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Irish
03-15-2011, 08:47
TR asked me to start this thread based on the earthquake and tsunami which struck here in Japan, on 11 March 2011. His question was, "what preparations you had and what you wish you had done?"

These are the preparations that I'd made for where I live. My wife and son are also familiar with this because we do walk throughs of the drill every 6 months. My main focus has always been having things in my pack that will help me to sustain life (for 3 people) for 72 hrs. The plan has always been to return to the house if safe/possible. If the house isn't an option the car is a back up store of sorts if safe/possible. Anything past 3 days and I figure I'd have to start getting creative.

Evacuating my home:
1.) Previously planned 2 ways to exit any room in the house.
2.) Had a designated route to a set evac location on elevated ground.

Gear: (in a NICE 6500 pack centrally located in the house).
1.) Goretex top/bottom (3 sets).
2.) Fleece beanie (3).
3.) Gloves (3 pair).
4.) Sleeping bag (3).
5.) Fleece jacket (3).
6.) Socks (3 pair).
7.) Hiking shoes (3 pair).
8.) MRE (9 field stripped).
9.) First aid kit.
10.) Bic lighter (3 inside water proof bag).
11.) Signal mirror.
12.) Whistle.
13.) Multi tool.
14.) Head lamp (3).
15.) Battery (3 set each lamp).
16.) Chem light (9).
17.) Map.
18.) Silva ranger compass.
19.) 550 cord (Roll).
20.) Water (3 liters).
22.) Chapstick.
23.) Cell phone with charger.
24.) Tel #s written in notepad.
25.) Cash.
26.) Copies of personal docs of 3 people (marriage lic/passports/SSN card/birth cert/bank acct/routing #) in waterproof bag.
27.) Copy of house key/car key.

Stores at home:
1.) 5 gal water jugs (2).
2.) Various canned goods.
3.) AM/FM radio.
4.) Batteries.
5.) Flashlights.
6.) Small propane grill.
7.) Propane tank.
8.) Portable TV.
9.) MRE case (2).

Stores in car:
1.) 5 gal fuel can (1).
2.) MRE case (1).
3.) First aid kit.
4.) E-tool.
5.) Multi tool.
6.) Blankets (3).
7.) Water (3 gal).
8.) Bic lighters (2).
9.) Come along and straps.
10.) Flashlight.
11.) Batteries.
12.) Flares (2).
13.) Fishing rod/reel.
14.) Tackle box.
15.) Duct tape.

Things I wish I had done:
1.) Not really sure about this question. I think I did pretty well based on my main objective which is sustaining life (3 people) for 72 hrs while possibly having to move around. I could cram a lot more things for long term survival into a 6500 cu-in pack, but at the cost of moving quickly. This is my evac bag, so I keep it basic and light. If we get into a situation where after 72 hrs we need to start to hunker down, move to another area, or what have you, then I can source/add water to the load at that point because it's not maxed out yet.

I'm looking forward to the input...
:munchin

Bill Harsey
03-15-2011, 10:58
Outstanding post.
Might throw in a pocket knife too, those blades on the multi tools are not the best for sustained use.

JoeyB
03-15-2011, 11:15
Me and the wife wre talking about our plan (again) after the crap storm that hit Japan.
On your list is one of the things Iv been considering changing. You carry a big ass pack. Is your wife carring her own or are you carring for the 3 of you? Im assuming the munchkin is too young/little.

Right now we (me and wife) each have our BOBS, for 3+ days of supplies, 3 days of food and clothes, the + being the ability to get more food, water, etc...

Im wondering if instead of carring fairly heavy rucks with all that in there, if it wouldnt be better to go to smaller bags with the essentials in them and small duffles with the food/clothes, sleep bags etc.. that way if we have to leave the transportation (truck/bike, canoe, etc...) quickly we would have the small bag close/on our person vs. having to take the time to grab and load up a ruck.

Did you guys have to leave your house? Did it work? anyone else have a say?

Dusty
03-15-2011, 11:15
That's very close to what I have, except for heat tabs, water purification tabs and 3 knives.

I don't have MRE's, though-just rice, beens and canned salsa.

I have 14 gallons of water in the car, as well, as well as 2 containers of deet juice, 50 feet of 500-lb nylon rope, a mosquito net and two tarps.

craigepo
03-15-2011, 11:31
water purification tabs or filter? or both?

Irish
03-15-2011, 12:11
You carry a big ass pack. Is your wife carring her own or are you carring for the 3 of you? Im assuming the munchkin is too young/little.

Did you guys have to leave your house? Did it work? anyone else have a say?
I carry the load for 3 people. Our son is 5 yrs old, so this frees my wife up to grab him. The pack remains packed and ready to go 24/7/365 (unless it's unpacked for maintenance/inspection).

Yeah, we evac'd according to plan, with the pack, as soon as the tsunami/evac warning sounded. And yeah, for all intensive purposes it worked.

Irish
03-15-2011, 12:12
water purification tabs or filter? or both?
Unfortunately, neither. It's something I know I need to get.

Irish
03-15-2011, 12:13
Outstanding post.
Might throw in a pocket knife too, those blades on the multi tools are not the best for sustained use.
But pocket knives are illegal here :rolleyes:

wet dog
03-15-2011, 12:58
My kit includes smaller rucks, but have one of the larger, 4 wheel heavyduty garden type variety red wagon wheel barrels to move another 350lbs over rough terrain. My son is of the age he can pull security up front, I, the dad, does the heavy lifting, and maintain command control from the element center, my youngest will watch the backtrail.

When not needed for movement, the wagon can be used for shetler, or scavenging operations, recovery of caches, etc. Will be building a portable winch system, 3/8" cable, 200' - 1000 lbs. strength, car battery operated, total weight remains under 50#s. In an emergency, I could dump the load, and exfill any member of my family hurt to an aid station with little jaring to the injured person.

