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MG*
02-03-2011, 14:47
Good afternoon,

I've been a member of this site for quite some time and have searched the forums for an answer to my question, though I haven't found it. Though it may sound rather generic, it's subtle in its uniqueness.

I'm currently dealing with a recruiter. My lifelong goal has been to become an 18A officer. I've recently graduated from college with a 3.2 and a double major. I've studied abroad multiple times and speak French fluently. I'm qualified to be an officer.

From my own research, I've learned that to become an 18A, one's best shot is to become an infantry officer and subsequently put in a packet for SFAS.

I've been told this is false and that I don't stand a chance.

My recruiter tells me that most people without 3.5 as a GPA aren't getting accepted, and that I wouldn't have a shot, with 95% certainty. He tells me that my best chance is to go in enlisted as an 18xray, do my time, and then put in a packet for OCS once I've made it to an ODA. He says the majority of 18As were once enlisted men.

I don't know if he's being honest or not, or if his suggested route is the best one.

I'd prefer to be an officer first. I know I'm qualified and I trust and believe in myself.

Should I find another recruiter, is he being honest with me regarding my OCS chances, and is his recommended path to becoming an 18A truly the best one?

Thanks, I appreciate it.

-Jim

Richard
02-03-2011, 15:00
I have my own opinions on it...but I'd ask these guys if I was you.

http://www.bragg.army.mil/sorb/

Richard :munchin

Deadhead 63A1
02-03-2011, 15:00
He says the majority of 18As were once enlisted men.

He is dead wrong and apparently either has no idea what he's talking about on this point or is blowing smoke up your ass.

1stindoor
02-03-2011, 15:03
Short answer...he's trying to fill his enlisted numbers and not his officer numbers.

Long answer...there are many paths to becoming an SF Soldier, whether enlisted or officer. However, in my not so humble opinion if you want to be an 18A, I think you would be best served by doing your time first as a combat arms officer. Infantry, Artillery, Armor,...did I mention Infantry?

If you enlist, whether as an 18X or underwater messkit repairmen, you will do your time in Basic, AIT, Jumpschool, etc. Time in your unit, then apply to OCS, then go to OCS if selected, then you'll be a 2LT in the regular Army, Infantry, Artillery, Armor, Finance, Messkit Repair whatever (I did say Infantry...right?) and once you've done your time there you can put in a packet for SFAS.

Here's what your recruiter may not be telling you...Officers get one...maybe two chances to make it through.

Good luck to you.

1stindoor
02-03-2011, 15:04
See this is what happens when I'm getting long winded...everyone else jumps in line.

Richard
02-03-2011, 15:12
See this is what happens when I'm getting long winded...everyone else jumps in line.

Blah...blah...blah...:D

Richard :munchin

JJ_BPK
02-03-2011, 16:33
See this is what happens when I'm getting long winded...everyone else jumps in line.

I think you forgot to mention the bit about Infantry..

:munchin

MG*
02-03-2011, 17:18
...Infantry? Never heard of that...does it involve saving babies when they waywardly climb up trees? Because that sounds like a sexy job that the ladies would definitely be into. :rolleyes:

My recruiter definitely smells like a herring, I'd been suspicious of his motives and experience.

I'll get in contact with SORB and gather further information and resolve the issue on my own, be it finding a new recruiter or speaking with my current recruiter's CO.

Thanks for the help, much appreciated, I hope to one day see you out there after I finish my time as a renaissance messkit-repair-infantryman.

-Jim

The Reaper
02-03-2011, 17:21
You aren't going to become eligible to try out for an 18A position for a while, and I am tired of hearing people who have not even been commissioned yet planning on it.

If you get a commission, and do an exceptional job, you MIGHT get a shot.

Otherwise, the question is moot and has been asked before. Search for some variant of SF officer versus enlisted.

How bad do you want it? Badly enough to do your homework?

TR

MG*
02-03-2011, 17:31
I want it more than anything, and I know I'll get where I want to be if I keep my mind on my task and never hesitate. I also know that if I don't take my best shot, I'll miss, so I intend to plan my move before I act.

There are many ways to do homework. I have done mine, and have read books on SF and forum posts, but the only way for me to find out the current state of affairs was to directly ask those who are the most knowledgeable.

