I'm going to stir the fire with my stick [Archive]

APLP

02-02-2004, 02:05

For primary mission capability from a secondary
weapon platform that is concealable, the Glcok-21 with
6.5 inch KKM barrel, and Le Mas CQB subgun .45acp
ammunition.

The above weapon and ammunition combo delivers
85 grain BMT payloads at 2475 fps that will outperform
any sub M-4 5.56 length carbine in the CQB environment
without lethal over penetration potential.

The factory length barrel will deliver 2275fps
with the same ammunition and outperform sub 10 inch
5.56 carbine platforms with conventional ammunition in the
CQB environment.

For long distance (150 meters) impacts the 1911 5 inch Kimber CDP platform with BMT CQB 10mm. This weapon, ammunition combo will penetrate 1/4 inch steel and all soft barriers.

For personnal every day carry the Kimber CDP .45acp. Prefer only light weight 1911 alloy frames weapons that weigh less than 27 ounces.

The S&W .38special titanium or keltec's for BUG's that weigh
less than 11 oz. with BMT ammunition.

Huey14

02-02-2004, 12:52

Because our Govt. has issues with hanguns, I have never had the oppertunity to fire one.

However, I do like the USP and the 226. I don't know how good they are, but I like them.

colmurph

02-02-2004, 14:16

Colt 1911 A-1! But in the last couple of weeks I've been having a lot of fun with a couple of SAA's I just bought. One's in 32-20 and was made in 1897 (Has a minty bore) and the other is in 38-40 (a screw in frame blackpowder gun) with a shootable bore made in 1893. The latter one looks like it may have been a "Movie Gun" at one time or other as it is nickle plate and the right grip is worn smooth (as if by countless sleeved arms brushing against it while it was in a holster). Bought each of them for less than a 3d Generation re-pop.

TF Kilo

02-02-2004, 15:30

HK USP .45 Expert.

If I were to go towards a 1911, I'd probably lean towards the Para-Ordinance line rather than a single stack.

Psywar1-0

02-02-2004, 15:31

I think its my new fav. For sure what I pick up when things get crazy here in my apt complex, AKA Little Mexico.

Kimber Custom TLE/RL II

Surgicalcric

02-02-2004, 16:01

HK USP .40

JD

NousDefionsDoc

02-02-2004, 16:10

Psywar - you suck.

Air.177

02-02-2004, 16:45

maybe i was raised in the old school but I prefer a browning Hi power. The original Wondernine.

longrange1947

02-02-2004, 18:29

Originally posted by Air.177
maybe i was raised in the old school but I prefer a browning Hi power. The original Wondernine.

Wondernine as in I wonder why anyone uses it? :D

Air.177

02-02-2004, 18:41

I always have been a sucker for high capacity. No matter how fast your reload is, the guy that doesn't have to reload has an advantage.

brownapple

02-02-2004, 19:14

Any 1911 style .45

Team Sergeant

02-02-2004, 19:32

Originally posted by Air.177
I always have been a sucker for high capacity. No matter how fast your reload is, the guy that doesn't have to reload has an advantage.

high caps are fine, shooting straight is better.

NousDefionsDoc

02-02-2004, 19:33

Originally posted by Air.177
I always have been a sucker for high capacity. No matter how fast your reload is, the guy that doesn't have to reload has an advantage.

No matter how many rounds you fire, the guy that gets the first good hit wins. :D

Air.177

02-02-2004, 19:50

True on both counts; but since a pistol should be a secondary weapon, i would like the ability to engage as many targets as possible. I have no problem with forty five as a caliber and I think that the 1911 is a fine weapon system. That being said, I prefer to be able to carry more rounds in fewer mags. Also as i have seen used as a signature line elswhere on the net, "Speed is fine, accuracy is final" Valid points all around, and Duly noted.

The Reaper

02-02-2004, 19:57

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
No matter how many rounds you fire, the guy that gets the first good hit wins.

Point taken, but not if there are several of them.

Anything beyond contact range, and 99.9% of the gunfights with pistols are won by the guy taking the time to aim and shoot accurately.

You can't miss fast enough to win, unless you have a belt-fed.:D

TR

NousDefionsDoc

02-02-2004, 20:07

Originally posted by The Reaper
Point taken, but not if there are several of them.

Anything beyond contact range, and 99.9% of the gunfights with pistols are won by the guy taking the time to aim and shoot accurately.