I would plan on building a forge if fixed location is established, the ability to move iron, wood/coal fuel would be needed.

The Reaper
03-15-2011, 13:50
Me and the wife wre talking about our plan (again) after the crap storm that hit Japan.
On your list is one of the things Iv been considering changing. You carry a big ass pack. Is your wife carring her own or are you carring for the 3 of you? Im assuming the munchkin is too young/little.

Right now we (me and wife) each have our BOBS, for 3+ days of supplies, 3 days of food and clothes, the + being the ability to get more food, water, etc...

Im wondering if instead of carring fairly heavy rucks with all that in there, if it wouldnt be better to go to smaller bags with the essentials in them and small duffles with the food/clothes, sleep bags etc.. that way if we have to leave the transportation (truck/bike, canoe, etc...) quickly we would have the small bag close/on our person vs. having to take the time to grab and load up a ruck.

Did you guys have to leave your house? Did it work? anyone else have a say?


I would prefer to carry a pack for three people and let my wife carry the child on a front or back pack than to have two packs and try to drag a small child on a multi-mile cross country movement. I doubt that most kids under six or eight could keep up. OTOH, if they are eight to ten or older, might not be a bad idea to let them carry a small pack with part of the load.

Depending on what you are fleeing, and where, if you have to move, and cannot drive a vehicle, as options, a bike, wheelbarrow, kid's wagon, or garden cart is a good way to move extra gear or exhausted kids.

Excellent plan and rehearsal. Well done!

Sounds like your BOB is set up fairly well for three days or so.

As far as the list goes, I would consider adding some more shelter gear to the ruck (tent and bags, or at least a couple of ponchos, heavy duty survival blankets, and one sleeping bag), plenty of extra socks, tinder, a whistle and mirror per person, more water storage (bladders), toilet paper, a trowel or e-tool, contractor trash bags, Zip-Locs, a square or two of heavy duty aluminum foil, at least a seven day supply of any needed meds, a blow-out trauma kit as well as the usual camping type 1st aid kit, spare glasses, if necessary, small hygiene kits (airline sized is good), hats, some duct tape, a machete/camp axe/big knife, a towel, some wipes, pocket chainsaw, solar charger and rechargable batteries, pocket sized radio with shortwave, a few microlights (at least one red one, for low-signature/night vision preservation, water purification (pump, MIOX, or tabs), some trail mix or high carb snacks, individual servings of Crystal Light or other water flavoring, tea or coffee, salt and pepper, maybe a GPS, a thumbdrive with scanned copies of documents, address book, mail settings, etc., a roll or two of pre-64 dimes (or appropriate silver for your country), a 10'-12' piece of tubular nylon webbing, a small tube of Shoe Goo, some OC spray, bug juice, camping pots and flatware (or a couple of canteen cups and a metal spork or two), an Esbit or camping stove, a few chemlites, very small fishing kit and snares, one pocket survival kit per person, and a camera, if your phone does not have one, etc. Apparently, a bottle of potassium iodide might be handy to have along as well. Most of this stuff is small and would not add much bulk or weight to your kit.

The home kit might benefit from a tub liner water bladder, if you have a standard sized US type tub, solar charger, some dried rice and beans, oatmeal, etc., some tools, especially demolition tools (like prybars, saws, wrecking bars, chainsaw, Hi Lift jack, comealong, an axe, sledge, rope, a pulley set), a lantern with batteries or fuel and mantles/wicks, a larger water filter (Big Berkey or other ceramic filter), cash, coins, basically more of everything from the BOB except for shelter.

The car kit needs a tool kit, tire repair kit, several cans of Fix a Flat, a really good jack, recovery kit (add an axe, bow saw, etc.), spare belts and hoses, collapsible water jug, water, Esbit, Sterno, or small camp stove, blankets, fuel injector cleaner (emergency fuel, too), jumper cables, hygiene kit, snacks, cash, etc.

I like to rotate older gear being replaced into the other kits.

Not being critical, just a list of additional items to consider. You know your needs better than I do.

Overall, I think you have one of the better kits I have seen. I hope it served you well.

TR

Bill Harsey
03-15-2011, 13:55
Irish,
guess that rules out the swords.

TR,
For carry weight nothing can beat a bow saw.
Keep a couple fresh blades taped to the frame.

Pete
03-15-2011, 14:06
U.S. Drug Stores Report Sudden Increase in Potassium Iodide Sales

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/15/drug-stores-report-sudden-increase-potassium-iodide-sales/#

"..One drug supplier says it has sold 250,000 anti-radiation pills to people in the U.S. concerned about possible exposure from Japanese nuclear reactors.

Troy Jones, president of Nukepills.com, said his company sold out over the weekend of potassium iodide pills, which prevent against radiation poisoning of the thyroid gland. Jones, in an interview with FoxNews.com, said that the pills were sold to dozens of U.S. pharmacies, corporations, hospitals and nuclear labs.................."

Better to have it and not need it than to need it and nor have it. Looks to be a little late to be stocking up on potassium iodide pills.

And in case you wonder about water purification (iodine) tabs - thats Tetraglycine Hydroperiodide.

Edited to add to TR's thoughts on bikes. Reguardless of the situation bikes for the family makes sense. In a "stay" situation bikes don't require gas and allow fairly quick movement within the neighborhood. In a "go" situation they can be mounted on their rack on the back of the vehicle - just in case. Make it to where you're going and they are available for use there.

Paslode
03-15-2011, 14:34
U.S. Drug Stores Report Sudden Increase in Potassium Iodide Sales

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/15/drug-stores-report-sudden-increase-potassium-iodide-sales/#

"..One drug supplier says it has sold 250,000 anti-radiation pills to people in the U.S. concerned about possible exposure from Japanese nuclear reactors.

