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SouthernDZ
03-08-2011, 14:37
Mar 8, 2:34 PM EST
Female GIs struggle with higher rate of divorce
By KIMBERLY HEFLING, Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Two failed marriages were the cost of war for Sgt. Jennifer Schobey.

The breaking point in her first marriage came when her husband deployed to Afghanistan, the last in a long line of separations they had endured as they juggled two military careers. Schobey married another combat veteran, but eventually that union failed under the weight of two cases of post-traumatic stress disorder - his and hers. They are now getting divorced.

Separations. Injuries. Mental health issues. All are added weights to the normal strains of marriage.

For women in the military, there's a cold, hard reality: Their marriages are more than twice as likely to end in divorce as those of their male comrades - and up to three times as likely for enlisted women.

About 220,000 women have served in Afghanistan and Iraq in roles ranging from helicopter pilots to police officers. Last year, 7.8 percent of women in the military got a divorce, compared with 3 percent of military men, according to Pentagon statistics. Among the military's enlisted corps, meaning they aren't commissioned officers, nearly 9 percent of women saw their marriages end, compared with a little more than 3 percent of the men.

Research indicates that military women also get divorced at higher rates than their peers outside the military, while military men divorce at lower rates than their peers, according to a journal article published last year by Princeton University's Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs and the Brookings Institution. Directly comparing divorce rates between the military and civilian sectors is difficult because of the way the numbers are kept. It also noted that older military women - ages 40-49 - are about half as likely to be in their first marriage as civilian women of the same age.

The percent of military women getting a divorce has been consistently higher for at least a decade.

Like all divorces, the results can be a sense of loss and a financial blow. But for military women, a divorce can be a breaking point - even putting them at greater risk for homelessness down the road.

It has an effect, too, on military kids. The military has more single moms than dads, and an estimated 30,000 of them have deployed in support of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Why military women are more burdened by divorce is unclear, although societal pressure is likely a factor.

"It's a strange situation, where there's a fair amount of equality in terms of their military roles, but as the military increasingly treats women the same as it treats men in terms of their work expectations, however, society still expects them to fulfill their family roles. And that's not equally balanced between men and women," said David Segal, director of the Center for Research on Military Organization at the University of Maryland.

One speculation is that while more traditional men join the military, women who are attracted to military life are less conventional - and perhaps less willing to stay in a bad marriage.

About half of all married women in the military are married to a fellow service member, compared with less than 10 percent of military men. While it can be an advantage to be married to someone who understands military life, balancing two military careers poses challenges.

Former Army Sgt. Daniela Gibson, an Afghan war veteran, knows that first-hand. Gibson, 24, spent more than four years apart from her military husband and thousands of dollars on long-distance phone calls as they each did war deployments, training and moves. She said it's tough to not feel insecure about your own marriage as you watch others falling apart around you and see fellow service members cheating on their spouses, which she says is all too frequent during deployments.

"Even just rumors of cheating can really affect you," Gibson said.

Gibson left the military after she got pregnant. She's now raising their 1-year-old in Mannheim, Germany, while her husband continues his military career. Fortunately, she said, they were able to make their marriage work.

"It was really hard. . We've gone through a lot of difficult points in the relationship and sometimes we weren't even sure how it was going to end up. But at the end I think it made us closer because it kind of made us prove to ourselves how much we wanted it," Gibson said. "We weren't about to just give up."

Female service members married to civilians face their own challenges. The rate of divorce among military women is higher for those married to civilians, said Benjamin Karney, a psychology professor at UCLA who studied the issue for the Rand Corp. Research has found that the husbands of female service members were less likely to be employed than military wives.

"You've got to look at the realities of what military life is like on the family, and it really is kind of set up around a traditional married model of a husband and a wife that runs the house, if you will," said Kimberly Olson, a retired Air Force colonel who is executive director of Grace After Fire, a support organization for female veterans.

Olson said many female warriors don't get the support and space they need after war service to transition back to their roles as wives and mothers.
"The expectation that you can just turn that emotion back on like a light switch just because you walk off the airplane and they got signs and balloons and your baby runs to you, it is not very realistic," Olson said.

"It takes a while to get back into that tender, loving woman that's a mother. And if you're married, that tender loving woman that's the wife. And of course, a lot of people demand a lot of things from women, because we kind of have a bad habit of taking care of everybody else first and ourselves last," she said.
When divorce does happen, it only adds to the stress faced by an already stressed-out population.

Staff Sgt. Robin D. Duncan-Chisolm, 47, of Upper Marlboro, Md., was deployed to Iraq last year with the District of Columbia National Guard while she was getting a divorce. She said she worried the entire time that she'd lose custody of her teenage son or lose the house that she and her husband had shared.
"I was able to smile ... but inside I had a lot of turmoil I needed to have resolved, things I needed to bring closure to," Duncan-Chisolm said.

