View Full Version : Saturday's Protests in Wisconsin
Team Sergeant
02-19-2011, 11:40
It begins.
That unseen tsunami obama and his left-wing libs created is about to hit our shores. Wisconsin is the first, more states are on the brink. There's no more money..... America is broke. If we print one more dollar we are through.
Time to go to WalMart and buy ammo.
When Kalif goes (which it will very soon) a global "perfect storm" will start.
Hows that for change.
Saturday's Protests in Wisconsin Expected to Be Biggest Yet
Published February 19, 2011
FoxNews.com
Reuters
In the wake of a budget standoff in Wisconsin that has captured national attention and paralyzed the state, protesters on both sides are expected to clash Saturday in what police were anticipating would be the largest crowds seen yet in the weeklong demonstrations.
Dane County Sheriff Dave Mahoney predicted crowds could swell to as many as 70,000 people on Saturday and said his department planned to add 60 deputies to the 100 who patrolled during the week.
As many as 40,000 people, including teachers, students, firefighters and prison guards, swarmed the Capitol on Friday, raising the noise in its rotunda to earsplitting levels as they rallied to block Republican Gov. Scott Walker's efforts to ease Wisconsin's budget woes by cutting many government workers' pay, benefits and bargaining rights.
The crowds have been loud but peaceful. Police reported just nine citations for minor offenses as of Friday. Schools throughout the state have closed this week after teachers called in sick, including in the state's largest district, in Milwaukee.
About 200 protesters spent the night in the Capitol, readying for what is expected to be the biggest rally yet. Tensions could rise when conservative counter-protesters, set to arrive Saturday by the busload, show up to demand that the bill be passed. Those protests are being organized by the Tea Party Patriots, the movement's largest umbrella group, and Americans for Prosperity. The Capitol was to remain open, but access was being limited to a couple entrances.
No stranger to political unrest, Madison has seen activists take to the streets to protest the Vietnam war, support civil rights and oppose cuts in social services. Riots ensued 15 years ago when police clamped down on an annual block party that began as an anti-war protest in 1969.
Some say this week's rallies are unmatched in their sustained, impassioned energy -- bolstered by Senate Democrats who fled the state to delay action on Walker's proposal and threatened to stay in hiding for weeks if calls for negotiation go unheeded. State troopers were sent to retrieve the Democratic minority leader from his home Friday, but their knocks went unanswered.
"That's jaw-dropping. This is uncharted," said Mordecai Lee, a UW-Milwaukee political scientist and former state lawmaker who said he's been reminded this week of when motorcycle riders' protest of a helmet law in the late 1970s persuaded legislators to overturn the measure.
Democrats who stayed in Madison on Friday scored their own victory, forcing the state Assembly to adjourn until at least Tuesday without taking a vote on Walker's bill. Republicans, however, have more than enough votes to pass the measure once the Legislature can convene.
Tea Party activists angry with the Democratic senators who fled the state are exploring the possibility of recalling at least two of them.
Northwoods Patriots leader Kim Simac, of Eagle River, says the Tea Party group will meet Sunday to discuss recalling Sen. Jim Holperin after they return from Madison where they planned to rally at the Capitol Saturday.
Simac, a small business owner, says "it's embarrassing for the state of Wisconsin" that half of the Senate has "gone AWOL." Tea Party member Dan Hunt says a similar effort is under way in Kenosha where an exploratory committee will consider recalling Sen. Robert Wirch.
The Capital Times says a recall effort would require the exploratory committees to collect 15,000 to 20,000 petition signatures.
Sarah Palin weighed in with a Friday night posting on her Facebook page that urged "union brothers and sisters" not to ask taxpayers to support "unsustainable benefits packages."
"Real solidarity means everyone being willing to sacrifice and carry our share of the burden," Palin said in her post, which did not indicate whether she would join conservatives in Madison this weekend.
Walker insists the concessions he is seeking from public workers -- including higher health insurance and pension contributions -- are necessary to deal with the state's projected $3.6 billion budget shortfall and to avoid layoffs. Eliminating their collective bargaining rights, except over wage increases not greater than the Consumer Price Index, is necessary in order to give state and local governments and schools flexibility to deal with upcoming cuts in state aid, Walker said.
The leader of the state's largest public employee union said workers were prepared to discuss financial concessions but not to give up bargaining rights. Marty Beil, executive director of the Wisconsin State Employees Union, said protests would continue until Walker agrees to negotiate.
But neither Walker nor the Republicans who took control of both the state Senate and Assembly in November appear ready to make concessions. Walker has called on Senate Democrats to "come home" and rebuffed a request to sit down with them to seek a compromise.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/19/saturdays-protests-wisconsin-expected-biggest/
There are more than likely a whole bunch of folks who'd like to "change" their votes for Obama right now.
And more every day.
It begins.
Anticipation for a showdown has been building for a while and cannot be contained forever. Wisconsin is setting the stage but it’s only the first salvo. We certainly live in bewildering times and I hope it stays peaceful, we'll see.
GO WALKER!!!
And the Dems run away to hide. Wussies...
As many as 40,000 people, including teachers, students, firefighters and prison guards, swarmed the Capitol on Friday, raising the noise in its rotunda to earsplitting levels as they rallied to block Republican Gov. Scott Walker's efforts to ease Wisconsin's budget woes by cutting many government workers' pay, benefits and bargaining rights.
Well, the state could always raise taxes and break the citizens backs...you know, like they're doing in IL. :rolleyes: I'd rather have cuts instead of no job at all.
Don't worry, they are just the kum-ba-ya type.
Alicia Wright, foreground right, and Andrea Russell, both of Madison, practice yoga on the floor of the rotunda at the state Capitol in Madison, Wis., on Saturday, Feb. 19, 2011. The two yoga teachers joined protests by union members, students, and others against Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker's bill to eliminate collective bargaining rights for many state workers.
(AP Photo/Wisconsin State Journal, M.P. King)
ZonieDiver
02-19-2011, 17:53
There are more than likely a whole bunch of folks who'd like to "change" their votes for Obama right now.
And more every day.
Unfortunately, 90% of the people I work with daily are hardcore Obama-ites. I am sorry to report that most of them just do NOT get, and probably never will. Trying to educate these so-called educators is totally frustrating, an an exercise in futility.
We are just four Meals from total Anarchy. Always keep at least a 3 month supply in your house. Doesn't take much. I do it in a two bedroom Apartment.