Troy Jones, president of Nukepills.com, said his company sold out over the weekend of potassium iodide pills, which prevent against radiation poisoning of the thyroid gland. Jones, in an interview with FoxNews.com, said that the pills were sold to dozens of U.S. pharmacies, corporations, hospitals and nuclear labs.................."

Better to have it and not need it than to need it and nor have it. Looks to be a little late to be stocking up on potassium iodide pills.

And in case you wonder about water purification (iodine) tabs - thats Tetraglycine Hydroperiodide.

Edited to add to TR's thoughts on bikes. Reguardless of the situation bikes for the family makes sense. In a "stay" situation bikes don't require gas and allow fairly quick movement within the neighborhood. In a "go" situation they can be mounted on their rack on the back of the vehicle - just in case. Make it to where you're going and they are available for use there.

You ought to see the prices on Ebay for the KI3 and KIO3 tabs......can you say rape. I checked yesterday and there were maybe 5 sellers most of whom were selling a $20 bottle for $300 to$1000. Those sellers are gone, but there are 5x that many new sellers today.

The Reaper
03-15-2011, 14:45
I guess the buyers missed the article on using betadine on the skin to achieve the same effect.:D

TR

Pete
03-15-2011, 15:04
I guess the buyers missed the article on using betadine on the skin to achieve the same effect.:D

TR

That story is all over the PI. News sources are showing officials saying "It don't work".

akv
03-15-2011, 15:26
Not great news, though a decent gesture by the NukePills company.


Official: Japan's nuclear situation nearing severity of Chernobyl

(CNN) -- The explosion Tuesday at Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant has elevated the situation there to a "serious accident" on a level just below Chernobyl, a French nuclear official said, referring to an international scale that rates the severity of such incidents.

The International Nuclear and Radiological Event Scale -- or INES -- goes from Level 1, which indicates very little danger to the general population, to Level 7, a "major accident" in which there's been a large release of radioactive material and there will be widespread health and environmental effects.

"It's clear we are at Level 6, that's to say we're at a level in between what happened at Three Mile Island and Chernobyl," Andre-Claude Lacoste, president of France's nuclear safety authority, told reporters Tuesday.

Japanese nuclear authorities initially rated the incident at Level 4, according to Greg Webb of the International Atomic Energy Agency. Level 4 is characterized as a minor release of radioactive material that necessitates only measures to control food due to contamination. But in the latest information about the explosion, Japanese authorities did not give it a rating, Webb said, and the IAEA is not putting a number on it either.

Whatever the level, many experts warn that it's too early, and there's too little information, to determine what it means for the people who live in the region near the Daiichi plant.

"We don't know enough to assess the long-term or short-term effects of this," said Dr. Kirby Kemper, a noted nuclear physicist, physics professor and vice president of research at Florida State University.

Based on information from Japanese authorities, Kemper said it appears the radioactive material that has been released has mostly dissipated into the atmosphere. However, he said, authorities would have to test the soil for contamination in the 20-kilometer radius that was evacuated around the plant before anyone could return home.

Trying to place the situation on the INES scale is premature, said David Brenner, director of the Center for Radiological Research at Columbia University.

"I've been asked to put a number on it a few times and I've resisted," he said.

With the effort to get the reactors under control still under way and uncertainty over where winds will blow radioactive waste, there's no way of telling how much waste will be released or what impact it will have on human health, he said.

As things stood Tuesday, Brenner said he did not believe the releases that had been reported so far posed a significant public health threat. He said the situation will clarify within 48 hours, for better or for worse, at which point, he said, it would make sense to assess the incident's overall severity.

At least 30 people died following the 1986 explosion and fire at Chernobyl, and large swaths of Ukraine, Belarus and Russia were contaminated from the nuclear fallout. The core meltdown at the Three Mile Island nuclear power plant near Middletown, Pennsylvania, in 1979 caused no injuries or deaths, and only very low levels of radiation were found later in plants and animals, experts said.

The latest incidents in Japan -- an explosion Tuesday at the plant's No. 2 reactor and a fire in a cooling pond used for nuclear fuel at the No. 4 reactor -- briefly pushed radiation levels at the plant to about 167 times the average annual dose of radiation, according to details released by the IAEA.

That dose would quickly dissipate with distance from the plant, and radiation levels quickly fell back to levels that posed no immediate public health threat, said Japan's chief Cabinet secretary, Yukio Edano.

But the deteriorating situation at the plant and concerns about a potential shift in winds that could loft radiation toward populated areas nevertheless prompted authorities to warn people as far as 30 kilometers (18.6 miles) away from the plant to stay inside.

"There is still a very high risk of further radioactive material coming out," Prime Minister Naoto Kan said, asking people to remain calm.

According to the information about the radioactive matter released Tuesday from Japanese authorities, Kemper said, "as long as you're sealing your house well enough you're not going to ingest it."

Another problem with trying to predict contamination is that the levels don't necessarily go down the farther you get from the source, according to David Lochbaum, director of the Nuclear Safety Project for the Union of Concerned Scientists.

"The contamination levels aren't linear, so the farther away you get doesn't necessarily mean you get a lower dose rate. Chernobyl, in some cases, had areas 100 miles away from the facility having significantly higher radiation levels than areas only 10 or 15 miles away," he explained Tuesday in a teleconference with reporters.

"The winds would carry the radioactivity and then the rainfall would bring it down to the ground to contaminate where people were, he said. "So there are a number of factors that determine where it goes and who's in harm's way."

About 200,000 people within a 20-kilometer (12.4 mile) radius of the Daiichi plant had been previously evacuated.

But Japanese authorities couldn't rule out the specter of greater radiation dangers down the road.

For the first time since the quake crippled cooling systems at the Daiichi reactors on Friday and blasts occurred at two reactors Saturday and Monday, Edano said radiation levels at the plant had increased to "levels that can impact human health."