You can't miss fast enough to win, unless you have a belt-fed.:D

TR

That was my point. Marksmanship, not round count. That's ok, though, I got you back on the flashlights thread. LOL

Ambush Master

02-02-2004, 20:19

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
That was my point. Marksmanship, not round count. That's ok, though, I got you back on the flashlights thread. LOL

With what, a Belt Fed Flashlight ???:D

NousDefionsDoc

02-02-2004, 22:39

Well, if 1,000 years of Spec Ops experience (And that's just LR and AM) all agrees on.45; what the hell is the Army doing with M-Italian guns?

The Reaper

02-02-2004, 22:45

Originally posted by Ambush Master
With what, a Belt Fed Flashlight ???:D

Hey!!

No theft of intellectual property, I came up with it first!!

TR

BackInTheDay

02-02-2004, 23:35

1911 any flavor, I have 17 different ones.

Of interest:

a left handed Randall. Yes a true lefty handgun, not just ambi mag release. true mirror weapon, left ejection port

pair of essex framed 45 made from...spare arms room parts (statue of limitations)

officers model for conceal carry here in TX

Ambush Master

02-02-2004, 23:36

Originally posted by The Reaper
Hey!!

No theft of intellectual property, I came up with it first!!

TR

A Belt fed FLASHLIGHT ???:D If you are going to claim that one, BWWWAAAAHHHH!!!!!!!

I was trying to stick NDD with it and you just intercepted !!!!

Sdiver

02-02-2004, 23:50

You can only choose one ???:(

Well I'm old school, so I'd have to go with my trusty old M1911.

But an honorable mention goes to my other one...Barretta .40 cal.
Not a Glock fan, never have been. I like a heavy barrell and the .40 has the speed of a 9 and the knockdown power of a .45.

ODA 564

02-03-2004, 15:02

While I have three Colt .45 ACPs GMs (a stock M1911, an AMU accurized-but-detuned-for-IPSC-back-in-the-day M1911A1, and a LTWT Commander in both .45 ACP and .38 Super); I have converted to the Glock.

22 or 19, it makes no difference. Fast and accurate.

Why?

Well, if I lose any of my GMs its a significant emotional event. The M1911 was Granddad's in the Big War. The M1911A1 was Dad's in the Dubya-Duya Eye Eye. The LTWT Commander is my custom smithed gun.

If I lose a Glock (due to da' law, Customs, whatever), I can buy one just like it again.

I I shoot like a barn on fire with it. Got to get me a .45 ACP one.

colmurph

02-03-2004, 17:39

One of the new toys. 1893 in .32 WCF

longrange1947

02-03-2004, 18:32

Girl's gun! :D

colmurph

02-04-2004, 09:48

.32-20 is also a Rifle Cartridge. It's about on par with the .30 Carbine round.

AngelsSix

02-04-2004, 10:53

Kimber .45, straight out of the box and some Speers........works for me!

Smokin Joe

02-05-2004, 07:35

Kimber TLE, but no light rail.:mad:.........loaded w/ winchester SXT's

QuietShootr

02-05-2004, 14:56

Wilson CQB with Winchester Ranger 230gr..:D

longrange1947

02-07-2004, 13:10

Originally posted by colmurph
.32-20 is also a Rifle Cartridge. It's about on par with the .30 Carbine round.

And that is what I get for not reading the whole post! :o

Sorry Col.

Maya

02-09-2004, 14:18

.45 Kimber CDP Pro, 165 grain Hydra-Shocks

FILO

02-09-2004, 16:37

Glock 23-Very reliable, good stopping power and good conceal. Everything I need.

Tuukka

02-10-2004, 08:50

My USP 9x19mm, i can trust it to go bang every time i pull the trigger and it has several features why i chose it. Hasnt let me down yet.

I do have a .45 project under work, it will be a another trusty tool.

GackMan

02-10-2004, 10:44

Glock 21.

I have to carry it so I might as well love it and make it my favorite. :D

Alex F

02-11-2004, 14:36

HK USP in .45

There's something to be said for the crisp single action trigger of a nice 1911 though.

Farmer40

02-11-2004, 17:57

Picking a favorite handgun kind of depends on what you're going to use it for. And where you're going to use it. Over time I've carried/used the M1911, a Browning Hi Power and a PPKS. Different situations called for different tools. They all did the job, but the one that hangs on the wall is the PPKS.

Doc

07-25-2005, 17:49

10MM Colt Delta Elite

Doc

lksteve

07-25-2005, 17:52

10MM Colt Delta Elitenew gun?

Doc

07-25-2005, 18:01

new gun?

Nope, I've had it for years. Methinks it was around 1985 when I bought it.

lksteve

07-25-2005, 18:05

Nope, I've had it for years. Methinks it was around 1985 when I bought it.just wondering...previous post was pert-nigh a year and a half ago...

don't know that i have a favorite handgun...never cared much for the M9, never was all that good with the 1911...i have a Ruger Redhawk in .44RM and a P90 just so i can have an autoloader...