Thanks again.

-Jim

CSB
02-03-2011, 22:29
Here's what your recruiter may not be telling you...Officers get one...maybe two chances to make it through.


If you get a commission, and do an exceptional job, you MIGHT get a shot.


A very unscientific comparison with published statistics and knowledge of T.O.E.:

More men have stood on top of Mount Everest than have ever commanded a Special Forces Operational Detachment Alpha for three or more years.

To be entrusted with the command of a Special Forces A Team is much like being selected to be a member of the Blue Angels, or the Golden Knights. It is a once in a lifetime achievement. Many are called and few are chosen. Actual command time is limited, and variations in the great Mandela of Life and Mother Army sometimes means that men with excellent qualifications and desire are non-selected.

Any member of this board ... or any recruiter ... who says "do this, and do that ... and you will be selected at SFAS, complete the Q course to be awarded MOS 18A, and be in command of an A Team," IS LYING TO YOU.

If you seek Special Forces, you must embark on a lifetime of service to your country and to the United States Army. You may seek, but you might not find what you desire. It is your honest, diligent service that is required of you. It may be that your path leads to a Q course and a Green Beret, but your path may lead elsewhere, through no fault of your own. Your service is needed, and if you have the ability please give your country your best efforts in any position for which you are qualified.

wet dog
02-04-2011, 13:36
...My lifelong goal has been to become an 18A officer. I've recently graduated from college with a 3.2 and a double major. I've studied abroad multiple times and speak French fluently. I'm qualified to be an officer.

-Jim

Not Yet. You may be eligable to be an officer, as almost everyone on an ODA is also, but you're not there yet.

Jim - I wasn't going to chime in, given these are Officer questions, better answered by officers. The fact is, I'm not an officer and neither are you, but since my SF NCO brothers have already begun, I'll throw in my $0.02

"What is it you want to do?" Don't answer that, you already have. I'm just digging a little deeper, for if you are going to lead one of my beloved ODAs, I feel I have a few qualifications that allows me to know a potential SF officer when I see him.

Get in the officer ranks by best means possible, or just sign up enlisted. You might find yourself in the 82nd, a Ranger Batt., or the Old Guard Arlington National Cemetery.

Here is a little secret, so be sure not to tell anyone, this is just between you and I. Us NCO types are known to get things done, in fact, it's well known that we take care of our officers too. All you have to do, is serve, serve well, do well in all assignments.

We will find you. Now make the decision to apply for OCS or enlist, be decisive, but make it quick.

Dusty
02-04-2011, 13:41
If you make it as an 18A, never forget that you are in your slot as a guest of the Team.

wet dog
02-04-2011, 13:42
If you make it as an 18A, never forget that you are in your slot as a guest of the Team.

Dusty, that's just cold, (knuckle bump)! How are you these days?

Dusty
02-04-2011, 13:58
Dusty, that's just cold, (knuckle bump)! How are you these days?

Cold, Bro. And it's snowing again. The Caribou are moving in.:D

Dozer523
02-04-2011, 21:59
If you make it as an 18A, never forget that you are in your slot as a guest of the Team.we were mascots. (not even funny)
Our job was to "get out of the way". (not even funny)
Our other job was to "take the blame". (true but, not even funny)

Dusty . . . this summer we're going out on the boat. I'm going to drink you under the table, and then push you over board! .

Often times the Detachment Commander is there to "tap the tiller' and maintain the course. . . nudge the throttle a tad . . . and sometimes drop an anchor. (And young man, when that needs to happen you better be able to do it.)

We're like control rods in nuclear reactors.

Oh yeah. NEVER FORGET! The Detachment Commander is responsible for everything that happens or fails to happen on the team.

Buffalobob
02-04-2011, 22:08
My lifelong goal has been to become an 18A officer. I've recently graduated from college with a 3.2 and a double major. I've studied abroad multiple times and speak French fluently. I'm qualified to be an officer.

So I guess none of the universities were offering ROTC. I find it strange that a person who has a lifelong ambition to be an army officer would have graduated without a commission.

