View Full Version : Yemen - protests
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110203/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_yemen
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110203/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_yemen
OK,, Why did you post this link???
Individuals on this site engage in conversations, for entertainment, for education, and for arguments.
You don't throw up posts to see if they stick to the wall..
State your opinion, start an argument, laugh or don't post...
:mad:
Sorry, I forgot to add my comments. So it looks like Egypt is becoming an example for other groups to initiate change but whether it is for good of the US or not remains to be seen.
Sorry, I forgot to add my comments. So it looks like Egypt is becoming an example for other groups to initiate change but whether it is for good of the US or not remains to be seen.
Remains to be seen???????????
This is the story folks should be reading.
http://en.rian.ru/world/20110203/162433368.html
"Egypt's banned Muslim Brotherhood movement has unveiled its plans to scrap a peace treaty with Israel if it comes to power, a deputy leader said in an interview with NHK TV.
Rashad al-Bayoumi said the peace treaty with Israel will be abolished after a provisional government is formed by the movement and other Egypt's opposition parties.
"After President Mubarak steps down and a provisional government is formed, there is a need to dissolve the peace treaty with Israel," al-Bayoumi said........"
Don't look for this to get a lot of play in the US press.
Pete,
I was talking about Yemen. There is a general disdain of Egyptian populace towards Israel but is that the same sentiment amongst common Yemenis? Anyone been to Yemen here and interacted with the population?
Pete,
I was talking about Yemen. There is a general disdain of Egyptian populace towards Israel but is that the same sentiment amongst common Yemenis? Anyone been to Yemen here and interacted with the population?
It don't matter what the common folks want. The Muslim Brotherhood is starting to flex it's muscles - and they and their sub units are all over.
While events appear to be moving fast right now and everyone has that warm and fuzzy "Democratic" feeling look to the long term - like Hamas, the MB is going to cement itself in power in a number of countries.
In the next war between the Muslim Nations and Israel who do we back? Israel or Egypt?
The Reaper
02-03-2011, 18:22
IMHO, the Yemenis make the MB look like the Girl Scouts.
They are extremists and hate the Israelis (and us).
TR
incarcerated
02-03-2011, 19:11
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110203/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_yemen
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=373500&postcount=2
IMHO, the Yemenis make the MB look like the Girl Scouts.
They are extremists and hate the Israelis (and us).
TR
Our relationship with Israel has always been confusing to me. I understand the arguments anchored on strategic partnerships/political pull at home/preventing another Holocaust. However, I fail to see how our (the USA’s) unqualified loyalty and defense of an aggressive/expensive Jewish state is helping our national security, regional stability, or, for that matter, Israelis! (Note: If I have to say this - I am not suggesting that we should allow for the destruction of Israel or ignore the threat of extremism.)
IMHO this article raises some valid points:
http://www.presstv.ir/usdetail/163476.html
More broadly, our policy decisions vis-a-vis the Middle East/Northern Africa/Israel/etc are conspicuously short sited. For example: It does not take an expert in international relations to understand that supporting a single leader (especially a dictatorial one) is not sustainable for, at the very least, no other reason than he will eventually die.
I fail to see how our (the USA’s) unqualified loyalty and defense of an aggressive/expensive Jewish state is helping our national security, regional stability, or, for that matter, Israelis!
Maybe if the religion of peace would leave Israel the hell alone regional stability, or, for that matter, Israelis would be better off and not so “aggressive/expensive”.
(Note: If I have to say this - I am not suggesting that we should allow for the destruction of Israel or ignore the threat of extremism.)
Yes you have to say that, because that is exactly what islam wants to do to Israel.
Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
Yes you have to say that, because that is exactly what [I]slam wants to do to Israel.
1. I'm not Muslim, so I'm not sure why what "Islam wants" would have any bearing on why I "have to say that." I was making a personal declaration (for those that may have been unsure about the nature of my comments) that I didn't want to see genocide. HOWEVER--If we're going to anchor our judgment of a people on the contents of their religious texts, Jews and Christians are no slouches in the "destroy all thine enemies" department.