The Reaper

07-25-2005, 18:07

Nope, I've had it for years. Methinks it was around 1985 when I bought it.

Nice pistol, Doc!

I had a Bren 10 and now have a Para Ordnance in 10mm.

Great round till the Feebs ruined it. 10mm (-P)

TR

HOLLiS

07-25-2005, 18:43

Dang so many hand guns so little time. 10mm is a great round, I have a glock in it, Then there is 41 AE, and OH!! yes 45's .. Just bought a compact colt 1911. 38 Super another good one.

IMHO, the right tool for the Job is the best hand gun. I think I need to own a few more, to think in gun shops there are lonely hand guns looking for a good home. My oldest hand gun is a New model #3 S&W in 44 russian, a fun hand gun to shoot. While I don't think I would take it into combat, It is fun to own.

Gene Econ

07-25-2005, 19:52

I was thinking about this one today while returning from some KD work with some great NCOs and Officers out of 4 Squadron 2 CR (SBCT).

Perhaps most of us had to deal with the 1911 in the Army. I figure we got used to them because most of us continue to like them. I certainly do and was shooting mine yesterday in fact.

The Army never expected the 9mm to be used I figure, and low and behold -- it is being used in Iraq much more than just for personal defense. And low and behold -- all the problems we faced with the Berettas are coming home to roost. And low and behold -- the guys using them say that the 9mm sucks. So the Army is now looking for another cartridge. I doubt it will be the .45. Probably a .40 or 10mm. No doubt it will turn into an abortion like that SOCOM pistol thing of ten plus years ago.

Favorite pistol? 1911 frame. Why? It fits my hand and I have been shooting one for about thirty years. My 1911 has a good .45 top end on it, a exceptional comped .38 Super top end for it, and even a (believe it or not), 9mm top end for the same frame. Why the 9mm? Because when we train fellows with the Beretta I can tap into the ammunition and do some shooting. Of the three cartriges however, I have the most confidence with the .45 ACP. Why? Shots go to my calls every single time.

I guess that the generation of the Beretta will probably say they love the Berretta design -- probably not the 9mm cartridge. They are used to shooting the Beretta just like we got used to shooting the 1911.

Gene

Spartan359

07-25-2005, 19:53

Walther P-99 .40cal. Never was to fond of the 9mm. Anyone else fired one?

alphamale

07-25-2005, 19:54

I am at one with my snubbies. ::meditative hum::

FrontSight

Ambush Master

07-25-2005, 20:24

I carried, and still do, a Browning HiPower in 9mm. I have shot a LOT of folks with it, and I do need to qualify that it was with "non standard ammo", using '69-'71 vintage SuperVel ammunition. Granted, this was early generation "Hollow Cavity" stuff, but it put them down. Shot placement always comes into play, and if you can't shoot what you are carrying, while under STRESS, then unless it is an "Area" weapon, it dosen't matter what the caliber is !!!!! :munchin

AngelsSix

07-25-2005, 21:27

Kimber 1911 full size.

Air.177

07-25-2005, 22:50

I am at one with my snubbies. ::meditative hum::

FrontSight

You know, you sure do squawk a lot about Dots to have such a small one on your Front sight. :p

Tubbs

07-25-2005, 23:36

Put my money on a Sig 228, Houge grips and 15rnd MecGar mags loaded with Speer Gold Dots. If you know how to put the little bullets where they need to be you don't need big bullets.

"When they come for me I'll be sitting at my desk with a gun in my hand wearing a bullet proof vest, singing my oh my how the time must fly when you know you're gonna die by the end of the night..."

Viking

07-26-2005, 00:30

Kimber TLE/RL II. I wish I had it with me right now. Damn M9.

mfos2

07-26-2005, 02:58

HK USP.45

I agree I love my HK. My Browning Hi Power is number two.

Smokin Joe

07-26-2005, 04:03

Kimber TLE/RL II. I wish I had it with me right now. Damn M9.

Glad to hear you got it. Also glad to hear you like it.

KBAR_O4

07-26-2005, 07:40

My Colt Combat Commander 45 I purchased in 1977. I have a Kimber fullsize 45 as well, but like the Commander for the rare occasions I carry an auto these days. Since most of our trouble up here is with 4 legged pests, vice two leggers, I usually carry my Winchester 1886 SRC in 45-70, backed up by my Ruger old model Blackhawk in 45 Colt.

Guy

07-26-2005, 13:46

Glock-17/9mm

I was just on the range with some folks...

If the military switches back to .45...Start investing money!

Take care.