He said Tuesday he could not rule out the possibility of a meltdown at the troubled reactors.

While seawater was being pumped into the reactors in an effort to prevent further damage, "it cannot necessarily be called a stable situation," he said.

The plant's owners have taken precautions to protect the people in Fukushima Prefecture, where the reactors sit. The plants are 138 miles (about 225 kilometers) from Tokyo.

They evacuated all but about 50 workers from the facility and urged people within 30 kilometers of the plant to remain indoors. The government imposed a no-fly zone over the 30-kilometer radius "because of detected radiation after explosions" there, the country's transportation ministry said.

A North Carolina-based company, Nukepills.com, has donated about 50,000 potassium iodide tablets to a hospital in Tokyo. Potassium iodide "is recommended by health officials worldwide to prevent thyroid cancer of those exposed to radioactive iodine in the event of a nuclear reactor accident or detonation of a nuclear bomb," said a statement from the company, which describes itself as a internet-based provider of radiation emergency preparedness products.

"We are very pleased that these tablets will be given to people directly affected by the nuclear crisis," said Troy Jones, president of Nukepills.com.

CNN's Michael Pearson and Richard Greene contributed to this report




http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/15/japan.nuclear/?hpt=T2

The Reaper
03-15-2011, 15:38
That story is all over the PI. News sources are showing officials saying "It don't work".


Maybe. It beats taking nothing, and should not hurt anyone who does not have an iodine allergy.

TR

https://marketcuriosity.wordpress.com/2011/03/12/plan-b-for-anyone-caught-without-ki-or-kio3-tablets-in-a-nuclear-emergency/

According to research by Health Physicist Ken Miller, Hershey Medical Center, using 24 healthy adult male subjects, an adult could get a blocking dose of stable iodine by painting 8 ml of a 2 percent tincture of Iodine on the abdomen or forearm approximately 2 hours prior to I-131 contamination. The abstract of his study titled “Effectiveness of Skin Absorption of Tincture of I in Blocking Radioiodine from the Human Thyroid Gland” from Health Physics, June 1989, Vol. 56, No. 6, pages 911-914, states:

“Although there were large variations within each subject group in regard to serum-I levels and thyroid uptakes, the increase in serum-I concentration after topical-I application was effective in reducing the thyroid uptake of I131. The authors conclude that in the absence of KI, most humans would benefit from topical application of tincture of-I, and that in some the effectiveness would equal that of oral KI.”

greenberetTFS
03-15-2011, 16:00
[QUOTE=The Reaper;381544]Maybe. It beats taking nothing, and should not hurt anyone who does not have an iodine allergy.

TR

Agree with TR 100%,nothing to lose when fighting for your life whatever the odds maybe...........:(

Big Teddy :munchin

Hand
03-15-2011, 22:03
Sirs,
I understand that putting together a kit for purposes of short term survival or sustainment enroute to a better situation in general is the focus of this thread. In this vein, would some sort of two way radio be prudent to inuclude?

Snaquebite
03-15-2011, 22:08
Some great info here and I always love these type posts. I may have overlooked it but waterless anti-bacterial soap seems to always be forgotten.

wet dog
03-15-2011, 22:14
Sirs,
I understand that putting together a kit for purposes of short term survival or sustainment enroute to a better situation in general is the focus of this thread. In this vein, would some sort of two way radio be prudent to inuclude?

Sure, why not have a few, big fan on internal commo plans. But consider, are you ever away from your immediate family longer than the time to adjust gear and/or source materials?

Stay together, live together, die together. Teach bona fides to wife and kids, learn to communicated cryptically with family members / friends at other locations, limit transmission times, conserve batteries, etc.

The Reaper
03-16-2011, 07:12
Sirs,
I understand that putting together a kit for purposes of short term survival or sustainment enroute to a better situation in general is the focus of this thread. In this vein, would some sort of two way radio be prudent to inuclude?

Who do you plan to talk to?

TR

Hand
03-16-2011, 07:39
Who do you plan to talk to?

TR

Thats a great question sir. My curiosity leaned toward what could happen if in a situation like Japan, where massive numbers of people were displaced on a regional level. If someone were to be as prepared as you gentlemen like to be, would a radio be helpful in assisting with maybe hurrying relief efforts to devastated areas in situations where telephone lines were gone and the cellular networks were overloaded and useless? And your question echoes my own, who WOULD you talk to? Are there groups of people who still talk to each other on short wave radios? Would having such a radio be beneficial to get news, communicate locations, communicate information from/to devastated areas?
I wonder how aware the displaced people in Japan are of the possible dangers they are or could be exposed to from the power plant situations and if being able to get that type of news would affect their decisions to stay where they are or try to migrate to a different location.
I consider these things because surely there are people who have no means of transportation and are stranded miles from any help at this point...

My prayers are with the people in Japan right now.

Irish
03-16-2011, 07:45
Who do you plan to talk to?

TR
My thoughts exactly. If you believe it could benefit you then by all means pack it. But looking back on things I can't say that any sort of radio/comm gear would've benefited my situation. Besides, immediate priority should be watching your 6 and that of those with you IMHO. I prioritized my family's survival as such...

1.) Get out and get to safe ground.
2.) Be prepared to combat elements and sustain nutrition for 72 hrs.
3.) Have ability to signal first responders/rescue teams.

