View Full Version : Sig Sauer P229
bigdaddy10493
03-30-2011, 23:39
Gentlemen,
I've been looking for a good, mid-size handgun for concealed carry and I stumbled upon the Sig Sauer P229. Now I'm a big fan of the 226 platform so the 229 really sparked my interest. It's compact, reliable, and chambered for .40 S&W. Pretty ideal for concealed carry. It almost sounds too good to be true though. So is it? Have any of you gentlemen who've had time on the 229 encountered any problems or had any kinds of issues with it? I've only heard good things about it so far but I thought I'd get some advice from the pros. Thanks
Combat Diver
03-31-2011, 01:19
The 229 is a 228 with a milled slide instead of a stamping. The 228 was adopted by the US military as the M11 in 9x19mm. I've carried both the 226 and M11 in Iraq without issues.
CD
bigdaddy10493
03-31-2011, 01:52
Glad to hear it. Thanks
mdpatterson
03-31-2011, 03:02
Not exactly ideal for CCW in all weather conditions. It's a double stack and fairly wide frame. I live in AZ so I'm speaking from a warm weather point of view.....you live in Florida so I'm guessing shorts and T-shirt most of the year for you too. I've owned many pistols I thought would be great for CCW, and almost all of them ended up being a hassle to carry daily.
This is just my opinion, but any weapon you intend on being a primary CCW should be something that you can throw in a pair of cargo shorts and forget it's there. I personally carry a S&W 360 PD. It's only 5 shots of .357 in a 12 oz frame, but I carry it everywhere. With that, I don't get in many gun fights and am fairly confident that those 5 shots will do the trick if I can't avoid the confrontation (It does require a little range time to feel the power of a .357 in such a light pistol.....but any firearm you carry should be taken to the range as often as possible to stay proficient).
Again, this is just my opinion and I do carry various pistols depending on the weather and clothing I'm wearing.......I just think you may find the 229 (Even the SAS version) a bit bulky for everyday carry.
P.S. If you can afford it, buy one anyway because they really are great pistols.......just don't get the Equinox or other crazy configuration lol.
Mike
RichL025
03-31-2011, 07:55
I'm a big Sig fan - I have a 226, 228 and a 229 (in .40)
The 228 is the only one I would carry concealed with any reasonable expectation of keeping it hidden. The 229 is a great gun, I love the hell out of it, but it's a bit thicker than the 228. With a light mounted to it, it is my bedside gun. I also infrequently use it for IDPA matches.
If you're interested in the Sig platform for a full-sie concealed pistol, look at buying a used 225 - it's basically a single-stack (thinner) 228...
Or if you're dead set on .40, consider a Kahr P40. I have a P9 as my every-day carry, it feels and shoots like a big pistol, but conceals like a small one. The P40 is only the tiniest bit bigger than the P9 (if I had to do it all over again, I might have gotten the P40 instead)
BingoBango
03-31-2011, 08:20
Agreed with all sentiments above as I carry a departmentally issued P229R. Have you considered the revised P229 E2? My armorer recently got a few in and allowed me to plink a few rounds off at our range.
Sig claims a 60% reduction trigger reset, it's definitely shorter but I don't know that I'd say 60%. That said, the trigger on the E2 is leaps and bounds above the standard P229.
Looking on paper, the dimensions and weight are identical. However being that I carry the P229R almost every day, the E2 felt somewhat lighter, the backstrap fit my hand much better and the E2 felt like the P229 just came back from a 6 month diet with all the unnecessary pork trimmed off.
Overall, I believe Sig took the few mediocre parts of the P229 and improved them all.
YMMV
The Reaper
03-31-2011, 08:37
I like the P229 and it feels really good in my hand, but it is a bit "clunky" and top heavy.
Shoots well, eventually, you have to replace springs.