Me and all three of my brothers went through ROTC. It seems like the most probable route a person would go through if one had a life long ambition. The two of us who wished for it, served on ODAs. Strange how that worked out for us by simply signing up for ROTC as a freshman. Of course we didn't go dicking off all over Europe studying abroad, we just buckled down and got our degrees and commission.

Richard
02-04-2011, 22:11
We're like control rods in nuclear reactors.

Yep.

Richard :munchin

wet dog
02-04-2011, 22:17
He'll figure it out.....

alright4u
02-04-2011, 23:33
You aren't going to become eligible to try out for an 18A position for a while, and I am tired of hearing people who have not even been commissioned yet planning on it.

If you get a commission, and do an exceptional job, you MIGHT get a shot.

Otherwise, the question is moot and has been asked before. Search for some variant of SF officer versus enlisted.

How bad do you want it? Badly enough to do your homework?

TR

If you are not ROTC, you will have to enlist. Concentrate on BCT.

alright4u
02-04-2011, 23:39
So I guess none of the universities were offering ROTC. I find it strange that a person who has a lifelong ambition to be an army officer would have graduated without a commission.

Me and all three of my brothers went through ROTC. It seems like the most probable route a person would go through if one had a life long ambition. The two of us who wished for it, served on ODAs. Strange how that worked out for us by simply signing up for ROTC as a freshman. Of course we didn't go dicking off all over Europe studying abroad, we just buckled down and got our degrees and commission.

You men did it the way people who have a realistic dream also make a realistic plan and follow it to reach their goal.

wet dog
02-04-2011, 23:58
You men did it the way people who have a realistic dream also make a realistic plan and follow it to reach their goal.

It's all that officer stuff they teach, "Have a plan to follow a plan, just in the event the first plan doesn't work plan."

alright4u
02-05-2011, 01:48
It's all that officer stuff they teach, "Have a plan to follow a plan, just in the event the first plan doesn't work plan."

I went in as a PVT E1. BCT, AIT, OCS, ABN, etc. No plan. My dream was not being an officer. It was not the Army. It was a pro baseball player. Then lawyer.

uplink5
02-05-2011, 01:58
I went in as a PVT E1. BCT, AIT, OCS, ABN, etc. No plan. My dream was not being an officer. It was not the Army. It was a pro baseball player. Then lawyer.

Funny how things have a way of turning out. Ultimately,as long as we don't have any regrets then we're doing well.

I have two regrets.....letting that little girl get away, and selling the 67 GTO. The GTO hurts the most....:boohoo

wet dog
02-05-2011, 03:20
....and selling the 67 GTO. The GTO hurts the most....:boohoo

Little brother, since you retire real soon, a gift.

I've got (2) barracudas, put them together, you could have one real nice car, or how about a 56 pro-street? Better yet, a 38 Dodge!

All need work, but all would make a real nice ride.

All you have to do is,...

well, let's talk.

-------- BT

alright4u - pro ball would have paid better than SF, but SF was much more rewarding, agreed?

Dusty
02-05-2011, 03:44
The Detachment Commander is responsible for everything that happens or fails to happen on the team.

In all seriousness, I personally witnessed more than one case in which the decision made by the Team Leader prevented big scratch that HUGE trouble for everybody else on the detachment.

An ODA can't operate without a frontal lobe.

greenberetTFS
02-05-2011, 07:05
In all seriousness, I personally witnessed more than one case in which the decision made by the Team Leader prevented big scratch that HUGE trouble for everybody else on the detachment.

An ODA can't operate without a frontal lobe.

Dusty,

You know I never realized the many SF officers that came in as PVT 2,remarkable.....;)

Big Teddy :munchin

ZonieDiver
02-05-2011, 08:52
I think our young jedi's basic problem is this:

oksooner
02-05-2011, 14:43
So I guess none of the universities were offering ROTC. I find it strange that a person who has a lifelong ambition to be an army officer would have graduated without a commission.

Me and all three of my brothers went through ROTC. It seems like the most probable route a person would go through if one had a life long ambition. The two of us who wished for it, served on ODAs. Strange how that worked out for us by simply signing up for ROTC as a freshman. Of course we didn't go dicking off all over Europe studying abroad, we just buckled down and got our degrees and commission.

just throwing it out there, some universities require studying abroad for certain majors.

czechsix
02-09-2011, 13:30
just throwing it out there, some universities require studying abroad for certain majors.