Unfortunately, 90% of the people I work with daily are hardcore Obama-ites. I am sorry to report that most of them just do NOT get, and probably never will. Trying to educate these so-called educators is totally frustrating, an an exercise in futility.
'Educators', as a rule, are like a herd of oxen when it comes to religion, politics and science; they're driven by trends and are almost incapable of individual thought. Peer scorn terrifies them, and they thrive on being obnoxious in any situation in which they find themselves with non-educators, IMO.
('m speaking of teachers, administrators and principals from elementary through grad school, not Military Instructors.)
We are just four Meals from total Anarchy. Always keep at least a 3 month supply in your house. Doesn't take much. I do it in a two bedroom Apartment.
That's excellent advice. I may be a little overcautious, but I'm gonna try and keep a year ahead with rice, beans, salsa and salt.
Dozer523
02-19-2011, 19:21
'Educators', as a rule, are like a herd of oxen when it comes to religion, politics and science; they're driven by trends and are almost incapable of individual thought. Peer scorn terrifies them, and they thrive on being obnoxious in any situation in which they find themselves with non-educators, IMO.
('m speaking of teachers, administrators and principals from elementary through grad school, not Military Instructors.) Fat, too.
With obvious exceptions
Fat, too.
With obvious exceptions
And many have halitosis due to gingivitis.
An article from a few years ago - I suspect that things have not improved.
http://www.cwu.edu/~manwellerm/academic%20bias.pdf
Excerpts:
"The purpose of this study was to inquire as to whether data from a large scale summary of American Academic institutions sheds any light on the contentious debate over the political culture of academia. Is it true that most professors in American colleges and universities are left of center politically? And is there any evidence to indicate that this ideological homogeneity hinders the professional advancement of political conservatives?"
"The results show that the political orientation of the professoriate is tilted toward liberal attitudes and the Democratic Party. Further, the predominance of liberal and Democratic perspectives is not limited to particular types of institutions or to those occupying particular fields of study."
That's excellent advice. I may be a little overcautious, but I'm gonna try and keep a year ahead with rice, beans, salsa and salt.
If I wasn't starting over living in an Apartment. I would keep that much also. Use to have about one years worth. When I was a home owner.
If I wasn't starting over living in an Apartment. I would keep that much also. Use to have about one years worth. When I was a home owner.
We got snowed in up here for only a few days and actually broke into the rice stash. :D
Amazing how important food and water are when you can't get them.
Magician posted a wonderful Korean dog recipe awhile back, I'll see if I can find the bones to post in case of an emergency.
Magician posted a wonderful Korean dog recipe awhile back
All well and good, but I don't have a Korean dog. ;)
Pat
America is broke. If we print one more dollar we are through.
On this one point, I am not in complete agreement. I believe we printed that critical dollar some time ago. We have already gone off the cliff, and we are now accelerating towards an awful crash. Pumping the breaks (on spending) won't help.
Will it resolve peacefully? I hope so, but I think not.
incarcerated
02-19-2011, 22:10
All well and good, but I don't have a Korean dog. ;)
Pat
The neighbor has a Great Dane! :D
What’s a good marinade?
The neighbor has a Great Dane! :D
What’s a good marinade?
Not sure, but I'd serve it with a blonde sauce. ;)
Pat
greenberetTFS
02-20-2011, 07:11
Magician posted a wonderful Korean dog recipe awhile back, I'll see if I can find the bones to post in case of an emergency.
Yeah I remember that!...............;)
Big Teddy :munchin
Seems to be kinda' like Greece.
You have the Public sector unions standing up on deck whipping the private sector workers at the oars to row faster.
The real problem becomes when those with the whips outnumber the ones with the oars. When one rower has two people whipping him its hard to row and you disrupt the rowing on your side of the ship.
And once again - the unions offer up the classroom teachers as a sacrific to jobs cuts - and scare the public into paying more more money to the school system. Never, never cut the overhead staff levels. After all, public schools have to focus on whats important - job security.
The Reaper
02-22-2011, 08:31
What should one buy in order to have a three-month food supply?
Add to your groceries every week. If you need three cans of tuna, buy four or five.
You can make that simpler by going to Walton Feed and ordering the items you need in bulk. Just multiply the number of people you need to feed by the time you want to provide the food. If you call and ask them, they usually have people who order in bulk for your area. If you go through them, you minimize the shipping costs as long as you do not mind going to a centralized delivery area to pick it up. If you order enough, they will deliver it to your town, if not your house. Make sure you have the climate controlled room to store it. Most food products do not age well at high temperatures. The LDS church is a good resource for food needs and storage.
Look at your water supply and determine how you would obtain potable water if your current source were cut off or contaminated.
Make sure that the food you store can be prepared with what you have for cooking. You might not want to count too heavily on the microwave or any other electric or natural gas appliance.
Sorry for the hijack, please return to the political discussion.
TR
by TS: "When Kalif goes (which it will very soon) a global "perfect storm" will start.
Hows that for change."
Agree. It's the "global" debt and other international agreements some of these states have that will be the undoing. We are headed for our knees and the dogs and jackals are going to enjoy high carnival. Watch.
What should one buy in order to have a three-month food supply?
Don't want to hijack. Here is all the info you need.
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10819
One problem I have about this. I'm not pro Union in any way. Union bitching is what shut down our CT Unit at AMTRAK.
But once again it's working people who are getting hit. When you know just as many Tax dollars are being wasted on non working people and programs. But they know it's safe to go after the responsible ones in society.
They know Teachers and other State workers aren't going to riot and burn shit down. At least not yet that is. I know what it's like to have a pension ripped from your grasp. I feel for both sides here.
silentreader
02-22-2011, 13:54
One problem I have about this. I'm not pro Union in any way. Union bitching is what shut down our CT Unit at AMTRAK.
But once again it's working people who are getting hit. When you know just as many Tax dollars are being wasted on non working people and programs. But they know it's safe to go after the responsible ones in society.
They know Teachers and other State workers aren't going to riot and burn shit down. At least not yet that is. I know what it's like to have a pension ripped from your grasp. I feel for both sides here.
This op-ed (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/22/opinion/22brooks.html?hp) kind of makes the same point- cuts are clearly needed, but these go after a very specific class of people. Shared suffering is much more palatable if it's actually shared.
Over the past few weeks we’ve begun to see the new contours of American politics. The budget cutters have taken control of the agenda, while government’s defenders are waging tactical retreats. Given the scope of the fiscal problems, it could be like this for the next 10 or 20 years.