07-26-2005, 17:03

My first gun, and the one I liked the most: Browning High Power. Just fit my hand beautifully! Now using Glock 19, does the job, but no way does it fit my hand as well.

G

Tubbs

07-26-2005, 19:35

Glock-17/9mm

I was just on the range with some folks...

If the military switches back to .45...Start investing money!

Take care.

??? :eek:

lksteve

07-26-2005, 19:44

If the military switches back to .45...Start investing money!interesting comment...if that were to be the case, why would the good folks at Rock Island Arsenal order 5,000 Ruger KP95D, like American Handgunner just reported....? :confused:

Doc

07-26-2005, 19:48

??? :eek:

Translation;

You want to invest money into the company that the military gives the .45 contract to, if it ever happens.

The reason I can translate Guy is because I helped put him through the 18D course and spoke to him on many occasions.

The 9mm is a .45 set to stun.

:D

Doc

The Reaper

07-26-2005, 20:15

interesting comment...if that were to be the case, why would the good folks at Rock Island Arsenal order 5,000 Ruger KP95D, like American Handgunner just reported....? :confused:

Base security guards.

Cheapest pistols they could get.

TR

Air.177

07-26-2005, 20:46

Base security guards.

Cheapest pistols they could get.

TR

Oh??

How bout This fine piece of American iron...err potmetal??

:rolleyes:

Smokin Joe

07-26-2005, 21:04

Oh??

How bout This fine piece of American iron...err potmetal??

:rolleyes:

I think I would rather have a Hammer by Craftsman....atleast I could beat someone to death with a hammer.

The Reaper

07-26-2005, 21:05

Oh??

How bout This fine piece of American iron...err potmetal??

:rolleyes:

What, you don't carry the Birdman?

TR

lksteve

07-26-2005, 21:10

Cheapest pistols they could get.you know, if you stop and do the math, 5000 units, even at retail, ain't much of a contract...

The Reaper

07-26-2005, 21:34

you know, if you stop and do the math, 5000 units, even at retail, ain't much of a contract...

Exactly.

TR

Air.177

07-26-2005, 21:43

What, you don't carry the Birdman?

TR

Actually I roll with the Birdman micronuke, But I didn't want to tip my hand ;)

dave_az

07-27-2005, 15:43

Home or Open Carry: Colt Series 80, 1911 A-1, blued, 45acp
For CCW: Kahr P9 Covert, 9mm
For everything else: Sig 229 in 40/357.

MAB32

07-27-2005, 20:03

Glock G34 or a Novak modified Browning Hi Power.

Endorphin Rush

07-27-2005, 22:18

Used to be an H&K P7M13, in 9mm, for years...

But now it's an Ed Brown Classic Custom 1911 Gov't model in 45 ACP.

The P7 is a keeper, but I am enamored of the 1911.

KolB

07-28-2005, 06:39

.45 Sig 220

SFRADIOMAN

07-28-2005, 07:51

My favorite handgun is the one I have in my hand when I need it most and it does not misfire or stove pipe jam. As it has been said, shot placement is very important and up close the .22 will do the job.

I carry the Glock .40 most of the time and when I feel the need for sure one-shot stops, I carry my Glock 10mm with the full power loads. 10mm is just a bit bulky for everyday CW carry.

Two inexpensive handguns for fun: Rock Island .45 (made in Philippines) for $300 and the Bersa .40 for about the same. Both have functioned flawlessly out of the box and are reasonably accurate.

Still like my revolvers, too. Like i said, my favorite is the one I have in my hand at the time.

Detcord

07-29-2005, 04:02

I love Glock 21's for full-sized carry.

Tubbs

07-29-2005, 18:07

fusion94

08-04-2005, 00:22

The 9mm is a .45 set to stun.

Best quote ever. Thank You Doc

I've loved all my Sig's for the most part as well as my 1911 clones of various makes.

kgoerz

09-10-2005, 18:42

Flame-Thrower

El Cid

09-12-2005, 09:53

Favorite handgun - make, model and caliber.
Para-Ordnance P14-45, in 45ACP of course. :)

david_reeves

09-29-2005, 00:56

Glock 20 with Corbon's or Winchester Silvertips...

10MM, I shoot better with my G20 than I do with any other pistol yet.
So, being able to hit my target, and, using a pretty nasty caliber/loading is my solution to things that I can't go after with my AR or HK91....

Dave

Sten

09-29-2005, 06:58

HK P9s in .45

The mag release is a little cranky but nothing a little practice can't overcome.

miller0331

09-29-2005, 09:54

I agree with SFRadioman, the one in your hand is the best one...