Maybe if the religion of peace would leave Israel the hell alone
2. Could you expand on this? I'm not sure what you mean. Who or what is the "religion of peace"?
1. I'm not Muslim, so I'm not sure why what "Islam wants" would have any bearing on why I "have to say that." I was making a personal declaration (for those that may have been unsure about the nature of my comments) that I didn't want to see genocide. HOWEVER--If we're going to anchor our judgment of a people on the contents of their religious texts, Jews and Christians are no slouches in the "destroy all thine enemies" department.
2. Could you expand on this? I'm not sure what you mean. Who or what is the "religion of peace"?
Dude, you better get up to speed real quick. Your second statement, "Who or what is the "religion of peace"?" shows you have not been paying too much attention to the news the past few years.
Now go back and follow the link in post # 4 of this thread. Do you see any benefit to peace in the region with throwing out a peace treaty that has kept the peace for 30 years along the Egypt/Israel border - well, in a fashion.
With the removal of our MFO forces from the border area do you think that will make things more calm?
How long before rockets are launched into Israel from the area and when asked the MB leaders of Egypt shrug and say "I don't know"?
How will the MB in charge of the border crossing into Gaza inpact weapons smuggling?
Things are going to get very, very interesting after the next election in Egypt.
Dude, you better get up to speed real quick. Your second statement, "Who or what is the "religion of peace"?" shows you have not been paying too much attention to the news the past few years.
Pete- I understand Todd is using RoP to refer to those practicing Islam. Just wanted him to nail it down a little bit. Muslims in general? MB? Al Qaeda? Egyptians? Palestinians? "Religion of Peace" is pretty blanket--in the same vein as phrases like "The American People."
Your points about the borders and dissolution of a long standing treaty are well taken. However, as you say, the peace has been kept "in a fashion." I am suggesting only that we consider new strategies/solutions and not simply repeat what has already been tried. ("We" meaning whoever is making the applicable foreign policy decisions at that moment)
Pete- I understand Todd is using RoP to refer to those practicing Islam.............
You are wrong in that statement.
Do research on the term before claiming somebody like Todd uses it to refer to those practicing Islam.
You are wrong in that statement.
Do research on the term before claiming somebody like Todd uses it to refer to those practicing Islam.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/AboutSite.htm
Am I on the right track? This is what I was refering to earlier.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/AboutSite.htm
Am I on the right track? This is what I was refering to earlier.
No
You are going the wrong direction.
For you to come on this board and try to debate mid east religion & policy but don't know why we use the term "religion of peace" says something about the amount of - err - knowledge you have on this subject.
Best to stop now before you get in over your head.
Am I on the right track? En Dub--
From one back bencher to another: the search button is your friend!
The discussions over Islam, Muslims, and GWOT on this BB arc back to 2004. By my count, there are no fewer than eight positions on these interrelated topics. At times, the discussion is friendly, at others, quite tense.
Your jumping into the deep end of the fray and tossing around your POV without having done your due diligence by using the search button is not, IMO, the way to go.
Also, if you're going to get on folks for over generalizing about Muslims, maybe you should not over generalize yourself.
Finally, you do yourself no favors with glib comments like "It does not take an expert in international relations to understand that supporting a single leader (especially a dictatorial one) is not sustainable for, at the very least, no other reason than he will eventually die."
Just my two cents.
En Dub--
Your jumping into the deep end of the fray and tossing around your POV without having done your due diligence by using the search button is not, IMO, the way to go.
Trackin'
1. I'm not Muslim, so I'm not sure why what "Islam wants" would have any bearing on why I "have to say that." I was making a personal declaration (for those that may have been unsure about the nature of my comments) that I didn't want to see genocide.
I was unsure about the nature of your comment, (disadvantage of the internet) but if we end our loyalty and defense of Israel…..well “it doesn’t take an expert in international relations to understand”.
HOWEVER--If we're going to anchor our judgment of a people on the contents of their religious texts, Jews and Christians are no slouches in the "destroy all thine enemies" department.
You said that:rolleyes:, then asked this::eek:
2. Could you expand on this? I'm not sure what you mean. Who or what is the
"religion of peace"?
I don’t think I have to add to what others have already said.
nw4445 said Our relationship with Israel has always been confusing to me.
Two deployments in the Middle East and working as an aide on the "Hill". I would wager you probably understand our relationship with Israel. Why the ruse?