Comm/radio just didn't factor into those 3 things for me. You may have better luck with a payphone/mobile phone. In my case, here in Japan, NTT opened the disaster lines, meaning you could call out for free on any public phone. I think the limit was 60 mins per call. Pretty generous amount of time for a cryptic message. Also, cell phones were down out here for about 24 hrs. A cell phone (if operating) will allow you to get a cryptic message out whether you talk to a person/leave a voicemail/shoot an e-mail/post to a social site. Soon as my mobile was up and running I shot an e-mail from it to my mom stateside. Then I posted a cryptic message on a social network... seems they do come in handy;)

I rationalize it like this... when you're in a disaster, you know how you're doing. It may sound bad but let everyone else worry about you. You worry about the task at hand. Get through the golden hour and then reach out when it's convenient for YOU. That may inconvenience the thoughts and feelings of loved ones not effected by what you're experiencing, but your reassuring them simply isn't a priority to immediate survival. Fight or flight. My humble .02

Irish
03-16-2011, 08:07
If someone were to be as prepared as you gentlemen like to be, would a radio be helpful in assisting with maybe hurrying relief efforts to devastated areas in situations where telephone lines were gone and the cellular networks were overloaded and useless?
Who are you gonna hurry? A lot of the first responders were wiped out in the same disaster. You're a needle in a haystack. Focus on keeping yourself and those with you alive.
I wonder how aware the displaced people in Japan are of the possible dangers they are or could be exposed to from the power plant situations and if being able to get that type of news would affect their decisions to stay where they are or try to migrate to a different location.
There're a lot of "ifs" that you could come up with from the outside looking in. But when you're stuck in the middle of it I think you should focus on your immediate surroundings and the things that you have power over.
I consider these things because surely there are people who have no means of transportation and are stranded miles from any help at this point...
I can assure you from a first person point of view, transportation and being "stranded" is the least of your worries mate. You should be thinking about how you're going to make it from here on out, as if no one is going to help you, but hopeful help will arrive.

I'm not a QP but these are my thoughts and this is how I survive. Luckily I didn't have to push the envelope and things for me were back to normal fairly quick. Well... not exactly normal... but we were able to return home after 24 hrs and my utilities are pretty much on without a catch. I consider myself and my family fortunate. I wouldn't wish what the folks up north are going through on my worst enemy. And if I was in the same boat as folks up north I would be sticking to my game plan.

Hand
03-16-2011, 09:11
Thank you gentlemen, for your informed and thorough replies.

I was on the Gulf Coast during Katrina, the situation was quite different there. Fuel and generators were gold.

Glad to hear you are safe Irish.

Golf1echo
03-16-2011, 20:53
That is a good list. A waterproof pen and paper could be helpful.

Two things for consideration after Hurricanes or similar disasters are the lack of gasoline, even beyond the scope of the disaster and the ability to navigate without any standing signage.

The Reaper
03-16-2011, 21:23
That is a good list. A waterproof pen and paper could be helpful.

Two things for consideration after Hurricanes or similar disasters are the lack of gasoline, even beyond the scope of the disaster and the ability to navigate without any standing signage.

Roger that.

And gasoline is not safely storable at home in the long term.

Most people do not realize that gasoline starts to break down really quickly, even faster in the heat. After 90 days or less in storage, it begins to decompose and I would prefer not to run it in a fuel injected or high compression engine after that.

You can treat it with a preservative like Sta-Bil, but even that will not keep it viable for most engines for more than six months to a year. You have to rotate your stocks regularly, and most people are not going to do that.

Diesel or better yet, LP fueled generators are the way to go, IMHO.

If you are not planning to bug out by vehicle, a siphon hose will allow you to recover whatever is in your vehicles' tanks and run your genset for quite a while, and a vehicle fuel tank is probably the safest place to store gasoline.

A smaller generator will run longer on the same amount of fuel. OTOH, you have to calculate what you intend to provide power to and allow for start up loads. Lights, fans, radios, laptops, etc. draw little power, appliances quite a bit more, and the HVAC will be the Big Mac Daddy. A little Honda generator will power the small stuff, and you can run extension cords to where you need the devices. I would look at something more than 5,000 watts to power all of that as well as a fridge, freezer, sump pump, well pump, etc. pushing that up to 8,000 watts or more. If you stagger the start ups, you could probably run a window AC on that as well. When you get to that point, you probably need to get an electrician and set up a power transfer switch and a subpanel. You do not want to energize your home service panel without turning off the main breakers to grid power. A 3 ton AC unit is going to take 12,000 to 14,000 watts to start.

I would not plan on running the genset 24/7, even if you have the fuel. A few hours a couple of times per day should keep the fridge and the freezer cool, unless you open and close them a lot between generator runs. If I anticipated losing power for more than a few days, as in after an earthquake, really bad storm or hurricane, I would probably stock up on some oil, a filter or two, and a set of spare maintenance parts.

Some people want to be able to run everything and pretend nothing has happened. I suspect that in a protracted emergency, like Katrina or Andrew, they will soon be out of power as well.

The really trick set-up is to get a few deep-cycle batteries and an inverter, and use them to power the small stuff between generator charges. A large solar panel or two could keep the batteries topped off and allow you to go longer between generator runs as well.

Remember that the power company brings electricity to your home for a few cents per kilowatt hour (KWH). You cannot make electric power from an internal combustion engine for much less than 30-50 cents per hour just for fuel. The generator itself will be a large upfront investment, and it could be a very significant one, because you will not likely find any deals on one (or the fuel) after a disaster occurs. You will probably get to know your neighbors better though, after they notice you have lights, the smell of coffee brewing, and the sound of an engine running.

Just my .02, YMMV. Hope it helps.

TR

MtnGoat
03-16-2011, 22:04
Great Tread.. I like the spin off from Be Prepared.

Second story house. Get those "throw" out ladders you seen in those Sky Mall magazines. Just make sure the lenght is correct for your hieght. My Lesson Learned.

In your home - I like a fire extinguisher in the kitchen, master bedroom and each full bathroom. Teach your kids how to use them if they are latch key kids too.

With hurricane season coming here soon. This gets me thinking those lines again.

Nice Tread!! Thanks all.

Irish
03-16-2011, 22:07
Roger that~Hope it helps.