No place is hotter than Wisconsin. The leaders there have done everything possible to maximize conflict. Gov. Scott Walker, a Republican, demanded cuts only from people in the other party. The public sector unions and their allies immediately flew into a rage, comparing Walker to Hitler, Mussolini and Mubarak.
Walker’s critics are amusingly Orwellian. They liken the crowd in Madison to the ones in Tunisia and claim to be fighting for democracy. Whatever you might say about Walker, he and the Republican majorities in Wisconsin were elected, and they are doing exactly what they told voters they would do. It’s the Democratic minority that is thwarting the majority will by fleeing to Illinois. It’s the left that has suddenly embraced extralegal obstructionism.
Still, let’s try to put aside the hyperventilation. Everybody now seems to agree that Governor Walker was right to ask state workers to pay more for their benefits. Even if he gets everything he asks for, Wisconsin state workers would still be contributing less to their benefits than the average state worker nationwide and would be contributing far, far less than private sector workers.
The more difficult question is whether Walker was right to try to water down Wisconsin’s collective bargaining agreements. Even if you acknowledge the importance of unions in representing middle-class interests, there are strong arguments on Walker’s side. In Wisconsin and elsewhere, state-union relations are structurally out of whack.
That’s because public sector unions and private sector unions are very different creatures. Private sector unions push against the interests of shareholders and management; public sector unions push against the interests of taxpayers. Private sector union members know that their employers could go out of business, so they have an incentive to mitigate their demands; public sector union members work for state monopolies and have no such interest.
Private sector unions confront managers who have an incentive to push back against their demands. Public sector unions face managers who have an incentive to give into them for the sake of their own survival. Most important, public sector unions help choose those they negotiate with. Through gigantic campaign contributions and overall clout, they have enormous influence over who gets elected to bargain with them, especially in state and local races.
As a result of these imbalanced incentive structures, states with public sector unions tend to run into fiscal crises. They tend to have workplaces where personnel decisions are made on the basis of seniority, not merit. There is little relationship between excellence and reward, which leads to resentment among taxpayers who don’t have that luxury.
Yet I think Governor Walker made a strategic error in setting up this confrontation as he did. The debt problems before us are huge. Even in Wisconsin they cannot be addressed simply by taking on the public sector unions. Studies done in North Carolina and elsewhere suggest that collective bargaining only increases state worker salaries by about 5 percent or 6 percent. That’s not nearly enough to explain current deficits. There are many states without collective bargaining that still face gigantic debt crises.
Getting state and federal budgets under control will take decades. It will require varied, multipronged approaches, supported by broad and shifting coalitions. It’s really important that we establish an unwritten austerity constitution: a set of practices that will help us cut effectively now and in the future.
The foundation of this unwritten constitution has to be this principle: make everybody hurt. The cuts have to be spread more or less equitably among as many groups as possible. There will never be public acceptance if large sectors of society are excluded. Governor Walker’s program fails that test. It spares traditional Republican groups (even cops and firefighters). It is thus as unsustainable as the current tide of red ink.
Moreover, the constitution must emphasize transparent evaluation. Over the past weeks, Governor Walker increased expenditures to pump up small business job creation and cut them on teacher benefits. That might be the right choice, but if voters are going to go along with choices such as these, there is going to have to be a credible evaluation process to explain why some things are cut and some things aren’t.
So I’d invite Governor Walker and the debt fighters everywhere to think of themselves as founding fathers of austerity. They are not only balancing budgets, they are setting precedent for a process that will last decades. By their example, they have to create habits that diverse majorities can respect and embrace. The process has to be balanced. It has to make everybody hurt.
GratefulCitizen
02-22-2011, 14:31
You can either have a nice compensation package
-or-
you can have protection from layoffs.
Not both.
Some unions have yet to figure out this concept.
My union negotiated a nice compensation package.
The cost of that package is layoffs.
There is no such thing as a free lunch.
You can either have a nice compensation package
-or-
you can have protection from layoffs.
Not both.
Some unions have yet to figure out this concept.
My union negotiated a nice compensation package.
The cost of that package is layoffs.
There is no such thing as a free lunch.
Also, working people aren't looking for a free lunch
The Reaper
02-22-2011, 14:51
Also, working people aren't looking for a free lunch
I thought that the ones who replaced you at AMTRAK were.
TR
Buffalobob
02-22-2011, 16:17
One problem I have about this. I'm not pro Union in any way. Union bitching is what shut down our CT Unit at AMTRAK.
But once again it's working people who are getting hit. When you know just as many Tax dollars are being wasted on non working people and programs. But they know it's safe to go after the responsible ones in society.
They know Teachers and other State workers aren't going to riot and burn shit down. At least not yet that is. I know what it's like to have a pension ripped from your grasp. I feel for both sides here.
I worked in gov't all my life. I wanted a secure job with a secure retirement and dependable working hours so I was willing to forego high pay in the private sector. First of all, people should remember the economy of the late 80's and early 90's and not run around like henny penny claiming the sky is falling. I was furloughed twice in my career due to budget problems when the DC gov't decided to balance the budget on the backs of it employees. Interesting thing was that the bank still wanted me to pay my mortgage and my children still expected dinner to be on the table.
I was never in a union and always some portion of my salary was taken to contribute to health insurance and the CSSR program and or social security. So I have little sympathy for people who do not contribute unless their salary is less because of it. On the other hand when you give a $150M tax break to businesses and create a $150M deficit to be taken out of the daily lives of your employees one has to ponder your moral and ethical values.
I thought that the ones who replaced you at AMTRAK were.
TR
Replaced us on Paper to cover their asses. But really they just got rid of us with massive pay cuts and forced to join the Union. I think three guys are still there. Only one SF Guy.
Well...MoveOn.Org is on the move...
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
Dear MoveOn member,
Moments like these don't come along often.
Newly-elected Tea Party governor Scott Walker thought he could slash the Wisconsin state budget and dismantle 50 years of workers' rights without a fight, but boy was he wrong.
Hundreds of thousands of regular Wisconsinites—teachers, firefighters, police officers, students—have taken to the streets of Madison. They've occupied the capitol building for the last 7 days and nights.
But this isn't just about Wisconsin. In state capitals across the country, and in Washington, D.C., Republicans are using the wrecked economy as an excuse to slash vital programs and hurt workers. The American Dream itself is under attack.
So we're helping lead an emergency call for rallies in every state capital this Saturday at noon to support folks in Wisconsin and oppose these attacks, wherever they occur.
