TWT: Are you staying in the military?
Geronimo: Well I have thirty years in – that’s about four and a half in human years – so I could retire now with a nice pension, but I feel like I’d be letting my guys down. You know that old saying about “Man’s best friend?” Sounds corny, brother, but it’s true.
greenberetTFS
05-08-2011, 07:38
I heard on the WSJ this morning that they are going to "triple" the military budget for Special Operations Forces in 2012 ........... They claim their justification in doing this is it's the best way to go after the top terrorists because if the "snakes head is cut off they are not as willing to continue" ......... Not my words but the feedback their reporter got from an interview with General Boykin!...:confused:
Big Teddy :munchin
Paragrouper
05-08-2011, 08:07
[url]"I try to stay out of politics. Chain of command, that sort of thing. Yet I can’t help but think the higher ups hosed it up. Just lots of loose talk, lots of ego from people who never risked their biscuit. Seriously, these politicos are trying to make like they are bulldogs but they are coming off like a yapping pack of poodles. We handed a brilliant tactical victory to these bichons and they really screwed the pooch."
An apt description.
The Reaper
05-08-2011, 09:52
I heard on the WSJ this morning that they are going to "triple" the military budget for Special Operations Forces in 2012 ........... They claim their justification in doing this is it's the best way to go after the top terrorists because if the "snakes head is cut off they are not as willing to continue" ......... Not my words but the feedback their reporter got from an interview with General Boykin!...:confused:
Big Teddy :munchin
That must be some other part of SOF, because in Army SOF, they are looking at cutting budgets, letting contractors go, and eliminating a significant percentage of the civilian employees. We currently have a hiring freeze and most departing civilians are not replaced.
My understanding was that USSOCOM was also making a number of cuts in personnel and programs.
Hmm.
TR
I heard on the WSJ this morning that they are going to "triple" the military budget for Special Operations Forces in 2012 ........... They claim their justification in doing this is it's the best way to go after the top terrorists because if the "snakes head is cut off they are not as willing to continue" ......... Not my words but the feedback their reporter got from an interview with General Boykin!...:confused:
Big Teddy :munchin
Like TR said.. I don't believe it. ARSOF won't see any of it. If anything, only JSOC will get a budget increase.
Like TR said.. I don't believe it. ARSOF won't see any of it. If anything, only JSOC will get a budget increase.
I concur,
As we've always done, we've been providing much more bang for the buck, when compared to other Army organizations, while taking out enemy leadership for quite some time. Under this administration I believe "at best" our budgets will perhaps rise back to past levels but, not beyond....jd
Peregrino
05-08-2011, 19:02
Trippling the "SOF" budget would give the SEALs the extra Virginia Class Subs and latest generation SDVs they've been politicing for. After all - didn't they just prove they're worth it? Even if true - it isn't going to do a damn thing for SF. Too many platforms to maintain/purchase (what did the helo they just lost cost?) and every "Black" program costs astronomically more than an equivalent "White" program. Be a lot of happy congresscritters though as NAVSOC, AFSOC, and ARSOF Aviation spend money like water on jobs programs in their districts.
SOF budget means USSOCOM - how it gets divided up and where it goes from there is USSOCOM's decision.
Richard :munchin
Snaquebite
05-08-2011, 20:16
SOF budget means USSOCOM - how it gets divided up and where it goes from there is USSOCOM's decision.
Richard :munchin
and IMNSHO...It wo't go to SF......
Ironmike
05-09-2011, 07:45
I do believe that the body of Osama was buried at sea. But i would be willing to bet his head didn't go with him.
Utah Bob
05-09-2011, 17:22
That's correct. They needed it to check for rabies.:rolleyes:
Broadsword2004
05-09-2011, 19:58
I like the one letter on Bill O'Reilly: "...bin Laden's fate was SEALed":cool:
Q: What does the Titanic and Osama Bin Laden have in common?
A: Both are reported to be at the bottom of the sea, but we have proof of the Titanic.
dadof18x'er
05-10-2011, 12:24
very appropriate......
sorry, the pic did not work
And adios, pendejo!
Priceless!!!!
For those of you that don't speak Spanish, them fighting words.
Ret10Echo
05-10-2011, 18:46
Sponge Bob wrote last night...
He'd like the squatter in his pineapple removed....was wondering if there were any "seals" in the area.
greenlight
05-11-2011, 04:28
Q: What does the Titanic and Osama Bin Laden have in common?
A: Both are reported to be at the bottom of the sea, but we have proof of the Titanic.
Roger that. For my money Bin Laden died yrs ago but hey what do I know.
Bin Laden’s Widow Embarrassed House was Such a Mess
http://www.texascockroach.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=406:bin-ladens-widow-embarrassed-house-was-such-a-mess&catid=71:hunting-and-fishing&Itemid=169
"In an exclusive TCR interview, Osama Bin Laden’s widow, Amal Ahmed Abdul Fatah, revealed how horrified she was when the Navy Seals arrived at their Pakistan home. Ironically, it wasn’t the weapons fire or stealth helicopters that frightened his young wife, but the idea of visitors arriving unannounced while her house was “such a mess.” Amal said she begged the Seals for a few minutes to straighten up her bedroom, “but they thought I was trying to protect Osama, and shot me in the leg – no hard feelings, though. I can see how my actions could have been misinterpreted.”..........."
Satire - folks - satire.