She credits her friendships and support in the Guard with helping her get through the divorce. She and her son were able to take advantage of support programs offered through the Guard's "Yellow Ribbon Reintegration Program" to help with her transition home.

"If you don't have anybody to talk to and anybody to turn to, sometimes it gets a little difficult, and I'm glad I had that system in place," Duncan-Chisolm said.

Former Army Sgt. 1st Class Tashawnya McCullough, 38, said she didn't have that support when she returned from Iraq in 2004 to where she was stationed in Germany. Divorced at the time from a service member she says cheated on her, lonely and struggling with her combat experience, she turned to alcohol. It took two months for her to get her girls, then ages 4 and 11, from the United States, where one lived with her ex-husband and the other with friends.
"My home was so quiet it drove me nuts, and I was by myself. It really affected me horribly. I was not doing well," McCullough said. "I was just trying to not feel or think about anything. I had a really hard time with drinking."
McCullough eventually got help for her drinking, remarried and found work in Texas with Grace After Fire helping other female veterans.

Each of the military services today offers a variety of programs focused on strengthening or enriching marriage. The Army, for example, offers a program called "Strong Bonds," which provides relationship help to married couples as well as single soldiers and "resiliency" classes for spouses of both sexes.

Despite these efforts, Christina Roof, national acting legislative director of AMVETS, said there are not enough programs specifically targeting divorce among female service members. She said some husbands just don't feel comfortable being surrounded by wives as part of military family support programs, but they need to be educated about issues their wives may face when they return from war.

"I think that stress of a woman coming home ... and the man having no real training of someone sitting down and saying this is what it might be like when your wife gets back, that's just a recipe for disaster," Roof said.

Genevieve Chase, a staff sergeant in the Army Reserves who founded American Women Veterans, said she hears complaints from female service members who say how hard it is for their civilian husbands to understand what they do and feel accepted. If the husband has served and leaves the military to support the woman's military career, she said he endures constant remarks from others.

"Unfortunately, male military spouses don't get any credit or recognition," Chase said.

Schobey said she's proud to serve in the military but it's not always easy on the service member - or the service member's spouse.

"I think a big issue, or something a lot of couples have to work through is the fact that at any time we can get that phone call ... you're deploying again, or for me, here's some orders, you're moving to another state," Schobey said. "Then, you're uprooting your entire family and you're moving. Your spouse is expected to be supporting you, but that's not always the case, obviously. For two times now, that's not the case for me."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_FEMALE_GIS_DIVORCE?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

Dusty
03-08-2011, 14:39
The solution is simple; quit being so bitchy, gals.

Texas_Shooter
03-08-2011, 14:48
The solution is simple; quit being so bitchy, gals.

Wrong.

The men just feel emasculated because their women are off in Iraq or Afghanistan. The men feel that they do not wear the pants in the relationship and can not cope with that feeling. Those men are not strong enough to stand by their women and support them. Simply as that.

1stindoor
03-08-2011, 14:49
...
"I think a big issue, or something a lot of couples have to work through is the fact that at any time we can get that phone call ... you're deploying again, or for me, here's some orders, you're moving to another state," Schobey said. "Then, you're uprooting your entire family and you're moving. Your spouse is expected to be supporting you, but that's not always the case, obviously. For two times now, that's not the case for me."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_FEMALE_GIS_DIVORCE?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

Oh FFS! Grow the f$%k up! Honestly! You want equality? You want combat jobs? Welcome to the other side of the coin. I'm sorry your recruiter didn't explain to you all of the unintended consequences of your choice to marry. Doesn't matter if the Soldier in question is male or female, the Army expects to come first...and it will.

1stindoor
03-08-2011, 14:53
Wrong.

The men just feel emasculated because their women are off in Iraq or Afghanistan. The men feel that they do not wear the pants in the relationship and can not cope with that feeling. Those men are not strong enough to stand by their women and support them. Simply as that.

Really?...And this is based off of what? Your years of experience? Your time as a spouse of a Soldier? How about a warm cup of shut the f$%k up. At least the Soldiers in the article have actually served in uniform. Good or bad, they've done their time. Are you still awaiting a traffic ticket dismissal?

Ewok
03-08-2011, 15:23
As the spouse of a soldier (granted I'm female), I dislike broad generalizations such as the one made a couple of posts up. No, I will never know what it's like to be an emasculated man but I do know what it's like to take second, third or possibly fourth place to the needs of the Army. I cannot speak for the ladies in the article or their respective former spouses but I think maybe it's not vague or broad as it is individual choices and circumstances that added to their divorces. Speaking for myself only, I knew what I was getting when my then fiancee joined the Army.

Back to reading.