TR

We interrupt your normally scheduled broadcast with an important message.... TR you never cease to amaze me. You're one knowledgeable dude. Thank you. We now return to your normally scheduled program.

The Reaper
03-17-2011, 07:25
In your home - I like a fire extinguisher in the kitchen, master bedroom and each full bathroom. Teach your kids how to use them if they are latch key kids too.

Not sure about the fire hazard in the bathrooms, but I keep them in the kitchen, reloading area, and the garage.:D

TR

MtnGoat
03-17-2011, 19:14
Not sure about the fire hazard in the bathrooms, but I keep them in the kitchen, reloading area, and the garage.:D

TR

Haha.. Dou Soo Funny :D

I put them there becuase that seems IMHM (Mind) the one place that everyone in my house goes everyday. :D Everyones RP.

kgoerz
03-18-2011, 16:51
Here in the Hurricane zone and living in an Apartment. I keep three weeks. Which could be stretched to 30 if needed. Society is only 6 meals from total lawlessness.
Plenty of Ammo and Med Supplies. I make a point of trying to hide it as best possible. Five cases of beer and several bottles of wine are also stocked. Not a lot of people think of that. Nothing like a cold or warm beer with your Raman Noodles.

incarcerated
03-19-2011, 00:45
Not sure about the fire hazard in the bathrooms....

Only after my brother’s chili, or a Hot Wings Challenge. It’s primarily a fume problem. Although not entirely.

:D

mugwump
03-21-2011, 16:54
Who do you plan to talk to?

TR

A few years ago I asked about comms in a bugout scenario and Peregrino gave some advice that I took to heart: In an evacuation scenario, staying together is paramount so local comms is not a priority but situational awareness is incredibly important. Knowing if a bridge is out or if there is a security problem in a particular locale could be the difference between life and death. He recommended getting a scanner and I took his advice.

I got a Uniden BCD396XT digital trunk-tracking handheld that runs on two alkaline or rechargeable AA batteries. It will pick up anything that isn't encrypted, including APCO 25, Motorola, EDACS, and LTR trunked systems. It has a "close by" function that automatically discriminates for nearby signals and it picks up shortwave, ham, family band, local TV, AM/FM, basically everything. It's light, compact, easy on batteries, is incredibly sensitive once you replace the included rubber ducky, and incredibly flexible (read complicated).

If you pick up FreeScan software (free) plus a subscription to the Radio Reference database (cheap) it's ridiculously easy to download all the trunked frequencies in your area from your computer via serial cable, all annotated so you can see exactly what agency is saying what on your scanner display. You can group frequencies into sets and activate and deactivate them at will through the scanner front panel. You could have a set for your county and all of the contiguous ones and activate the sets as needed.

You'd be amazed what you can pick up from the local hospital custodians and public works maintenance crews. In a disaster scenario, knowing what the local, county and state cops are saying along with the utility, safety and public works crews would be invaluable. Having access to all the AM/FM and television news isn't bad either.

It ain't cheap -- around $450 -- but given the finances of county and local municipalities I don't think many will be upgrading to encrypted trunking systems so the investment seems pretty secure. Plan to spend some time learning the ins-and-outs but it's all pretty interesting so it's not really a chore.

The Reaper
03-22-2011, 11:23
A few years ago I asked about comms in a bugout scenario and Peregrino gave some advice that I took to heart: In an evacuation scenario, staying together is paramount so local comms is not a priority but situational awareness is incredibly important. Knowing if a bridge is out or if there is a security problem in a particular locale could be the difference between life and death. He recommended getting a scanner and I took his advice.

I got a Uniden BCD396XT digital trunk-tracking handheld that runs on two alkaline or rechargeable AA batteries. It will pick up anything that isn't encrypted, including APCO 25, Motorola, EDACS, and LTR trunked systems. It has a "close by" function that automatically discriminates for nearby signals and it picks up shortwave, ham, family band, local TV, AM/FM, basically everything. It's light, compact, easy on batteries, is incredibly sensitive once you replace the included rubber ducky, and incredibly flexible (read complicated).

If you pick up FreeScan software (free) plus a subscription to the Radio Reference database (cheap) it's ridiculously easy to download all the trunked frequencies in your area from your computer via serial cable, all annotated so you can see exactly what agency is saying what on your scanner display. You can group frequencies into sets and activate and deactivate them at will through the scanner front panel. You could have a set for your county and all of the contiguous ones and activate the sets as needed.

You'd be amazed what you can pick up from the local hospital custodians and public works maintenance crews. In a disaster scenario, knowing what the local, county and state cops are saying along with the utility, safety and public works crews would be invaluable. Having access to all the AM/FM and television news isn't bad either.

It ain't cheap -- around $450 -- but given the finances of county and local municipalities I don't think many will be upgrading to encrypted trunking systems so the investment seems pretty secure. Plan to spend some time learning the ins-and-outs but it's all pretty interesting so it's not really a chore.


Sounds like a very nice piece of kit, just wish it was a little cheaper.

C'est la vie!

TR

JoeyB
03-22-2011, 13:21
I wish it was alot cheaper :)

LarryW
03-22-2011, 14:55
FWIW, in consideration for having sufficient stores on hand for emergencies, note that the Commissary (and I would suspect some supermarkets/discount grocerers) have case-lots available for order. In some situations one can get case-lots online, depending on the brand.

I do not garden (grow my own veggies), neither do I can my own food. (Not smart enough.) Have recently developed sufficient dry stores inventory for 6-mos via case-lot from the local Commissary. Just copy down the UPC code number and submit it with your order. Least, it was that easy at the one I shop.

Just FWIW...