Is Yemen becoming the next Afghanistan? Both countries appear to be fragile states with unpopular leaders confronting open or incipient rebellion (in the case of Yemen, from two very different parts of the country) and showing a shaky resolve about taking on the terrorist threat. In both cases, concerned outsiders are unsure of what to do, although there are no outside military forces intervening in Yemen. Comparisons can be useful in taking the measure of a little-understood country such as Yemen, but even more useful would be a readable history that includes current, on-the-ground snapshot of the country and its people. This Clark achieves, with a political history of Yemen from the sixteenth century to the present, followed by reportage based on her meetings with representative Yemenis, both in the government and in the opposition. Clark leans toward concluding that outsiders should proceed with caution. To evoke another comparison, a half century ago, Egyptian military intervention soon produced the gibe that Yemen was Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser’s Vietnam.
Conditions in Yemen for ousting another elderly strongman and his big, greedy family after decades of misrule are not proving as favorable as one might expect, and Mr. Saleh continues to excel at the business of ruling Yemen, the Arab world’s poorest country, a task which he has often unflatteringly likened to “dancing on the heads of snakes.”
Victoria Clark - http://www.foreignaffairs.com/author/victoria-clark
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
Why Yemen Won’t Fall
Victoria Clark, NYT, 4 fEB 2011
ON and off for the past few weeks, thousands of youths draped in pink scarves and ribbons have been out protesting in Yemen’s capital, Sana, making it look as if that country is next in line after Tunisia and perhaps Egypt for regime change. But conditions in Yemen for ousting another elderly strongman and his big, greedy family after decades of misrule are not proving as favorable as one might expect.
Indeed, Ali Abdullah Saleh — a former army officer who has been president since 1978, when his predecessor was assassinated by means of an exploding suitcase — is proving less of a klutz than his Egyptian counterpart, Hosni Mubarak. Mr. Saleh continues to excel at the business of ruling Yemen, the Arab world’s poorest country, a task which he has often unflatteringly likened to “dancing on the heads of snakes.” Yet, since Tunisians sent their longtime president, Zine el-Abidine Ben Ali, packing, Mr. Saleh has been obliged to change his dance steps and quicken his pace; he has dropped income taxes, given out food subsidies and promised to raise the salaries of soldiers and civil servants and to provide jobs to college graduates.
On Wednesday, Mr. Saleh made two other vitally important political concessions: he would not tamper with the Constitution in order to extend his rule beyond 2013, nor would he permit his son Ahmed to succeed him. In return, he asked the alliance of opposition parties and civil society movements to call off a rally planned for the next day.
They did not, but the approximately 40,000-strong gathering at Sana University was an orderly affair. There were no angrily shouted demands that Mr. Saleh resign, no attempts to confront hastily mustered pro-Saleh supporters, no real efforts by the antigovernment forces to exploit the climate of anger and frustration generated by events in Tunisia and Egypt. Security guards at the university checked for weapons, turning away young men who had shown up armed with planks of wood. And it was all over by lunchtime, when rally organizers politely requested that participants roll up their banners and go home.
Given that President Saleh in 2005 pledged not to run again, and then changed his mind, trusting him to keep these latest promises is going to require generosity and immense restraint. A former government minister recently told me: “When he speaks to you he gives you his full attention and you are the only person in his world. He is very, very intelligent and he has a unique memory and he is not a bloodthirsty person — but he is one of the best liars on this earth.”
In the south of the country, where a separatist movement has been simmering for four years, there is likely to be pressure to ignore Mr. Saleh’s concessions and prolong the confrontation. The merger in 1990 of the Yemen Arab Republic in the north — home to Mr. Saleh and the tribes who have supported him in power — and the People’s Democratic Republic of Yemen has proved a disaster for the south. Southerners have suffered a land grab at the hands of their generally richer and more rapacious northern brothers. What’s more, after 128 years as separate entities (the south under British colonial rule and then homegrown Marxism, the north as a backward theocracy and then a military republic), the two regions’ manners, customs, education and values are not the same.