TR
rocknrolla
03-31-2011, 09:12
Not exactly ideal for CCW in all weather conditions. It's a double stack and fairly wide frame. I live in AZ so I'm speaking from a warm weather point of view.....you live in Florida so I'm guessing shorts and T-shirt most of the year for you too. I've owned many pistols I thought would be great for CCW, and almost all of them ended up being a hassle to carry daily.
This is just my opinion, but any weapon you intend on being a primary CCW should be something that you can throw in a pair of cargo shorts and forget it's there. I personally carry a S&W 360 PD. It's only 5 shots of .357 in a 12 oz frame, but I carry it everywhere. With that, I don't get in many gun fights and am fairly confident that those 5 shots will do the trick if I can't avoid the confrontation (It does require a little range time to feel the power of a .357 in such a light pistol.....but any firearm you carry should be taken to the range as often as possible to stay proficient).
Again, this is just my opinion and I do carry various pistols depending on the weather and clothing I'm wearing.......I just think you may find the 229 (Even the SAS version) a bit bulky for everyday carry.
P.S. If you can afford it, buy one anyway because they really are great pistols.......just don't get the Equinox or other crazy configuration lol.
Mike
Ever considered using a fanny pack to carry concealed? I know they're not very fashionable, but they're extremely functional. In the summer months, i use a CAA covert fanny pack. It carries two spare mags, can be drawn from quickly, and there is little chance of any 'printing' or accidental exposure. Best part is, i don't have to adjust from shorts and a t-shirt to something more bulky and less comfortable just to conceal.
Side note - anyone carrying a fanny pack who still uses his pockets for wallet, keys, phone, etc. should not be messed with! :p
Originally posted by RichL025:
If you're interested in the Sig platform for a full-sie concealed pistol, look at buying a used 225 - it's basically a single-stack (thinner) 228...
Do you mean the 225 - P6? I picked one up about 3 years or so ago because I love Sigs, it was offered to me at a great price, was in fantastic condition and thought that it would make a good concealed weapon. It is about and inch or so shorter than the P226 and obviously more slender since it is a single stack magazine. I carried it for a while and then just went back to the P226. It holds more than twice the rounds and the reprobates that move here to the mountains from the city tend to travel in packs. I guess they are afraid of the woods and the bears, but not afraid break into your house or do a hold-up in the Walmart parking lot.
The 225-P6 is still a great little handgun. Just be real careful buying one on-line. Some of the ones that I saw had barrels where the lands and grooves were almost non-existent, forcing you to immediately buy a replacement barrel. Must have once been issued to a member of the Deutsche Polizei that actually took his marksmanship seriously.
But I am still thinking hard about the 228.
Thomas
blue02hd
03-31-2011, 09:52
Ever considered using a fanny pack to carry concealed?
Fanny packs: "I'm carrying a gun."
WholeManin2010
03-31-2011, 10:02
Fanny packs: "I'm carrying a gun."
Also, "I do not care if I look like a nerd, and hope to never get laid."
I fought with the wife over pretty vs. functional.
I carried a M-11/228 in Iraq. Between training and test firing, it never had an issue. She wanted a carry gun, was sold on a .38 revolver or a .40 auto. We shopped a bit and she got hung up on one of those damn rainbow finished Taurus revolvers. I had to explain the issues with the gun like the cylinder not being timed right. But noooooooo, it's pretty. Thankfully an indoor range not too far away had both on hand.
3 shots....3 total out of the Wizard of Oz shooter and she opens the cylinder, lays it down and says, show me a Sig. :D
I have Glocks, HKs, 1911s, M4geries, shotguns etc that could be used for comfort when I'm gone. It was nice to see that two-tone .40 cal on the nightstand again when I got home.
Bottom line, find an indoor range, shoot an assortment of guns. You won't be sorry with a Sig. You can train, and train hard with them and they are most likely gonna go bang when you want. Maintain it, take care of it and it'll return the favor.