We have only 4 days to organize, so we're trying something unusual—asking thousands of individuals and local groups to add their names to this call to action. Will you share the call with your personal network—plus get any groups you're part of to sign on? Clicking here will add your name:
Start getting the word out about this Saturday's rallies
We're finalizing the details and we'll get back to you to sign up soon, but we have to start spreading the word right now if Saturday is going to be huge.
Here's the call to action:
50-State Mobilization to Save the American Dream
Calling all students, teachers, union members, workers, patriots, public servants, unemployed folks, progressives, and people of conscience:
In Wisconsin and around our country, the American Dream is under fierce attack. Instead of creating jobs, Republicans are giving tax breaks to corporations and the very rich, and then cutting funding for education, police, emergency response and vital human services. The right to organize is on the chopping block. The American Dream is slipping out of reach for more and more Americans, and we have to fight back.
We call for emergency rallies in front of every statehouse this Saturday at noon to stand in solidarity with the people of Wisconsin. Demand an end to the attacks on workers' rights and public services across the country. Demand investment, to create decent jobs for the millions of people who desperately want to work. And demand that the rich and powerful pay their fair share.
We are all Wisconsin.
We are all Americans.
Add your endorsement and this Saturday we will stand together to save the American Dream.
–Daniel, Lenore, Joan, Justin, and the rest of the team
P.S. In addition to allies like PCCC, Color of Change, CREDO Action, Democracy for America, Campaign for Community Change, National People's Action, TrueMajority, US Action, Progressive Majority, and Courage Campaign, green jobs visionary Van Jones has joined this call to action as well. His inspiring words from The Huffington Post this morning are worth quoting:
"In the past 24 months, those of us who longed for positive change have gone from hope to heartbreak. But hope is returning to America—at last—thanks largely to the courageous stand of the heroes and heroines of Wisconsin.
Reinvigorated by the idealism and fighting spirit on display right now in America's heartland, the movement for "hope and change" has a rare, second chance. It can renew itself and become again a national force with which to be reckoned.
Over the next hours and days, all who love this country need to do everything possible to spread the "spirit of Madison" to all 50 states. This does not mean we need to occupy 50 state capitol buildings; things elsewhere are not yet that dire. But this weekend, the best of America should rally on the steps of every statehouse in the union."
greenberetTFS
02-22-2011, 17:24
Richard,
Exactly,considering their source: green jobs visionary "Van Jones" has joined this call to action as well. His inspiring words from The Huffington Post this morning are worth quoting:........:rolleyes::eek::p
Big Teddy :munchin
Team Sergeant
02-22-2011, 22:51
Richard,
Exactly,considering their source: green jobs visionary "Van Jones" has joined this call to action as well. His inspiring words from The Huffington Post this morning are worth quoting:........:rolleyes::eek::p
Big Teddy :munchin
I recently saw Van Jones on a TV reality show, it was called "Are you smarter than a trash can lid?"
Dozer523
02-23-2011, 04:11
You can either have a nice compensation package -or- you can have protection from layoffs.
Not both.
Some unions have yet to figure out this concept.
My union negotiated a nice compensation package.
The cost of that package is layoffs.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. The Union Rocks!
As long as you have seniority.
But for the other 90% your just LH,FF fodder.
I think most Unions have figured that out. I think you can have both by eliminating the word "nice" and substituting "fair".
Ahhh but what is fair? To the 20+ year Union member "fair" is "nice".
The Union Rocks! As long as you have seniority.
Here is a op-ed that brings the Public Union -vs- Private Union argument(s) into perspective.
The Left blurs the distinction so as to gain sympathy..
The Right is failing to make the distinction dominate enough to allow both side is see the problem.
Net Net: There should be no unions in any public sector jobs that are supported and paid by our taxes.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/02/democracy_diseased
Public-sector unions and fiscal exploitation, Feb 22nd 2011, 22:32 by W.W.
IOWA CITY
EZRA KLEIN attempts to blur the distinction between public- and private-sector unions. Indeed, the title of his post, "You can't separate public and private unions", suggests that there is no distinction. But of course there is. The difference is profound, and goes to the very heart of liberal political theory.
As Max Weber taught, the state is an institution distinguished by its claim to a "monopoly on the legitimate use of violence". The principal task of political philosophy is to give an account of the conditions under which it is morally legitimate or justified for an exclusive group of people to get things done by threatening and applying coercion to the rest of the inhabitants of a certain territory. On the dominant liberal account, several things need to be true before some small subset of a population can be justified in pushing the rest of us around. First, it needs to solve a problem to which there is no voluntary or non-coercive solution. According to the standard story, only the artful application of credible threats of violence can deliver certain "public goods" without which we would all be worse off. This is, by and large, what the state is for. Of course, any state powerful enough to deliver the public goods and protect our rights is powerful enough to violate them. We each have ample reason to reject the authority of any state that does not rely on the oversight and authorisation of those of us at the business end of police batons. The government of the state must take a form that minimises the chances of the abuse of state violence. According to both liberal theory and history, some form of representative democracy seems to be the ticket.
While the liberal-democratic state has proven better than the known alternatives, it creates a number of serious problems on the way to solving others. Among the greatest of these problems is maintaining a system of public finance that does not stray outside the bounds of liberal legitimacy. The power to tax and spend is necessary for the performance of the democratic state's legitimate functions, but it is also a ready tool of exploitation and distributive injustice. An ideally legitimate state does nothing people can do better on voluntary terms, and it takes no more from people in taxes than is necessary to finance necessary public goods. But this is a moral target we never hit because the strategic logic of redistributive democracy reliably errs in the direction of expansion of services, deficit spending, and the abuse of taxpayers and other not-very-organised constituencies at the hands of highly-organised special interests.
If we are concerned to minimise exploitation—if we care about the extent to which state violence is public-spirited and not merely criminal—we must go out of our way to acknowledge and guard against the abuses of fiscal democracy.
It is in the context of these concerns that we must consider the function of public-sector unions. If they do anything at all, it is to protect their members' claims on future government revenue from democratic discretion—to limit the power of the elected representatives of the democratic public to set the terms on which union-members will receive transfers from taxpayers. That these transfers come to workers in the form of compensation for services rendered the government seems to confuse a lot people. This is, I think, why people on both sides of the debate are distracted by the question of whether government workers are or are not "overpaid". To my mind, the real question is whether government workers should be granted special legal powers that (a) are unavailable to other groups whose welfare also turns on transfers from the treasury, or on the size of compulsory transfers from their bank accounts to the treasury, and (b) limit democratic sovereignty over the distribution of the burdens and benefits of the system of public finance.