Bin Laden’s Widow Embarrassed House was Such a Mess
http://www.texascockroach.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=406:bin-ladens-widow-embarrassed-house-was-such-a-mess&catid=71:hunting-and-fishing&Itemid=169
"In an exclusive TCR interview, Osama Bin Laden’s widow, Amal Ahmed Abdul Fatah, revealed how horrified she was when the Navy Seals arrived at their Pakistan home. Ironically, it wasn’t the weapons fire or stealth helicopters that frightened his young wife, but the idea of visitors arriving unannounced while her house was “such a mess.” Amal said she begged the Seals for a few minutes to straighten up her bedroom, “but they thought I was trying to protect Osama, and shot me in the leg – no hard feelings, though. I can see how my actions could have been misinterpreted.”...........
Satire - folks - satire.
:D:D:D:D
Had me goin'.
1stindoor
05-11-2011, 07:40
If anyone saw Saturday Night Live this past weekend there were two good sketches about OBL. The first one opened the show and showed Osama making a video living will. During the taping he repeatedly stated, "please don't have me buried at sea...you know how fearful I am of being eaten by fish." In the other segment, during the Weekend Update sketch the Devil was on talking about how hard it was having OBL in hell. "He's been living with like 9 wives and 23 kids...usually we like to start your eternity in hell with like 2 or 3 wives and 7 kids."
If anyone saw Saturday Night Live this past weekend there were two good sketches about OBL. The first one opened the show and showed Osama making a video living will. During the taping he repeatedly stated, "please don't have me buried at sea...you know how fearful I am of being eaten by fish." In the other segment, during the Weekend Update sketch the Devil was on talking about how hard it was having OBL in hell. "He's been living with like 9 wives and 23 kids...usually we like to start your eternity in hell with like 2 or 3 wives and 7 kids."
Video links here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45K-_V1seic) and here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW6sMcyfUbw)
1stindoor
05-11-2011, 08:25
Thanks. Can't access youtube at work.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/george-bush-reacts-publicly-osama-bin-laden-death/story?id=13592860
Former President George W. Bush made his first candid public comments on the killing of Osama bin Laden during an appearance Wednesday at a conference of hedge fund managers in Las Vegas.
"I was eating souffle at Rise Restaurant with Laura and two buddies," Bush said when asked what he was doing when he received the call from President Obama, according to an ABC News contributor who attended the event.
"I excused myself and went home to take the call," Bush said. "Obama simply said 'Osama Bin Laden is dead.'"
Bush said Obama described in detail the secret mission to raid bin Laden's Pakistani compound and the decision he made to put the plan into motion. He told Obama, "Good call."
The 43rd president and man who initiated the hunt for bin Laden after the 9/11 attacks has shied from the spotlight since news broke nearly two weeks ago. Bush has declined interview requests and Obama's invitation to join him at Ground Zero to meet with victims' families and first responders four days after the raid.
But appearing before the crowd of 1,800 at the glitzy Bellagio resort and casino, Bush appeared light-hearted and relaxed in talking about bin Laden's death.
When asked by forum moderator Melissa Lee of CNBC how he felt upon learning the news, Bush said he was "not overjoyed," explaining that the campaign to track down the 9/11 mastermind was done not "out of hatred but to exact judgment."
The development is ultimately a victory for the American people, he said.
"The guy is dead. That is good," Bush said of bin Laden. "Osama's death is a great victory in the war on terror. He was held up as a leader."
"The intelligence services deserve a lot of credit. They built a mosaic of information, piece by piece," he said, claiming no credit for himself.
"I met SEAL Team Six in Afghanistan. They are awesome, skilled, talented and brave," he added. "I said, 'I hope you have everything you need. One guy said, 'We need your permission to go into Pakistan and kick ass.'"
Bush said U.S. foreign policy needs to continue to promote the ideas of democracy and freedom as a way to combat global terrorism.
"The long-term solution is to promote a better ideology, which is freedom. Freedom is universal," Bush said. "People who do not look like us want freedom just as much. The relatives of [former Secretary of State]Condoleezza Rice over 100 years ago wanted freedom. It is only when you do not have hope in a society that you join a suicide bomber team."
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/george-bush-reacts-publicly-osama-bin-laden-death/story?id=13592860
"The long-term solution is to promote a better ideology, which is freedom. Freedom is universal," Bush said. "People who do not look like us want freedom just as much. The relatives of [former Secretary of State]Condoleezza Rice over 100 years ago wanted freedom. It is only when you do not have hope in a society that you join a suicide bomber team."
Question to you gentlemen: I have a lot of respect for George Bush, but do you believe that highlighted sentence is accurate?
Are the suicide bombers really "without hope"? I thought they were mostly middle class, educated, somewhat intelligent males who chose to honor their beliefs with their sacrifices because their Quran and their Mohammed tells them to do so. I know a bit about world religions and Islam after living abroad, but nowhere near the levels of Warrior-Mentor, PRB, SF-TX, Pete, T-Rock, etc... trying to understand, would it be correct to say their acts do not stem from "hopelessness", but are instead deliberate, well-planned and executed demonstrations of a committed Muslim?
It seems this point is central to understand. If, in fact, these suicide bomber Muslims are full of hope, emboldened by their beliefs, their rituals, and by the teachings of their mosques, then the answer is not to give the Muslim people of the world "hope". The answer is in the first part of Pres Bush's statement to "promote a better ideology, which is freedom" and quit painting these guys as the rejects of society.
Thanks.
Ret10Echo
05-13-2011, 14:23
"It is only when you do not have hope in a society that you join a suicide bomber team."
It is an application of a Western ideal. In my opinion, it does not transfer across cultures and demonstrates our (American) collective lack of understanding of Islam as a combined culture/society/religion/government.
YOMV
R10
Question to you gentlemen: I have a lot of respect for George Bush, but do you believe that highlighted sentence is accurate?
It seems this point is central to understand. If, in fact, these suicide bomber Muslims are full of hope...
...and change.