The Reaper
03-31-2011, 10:14
Ever considered using a fanny pack to carry concealed? I know they're not very fashionable, but they're extremely functional. In the summer months, i use a CAA covert fanny pack. It carries two spare mags, can be drawn from quickly, and there is little chance of any 'printing' or accidental exposure. Best part is, i don't have to adjust from shorts and a t-shirt to something more bulky and less comfortable just to conceal.
Side note - anyone carrying a fanny pack who still uses his pockets for wallet, keys, phone, etc. should not be messed with! :p
Aha! The "shoot me first" bag. Most of the cops I know carry off-duty in fanny packs. Big, tactical black ones. Very low profile.:D
Goes well with the "I'm packing!" photojournalist vest.
It is an option. May or may not be the best one.
TR
perdurabo
03-31-2011, 10:25
Fanny packs: "I'm carrying a gun."
+1. Fanny pack isn't "concealed" in my book.
And if you're going to use a fanny pack anyway, get a nice built one from REI or similar, instead of the tactical-looking stuff. A CAA Covert, isn't.
rocknrolla
03-31-2011, 16:34
My defense for the fanny pack:
1. Before using one, i found myself carrying less because it was just too hot to bulk up on clothing.
2. It is my opinion that the average criminal is not nearly as well informed or educated as most members on this board. Thus, many may not recognize a fanny pack for what it is. I do realize that it's not intelligent to underestimate one's opponent. That being said, the practicality of being able to grab this thing on my way out the door every day without having to think too much about it outweighs the negatives, IMO.
3. If a criminal does, in fact, recognize a fanny pack as a method to conceal, would this not act as a deterrent? If i were a criminal and looking at two people to mug or harm, and thought one had a gun, that would be an easy choice for me to make.
I've tried wearing bigger, longer shirts over a hip holster on an everyday basis. It doesn't work well for me. For starters, I like having a couple of extra magazines handy. More importantly, I find myself worrying more about the gun printing or poking through on the bottom than i do paying attention to possible threats around me. For me, being able to concentrate on the task at hand and being able to keep a good eye on those around me is most important. That being said, everyone having bashed the fanny pack idea, what are some good alternatives during the summer months? I'm always open to suggestions and trying something new out.
99meters
03-31-2011, 17:34
Aha! The "shoot me first" bag. Most of the cops I know carry off-duty in fanny packs. Big, tactical black ones. Very low profile.:D
Goes well with the "I'm packing!" photojournalist vest.
It is an option. May or may not be the best one.
TR
A lot of the older guys in my department do the fanny pack thing. These guys also go with the clean shave and the porn-star mustache. You can smell the bacon when they enter a room.
Fanny packs are as low profile as the fisherman (photojournalist) vest, 511 clothing, cargo pants in OD green or Desert tan with hiking boots, ball caps with the U.S. flag on it and a t-shirt that states infadel, and Larue and clock stickers plastered all over your truck.
IMO Sigs have good controls and accuracy.
Fuck, I could hide a damn 629 if I had to...:D
bigdaddy10493
03-31-2011, 22:42
I carry IWB on the small of my back. Is printing really gonna be an issue with the 229?
blue02hd
03-31-2011, 23:45
My defense for the fanny pack: ,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,That being said, everyone having bashed the fanny pack idea, what are some good alternatives during the summer months? I'm always open to suggestions and trying something new out.
Rock, don't read into our responses or take offense. We are simply providing you what our opinions are, and from I am assessing, sharing with you a different point of view. Situation is ALWAYS part of the decision making process. CCW is as selective and unique as the weapon you are going to carry. Your primary threat will most likely determine the manner with which you select your kit. In the travels many of us have taken, Fanny Packs scream CCW just as as loud as the 511 cargo pants with matching velcro ball caps or a cheap suit with "comfortable shoes".
I agree with one statement however, that is is never smart to underestimate the competition. Considering how expensive firearms are these days, your fanny pack may actually make you more of a target. Who is your threat? 15 year old gangbangers? GF's crazy ex-boyfriend?
What do most beach-going peeps, college aged kids, and tourists normally have with them?
