View Full Version : A SOF Memorial at Arlington Cemetery?
I visited Arlington National Cemetery last week while in DC for a conference. My wife and I did what the other two million visitors a year do, breezed through the visitor’s center and headed up the hill to the Tomb of the Unknowns, stopping at the JFK grave site and Robert E Lee’s plantation house along the way. After watching the changing of the guard at the Tomb of the Unknowns, we followed the provided map to the main memorials: Space Shuttles Challenger and Columbia, USS Maine, Audie Murphy, etc. Again, all on top of the hill and on the Ft Myer side of the cemetery. The latest headstones were marked World War II and a few Vietnam. I began to wonder where “our guys” were. After about four hours of walking, we went back to the visitor’s center to leave. I saw a kiosk by the information center where you could type in a name and find the grave location. Not even knowing if Tony was buried at Arlington, I typed in “Yost” and hit enter. His name came up and hit me like a ton of bricks.
It has been five years since I had seen Tony, the last time was a week before he was KIA in Mosul. About four years prior to his death, he was one of my 18B instructors when I was the 1SG of B-1/4th SWTG. B Co had Phase III, then the MOS producing phase, for the 18B, 18C and 18Es. Additionally, and in spite of being a monstrous Apache Indian, Tony Yost was an outstanding HALO jumpmaster and was sent to the Advanced Freefall course. When I left for the Sergeants Major Academy, Tony was promoted to Master Sergeant and given an ODA in 3rd Group. We linked up again in Mosul when his company was attached to 1/5th for the BATT mission. Tony would stop by the OPCEN to see me every few weeks when his Team came in for an S-4 run.
My wife, Kimberly, and I walked over to section 60 and began to look for row 82. Section 60 is to the south of the visitor’s center, at the bottom of the hill and is where all of “our guys” are being buried. The majority of the graves have Operation Iraqi Freedom or Afghanistan chiseled in them with a sprinkling of WWII, Korea and Vietnam vets. There had been visitors in the not so distant past, wilted and dead flowers, Christmas wreaths, and a 12 pack of beer on a young Marine’s grave. But mostly what Kim and I noticed was that, other than a funeral taking place a couple hundred meters away, there were no visitors. This was a stark contrast from the activity up on the hill. There is no reason to visit section 60. Only if you had a family member or a Brother in Arms beneath section 60 would there be an incentive to come to this part of Arlington. After we found Tony we spent a few minutes with him while I told Kim stories that she had heard before of 18B students, the 18B FTX and the time Tony and I went to the O2 chamber at Shaw AFB, we started back. I then noticed that Ayman Taha’s grave was a few over from Tony’s. I didn’t know Ayman, but I knew he was an 18C in 3/5th. He was KIA in 2005 carrying a 155mm round rigged as an IED out of a house full of women and kids…It detonated when he was putting it down. I then wondered how many other SF guys were in section 60. What about other ARSOF guys, how many Rangers and TF 160 guys were around me? What about SEALs, and Air Force TACPs? There is really no way to know without prior research for names and a call on the visitor’s center’s kiosk.
Later that night, after the Lincoln Memorial, the Vietnam Wall and the Korea and WWII memorials I thought of desolate section 60 and “our guys”. I am considering approaching CSM Baer (USASOC) and CSM Vigil (USASFC) about the possibility of erecting a Special Forces Command Memorial in section 60 for our guys. But then I thought about a US Army Special Operations Command memorial in section 60 for the SF Guys, the Rangers and TF-160. I know there is already a memorial at Bragg at the USASOC HQ, but none at Arlington. Lastly, I thought about a USSOCOM memorial for all our SOF guys.
This whole post is leading to a poll. Before I do anything related to a SOF memorial in Section 60 of Arlington National Cemetery, I would like thoughts from other Quite Professionals. Is it worth pursuing at all? If so, what level, USASFC/1st Special Forces Regiment or USASOC or the all SOF encompassing USSOCOM? Thank you in advance for your thoughts.
Respects,
MDK 18Z
Thanks Kemper for taking on this worthy cause. I suspect you'll get lots of support here and around the community. I did find this though:
Due to the ever-decreasing space at the cemetery, and that the nature of memorials is to take up space that could otherwise be used to bury an eligible servicemember, the army requires a joint or concurrent resolution from Congress before it will place new memorials onto the cemetery grounds. Still, there are several memorials on cemetery grounds, and groups regularly seek to use the ever-diminishing grounds for new memorials.
Still, a worthier cause would be hard to find, an attempt is well warranted.
Thanks brother....jd
I am torn on the poll answer.
As much as I'd like to see something there I also see the point of limiting memorials.
Get a SOF one and would other major branch fields want their own also?
Dozer523
01-24-2011, 19:50
I love Arlington; quiet, peaceful, focused on the individual -- in the company of comrade warriors.
If I want group memorials (they have their place) I'll go to Shiloh.
Buffalobob
01-24-2011, 20:11
The poll is more rigged than a Tom Delay redistricting. :D
You can't vote "no".
Pretty much what Dozer said. I go for a funeral to honor a person. I don't go for sightseeing. I only went too see the Wall because some family visitors wanted to see it. I would not have gone on my own.