Correct. I am an International Business major with minors in German and Military Science and my degree required me to study abroad in a German speaking country. I just got back from Austria in December. That being said, I had to cut through a lot of red tape but my program approved me to go (even paid for my plane ticket) and I am commissioning as an 11A this May. It is definitely possible to squeeze a semester abroad in there.

Snaquebite
02-09-2011, 13:46
If you make it as an 18A, never forget that you are in your slot as a guest of the Team.

Funny you should mention that. I had 3 different CO's as a Compnay SGM. All let me talk to all incoming officers. I'd give my little spiel, let them talk a bit and on their way out my last comment would be..."Remember Sir, these guys live here, you're just visiting." Had a few that took exception, only to get chewed out by the CO.

Richard
02-09-2011, 17:26
"Remember Sir, these guys live here, you're just visiting."

That reminds me of this one:

Five cannibals were employed by the 5th SFG at an A Camp in the Central Highlands as scouts and translators during the Vietnam War. When the 5th SFG CDR flew in to personally welcome the cannibals for joining in the fight against the communists, he said, "You're all part of our team now. We will compensate you well for your services and you can eat any of the rations that the Army is eating. But please don't indulge yourselves by eating any soldiers."

The cannibals looked at each other, shrugged, and promised.

One month later the Colonel returned. Gathering the cannibals together, he said, "You're all working very hard and I'm very satisfied with all of you. However, one of our NCOs has disappeared. Do any of you know what happened to him?"

The cannibals all shook their heads 'no' and denied knowing anything about the missing SF NCO.

After the Colonel left to return to Nha Trang and the cannibals had returned to their living quarters, the leader turned to the others and said, "OK - which of you idiots ate the Sergeant?"

A hand raised hesitantly, to which the leader of the cannibals barked, "You fool! For four weeks we've been eating Lieutenants, Captains, and Majors to our hearts content...and no one noticed anything. And then YOU had to go and eat an NCO!"

And so it goes...;)

Richard :munchin

Utah Bob
02-14-2011, 19:53
I want it more than anything

Ask yourself one question...
Why?

greenberetTFS
02-15-2011, 08:10
That reminds me of this one:

Five cannibals were employed by the 5th SFG at an A Camp in the Central Highlands as scouts and translators during the Vietnam War. When the 5th SFG CDR flew in to personally welcome the cannibals for joining in the fight against the communists, he said, "You're all part of our team now. We will compensate you well for your services and you can eat any of the rations that the Army is eating. But please don't indulge yourselves by eating any soldiers."

The cannibals looked at each other, shrugged, and promised.

One month later the Colonel returned. Gathering the cannibals together, he said, "You're all working very hard and I'm very satisfied with all of you. However, one of our NCOs has disappeared. Do any of you know what happened to him?"

The cannibals all shook their heads 'no' and denied knowing anything about the missing SF NCO.


After the Colonel left to return to Nha Trang and the cannibals had returned to their living quarters, the leader turned to the others and said, "OK - which of you idiots ate the Sergeant?"

A hand raised hesitantly, to which the leader of the cannibals barked, "You fool! For four weeks we've been eating Lieutenants, Captains, and Majors to our hearts content...and no one noticed anything. And then YOU had to go and eat an NCO!"

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

;););)

Big Teddy

goon175
02-19-2011, 00:14
Hate to say it, but a 3.2 GPA is not competitive for an initial enlistment into OCS. 2 years ago, heck maybe even a year ago, yes, you would have been good to go. The army today has no shortage of officer applicants, and thus can be very selective. Ask your recruiter to provide the last OCS board selection statistics for your area, it will have the lowest GPA accepted and the average GPA selected. Then you will know for sure if you are getting jerked around. My advice, if you really want to be an officer first, apply for OCS anyway (they can't not let you apply), if you make it, great, if not then you can enlist and apply for OCS down the road with some enlisted experience under your belt.

TKim
02-19-2011, 03:07
To echo what goon175 stated.