I would argue on liberal grounds that justice demands limits on democratic sovereignty over budgetary matters precisely to avoid the exploitative redistribution that otherwise occurs. That's why I support constitutionalising nondiscrimination requirements on fiscal policy, among other reforms. My principled objection to public-sector unions is that their powers limit democratic sovereignty over taxation and public spending in a way that advantages some citizens at the expence of others—in a way that makes fiscal exploitation more, not less likely. Should they have grievances about their cut of the public budget, non-unionised government employees have recourse to the exact same democratic institutions as do other groups of citizens, which is as it should be. If we cannot trust democratic bodies to treat government workers fairly, then we cannot trust democratic bodies generally.
Anyway, whether or not you agree with me, this particular set of political issues simply does not arise in discussions of private-sector unions. The problem of bargaining over shares of the surplus from voluntary exchange between workers, capitalists, and consumers is a different problem. It's easy to separate private- and public-sector unions once you know how! Indeed, it's not only possible but reasonable to support private-sector unions as a safeguard against economic exploitation and oppose public-sector unions as an instrument of political exploitation. That would not be the possible, much less reasonable, were Mr Klein correct about the inseparability of the two kinds of unions.
Badger52
02-23-2011, 07:24
I recently saw Van Jones on a TV reality show, it was called "Are you smarter than a trash can lid?"That is classic sigline material.
It's entirely possible that, in the words of a good friend from Wyoming, things could "get western" up here. Union sycophants are coming from all over to lend moral support. The assertion that Gov. Walker has done anything detrimental yet to a state deficit is ludicrous, being in office a bit over a month. As said before (like many states' demographics) there is Madison & Milwaukee, and the rest of the state. In this case Scott Walker got elected by the latter, who'd simply had enough from the metro Centers for Excellence in Academic Hankie-Wringing. I'm sure there are plenty of motivated & quality young people with a credential, currently unemployed, who'd like a chance to start their noble profession. I wouldn't mind seeing a replay of PATCO, and that could be applied to AWOL legislators as well.
Of course, with a smile, fine micro-brews and the best selection of cheese curds in the world.
Perhaps people should pause a moment to review the history of the situation, and the life of Robert M. La Follette, Sr. in particular, to better understand how this all came to be and to get an idea of how we just might not want to reutrn to some of those nostalgically forgotten "good ol' days."
Just sayin...
Richard :munchin
Perhaps people should pause a moment to review the history of the situation, and the life of Robert M. La Follette, Sr. in particular, to better understand how this all came to be and to get an idea of how we just might not want to reutrn to some of those nostalgically forgotten "good ol' days."
Just sayin...
Richard :munchin
Unions = Marxism
I recently saw Van Jones on a TV reality show, it was called "Are you smarter than a trash can lid?"LMMFAO!
We are just four Meals from total Anarchy. Always keep at least a 3 month supply in your house. Doesn't take much. I do it in a two bedroom Apartment.
Hey brother, we've got Elk in Wyoming, bring ammo.
Dozer523
02-23-2011, 21:19
Here is a op-ed that brings the Public Union -vs- Private Union argument(s) into perspective..
I guess I should a used pink.
The Union Rocks!
longrange1947
02-24-2011, 21:36
I often wonder why it is that the Dims scream undue influence when a fairly large group even talks to Republlicans. But the Unions, that ony account for 7.4 per cent of the population, can visit and call the President weekly at least; and run the Dims agenda. :munchin
I often wonder why it is that the Dims scream undue influence when a fairly large group even talks to Republlicans. But the Unions, that ony account for 7.4 per cent of the population, can visit and call the President weekly at least; and run the Dims agenda. :munchin
Mmmmm……. Or how bout' when the Dims say “elections have consequences” and “the people spoke” but when a republican is elected (WI) and makes a “change” the Dims run like cowards.:mad:
If I can’t win I’m taking my ball and going home.:boohoo
alright4u
02-25-2011, 06:15
The teachers union is active here in Nashville, too. In fact, the teachers and their union were in the state capital demonstrating this week. They may have hit the road as we has very bad weather last night?
Mmmmm……. Or how bout' when the Dims say “elections have consequences” and “the people spoke” but when a republican is elected (WI) and makes a “change” the Dims run like cowards.:mad:
If I can’t win I’m taking my ball and going home.:boohoo
They're just doing what comes naturally.
The means to the end is immaterial to a lib.
Team Sergeant
02-25-2011, 07:56
How to break unions, fire "all" of them.......:D
To all those folks that still believe we are "recovering" I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you. This train wreck is just starting........
Education
Board Votes to Lay Off All Providence Teachers
Published February 25, 2011
| Associated Press
PROVIDENCE, R.I. -- The school board of the state's financially troubled capital city has voted to send termination letters to all of its nearly 2,000 teachers after city officials said the move would give them "maximum flexibility" to make budget cuts.
State law requires school departments to notify teachers by March 1 if they'll be laid off the following school year.
Providence teachers received notices of potential layoffs before the board met Thursday night and voted 4-3 on sending termination letters. The notices don't mean the teachers will lose their jobs, but the vote means some of them could at the end of the year. The vote give the city the opportunity to terminate as many teachers as it deems necessary for budgetary reasons, but the city hasn't indicated how many that could be.
Providence Teachers Union President Steve Smith had said earlier the decision was "beyond insane" and created chaos and anxiety among teachers.
More than 700 teachers packed the Providence Career and Technical Academy gymnasium Thursday to tell school officials their hearts were broken, their trust was violated and their futures as teachers were jeopardized, The Providence Journal newspaper reported.
continued:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/02/25/board-votes-layoff-providence-teachers/
Politics. :confused:
Richard :munchin
Shock Doctrine, U.S.A.
Paul Krugman, NYT, 24 Feb 2011
Here’s a thought: maybe Madison, Wis., isn’t Cairo after all. Maybe it’s Baghdad — specifically, Baghdad in 2003, when the Bush administration put Iraq under the rule of officials chosen for loyalty and political reliability rather than experience and competence.
As many readers may recall, the results were spectacular — in a bad way. Instead of focusing on the urgent problems of a shattered economy and society, which would soon descend into a murderous civil war, those Bush appointees were obsessed with imposing a conservative ideological vision. Indeed, with looters still prowling the streets of Baghdad, L. Paul Bremer, the American viceroy, told a Washington Post reporter that one of his top priorities was to “corporatize and privatize state-owned enterprises” — Mr. Bremer’s words, not the reporter’s — and to “wean people from the idea the state supports everything.”