Tatonka316
01-24-2011, 22:36
I get to Arlington everytime I travel to the east coast. There are many, many SOF warriors resting there along with my son and MSG Yost. My concern about a SOF Memorial - while justified for the number of SOF that have given all in this war - is along what Pete said in regards to all the other services that would want a memorial to their fallen brothers as well. I will support any effort Kemper and anyone else wants to pursue in anyway I can - I just don't know how far we can take this at least at Arlington. One other thought is that while there are many SOF Warriors at Arlington, there are also a great number that are at the National Cemeteries near their home towns, as well as local cemeteries in their towns.
There is a very moving Memorial Wall at USASOC that many here have seen and attended the Memorialization Ceremonies with me each May since 2006. All of the USASOC fallen are on that wall, and the renovation last year is terrific . If anyone would like me to send them some pictures of any particular names, please send me a PM and I will make sure I get pictures to you the next time I get "home" to Bragg.
molon labe
I voted a "SOF memorial is worth pursuing.....", but I would vote to have it built at Bragg, the HQ of SOF command. Arlington to some is a tourist site, for me it is hallowed ground.
All branches of the armed forces with SOF mission requirments have liason offices at Bragg, that makes the most sense to me.
If it was a choice between Arlington and a dozen other national cemeteries, then Bragg makes even more sense keeping it closer to "home".
Knowing our brothers are scattered around in section 60 is kind of like having a tight 360 security position ready for action, known only to the few who would think about such things.
edited: Of course it would take a SGM to write a posting like this,...
welcome aboard SGM Kemper.
MOO:
SOF at MacDill
SF at Bragg
Ranger at Benning
MARSOC at Lejeune
AFSOC at Hurlburt
NAVSPECWARGRU at Coronado
160th SOAR at Campbell
Richard
MOO:
SOF at MacDill
SF at Bragg
Ranger at Benning
MARSOC at Lejeune
AFSOC at Hurlburt
NAVSPECWARGRU at Coronado
160th SOAR at Campbell
Richard
Bingo........
...Which is the reason why I consider Arlington to be the correct place for a SOF memorial. Should the memorial be a SOCOM level endeavor, the proponancy and branch questions would be negated. It would be Joint including a multitude of MOSs and Navy Rates.
Bingo........
Although Arlington National Cemetery is a national cemetery, it is one of two cemeteries maintained by the Department of the Army, not the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.
Due to the ever-decreasing space at the cemetery, and that the nature of memorials is to take up space that could otherwise be used to bury an eligible servicemember, the Army requires a joint or concurrent resolution from Congress before it will place new memorials onto the cemetery grounds.
You'll need to run it through the bureaucracy (this office and the SecArmy) and then get Congress to agree on it.
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/Bio%20-%20Condon_July%202010.pdf
Good luck.
Richard :munchin
MOO:
SOF at MacDill
SF at Bragg
Ranger at Benning
MARSOC at Lejeune
AFSOC at Hurlburt
NAVSPECWARGRU at Coronado
160th SOAR at Campbell
Richard
IMO, Richard hit the nail on the head. I try to go to ANC at least once a year (Rolling Thunder). I think Arlington's memorials should be geared more to the "big picture" memorials, i.e. The Wall (Vietnam), The Korean War memorial, the WWII memorial, etc. Granted these are all on the National Mall but that provides the atmosphere of the area. I think that a memorial to those who served during the current operations should be erected on or near the Mall in the near future.
As far as SOF goes, those memorials belong at the "home" bases of the units as Richard has stated. By doing that, I think it adds a significance to the memorial and brings a sense of pride and honor to the soldiers of the units.
These are the memorials in Arlington:
Americal Division Memorial (United States Army)
The Armenian-American Volunteer Memorial
Argonne Cross WWI Memorial
The Battle of the Bulge Memorial
Beirut Memorial
Canadian Cross of Sacrifice
The Catholic Chaplains Memorial
The Confederate Memorial
The Denmark Memorial To US Airmen
Eighth Air Force Memorial
First Marine Division Memorial
Indian Veterans of Vietnam Memorial
Iran Mission Memorial
Khobar Towers Memorial
The Laos Memorial
Lexington Memorial: American Revolution
The Lockerbie Memorial (Pan American Flight 103)
The Nurse's Memorial
The Persian Gulf War Memorial The Rough Riders Memorial
Seabees Memorial
The Somalia Memorial: Operation Restore Hope
The Shuttle Challenger Memorial
The Shuttle Columbia
Sixty-Third Infantry Division
The Spanish-American War Memorial
Tomb of the Unknowns
The United States Coast Guard Memorial
The Unknown Soldiers Of The Civil War
The Unknown Soldiers of The War of 1812
U.S. Coast Guard Memorial
The USS Maine Memorial
USS Thresher Memorial
Republic of Vietnam Rangers Memorial
War Correspondents Memorial
Women In Military Service To America Memorial
World War I Memorial
I think that a Special Forces or SOF memorial is fitting in accordance to the other specific commands being represented. I'd bet that many if not most of the units represented here also have memorials at their home bases as well but lobbied, and recieved permission. Ultimately, Arlington is not geared toward the "big picture" memorials but actually has a very broad variety in its representation. from big picture memorials such as the WWI memorial, to the very specific events of the Space Shuttle Challenger and Columbia.