Pete
04-17-2011, 11:45
A few thoughts on the Fayetteville / Ft Bragg tornado that came through town yesterday afternoon. It tore up a good chunk of Northern Fayetteville along the southern edge of Ft Bragg from the Lagrange area by the Reilly Road gate, through Summerhill and Cottonade, over to Bonnie Doone, Eurika Springs and out at Ramsey Street by the Andrews Road intersection.

http://fayobserver.com/articles/2011/04/16/1087211?sac=Home

Click the map for a larger image.

Our Time Warner service went out immediately which took out Phone, Cable TV and internet service. We were well away from the track and didn't need to go anywhere.

Had an old TV with the digital converter and antenna. The wife hooked it up and got channel 11. I was listening to the radio. Both sources were covering the major news - not focused on what someone driving around could really use. I had been out to Ramsey street and it was backed up down past Country Club drive.

I turned on the police scanner and that's where I started to get the full picture. Ramsey St north was closed at Andrews Road, everyone was being forced to turn south. The problem was people thinking they were bypassing the obstruction by cutting up McArthur Rd and cutting over to Ramsey on Stacey Weaver - where they were forced to turn south, so they took McArthur up to Eurika Springs and cut over to Ramsey where again they were forced to turn south. People were becoming real frustrated and some were driving around the police road blocks - going the wrong way, etc.

For the people just driving around in the hours after the tornado they were not getting enough info over the car radio to bypass the choke points and find open routes.

If you know your city a must have for disaster prep is a top of the line scanner.

I was scanning all the police and fire so only got fragments of each story/incident but that gave me a better overall picture and allowed me to mentally plug the hit area onto a map.

Air.177
04-17-2011, 12:47
I was in grey group and watched the tornado cross reilly rd, we hid out in a closet till it had passed. Myy truck took some debris through the back window along with a few other vehicles in the area, and the shopping center took a slight beating, but nothing like the houses all around. Its pretty bad in places.

The Reaper
04-17-2011, 12:50
IIRC, Fayetteville is the largest city in NC without its own TV station, and it showed yesterday.

TW Channel 14 was stuck on where the storm had moved to in Eastern NC, Raleigh and Durham stations were busy covering Wake and Lee county damage, almost no coverage of Fayetteville till well after dark.

Bragg is closed (along with Reilly and Yadkin Gates), and will decide on tomorrow's opening later today.

Good to have PACE for comms and info, cable, broadcast TV, AM/FM radio, and scanner coverage of government channels, with cell phone backup sounds like a good plan to me. I don't think driving around looking to be a part of the news is one of my alternatives.


I was in grey group and watched the tornado cross reilly rd, we hid out in a closet till it had passed. Myy truck took some debris through the back window along with a few other vehicles in the area, and the shopping center took a slight beating, but nothing like the houses all around. Its pretty bad in places.

Was that after you left my house? :D

TR

jbour13
04-17-2011, 17:01
Seems like Bragg was a bit unprepared for this. My 1SG and Commander haven't made a decision yet. Bragg homepage didn't have an update, although their facebook page did.

Stated 2 hour delay, but no formations to be held before 1300. Kinda screws with BAR tomorrow, but I think post has more pressing issues to attend. Those with kids have to rely on their individual schools it seems to get an accurate statement on when your youngin's are to attend their classes. Should be an interesting drive through the All American Gate for the first time in a while with an abundance of routed traffic from Yadkin and Riley gates.

Best of luck to you all at getting some work done tomorrow.

Air.177
04-17-2011, 20:43
Was that after you left my house? :D

TR
Yes sir. That was me, stayin out of trouble. ;-)

Boomer-61
04-28-2011, 13:12
mugwump

"is incredibly sensitive once you replace the included rubber ducky, and incredibly flexible"

Which antenna would you recommend?
Great post, thank you.

The Reaper
04-28-2011, 13:37
Anyone see why having a few blue tarps, some wooden laths or studs, and a hammer type stapler tucked away could come in handy?

Just having a chainsaw with fuel, an axe, and a comealong could make the diffence between being able to get out of your drive to buy essentials and having to beg someone else to help when they can get around to it.

Of course, the more essentials you have on hand, the longer before you have to go out.

Looking at upgrading my generator, possibly adding another LP tank (or a larger one), and thinking of having a well drilled on the property.

Anyone here directly affected by recent storms?

TR

mugwump
04-28-2011, 13:37
mugwump

"is incredibly sensitive once you replace the included rubber ducky, and incredibly flexible"

Which antenna would you recommend?
Great post, thank you.

I know nothing about antennas--I took the advice of some folk on a scanner forum (http://forums.radioreference.com/antennas-coax-forum/14783-diamond-rh77ca-honest-opinions.html): Diamond RH77CA. Note that this antenna uses a bayonet coax connector and the Uniden has a male threaded Motorola (?) connector so an adapter is needed. I'm pretty clueless about this stuff so make sure you get solid advice about the right adapter (impedence, etc.). I'm guessing that the link should help you out.

mugwump
04-28-2011, 13:52
Regarding the sticker shock on the Uniden scanner. The Radio Shack Pro-106 digital trunk tracking scanner is roughly equivalent to the Uniden and can be purchased during periodic sales for $299. Still not cheap, but a bit better. An impartial review is here (http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Pro-106). Note the eBay auctions at the bottom. An older Pro-106 may actually be preferable to a new one which locks out the national 700MHz tactical frequencies.

ETA: I checked my Uniden and it trunks the 380 to 400 range used by the U.S. military (unencrypted only of course) as well as the 799 range tactical frequency. YMMV with newer units. Uniden review here (http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/BCD396T_Review).

Pete
04-28-2011, 15:04
..... The Radio Shack Pro-106 digital trunk tracking scanner is roughly equivalent to the Uniden and can be purchased during periodic sales for $299. Still not cheap, but a bit better........