(Que Dora the Explorer theme song please,,,,)
Thats right, a Back Pack. So if you have that urge to don the thong, why not take your trusted gadget filled backpack along for the ride?
There is no perfect answer, because if there were, we'd all be using it, to include that career criminal fresh out of prison who is devoting most of his time to perfecting his skills. And I hear they have thongs in prison too,,,,
A lot of the older guys in my department do the fanny pack thing. These guys also go with the clean shave and the porn-star mustache. You can smell the bacon when they enter a room.
Fanny packs are as low profile as the fisherman (photojournalist) vest, 511 clothing, cargo pants in OD green or Desert tan with hiking boots, ball caps with the U.S. flag on it and a t-shirt that states infadel, and Larue and clock stickers plastered all over your truck.
"You can smell the bacon when they enter a room."
I think that's the motif I wanna go for. :D
rocknrolla
04-01-2011, 07:51
blue02hd,
No offense taken.
I own a restaurant. It is seasonal and only open in the summer. It's right on the beach. I do bank runs every night and stock my own atm. Who is my threat? I really don't know. The town is a very affluent one, with essentially zero crime short of a few minor shoplifting incidents each year. For this reason, a lot of residents and business owners in the town have their guard down. To me, this makes the place seem like a ripe target.
My CCW is in the fanny pack only to and from work. During the work day, it's stored in a biometrics safe which is very handy at all times. There are other safeguards and security measures in place that don't need mentioning here. I do everything possible to avoid even getting in a situation where drawing a weapon would be necessary. This is my number one goal. I have lobbied successfully to have a dedicated Police officer on foot patrol in the village at all times during the busiest months. (Previously we had only 'meter maids'). I keep my guard up and keep a close eye on anyone who seems suspicious. This includes anyone not wearing shorts and a t shirt, or a bathing suit. Basically standard tourist gear.
In my experience thus far, no one has looked twice at the fanny pack. Most people in my town seem pretty clueless about it. It has worked well for me thus far. I'm always open to learning new techniques though. That's why I'm here. Sorry to hijack the thread. I carry the 229. I've tried several but really like the ergonomics of the Sig. Was just offering up the fanny pack idea as a possible alternative to downgrading to a smaller or different weapon.
I own a restaurant. It is seasonal and only open in the summer. It's right on the beach. I do bank runs every night and stock my own atm. Who is my threat? I really don't know. The town is a very affluent one, with essentially zero crime short of a few minor shoplifting incidents each year.
Rock brings up an interesting point about fanny-pac's(FP).
Key West, Capital of the Conch Republic, is a live and vibrant Tourista Zone. Probably 1/3 of the Snow Birds deposited by the cruise ships wear a FP. We can have 5 ships in the harbor on any given day, it about doubles the population.
All crime is down in the county, thanks to a good LEO crew,, but we still have an what seems like an unlimited flow of seasonal transient street peoples from up North, plus assorted petty criminals, and a sprinkling of the Russian Mob from the 90t's.
So, on those occasions when I need to be a tour guide to the In-Laws & Out-Laws,, I wear a FP. It is not my go-to outside of my AO. I use several holsters and/or pockets,, depending on conditions..
Junglist
04-01-2011, 08:42
I own/carry a P229, and I personally love it. With just basic maintenance, I've yet to have any problems. What initially sold me on it (after firing it of course) was the ease of the barrel change. I bought it in .40 then picked up a .357Sig barrel later. For those of you that load your own rounds, ammo may not be of much concern. But since I don't , I target shoot with the .40 and carry the .357. I'm 5'10" & 180lbs and wear an in the belt holster on the back of my hip. I generally don't have a problem with concealment, but this may not be the case for everybody. I agree with all of the above that some may have an issue in different weather and with different setups due different body types and the P229 being a little thick. As an all around great weapon, I don't think you'll be disappointed.
I'm not much of a shooter, and don't carry CCW, however one retired LEO/Fed that I know during the cooler months here just keeps his CCW in his front windbreaker or coat pocket (no holster). Never even has to take it out to use it if needed.