The story of the privatization-obsessed Coalition Provisional Authority was the centerpiece of Naomi Klein’s best-selling book “The Shock Doctrine,” which argued that it was part of a broader pattern. From Chile in the 1970s onward, she suggested, right-wing ideologues have exploited crises to push through an agenda that has nothing to do with resolving those crises, and everything to do with imposing their vision of a harsher, more unequal, less democratic society.
Which brings us to Wisconsin 2011, where the shock doctrine is on full display.
In recent weeks, Madison has been the scene of large demonstrations against the governor’s budget bill, which would deny collective-bargaining rights to public-sector workers. Gov. Scott Walker claims that he needs to pass his bill to deal with the state’s fiscal problems. But his attack on unions has nothing to do with the budget. In fact, those unions have already indicated their willingness to make substantial financial concessions — an offer the governor has rejected.
What’s happening in Wisconsin is, instead, a power grab — an attempt to exploit the fiscal crisis to destroy the last major counterweight to the political power of corporations and the wealthy. And the power grab goes beyond union-busting. The bill in question is 144 pages long, and there are some extraordinary things hidden deep inside.
For example, the bill includes language that would allow officials appointed by the governor to make sweeping cuts in health coverage for low-income families without having to go through the normal legislative process.
And then there’s this: “Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the department may sell any state-owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best interest of the state. Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (b).”
What’s that about? The state of Wisconsin owns a number of plants supplying heating, cooling, and electricity to state-run facilities (like the University of Wisconsin). The language in the budget bill would, in effect, let the governor privatize any or all of these facilities at whim. Not only that, he could sell them, without taking bids, to anyone he chooses. And note that any such sale would, by definition, be “considered to be in the public interest.”
If this sounds to you like a perfect setup for cronyism and profiteering — remember those missing billions in Iraq? — you’re not alone. Indeed, there are enough suspicious minds out there that Koch Industries, owned by the billionaire brothers who are playing such a large role in Mr. Walker’s anti-union push, felt compelled to issue a denial that it’s interested in purchasing any of those power plants. Are you reassured?
The good news from Wisconsin is that the upsurge of public outrage — aided by the maneuvering of Democrats in the State Senate, who absented themselves to deny Republicans a quorum — has slowed the bum’s rush. If Mr. Walker’s plan was to push his bill through before anyone had a chance to realize his true goals, that plan has been foiled. And events in Wisconsin may have given pause to other Republican governors, who seem to be backing off similar moves.
But don’t expect either Mr. Walker or the rest of his party to change those goals. Union-busting and privatization remain G.O.P. priorities, and the party will continue its efforts to smuggle those priorities through in the name of balanced budgets.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/opinion/25krugman.html?ref=opinion
Politics. :confused: Richard :munchin
As an alternate view and impartial attempt to stir the pot... :D
http://www.wnd.com/index.php/index.php?pageId=267317
Communists, socialists, Marxists, Oh my! You won't believe who's really behind Wisconsin protests, February 24, 2011, By Aaron Klein, WorldNetDaily
One of the main groups organizing the Wisconsin union protests is a spinoff from an activist academy modeled after Marxist community organizer Saul Alinsky and described as teaching tactics of direct action, confrontation and intimidation.
President Obama once funded that academy - the radical Midwest Academy. He has been closely tied to the group's founder, socialist activist Heather Booth.
Obama also is closely tied to scores of other radicals behind the Wisconsin opposition protesting Gov. Scott Walker's proposal for most state workers to pay 12 percent of their health care premiums and 5.8 percent of their salary toward their own pensions.
Read more: Communists, socialists, Marxists, Oh my!
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=267317#ixzz1Ez8UzUPQ
Who are you gonna believe???
Working at the high school I think the IL ED Asso members forget that I get their "group emails"...
This latest one is from the local rep... Their mindest makes me sick to stomach...
Side - I thought it was illegal to send political/religious communique's on district/gov't email??
Rally to Save the American Dream
In Wisconsin and around our country, the American Dream is under fierce attack. Instead of creating jobs, Republicans are giving tax breaks to corporations and the very rich—and then cutting funding for education, police, emergency response, and vital human services.
On Saturday, February 26, at noon local time, we are organizing rallies in front of every statehouse and in every major city to stand in solidarity with the people of Wisconsin. We demand an end to the attacks on worker's rights and public services across the country. We demand investment, to create decent jobs for the millions of people who desperately want to work. And we demand that the rich and powerful pay their fair share.
We are all Wisconsin. We are all Americans.
This Saturday, we will stand together to Save the American Dream.Sign up today to join in!
Edited out are directions to the demostration site in Springfield, IL (if you would like them, PM me and I'll forward them to you. :D)
The Reaper
02-25-2011, 09:41
IMHO, Krugman is a flack and a tool.
TR
February 25, 2011
Krugman's Third World Fantasy
By David Harsanyi
According to Nobel laureate and raconteur Paul Krugman, Gov. Scott Walker and "his backers" are attempting to "make Wisconsin -- and eventually, America -- less of a functioning democracy and more of a Third World-style oligarchy."
Now, it's common knowledge that throwing around loaded words, such as "socialism," is both uncivil and obtuse, so it's comforting to know we can still refer to people as "Third World-style oligarchs." And boy, that kind of banana republic doesn't seem very appealing.
Democracy, naturally, can only be saved by public-sector unions, which attain their political power and taxpayer-funded benefits by "negotiating" with politicians elected with the help of unions who use, well, taxpayer dollars. And you know, that doesn't sound like an oligarchy at all.
Though Walker -- who won office using obnoxious Third World oligarchic tactics, e.g., getting more votes than the other candidate -- is a cancer in the heart of democracy, union-funded Democrats evading their constitutional obligation to cast votes are only protecting the integrity of representative government by completely avoiding democracy.
You're getting it now, right?
In this world, when you tax a citizen a bit less to try to generate economic growth, you are not taking less from the taxpayer, but "stealing" from a third party who, at some point in his life, was told he had an indelible right to your wallet, no matter the cost. And if you don't hand it over? Well, even though Wisconsin is home to some of the nation's highest taxes and even though the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported that tax cuts are "not even in effect yet, so they cannot be part of the current problem," you can't stop unionists from blaming "giveaways" to the rich.
And isn't it always the rich?