1stindoor
03-08-2011, 15:32
As the spouse of a soldier (granted I'm female),...

Thanks for supporting your husband, and putting up with the normal day to day BS that most civilians can not or will not understand.

Dusty
03-08-2011, 15:40
Wrong.

The men just feel emasculated because their women are off in Iraq or Afghanistan. The men feel that they do not wear the pants in the relationship and can not cope with that feeling. Those men are not strong enough to stand by their women and support them. Simply as that.

Did you ignore the pink font, or have you just been wanting to get that silly-assed opinion off your chest for a while?

Pete
03-08-2011, 15:59
Wrong.

The men just feel emasculated because their women are off in Iraq or Afghanistan. The men feel that they do not wear the pants in the relationship and can not cope with that feeling. Those men are not strong enough to stand by their women and support them. Simply as that.

Your statement does not square with this "......About half of all married women in the military are married to a fellow service member, compared with less than 10 percent of military men. While it can be an advantage to be married to someone who understands military life, balancing two military careers poses challenges....."

Could that be a factor as apposed to the standard "stay at home, working and juggling everything military wife"?

Texas_Shooter
03-08-2011, 16:05
Did you ignore the pink font, or have you just been wanting to get that silly-assed opinion off your chest for a while?

I thought your font color was a reflection of who it was towards: women.

Your statement does not square with this "......About half of all married women in the military are married to a fellow service member, compared with less than 10 percent of military men. While it can be an advantage to be married to someone who understands military life, balancing two military careers poses challenges....."

Could that be a factor as apposed to the standard "stay at home, working and juggling everything military wife"?

I should have clarified that I ment the civiliian men.

Pete
03-08-2011, 16:15
I thought your font color was a reflection of who it was towards: women.



I should have clarified that I ment the civiliian men.

Read more, post less.

Your lack of knowledge about pink font on this board shows you're not reading you're just screwing around.

I'm holding my thumb and pointer finger really, really close. You're "this close" to getting the hammer. As some would say "That's two."

Sigaba
03-08-2011, 16:33
Mar 8, 2:34 PM EST
Female GIs struggle with higher rate of divorce
By KIMBERLY HEFLING, Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Two failed marriages were the cost of war for Sgt. Jennifer Schobey.

<<SNIP>>

Why military women are more burdened by divorce is unclear, although societal pressure is likely a factor.

<<SNIP>>

One speculation is that while more traditional men join the military, women who are attracted to military life are less conventional - and perhaps less willing to stay in a bad marriage.

About half of all married women in the military are married to a fellow service member, compared with less than 10 percent of military men. I ♥ JOURNALISM.

ETA a clarification. My umbrage is directed at the journalistic approach to a complex article that leaves an important story working at cross purposes. Ms. Hefling wants us to understand better the experiences of women in the armed forces. Yet, her on one key question "What is happening?" works to the detriment of another key question: "Why is this happening?" My $0.02.

greenberetTFS
03-08-2011, 17:21
I don't know guys,I maybe setting myself up to get really slammed,but I believe in my case it was all the woman that made the difference........:) Stand by your man isn't just a song,my wife proved it is for real....... :) Not just for my service time but for the 53 years we've still managed to keep it together......... :) It's really all about commitment and her believing in the same thing you do............:)

Big Teddy

echoes
03-08-2011, 17:55
I thought your font color was a reflection of who it was towards: women.

Am just a civilian here, but sir, may I just say, piss off!!! (There are some pretty brave servicewomen on this board, so maybe plan on grabbing your ankles for that comment...) :munchin

Back to topic, cannot imagine the extra added hardships involved in being married to any service person! Another reason they deserve our support, IMHO.

Holly

Ewok
03-08-2011, 17:59
Thanks for supporting your husband, and putting up with the normal day to day BS that most civilians can not or will not understand.

No sir, thank you and all others who serve.

It's not always easy being the spouse of a soldier but it's not always difficult either. There are plenty of good times that go with the bad and we're both MUCH more appreciative of each other and our time together, which is about to get more restricted since we PCS to Bragg in June for him to attend the SFQC.

He came home from SFAS 15lbs lighter, beat up, starving and really tired but I've NEVER seen him so happy. How could I, claiming to be his partner, not support and applaud his decision? A decision of which I am fully aware will even more so limit my time with him.

To get back from that slight tangent to the topic, it seems to me from reading the article and from observing other spouses that some of either gender either didn't know what to expect, were/are in denial about what to expect, some sadly like the fanfare, or are just ill suited couples regardless of the job description. Are there probably some men out there who feel emasculated by their wives being soldiers while they stay home? I'm sure there are but it's not really a fair assessment to throw on an entire gender to say they just can't handle it.

afchic
03-08-2011, 19:16
Being a woman in the military is hard, being married to another service member is harder still, being a mom and a service member is the hardest still. Just got notified of my third remote away from my family.