I recently just finished going through the Accession Process through ROTC -- granted it might be a little different than straight enlisting and going through OCS, but take it for what its worth.

We had guys with 3.5's not get awarded even an Active Duty commission, so while the 3.2 is something to be proud of, don't automatically assume that it'll hold that much weight.

Also, being a chairborne ranger by reading up a bunch of crap you found on Google does not "qualify" you to become an officer, so don't go around spouting out that you are. Shit, I'm not even sure that some guys graduating in my class and receiving their commission with me in May are really qualified to be an officer. While the Officer Candidate process isn't exactly the toughest of courses to make it through, this isn't just a civi job where meeting a checklist of criteria simply "qualifies" you for the job.

If becoming an 18A really is your "lifelong dream," then why not sign an 18x contract, do your time in the enlisted world, then put in an OCS packet when the time comes/you actually know what the job actually entails? Hell, that's the route I wanted to take -- so much for that.

MG*
05-21-2011, 18:21
Thanks for all of the information and constructive criticism...

After much thought I've decided to seek an 18x contract and enlist.

Since I plan to do at least 20 years in the Army, I'd like to see both sides of the coin and gain as much experience as I can before going after a commission. After my first contract term is up I'll put in my packet for OCS and go to the dark side.

Whew...now that the hard part's over I just have to get selected at SFAS... :rolleyes:

-Jim

Dozer523
05-21-2011, 23:32
[QUOTE=MG*;394542] Since I plan to do at least 20 years in the Army, [QUOTE]

20 years is a long time, pace yourself. It'll go by in a blink.

1stindoor
05-23-2011, 08:49
Since I plan to do at least 20 years in the Army,

Big talk for someone that hasn't completed 20 days yet. Let me be the same buzz kill for you as I was for my son, who's looking to enlist. You can "plan" all you want...make sure you have a back up plan when life throws you a curve ball. Some things to consider...
1. You're not medically qualified...you're at the same place you are now.
2. You don't make it through Basic...welcome to civilian life.
3. You don't get selected...you're now an 11B.
4. You get selected but break your back on a jump going through the Q course...you're now being medically chaptered.
5. You get through basic, AIT, SFAS, SFQC, HALO, CDQC, and every other cool-guy school...and on your first deployment you loose your legs...at least you get some VA benefits.

Too many guys in your age bracket have their "goal" in mind...but no idea what to do if things don't go their way.

MG*
05-23-2011, 11:15
Big talk for someone that hasn't completed 20 days yet. Let me be the same buzz kill for you as I was for my son, who's looking to enlist. You can "plan" all you want...make sure you have a back up plan when life throws you a curve ball. Some things to consider...
1. You're not medically qualified...you're at the same place you are now.
2. You don't make it through Basic...welcome to civilian life.
3. You don't get selected...you're now an 11B.
4. You get selected but break your back on a jump going through the Q course...you're now being medically chaptered.
5. You get through basic, AIT, SFAS, SFQC, HALO, CDQC, and every other cool-guy school...and on your first deployment you loose your legs...at least you get some VA benefits.

Too many guys in your age bracket have their "goal" in mind...but no idea what to do if things don't go their way.


You're right and thanks for the gut check. I should definitely have a backup plan and not be too cocky. I just tend to be a bit type A and optimistic and sometimes that leads to me thinking too big. I'll focus on the closest target from here on out.

-Jim

1stindoor
05-23-2011, 11:48
You're right and thanks for the gut check. I should definitely have a backup plan and not be too cocky. I just tend to be a bit type A and optimistic and sometimes that leads to me thinking too big. I'll focus on the closest target from here on out.

-Jim

Good luck to you. Let us know how you're progressing along your journey.

MG*
09-01-2011, 12:13
Good afternoon,

Just to let you all know, I enlisted today as an 18X and my ship date is in March. Thanks for all of the help and useful information that this site continues to provide. I'm looking forward to taking these interim months to make sure that my final preparations for selection are top notch. I'll post on this thread from time to time, most likely after I graduate from each school.

-Jim

P.S. For any 18Xers that read this, the order of operations regarding schools has been changed; you will go to Basic + Infantry AIT, then SOPC (where you will be screened for progression), and then if and only if you make it through SOPC will you go to airborne and then SFAS. If you do not make it through the prep course, airborne is no longer guaranteed.