Surely, by now you've heard of the Koch brothers (pronounced "Eichmanns"), billionaire businessmen who spend their own money championing free market ideals and capitalism. Plutocrats!
The libertarian Kochs are super-rich and gave less than $2 million to Republicans in the most recent election cycle, which mathematically speaking amounts to nothing. In fact, Timothy Carney of The Washington Examiner dispatched Krugman's claim that unions are a "counterweight to the political power of big money" by pointing out that every one of the top 10 "industries contributing to the 2010 elections gave more money to Democrats."
If some public union rollbacks are a harbinger of the rebirth of the robber barons, why is it that the Service Employees International Union's boss -- who represents a sliver of the American work force -- has been the most frequent guest at the White House after he handed Barack Obama $28 million and used tens of millions more to campaign for him and his policies?
Is it a sign of pending Third World oligarchy that the president, in turn, uses that money to fund Organizing for America and deploys its activists to agitate for unions in Wisconsin?
Is it impending oligarchy when the president employs the coercive power of government to stick taxpayers (and GM stakeholders) with the bill for a Detroit union bailout or appoints a rigid union booster to the National Labor Relations Board without so much as a Senate hearing to allow "democracy" to have its say in the matter?
It should not surprise you that in Wisconsin, as is the case elsewhere, it is the oligarchs who support policies that offer parents and children more educational choices, while democracy lovers call in sick and shut down the entire government-run monopoly that offers them none.
Because, despite the chilling fairy tales of Krugman and others, public employee unions aren't revolting against corporations, power brokers, Kochs or any other villains. Right or wrong, public employee unions can only revolt against the public.
Reach columnist David Harsanyi at dharsanyi@denverpost.com.
The organizer in chief in action - little question where he stands on this matter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQj-xBH30-I
Badger52
02-25-2011, 13:54
IMHO, Krugman is a flack and a tool.Indeed; and like the rest of his ilk notably absent any counter-rhetoric when the Organizer in Chief directed that all currency-printing reactors "go to 110%!"
Their platitudes, whether "we're headed for the abyss" or "it's for the children..." makes me want to reach for a clacker.
IN dems in exile in IL; WI dems in exile in IL. If funds not used for the southern border, perhaps there's a better place to build the wall.
It was an OpEd piece and certainly every bit as politically opinionated and motivated as all the shenanigans taking place daily all over the country and being written about in similar OpEd pieces by the political right, left, middle, and assorted blue-dogs and neo-mugwumps, but this was the quoted part I found most interesting and which everyone seems to avoid mentioning in their critiques of Krugman's opinions.
“Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the department may sell any state-owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best interest of the state. Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (b).”
If that is, in fact, a verbatim measure of the bill in question, I have to wonder how many members of the Wisconsin legislature actually read the 144 page document and understand it.
Richard :munchin
Reading that particular provision of the bill, I think it gives the agency involved the ability to issue contracts at will w/o competetive bidding - and raises the spectre of a return to cronyism or nepotism in state-level government.
It also makes me - and others it seems - wonder just what else is in there. :confused:
Richard :munchin
IME, It is sometimes difficult to discern if these are the latest iterations of the language being considered - if one is not on the ground or in the loop in Wisconsin (which I'm not) - but these look to be copies of the bill language in question and amendments.
Maybe one of our members or guests familiar with Wisconsin could help.
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/data/JR1SB-11.pdf
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/data/lc_amdt/jr1sb011.pdf
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/data/jr1SB11hst.html
Back to unions - those union benefits sure seem expensive.
Oh, To Be a Teacher in Wisconsin
How can fringe benefits cost nearly as much as a worker's salary?
Answer: collective bargaining.
By ROBERT M. COSTRELL
WSJ
February 25, 2011
The showdown in Wisconsin over fringe benefits for public employees boils down to one number: 74.2. That's how many cents the public pays Milwaukee public-school teachers and other employees for retirement and health benefits for every dollar they receive in salary. The corresponding rate for employees of private firms is 24.3 cents.
Gov. Scott Walker's proposal would bring public-employee benefits closer in line with those of workers in the private sector. And to prevent benefits from reaching sky-high levels in the future, he wants to restrict collective-bargaining rights.
The average Milwaukee public-school teacher salary is $56,500, but with benefits the total package is $100,005, according to the manager of financial planning for Milwaukee public schools. When I showed these figures to a friend, she asked me a simple question: "How can fringe benefits be nearly as much as salary?" The answers can be found by unpacking the numbers in the district's budget for this fiscal year:
•Social Security and Medicare. The employer cost is 7.65% of wages, the same as in the private sector.
•State Pension. Teachers belong to the Wisconsin state pension plan. That plan requires a 6.8% employer contribution and 6.2% from the employee. However, according to the collective-bargaining agreement in place since 1996, the district pays the employees' share as well, for a total of 13%.
•Teachers' Supplemental Pension. In addition to the state pension, Milwaukee public-school teachers receive an additional pension under a 1982 collective-bargaining agreement. The district contributes an additional 4.2% of teacher salaries to cover this second pension. Teachers contribute nothing.
•Classified Pension. Most other school employees belong to the city's pension system instead of the state plan. The city plan is less expensive but here, too, according to the collective-bargaining agreement, the district pays the employees' 5.5% share.
Overall, for teachers and other employees, the district's contributions for pensions and Social Security total 22.6 cents for each dollar of salary. The corresponding figure for private industry is 13.4 cents. The divergence is greater yet for health insurance:
•Health care for current employees. Under the current collective- bargaining agreements, the school district pays the entire premium for medical and vision benefits, and over half the cost of dental coverage. These plans are extremely expensive.
This is partly because of Wisconsin's unique arrangement under which the teachers union is the sponsor of the group health-insurance plans. Not surprisingly, benefits are generous. The district's contributions for health insurance of active employees total 38.8% of wages. For private-sector workers nationwide, the average is 10.7%.
•Health insurance for retirees. This benefit is rarely offered any more in private companies, and it can be quite costly. This is especially the case for teachers in many states, because the eligibility rules of their pension plans often induce them to retire in their 50s, and Medicare does not kick in until age 65. Milwaukee's plan covers the entire premium in effect at retirement, and retirees cover only the growth in premiums after they retire.
As is commonly the case, the school district's retiree health plan has not been prefunded. It has been pay-as-you-go. This has been a disaster waiting to happen, as retirees grow in number and live longer, and active employment shrinks in districts such as Milwaukee.