My life is no different than my husband's, no harder or easier. We both knew what we were getting into when we got married. Either you can hold it together or you can't.

charlietwo
03-08-2011, 19:27
Wrong.

The men just feel emasculated because their women are off in Iraq or Afghanistan. The men feel that they do not wear the pants in the relationship and can not cope with that feeling. Those men are not strong enough to stand by their women and support them. Simply as that.

Totally wrong? That's probably a factor, but I would also venture to guess that putting a wide variety of confident, physically fit personalities in dangerous, confined areas is a factor as well. There's a reason for the term "Iraq-hot" or "Afghanistan-hot". It's simply a byproduct of introducing females into the ranks.

Since I've been recruiting, I often get questioned by flustered mothers or daughters as to why they don't allow females into combat arms. The best comparison I've found is how distracted the male athletes can get around female athletes in weight rooms. Then I introduce live rounds incoming and outgoing and that seems to get their attention. I haven't met a female yet that didn't at least respect that point of view.

there's a few of my pennies:munchin

Dozer523
03-08-2011, 19:28
This hard?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ38wu5Fp6w

Richard
03-08-2011, 19:48
Male or female - being married and in the military is hard. Fortunately for my wife, her anger is one of the few things I truly am afraid of in this world and provided the appropriate level of incentive for me to try my damndest to make it all work. :p

After 36 years...:D...and so it goes still...;)

Richard :munchin

afchic
03-08-2011, 20:08
This hard?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ38wu5Fp6w

Not quite THAT hard:)

Texas_Shooter
03-09-2011, 01:16
I know you all hate it when I comment but when I do, everyone tends to elaborate more to show me how I am wrong or what I said was just plain stupid (which I do make stupid comments on a regular basis), making me understand more of what all of you have on your mind. It makes me think more about the topic at hand.

ZonieDiver
03-09-2011, 01:29
I know you all hate it when I comment but when I do, everyone tends to elaborate more to show me how I am wrong or what I said was just plain stupid (which I do make stupid comments on a regular basis), making me understand more of what all of you have on your mind. It makes me think more about the topic at hand.

That is all well and good, but didn't Pete - a retired Sgt Major, and a much respected member here - ask you to "take a knee" for a bit and "read more and post less"?

I am old. I obviously don't remember stuff the way it happened, but I do remember that. As is said, "A word to the wise is sufficient." Take a knee. Resist the urge. Watch "Two Weeks in Hell" often. Listen to those who know.

Razor
03-09-2011, 15:08
It makes me think more about the topic at hand.

Sadly, it apparently doesn't make you think more deeply about the wisdom of hitting the 'submit reply' button.

Razor
03-09-2011, 15:10
Since I've been recruiting, I often get questioned by flustered mothers or daughters as to why they don't allow females into combat arms.

Do you ever ask them why they think there are no women in the NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL, PGA, etc.? Lots more money to be made being a pro athlete than a soldier, if career progression and earning potential is their actual concern.

echoes
03-09-2011, 17:07
I know you all hate it when I comment but when I do, everyone tends to elaborate more to show me how I am wrong or what I said was just plain stupid (which I do make stupid comments on a regular basis), making me understand more of what all of you have on your mind. It makes me think more about the topic at hand.

Counted 6 "I's" and 2"me's" in this response. Not good, IMHO. :rolleyes:

Female GI's struggle like the rest of the service personel, and can only imagine what it must be like. Hard-core, for sure!:munchin

Holly

Gypsy
03-09-2011, 18:24
I know you all hate it when I comment but when I do, everyone tends to elaborate more to show me how I am wrong or what I said was just plain stupid (which I do make stupid comments on a regular basis), making me understand more of what all of you have on your mind.

Ok I have to say it. Maybe you should think more about what's on your mind and stop continuing to knowingly make "stupid comments". Your words...not mine. A great way to invite conversation here is to make informed comments, and then invite point-counterpoint responses.



It makes me think more about the topic at hand.

It makes me think of that old saying...measure twice, cut once.

greenberetTFS
03-09-2011, 19:45
That is all well and good, but didn't Pete - a retired Sgt Major, and a much respected member here - ask you to "take a knee" for a bit and "read more and post less"?

I am old. I obviously don't remember stuff the way it happened, but I do remember that. As is said, "A word to the wise is sufficient." Take a knee. Resist the urge. Watch "Two Weeks in Hell" often. Listen to those who know.

I too am old,but like ZD said when a Sgt Major tells you something you best listen....:( We learned long ago that they don't speak unless it is important and meaningful..... :( If you don't learn anything else during your stay here,hopefully you'll understand that much.......:mad: Cease and desist!............:mad:

Big Teddy