I'm not much of a shooter, and don't carry CCW, however one retired LEO/Fed that I know during the cooler months here just keeps his CCW in his front windbreaker or coat pocket (no holster). Never even has to take it out to use it if needed.
What kind of revolver is it?
What kind of revolver is it?
It's a PPK.
It's a PPK.
That means it's likely good for one shot.
Dusty was asking a loaded question there. Revolvers function in pockets, autos won't too well.
The clothing is likely to get pinched in the ejection port and keeps it from going through a normal firing cycle. Best of luck in the case he never has to use it.
That means it's likely good for one shot.
Dusty was asking a loaded question there. Revolvers function in pockets, autos won't too well.
The clothing is likely to get pinched in the ejection port and keeps it from going through a normal firing cycle. Best of luck in the case he never has to use it.
Yes, that does make sense. You will have to forgive me, but like I said I am not much of a shooter (though I'm pretty acurate with a rifle). I wonder though, since the PPK is such a small firearm (especially in comparison to the Sig), and this individual has rather large hands, would there be all that much clothing around the weapon?
I guess having the option to do so is available (shoot from the hip while in the jacket pocket, one shot), but still, why take the chance, right? Might also need to be cleaned more frequently due to the lint?
I wouldn't know if Dusty was asking a loaded question or not, I mean I know the difference between what a revolver and a auto or semi auto look like, but that is about it. Just sharing one of the prefered CCW methods of this individual.
Anyways, thanks in advance for your insight.
The Reaper
04-01-2011, 21:35
Tips from the tactically inept are hardly pearls of wisdom, except as examples of what not to do. :rolleyes:
TR
Tips from the tactically inept are hardly pearls of wisdom, except as examples of what not to do. :rolleyes:
TRYes, sir, I definately fall into the tactically inept category. But still I wonder then, why this individual (retired four years ago as a US Marshal) would elect to carry his CCW in this fashion. Is there a tactical advantage to it (versus holstered or in a fanny pack), or is it just not practical?
Please forgive my limited knowledge in these matters and understand that this is one of the reasons I am here (as a guest/asset) on PS.com.
Yes, sir, I definately fall into the tactically inept category. But still I wonder then, why this individual (retired four years ago as a US Marshal) would elect to carry his CCW in this fashion. Is there a tactical advantage to it (versus holstered or in a fanny pack), or is it just not practical?
Please forgive my limited knowledge in these matters and understand that this is one of the reasons I am here (as a guest/asset) on PS.com.
Don't know what motivates people. IMHO, it's laziness and could be attributed to so much more. Competency isn't something that is just taught and kept locked away. It comes from mastering the basics, and never ever settling for "good enough" or "I'm good enough to do whatever I want".
Being an adult has enough inherent responsibilities, being a gun owner and one that carries, well has much more.
To answer your earlier question, no matter the size of his hands, the coat can and most likely will snag and force the gun to malfunction. What person sets themselves up for failure in a gunfight or where there is a chance of injury or death defeats the purpose of having an incentive to defend yourself.
Your friend may just be over confident in his ability and needs to be retrained in my opinion. But, I don't know him and will reserve judgment.
There are a whole host of issues with the pocketed gun. The myriad of scenarios that come to mind are counter to why you carry in the first place. Now, there is a chance where a pocketed gun comes in handy. That is if the perpetrator has already got you at a disadvantage with a weapon. Even then, how many times have you or this friend trained by firing the same gun from the pocketed position? Not recommended, but still, how many times?
Say your friend is involved in a physical altercation, then what? The gun is tumbled in the pocket, the pocket can't be reached. Is your friend familiar with the art of Monkey Stomp? That gun is useless unless you can get it into the fight.
Untested methods are a recipe for disaster and luck favors the prepared. Too many variables, but there are only a few of many that offer a chance. Odds are gravely stacked in the other person's favor.