Mine's a Radio Shack Pro 2050 and it works great.

mugwump
04-28-2011, 15:13
...Good to have PACE for comms and info, cable, broadcast TV, AM/FM radio, and scanner coverage of government channels, with cell phone backup sounds like a good plan to me. I don't think driving around looking to be a part of the news is one of my alternatives...

TR

Here are the unencrypted trunked systems in your area (at the site, mouse over the column heading to see the 'Mode' descriptions):

Bragg and Pope (http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=3005)

Cumberland County (http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?inputs=2&ctid=1912)

Years ago, I started to put together a primer on scanners for your Be Prepared thread but found so many good resources on the Interwebs that it seemed redundant. As part of that exercise I pulled the Cumberland County freqs into the free ARC396 programming software (see screenshot) as an example. Sucking all of the frequencies for your area off of the Radioreference site takes about 30 seconds. You have to give a bit of thought how you wish to organize the different agencies into groups (or you could just let the scanner go through all of them) but after that it's a drag-and-drop exercise to create your groups. By default, the software creates groups which match the section headings in the Radioreference.com database. Actually programming the scanner takes about 5 minutes and is unattended.

18613
.

mugwump
04-28-2011, 15:33
Mine's a Radio Shack Pro 2050 and it works great.

Good point. Older, and much cheaper, scanners may be perfectly adequate in your area depending upon the comms used by the local agencies. The 2050 cannot access digital trunked systems or public safety channels 440-559. Older scanners face the rebanding (http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Rebanding) frequency conversion that occurred in the recent past. I'm guessing radioreference.com discusses somewhere how to assess the systems used in your area with an eye to getting the cheapest solution possible.

Boomer-61
04-29-2011, 07:06
Mugwump,
Thanks again for the info. it is above and beyond. As the tornados were ripping through Georgia the other night and I was making ready and I realized how unprepared I was. I have all the basics but what I fell embarrassingly short on was maintenence and organization. It is not good enough to own these items, they need to be where you can get to them in an orderly manner and in good working order. My 15 y/o weather radio totally crapped out on me, some of my gear was still scattered around the basement after a weekend outing and my weapons systems were not good to go. It made me think about the possible need for redundant systems/kit and the need to do system checks regularily. I'm sorry to say that it took a close call to jolt me out of my false sense of preparedness. Lesson learned. How would you guys say that in PS terms?

Pete
04-29-2011, 08:53
..... I'm sorry to say that it took a close call to jolt me out of my false sense of preparedness. Lesson learned. How would you guys say that in PS terms?

You can recover from anything that is not fatal. If you learned anything and then apply what you learned you are all the better for it.

If you fail to correct what you leaned and you get hit, well...........................

45K40
05-05-2011, 13:55
A recommendation for AA batteries would be to stock only lithium types. Lithium batts have a typical shelflife of 10 or more yrs and are slightly higher voltage. As an example, AA alkalines are called 1.5vdc, but are really 1.2vdc. Lithium 1.5vdc batts are 1.5vdc from the get-go. Lithiums deliver a more constant voltage level vs alkies immediate downhill scale. Lithiums don't leak. You can get them on sale at all the big-box stores occasionally. All CR123 batts are lithium type. Yes, lithiums are expensive, but to find leaking alkies in your gear years from now because you forgot to rotate them out is scary. I use AA lithiums in all my go-to electronics, flashlights, NVDs, strobes, etc. The Energizer AAs in my EDC flashlight have an expiration date of 2024. Will they actually store that long under ideal conditions, I don't know.

45K40

The Reaper
05-05-2011, 18:43
A recommendation for AA batteries would be to stock only lithium types. Lithium batts have a typical shelflife of 10 or more yrs and are slightly higher voltage. As an example, AA alkalines are called 1.5vdc, but are really 1.2vdc. Lithium 1.5vdc batts are 1.5vdc from the get-go. Lithiums deliver a more constant voltage level vs alkies immediate downhill scale. Lithiums don't leak. You can get them on sale at all the big-box stores occasionally. All CR123 batts are lithium type. Yes, lithiums are expensive, but to find leaking alkies in your gear years from now because you forgot to rotate them out is scary. I use AA lithiums in all my go-to electronics, flashlights, NVDs, strobes, etc. The Energizer AAs in my EDC flashlight have an expiration date of 2024. Will they actually store that long under ideal conditions, I don't know.

45K40

In AA and AAA, I prefer a mix of Duracells and NiMH rechargables. I keep the Duracells in anything that is not going to be convenient to pull the batteries and recharge annually.

123s are obviously Lithiums. A good set of 123s should be GTG for ten years or more. I wouldn't count on the cheap Chinese ones lasting that long, even assuming they do not explode or catch fire.

TR

PSM
05-05-2011, 18:49
Looking at all that damage, I'll be adding hard hats.

Pat

turducken
05-16-2011, 10:42
Pretty impressive video of a man who essentially floodproofed his home during a flood in Arkansas. He built a moat that extends entirely around his home, and supported that with a pump run by his tractor to keep the flood level down. The moat is ugly as hell, but his home is safe and obviously that is what is important. Comment section is pretty inspiring too as you read how everyone came together during this disaster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgKsehkcIF8&feature=player_embedded#at=140

Boomer-61
08-02-2011, 08:42
This is a follow up on scanners.
The Uniden BCD396XT is a great scanner but the learning curve is a bit steep. I opted for the Uniden Home Patrol. The price was about the same as was it's range, size, weight. It was the most user friendly system that I could find. You simply plug it in, interface with your PC, program your time and location and you're done. The touch screen presents icons which represent service options (EMS, Fire, Police, Rail, Military) for scanning. The other item that sold me was the ACL-GPS interface kit ($139 retail). When using this kit it constantly feeds your location into the scanner and pulls from the frequencies within range. When using without this kit, you would have to know the zip codes you were passing through and enter them as you travel. The kit makes this a hands free operation. The Home Patrol offers a viable option for scanning with little time invested.