My grandfather always told me to be wary of the man who only owns one gun because it probably is a natural extension of that individual and he'll know it as well as he knows his own body....

I'm quite fond of the Browning HP as it points well, accurate, and I have never had a malfunction with mine (and it's stock!). I have owned many different handguns and always keep coming back to the BHP. But then again, I have a tricked out Kimber 1911 that comes in a close second.

My 2 cents worth of gunstore philosophy...

longtab

09-29-2005, 12:48

My grandfather always told me to be wary of the man who only owns one gun...

We may have had the same grandfather.

Kimber CDP. My 2¢.

Dog Off Leash

10-16-2005, 02:00

I guess that the generation of the Beretta will probably say they love the Berretta design -- probably not the 9mm cartridge. They are used to shooting the Beretta just like we got used to shooting the 1911.

Gene

Gene

I am of the Beretta generation - and I utterly hate that piece of junk.

If it *must* be 9mil, then give me a Sig 226.

Otherwise, I'll gladly take a well-used full-size 1911, good mags, good ammo, and a piece of skateboard tape for the front strap.

Michelle

10-17-2005, 15:14

Gene

I am of the Beretta generation - and I utterly hate that piece of junk.

If it *must* be 9mil, then give me a Sig 226.

Otherwise, I'll gladly take a well-used full-size 1911, good mags, good ammo, and a piece of skateboard tape for the front strap.

DOL,

How does the P226 compare to the 225? I have the 225 in 9mm and love it (even better than the 239)... I haven't handled a 226 yet though.

Thank you in advance,

m1

Razor

10-17-2005, 15:20

I have the 225 in 9mm and love it (even better than the 239)...

Hey! What about the trigger issues? :munchin ;)

Michelle

10-17-2005, 15:35

Hey! What about the trigger issues? :munchin ;)

Sir Razor, the P239 had worse trigger issues... the pounds in DA, etc.

Mr. Yost did a lot of work on her... installed a short trigger, lightened the pull, etc. It's much better now.

The P225 actually has a better trigger for me out of factory. Even though it's a little more of a reach, the action is smoother and it's lighter. I ordered a short trigger for that one last week too though, and when time permits, it will go to the spa. Overall though, I like the feel of the 225 better, both grip and otherwise. Interesting that is was made back when they were still being produced in Germany. The 239 was made here in the U.S.

I would be curious to see if DOL (or anyone for that matter) has an opinion on the 226 versus the 225. (Although the last thing I need right now is to find myself another pistol to want). lol. :cool:

m1

Razor

10-17-2005, 15:58

IIRC, the P225 was the 'daddy' of the P226. It was being used by European police and some military units in the 80s. When the US Army put out its requirements for a new standard issue pistol, it stipulated that the weapon have a 15rd capacity (hence a double stack magazine) and a western-style mag release button. Thus, SIG built the P226 to be a larger, wider P225 that could carry the requisite number of rounds, and had a mag release button near the trigger as opposed to a European release near the magwell. Having a longer slide, and hence a longer sight radius, might make it a bit easier to aim accurately at longer distances, but as they're both handguns, that's a relative comparison. The longer barrel and slide also add a little more weight towards the muzzle, which can lessen muzzle flip by a fraction, but in 9mm its pretty much moot.

Because the P225 is shorter and thinner than a P226, its a little easier to carry concealed. However, a P228/229 is dimensionally similar to the P225 (the P225 is a fraction of an inch slimmer), and provides you with increased magazine capacity (both in standard capacity mags, and the ability to use P226 mags), and in the P229 the ability to carry a larger or hotter round (.40/.357 SIG). When in doubt, buy a Powerball ticket and buy one of each when you win!

Edited to add: I was reminded to mention that P225s built for export to the US featured a western-style mag release, while those kept in Europe retained their butt-centric (go figure, huh) button design.

FROST18E

10-23-2005, 14:09

mike_m

10-24-2005, 10:31

Team Sergeant

10-24-2005, 10:55

I'm a pistol snob so I'm going to say a Colt Series 70, full house job. I should be getting mine back in december from my smith. heinie sights, kart barrell, yost bonitz ignition set, greider trigger, Ed Brown match bushing and slide stop, Wilson Combat extractor and ejector , S&A magwell. flattened and serrated slide top 35 LPI, high cut and checker front strap 20 LPI, serrate rear of slide 50 LPI. :D

Frost,

Let me know when you return the 1911 clone for "another" overhaul......;)

Get yourself an H&K full size USP and break your 1911 addiction.:cool:

TS
I'm going shooting tomorrow morning with some Phoenix LEO's, you're welcome to come along!