Best of luck.
jbour13:
Wow, fantastic assesment, and for not knowing my friend you are probably
pretty accurate in the points you bring up (the laziness, overconfidence...). Thanks again for providing some insight into this.
The Reaper
04-02-2011, 10:47
Yes, sir, I definately fall into the tactically inept category. But still I wonder then, why this individual (retired four years ago as a US Marshal) would elect to carry his CCW in this fashion. Is there a tactical advantage to it (versus holstered or in a fanny pack), or is it just not practical?
Please forgive my limited knowledge in these matters and understand that this is one of the reasons I am here (as a guest/asset) on PS.com.
Length of service is no guarantee of proficiency or expertise. IMHO, the PPK is an outdated and unnecessarily large and heavy pistol for a .380. OTOH, if he is good with it, and well-practiced, and understands the limitations, that may be a good choice for him.
I frequently carry a pistol in my pocket as well, but I have no intention of firing it from there. If you already have a jacket on, a holstered carry is the best way to go.
Putting the pistol into action from a pocket carry is significantly different from either employing a revolver or drawing from a holster, and you have to understand those limitations.
Your SA is the key, as it should permit you to put the weapon into the fight early enough to be a factor. If you can put your hand on the weapon, draw it, and make ready to fire BEFORE your opponent does, your technique was fine. If you are carrying a race gun in a speed rig, and do not have the SA to identify and respond to the threat in a timely manner, you are SOL. It isn't the gun, or carry method, as much as it is the mindset and ability to respond to threats in a timely fashion, that puts you inside your opponent's OODA Loop.
Perfect practice (not just practice) makes perfect. Rehearsal and training are the keys to proficiency. Holstered carry is the fastest carry right after gun in hand. If you are switched on and focused on the threat, you can draw and fire from a holster carry in less than one second. A fanny pack would probably take a couple of seconds, if it doesn't get fumbled. A draw and fire from a pocket carry is likely a three second proposition, assuming practice and no snags. If you ID the threat soon enough to have your weapon out of your pocket and in your hand ready to fire, you have negated the deficiencies of the carry technique. Taken by surprise, well, you have the rest of your life to solve your tactical dilemma.
As stated, if you have to fire an auto pistol from within the pocket, you are going to get one round and one chance, IF you are carrying in Condition One with a round in the chamber. Then to continue the fight, you will have to draw AND reduce a stoppage.
Your LE friend may be aware of these limitations, or he may just be lazy/unproficient. You could always ask him how he plans to use the pistol if he encounters an unexpected threat, and if he has ever practiced drawing and firing, or firing from the pocket, if that is his intent. A PACT timer or a Simunitions enagement might demonstrate the problems with the pocket carry. If he had never practiced, or plans to shoot from inside the pocket, I would stay away from him.
Hope that helps.
TR
Entire post...Hope that helps.
TR
Yes, sir. Thank you for such detailed comment and tactical consideration / instruction. So much for me to learn.
We had Sig's when I was an LEO. We replaced them with Glocks. Why would anyone carry a Sig concealed I don't know. When there is much lighter and slicker guns out there. First shot is going to be the most important. Why use a gun that forces you to fire the first shot on double action.
I just traded by SIG 220 for a Glock 19. I want something I can easily stick in my pants when getting out of the car, checking the mail..etc.
R3V3LATIONS
04-03-2011, 13:29
I agree with KGoerz. IMO, the sigs are to heavy to CCW, IWB or OWB. I never have CCW'd one, and when I do decide to bring a pistol around, its generally my Glock 17, which is getting phased out with a 19 sometime this year for my EDC. But I'd go to the range, with an idea of how you want to carry, and try different firearms from that position/method.
Good luck and Stay Safe
Big Daddy
04-03-2011, 18:55
If I may, I suggest you take a look at the Sig 239. It is a superb weapon available in 9mm,357Sig or 40 S&W, your choice. Think of it as a small 225 or 229. I have ccw'd one for appx. 3 years without sa problem