Another anti-Saleh constituency is the Zaidi Shiites, in the northwest, whose sporadically flaring insurgency has been a thorn in the regime’s side for the past six years. The lively Yemen affiliate of Al Qaeda is Mr. Saleh’s sworn enemy too, and though the group’s plots against him have so far failed, it would be guaranteed to take advantage of any power vacuum ensuing from his removal. Finally, there are the young, the students and the unemployed. Moved and excited by events in Tunisia and Egypt, they may not be as easy to control in the weeks to come as they have proved so far.
Abdul Ghani al-Iryani, a prominent political commentator in Sana, told me that he believes Mr. Saleh will have to keep his promises this time: “The rules of the game have changed — he cannot not honor his word this time. Tunisia and Egypt have raised the bar.” He thinks Mr. Saleh has six months to prove himself trustworthy. At the end of that time, revenues from his two main sources — Saudi aid and minor oil exports — will not be enough to foot the civil service wage bill, or the diesel and food subsidies.
Then he will not be worrying about polite opposition politicians but more likely about bread-rioters, hungry and unmanageable, exploding into violence.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/05/opinion/05clark.html?_r=1&hpw
"Clashes in Yemen as thousands rally against government"
http://blogs.voanews.com/breaking-news/2011/02/12/clashes-in-yemen-as-thousands-rally-against-government/
"Thousands of protesters gathered in Yemen's capital, Sana'a, Saturday to celebrate the resignation of Egyptian leader Hosni Mubarak and call for their own president, Ali Abdullah Saleh, to step down................"
Am I on the right track?
This may be better...
TRUCES
o9. 16 (2) Truces are permissible, not obligatory…..
…..for it is a matter of gravest consequence because it entails the nonperformance of JIHAD….
There must be some interest served in making a truce other than mere preservation of the status quo. Allah Most High says,
..So do not be fainthearted and call for peace, when it is you who are the uppermost” (Koran 47:35)
Interests that justify making a truce are such things as Muslim weakness because of lack of numbers or material, or the hope of an enemy becoming Muslim, for the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) made a truce in the year Mecca was liberated with Safwan ibn Umayya for four months in hope that he would become Muslim, and he entered Islam before his time was up.
If the Muslims are weak, a truce may be made for ten years if necessary…
(Reliance of the Traveller: A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law - pgs 604-605)
Source: http://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Traveller-Classic-Islamic-Al-Salik/dp/0915957728
Or this...
War and Peace - and Deceit - in Islam
by Raymond Ibrahim
February 12, 2009
Read it here: http://www.raymondibrahim.com/7347/war-and-peace-and-deceit-in-islam
:munchin
Friends...enemies...relatives...neighbors...usw...
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
Tanks Deploy In Sanaa As Top Army General Defects
AP, 21 Mar 2011
Three army commanders, including a top general, defected Monday to the opposition calling for President Ali Abdullah Saleh to step down as army tanks and armored vehicles deployed in the streets of the Yemeni capital.
The most senior of the three officers is Maj. Gen. Ali Mohsen al-Ahmar, a longtime confidante of Saleh and commander of the army's powerful 1st Armored Division. Units of the division deployed Monday in a major square in Sanaa where protesters have been camping out to call for Saleh to step down.
All three officers belong to Saleh's Hashid tribe, which called on Saleh to step down on Sunday — dealing his desperate attempts to cling on to power a serious blow.
The two others are Mohammed Ali Mohsen and Hameed al-Qusaibi, who both have the rank of brigadier.
News of the defections came one day after crowds flooded cities and towns across Yemen to mourn dozens of protesters killed Friday when Saleh's security forces opened fire from rooftops on a demonstration in Sanaa.
Al-Ahmar has been a close confidante to Saleh for most of the 32 years the Yemeni president has been in power. He is a veteran of the 1994 civil war that saw Saleh's army suppress an attempt by southern Yemen to secede four years after the two parts of the impoverished Arab nation united. The south had until then been a separate nation. Al-Ahmar also fought in recent years against Shiite rebels in the north of the country.
Al-Ahmar announced his defection in a message delivered by a close aide to the protest leaders at the Sanaa square that has for weeks been the epicenter of their movement.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110321/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_yemen
Mr Furious
03-21-2011, 06:57
IMO - pretty good article and assessment posted last week in SWJ ;) :
http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2011/03/breaking-the-camels-back/