FROST18E

10-24-2005, 11:38

Frost,

Let me know when you return the 1911 clone for "another" overhaul......;)

Get yourself an H&K full size USP and break your 1911 addiction.:cool:

TS
I'm going shooting tomorrow morning with some Phoenix LEO's, you're welcome to come along!

NEVER!!!!!:lifter

I just picked up a series 80 on Saturday and will be doing the mods on it myself. it's my learning gun. The smith doing my full house is a friend of mine and is going to teach me how to do the trigger jobs, reliability jobs, etc.

Say, isn't the HK made of plastic?:D

thanks for the invite, this week is bad though. I have a crime scene supplement to do for my detective cert class. its due wed. and I'm only about half done. why anyone would want to be a "dick" is beyond me.....

jatx

10-24-2005, 11:58

NEVER!!!!!:

Say, isn't the HK made of plastic?:D

TS seems to like you, but I'm still going to duck and cover...:)

eva05

10-24-2005, 12:03

For what it's worth,

I really like my Glock 19 and my FN Five-Seven. Glock is the first pistol I ever shot, so I'm very comfortable with it.

But recently I've come to favor the Five Seven. I purchased it about 3 months ago after trying it against a USP 45 and a Sig 226. The FN felt lighter in my hand and I was able to hit targets with it faster, repeatedly with smaller groupings. Thing has almost no recoil, though the sights needed some tuning out of the box :(

Then again I've never had to fire a shot in anger in my life. All my experience is with range dummies and paper targets.

j

Team Sergeant

10-24-2005, 12:34

Say, isn't the HK made of plastic?:D

Yes,"new millennium" materials and shoots bullet holes through bullet holes, "off the shelf".

I've been down the road you are now taking, after you have spent 5 times what the gun originally cost you will come over to the dark side......:p

TS

Bless you for keeping 10,000 gunsmiths in business!

BTW do you get a tax break when purchasing a 1911 because it's now considered an "antique"?:rolleyes:

Roguish Lawyer

10-24-2005, 13:56

Team Sergeant,

They are just jealous of our oh so fine West German handguns.

:lifter

What the hell did you do to yours?

RL
HK Enthusiast

longrange1947

10-24-2005, 15:01

Hey - Didn't one of the State Police Troops call that the leg shooter due to the ADs in the leg over that little squeezey cocky thingy bobie? :p

Just a rumor I witnessed. :munchin

The Reaper

10-24-2005, 23:07

For what it's worth,
But recently I've come to favor the Five Seven. I purchased it about 3 months ago after trying it against a USP 45 and a Sig 226. The FN felt lighter in my hand and I was able to hit targets with it faster, repeatedly with smaller groupings. Thing has almost no recoil, though the sights needed some tuning out of the box :(

Then again I've never had to fire a shot in anger in my life. All my experience is with range dummies and paper targets.

j

Why not just carry a .22 Magnum?

TR

The Reaper

10-24-2005, 23:08

P14-45 Limited, I'd change the front sight to a .090, add an aftec extractor, get the trigger worked to around 2lbs and throw in some Wolff plus power mag springs (I also might get it refinished to keep it from rusting).

Let me know how that runs with a 2 pound trigger.:rolleyes:

I hope that you never have to shoot anyone with it.

TR

freds4

10-24-2005, 23:50

eva05

10-25-2005, 06:58

Why not just carry a .22 Magnum?

I don't like revolvers :) But I've also never tried one.

I had read a little about the Five-Seven in prior to going to the range and making my purchase. It seemed like an interesting idea. Pistol that fires a SMG round. Supposedly favored by the Secret Service. 20 round magazine (though since I live in NJ I only have the 10 round mags).

I was interested but after I fired one it felt so sweet...perhaps I was seduced ;-)

j

The Reaper

10-25-2005, 08:22

I don't like revolvers :) But I've also never tried one.

I had read a little about the Five-Seven in prior to going to the range and making my purchase. It seemed like an interesting idea. Pistol that fires a SMG round. Supposedly favored by the Secret Service. 20 round magazine (though since I live in NJ I only have the 10 round mags).

I was interested but after I fired one it felt so sweet...perhaps I was seduced ;-

j

The point is, low recoil in a light gun = low power.

You are carrying a gun with almost no stopping power. The round has very little terminal effect. You will be making small .22 caliber holes in the target with a short, FMJ projo with little propensity to create damage when it yaws. And due to the light projo weight, it bleeds off velocity very rapidly. Ergo, it is not a very effective round.

An SMG fires a pistol cartridge by definition.

The only Secret Service use of the 5.7 may be in a P-90.

I have a S&W 41 that is sweet as well, but I wouldn't bring it to a gun fight if I had any other options.

eva05

10-25-2005, 08:38

The round has very little terminal effect. I have a S&W 41 that is sweet as well, but I wouldn't bring it to a gun fight if I had any other options.