For fiscal year 2011, retiree enrollment in the district health plan is 36.4% of the total. In addition to the costs of these retirees' benefits, Milwaukee is, to its credit, belatedly starting to prefund the benefits of future school retirees. In all, retiree health-insurance contributions are estimated at 12.1% of salaries (of which 1.5% is prefunded).
Overall, the school district's contributions to health insurance for employees and retirees total about 50.9 cents on top of every dollar paid in wages. Together with pension and Social Security contributions, plus a few small items, one can see how the total cost of fringe benefits reaches 74.2%.
What these numbers ultimately prove is the excessive power of collective bargaining. The teachers' main pension plan is set by the state legislature, but under the pressure of local bargaining, the employees' contribution is often pushed onto the taxpayers. In addition, collective bargaining led the Milwaukee public school district to add a supplemental pension plan—again with no employee contribution. Finally, the employees' contribution (or lack thereof) to the cost of health insurance is also collectively bargained.
As the costs of pensions and insurance escalate, the governor's proposal to restrict collective bargaining to salaries—not benefits—seems entirely reasonable."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703408604576164290717724956.html?m od=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
Mr. Costrell is professor of education reform and economics at the University of Arkansas.
Rumblyguts
02-26-2011, 20:45
I'm not sure how the numbers crunch with regards to SS, total numbers on pension etc., or the worth of the benefits package for our district. But where I'm at, Milwaukee seems to be a bit higher. I'm assuming that there are still schools in the state with lower averages and a few with higher averages.
Of note, the district here just sent out lay-off warnings to 1/5 of its teaching staff, or approximately 45 teachers. If those come to fulfillment, it will be interesting seeing how the classes work out. Some teachers are already working double loads, and at one school, the incoming kindergarten class was was at a 1:30 teacher to student ratio.
http://msd.k12.wi.us/content/look-potential-impacts
-----
Regarding the power grab aspect, there's another bill which gives the Governor what I understand to be a "preapproval power" over certain bills and departments. I'm not clear on the actual bill nor its wording.
http://badgerherald.com/news/2011/01/30/bill_would_allow_gov.php
Bill would allow governor to approve legislation before reaching floor. Critics say proposal ignores checks & balances; new Commerce Dept.
By Leah Linscheid
Sunday, January 30, 2011 5:44 p.m.
Updated Sunday, January 30, 2011 11:40:23 p.m.
Two bills proposing an expansion of the governor’s executive power over law regulation and measures to make the new commerce department entity more transparent passed through committee hearings last week at the Capitol.
Currently, the Joint Committee of the Review of Administrative Rules is responsible for determining whether certain state agencies are exceeding the scope of legislature.
The new bill requires the rules and regulations decided on by a committee to be sent to the governor for initial approval, instead of the JRAR, before a review by full Legislature, Rep. Gary Hebl, D-Sun Prairie, a member of the Committee on Judiciary and Ethics, said.
The bill would allow Gov. Scott Walker a chance to view and approve legislation before it arrives on the floor of the Senate and Assembly.
Hebl said the bill would limit the power of particular agencies to promote their own rules and regulations, particularly the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources.
In the past, the DNR — among other agencies — has promulgated rules the governor felt surpassed the intent of the legislature, he said.
The bill raised concerns Walker may become too powerful and the system of checks and balances could fail.
“This does get into danger of upsetting the balance of the separation of powers. A unique feature of the American government system is the balance of powers and the ability of each branch to check one another, and [the bill] concentrates too much power in the executive branch,” David Canon, a University of Wisconsin political science professor, said.
Badger52
02-28-2011, 06:32
Regarding the power grab aspect, there's another bill which gives the Governor what I understand to be a "preapproval power" over certain bills and departments. I'm not clear on the actual bill nor its wording.
http://badgerherald.com/news/2011/01/30/bill_would_allow_gov.php
The article from January is noteworthy in its absence of a bill cite. The author was likely speaking of Assembly Bill 8, which does grants the Gov office a review to approve administrative rules by an agency based on the agency's interpretation of an existing statute. Was the DNR a focus of that? You betcha, as they've functioned for too long as the arm of some of the "conservation-minded" lobbyists. When an agency applies a rulemaking to an existing statute that affects or restricts the conduct of the citizen they are, in essence, making new law. This one is long overdue, but has nothing to do with granting of some Imperial privilege to the governor.
Back on topic, I note by observation (and a source at the McD's up at the 'I') over the weekend that many of the charter buses were passing through enroute from Madison back to out-of-state destinations, taking with them many of the "chartered" union crowds that appeared in the capital area. (These were all returning west back across the Miss. R from whence they came.) As the song said, "thank God and Greyhound they're gone." Assessment is perhaps their union's stipend for the effort ran out or they had to get back to their real jobs & family.
Costa Mesa votes to lay off half of its workers
http://www.ocregister.com/news/city-290377-employees-million.html
While not in WI this covers public sector pentions. Interesting to read it all slowly and then focus on which employee's are funded at what level - and then who is getting laid off. It would appear that yes - in spite of all the talk they are just kicking the can down the road for a few more years.
"......While pension debt is the reason given for the layoffs, the workers on the chopping block tend to be toward the lower end of the city's pay scale.
As a group, the so-called miscellaneous employees are comparatively less of a pension burden than the police and fire departments.
There are more than twice as many miscellaneous employees as safety workers, but their pension obligations are only a third of the total unfunded liability - $39.1 million out of $130.8 million.
The surcharge the city effectively pays on every salary is higher for public safety workers than for other city employees. It's 40 percent for fire and 38 percent for police, but 18.5 percent for the "miscellaneous" city workers......"
Public sector employers (cities, counties, state and Federal) are going to have to change the way pensions are funded - or else..............
alright4u
03-03-2011, 05:59
The problem is how these plans are set up and funded. Add who manages them at state level.
I hope states go to defined contribution plans like most Corp. have. Defined benefit plans are not realistic.
An interesting and thoughtful blog on the matter(s) up in North Cheddar.
Scholar As Citizen
http://scholarcitizen.williamcronon.net/
Richard :munchin
An interesting and thoughtful blog on the matter(s) up in North Cheddar.
Scholar As Citizen
http://scholarcitizen.williamcronon.net/
Richard :munchin
Cronon is an employee of a public college. The question appears to be what did he do with public property - and on the public dime.
Squealin' like a stuck pig.
greenberetTFS
03-30-2011, 13:14
Wonder what kind of impact will health care reform have and what would it do to these figures?......:confused: Just asking......:confused:
Big Teddy :munchin