JJ_BPK
09-01-2011, 12:16
Good afternoon,

Just to let you all know, I enlisted today as an 18X and my ship date is in March.
-Jim



Congratulations,, Now go out and do 500 flutter kicks.. :D

1stindoor
09-01-2011, 14:13
Good afternoon,

Just to let you all know, I enlisted today as an 18X and my ship date is in March. Thanks for all of the help and useful information that this site continues to provide. I'm looking forward to taking these interim months to make sure that my final preparations for selection are top notch. I'll post on this thread from time to time, most likely after I graduate from each school.

-Jim

P.S. For any 18Xers that read this, the order of operations regarding schools has been changed; you will go to Basic + Infantry AIT, then SOPC (where you will be screened for progression), and then if and only if you make it through SOPC will you go to airborne and then SFAS. If you do not make it through the prep course, airborne is no longer guaranteed.

Congrats, thanks for stepping up...good luck and thank you for updating the future 18Xs.

Digger25
09-01-2011, 15:13
alright4u - pro ball would have paid better than SF, but SF was much more rewarding, agreed?

WD- if $1100/month (and that's before clubbie dues, meals, etc.) is better pay then they can keep it. Besides, MLB organizations, for the most part, seem to reward big money picks rather than those who are actually performing and deserving... Just my .02

MilkTheFunk
09-07-2011, 13:26
MG,

I had a similar experience in my lead up to signing an 18x contract. I posted an almost exact recruiter experience question on SOCNET and received some good feedback, like you have in this thread. Of course, this was back when I was naive, flippant and less educated on forum rules and respect (thank God I got that out of my system before opening an account here). Like you, I chose to go enlisted rather than OCS as SF is my aspiration. I know it's after the fact, but I hope you find the link below helpful.

http://socnet.com/showthread.php?t=100321

Back in my lane and off to run 6 miles during my lunch break.

cornelyj
09-07-2011, 15:42
I cannot speak about anything regarding to the designation 18. BUT... I can speak about Sand Hill Basic, OCS , IBOLC and the process it takes to put in a packet as a college op candidate. I waited 1 1/2 year for my packet to even get a chance to be seen by three CPTs and got the worst possible time of year to go. I had a 3.7 double major, no waivers etc.


What everyone on this forum is trying to tell you guys is there is no 18A contract you have to want to be an officer first .

I pushed my way through all the paper work. I kept my head down through the DI assaults. I worked my ass off to make sure I commissioned and branched IN. I did it cause I wanted to, it's the reason I wake up everyday at 0415 and get to PT early. Shoot and I am just a lonely cherry IN LT. If I never get a chance to go to SFAS it wouldn't be the end of the world and I would not have wasted anything. I would have got to be an Officer in the best branch in the best Military in the world if that's not you look else where cause I don't want you leading soldiers.

The point the Quiet Professionals are politely trying to make is this is not a choice it is a living and a way of life you can not force yourself to enjoy no matter how many cool youtube videos motivate you or how many threads you post in or how awesome you are at airsoft.

Good luck on your enlistment and I hope you make it through and I too get a chance to be a visitor on your ODA one day.

JRV3
09-12-2011, 16:02
If someone isn't sure, I think going in enlisted first is a good option. It gives you valuable and practical experience which can be relied on later no matter which path you choose. On a team, I find myself relying heavily on my Infantry background and I can only imagine how much more knowledgable I would be with enlisted experience.

The only downside to going enlisted first, then wanting to remain in the SF Community as a CPT is the 3-4 years you have to spend in CF as a PL before you can go back to the Q. But then again, that is also a valuable perspective for a SF Officer which has to maintain good relations with the CF battle space "owners". IMHO, you have to take a more "zen" approach to this path and find value in the journey and not just the payoff of reaching your long term destination.

1stindoor
09-13-2011, 07:38
IMHO, you have to take a more "zen" approach to this path and find value in the journey and not just the payoff of reaching your long term destination.

This whole Army thing is marathon...not a sprint. You have 20-30 years to try and do it all.