Understood. That's why I keep my Glock 19 right next to it :)

I had polled the users here a little while back and received an overwhelming endorsement for the USP. I see in this thread many of the users are still a big fan of it. That will probably be the next pistol I purchase.

j

mike_m

10-25-2005, 10:31

Let me know how that runs with a 2 pound trigger.:rolleyes:

I hope that you never have to shoot anyone with it.

TR

I've had the para set up like that for three years, I only use it for IDPA matches. I've put a fair amount of rounds through it, it runs fine. What's the weight on your trigger pull?

I am aware of the potential legal problems involved with shooting someone with a modified gun.

btw I like the Dlask trigger on your Para.

Razor

10-25-2005, 10:48

Do the IDPA targets shoot back at you?

The Reaper

10-25-2005, 11:03

I've had the para set up like that for three years, I only use it for IDPA matches. I've put a fair amount of rounds through it, it runs fine. What's the weight on your trigger pull?

I am aware of the potential legal problems involved with shooting someone with a modified gun.

btw I like the Dlask trigger on your Para.

I have 3.5-4 lbs. on all of my 1911 triggers. A clean break is more important to me than the weight.

I like the Dlask as well.

You may not want to start jumping into these with both feet with guys who have carried in harm's way since well before you were born.

TR

HOLLiS

10-25-2005, 13:03

I have 3.5-4 lbs. on all of my 1911 triggers. A clean break is more important to me than the weight.

TR

I agree, smooth, clean and crisp, would probably be the words I would also use. IMHO too light of a trigger (hair triggar) is dangerous and uncertain. I think as it has been mentioned many times in the past on this board it is Training, Training, and more training along with experience. The quality of the shooter is more imporant than the fire arm or how it is set up.

FROST18E

10-25-2005, 17:27

No time to read the entire thread but....
Sig/Sauer P-220, .45 caliber
Also agree with TS's point of view. Why pour money into an antique only to make it as good as something that shoots just as well off the shelf?
I also hear great things about the USP.

I guess that there are two types of people. Those that like 1911's and those that don't (I will call you the blasphemers!)

some call it an antique design, I call it classic.

A customized 1911 is a piece of working art. just check out some of the smiths work on WWW.LOUDERTHANWORDS.US especially chuck rogers, ct brian, and stan chen. expensive? VERY. Long wait? Richard Heinie has an 8 year waiting list. Worth it? in the eye of the shooter.

Can your off the shelf guns shoot 1 1/4 inches at 50yards in a rest? I don't know i've never seen that.

for what it's worth I also have 2 Sig p220's, 2 glocks, a walther, XD9, and my two pony's. Next purchase will be an Ed Brown Executive Elite 1911.:p

mike_m

10-25-2005, 19:55

You may not want to start jumping into these with both feet with guys who have carried in harm's way since well before you were born.

TR

True, hope I wasn't being to forward. I have a lot of respect for what you guys do.

Smokin Joe

10-25-2005, 21:14

This past weekend I attended SouthNarc's IEK/ECQC (I will write up a review later this week when I have more time). But after this course I'm considering going back to my Glock.

Not because I like my Glock 21 over my Kimber but because of magazine capacity. It became abundantly clear to me how valuable a lot of bullets in your primary magazine is. It is very difficult to reload when you are tied up with two individuals who are trying to grab your gun.

...I would go with a double stack 1911 or a USP but we are only authorized standard 1911's and Glocks.

TS,

Thanks to your teachings during the Sims training of this class my rounds where true and hit their intended targets. I had to hit a few guys in the femoral and pelvic region. :D

Ammodawg

10-26-2005, 02:10

SIG P226. :lifter

A G19 would be my second favorite. Alas, I own neither, and have only shot my buddies guns.

Rudyak

11-04-2005, 15:05

Colt 1911A1 .45acp.

They all fall to hardball.:o

SERPENT5XX

11-05-2005, 16:35

Favorite .45's

Les Baer Custom II modified by Novak
Les Baer SRP
Kimber Warrior
Kimber Classic modified by Novak
Glock 21
HK USP 45

Favorite 9mm

SIG 226
SIG 226SR
SIG 226R
Glock 34
Glock 19
Glock 17
BHP when I want the slide to cut my hands
M9 when the students are using it

I try to spread the love between a wide array of handguns, it has made me a better and more versatile shooter.

Also if you can shoot the same gun the students do it eliminates the "better gun" factor from your instruction.

The Reaper

11-05-2005, 17:57

Team Sergeant

11-05-2005, 18:37

Also if you can shoot the same gun the students do it eliminates the "better gun" factor from your instruction.

I always shoot what the "Students" are shooting. IMO there are better guns, with the glock running dead last.

I have and still can take just about any handgun and place 5 rounds through the same hole at 21 feet, any handgun, except the glock. It might be the grip angle, what is that like 17 degrees, as compared to 11 degrees for 99.9 percent of the rest of the worlds handguns? Although I've never clocked it, I'm betting the slide on the glock is moving a few hundred feet faster than the rest of the weapons currently on the street. This would account for a less than accurate weapon off the shelf.
Its a worthless piece to me, and I've never had anything bad to say about most handguns until I fired a few glocks. But I guess if one has a police force to train you might want a pistol that is number one in "little training" and is the lowest cost, mass produced semi-auto on the market.

Before anyone gets their feelings hurt know this, I do not work for any gun dealer, none. These are my opinions based on decades of firing weapons and hundreds of thousands of rounds down range.....

TS

NousDefionsDoc

11-05-2005, 20:08

Well, some people just can't shoot a Glock - no shame in that TS. Come on down, I'll give ya a few pointers....:p

Peregrino

11-05-2005, 21:45

Well, some people just can't shoot a Glock - no shame in that TS. Come on down, I'll give ya a few pointers....:p

I'm with TS on this one - the Glock is the most (ubiquitous) disposable handgun made. If police administrators/politicians had been a little (make that a lot) less CHEAP and willing to get their guys quality guns and decent training back when most departments were transitioning from revolvers to pistols we wouldn't be forever cursed with the "block". I still remember the 1st generation magazines that wouldn't drop free (please wait a minute while I fumble my mag change so I can get this POS reloaded and get back in the fight) the plastic sights, and highly trained (well - sort of, please refer to previous comment about police administrators and expensive training) LEOs shooting themselves in the buttocks while holstering their weapons. If I'm stuck with a 9mm, make mine the BHP. My .02 - Peregrino

NousDefionsDoc

11-05-2005, 21:47

Change scares some people...:D

The Reaper

11-05-2005, 22:18

Change scares some people...:D

And some others shouldn't be allowed to play with guns or sharp objects.

TR

Huey14

11-05-2005, 22:19

I'd be interested to hear you guys' thoughts on the Glock safety system. Good intentions gone bad?

Team Sergeant

11-06-2005, 09:05

I'd be interested to hear you guys' thoughts on the Glock safety system. Good intentions gone bad?

I'm glad you asked that Huey…..

It would seem that the glock safety system is as bad as the weapon itself. The police realizing that their weapons training is sorely lacking have "invented" safer glocks or methods to make the glock safer… such as the "NY Trigger" or simply keeping your trigger "out" of the trigger well until one is forced to fire.

(some will misinterpret this "keeping the finger out of the trigger well" as the same thing that is taught with the assault rifles, submachine guns, shotguns ets. Trust me when I say its not the same thing. With a long gun you usually have a second hand taking up a grip on the weapon system in a completely separate place, such as the hand guards. Aligning ones trigger finger along the upper side of the trigger guard of a shoulder fired weapon until forced to fire is a simple move due to the second hand placement, the relative “small” size of the handgrip and the grip angle makes the moving of the trigger finger easy and fast. With a pistol one must realign their grip in order to accomplish this same task. This is awkward at best as the movement of ones finger muscles will cause a "pushing" motion when moving the finger off the top of the trigger guard and into / onto the trigger. This will also move the gun out of alignment if done too quickly and if done too slowly in a gunfight, well you know what too slowly can do in a gunfight. How it should be taught is the placing the trigger finger into the trigger guard and onto the trigger as one is bringing a pistol to the firing position, so by the time your arms are level you are ready to fire.)

Personally I view these methods as a fix for an extremely poorly designed weapon system. (Would someone please tell me of another system that has been massed produced and that has had so many safety "fixes" as the glock?)

But my over all favorite is buying of "fluff masters" to sing the glocks praises and the gun "fluff masters" have eagerly stepped up to the challenge. From the national pistol "target" masters (as in they possess no civilian LEO experience or military experience yet they will sell their soul complementing a system that is worthless) to the so called real weapons masters that would sell their creditability for a chance to sing the glocks praises in a national recognized gun magazine and being well compensated to do so.

Again, I have never been compensated by anyone for endorsing a weapons system. These opinions are mine, and as you will see, they are some that will swear by the glock. IMO the glock is nothing more than a cheaply made mass produced piece of crap. BTW, I own one, I also teach police officers and needed one to learn what the law enforcement officers are learning and how to overcome the problems of a worthless handgun.

TS