I would also add that one of the the purposes of memorials in this setting isn't so much just for those of us who serve, but for the families of the fallen and of course all the other visitors as well. A SOF memorial in Arlington could perhaps never hold the same significance to us as much as the wall at USASOC does, but it would perhaps to many others....jd
Things change over time...and the situation at Arlington is no exception.
Even as a veteran, I cannot now be buried at Arlington because of the space issue, because I am not the recipient of a Silver Star or higher award for valor, and because I was not KIA while on active duty.
The space at Arlington has become limited in a way that was not a consideration when the memorials which are located there now were erected.
I have been told that SF is also the only branch of service which has approval from the VA to attach a 5" brass SF crest to the markers of our brethren.
IMO, foregoing some new memorial to SF/SOF which some will applaud and some will decry - other than at the bases where such forces call 'home' - and spending the effort and $ to affix the authorized SF crests so that the marker of every SF soldier becomes a memorial to all who view them is a much better way of honoring those who chose to follow what Robert Frost called "The Road Not Taken"...
TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;
Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,
And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
However, that is MOO and YMMV...
De oppresso liber.
Richard :munchin
[COLOR="Lime"]Things change over time...and the situation at Arlington is no exception.
I wouldn't disagree with your assessment, especially since I also brought up the space shortages issue in my first post on this thread. It a very real problem with no long term solutions available, and cannot be ignored. I also feel though that if enough support in the SOF community warranted an attempt to put such a memorial in place, it should be understood that this memorial would not be out of place since the broad variety of memorials represented in Arlington could include a SOF memorial.
SGM Kemper was right to use this poll as a good way to see what the feelings were on this subject, and I agree, there should be a "NO" option for the poll. Perhaps we wont reach a consensus but, its a worthy cause to explore.
The space in Arlington is finite and at some point in the future it will not accommodate the needs of the services and veterans. That said, if this is supported by the SF community, then this memorial would honor the "SOF community specifically" for many years to come, just like every other memorial and long after they stopped internments. Special Operations certainly deserves no less than favorable consideration for the recognition of those from Aaron Bank's generation, to the current generation's sacrifices, and to those that will follow long after those of us debating this are all gone.
I see your Robert Frost, and raise you.....
For The Fallen
They went with songs to the battle, they were young,
Straight of limb, true of eye, steady and aglow.
They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted;
They fell with their faces to the foe.
They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
But where our desires are and our hopes profound,
Felt as a well-spring that is hidden from sight,
To the innermost heart of their own land they are known
As the stars are known to the Night;
As the stars that shall be bright when we are dust,
Moving in marches upon the heavenly plain;
As the stars that are starry in the time of our darkness,
To the end, to the end, they remain.
-Laurence Binyon-
:munchin......jd
I see your Robert Frost, and raise you.....
For The Fallen
They went with songs to the battle, they were young,
Straight of limb, true of eye, steady and aglow.
They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted;
They fell with their faces to the foe.
They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
But where our desires are and our hopes profound,
Felt as a well-spring that is hidden from sight,
To the innermost heart of their own land they are known
As the stars are known to the Night;
As the stars that shall be bright when we are dust,
Moving in marches upon the heavenly plain;
As the stars that are starry in the time of our darkness,
To the end, to the end, they remain.
-Laurence Binyon-
:munchin......jd
Walt Whitman, (in part),
Afoot and light-hearted I take to the open road,
Healthy, free, the world before me,
The long brown path before me leading wherever I choose.
Henceforth I ask not good-fortune, I myself am good-fortune,
Henceforth I whimper no more, postpone no more, need nothing,
Done with indoor complaints, libraries, querulous criticisms,
Strong and content I travel the open road.
The earth, that is sufficient,
I do not want the constellations any nearer,
I know they are very well where they are,
I know they suffice for those who belong to them......
fasteddie565
02-15-2011, 11:05
Fellas, I was just there a few months ago and took a bunch of pictures......
Granted, the Shuttle memorials and Eagle Claw Memorials are much more grandiose than this, but have you guys seen this plaque? Its down hill from the Canadian memorial, northeast of the Tomb of the Unknown. I can post a mark on a map if I can find one.
fasteddie565
02-15-2011, 11:46
Its either the one in the green circle or the one to the right. Bad memory, the plaque is actually Northwest of the backside of the Tomb. The picture is facing West.
If I remember correctly, the shuttle memorial gets alot of attention. I saw a group of people taking photos, but only after placing thier coats on a marker just to their six, (snap, snap, click).
When they left, coats in arm, the marker revealed itself as Audie Murphy, MOH. The ground around his market was tread worn heavy, dead grass and mud.
It's taking the appearance of a Jim Morrison or Jimmy Hendrix site, so sad. I told the grounds keeper, he advised I write a letter, which I did, betting it has fallen on deaf ears.
Can someone in the area follow up????
The Reaper
02-15-2011, 12:58
Nick Rowe is also in that portion of Section 48, IIRC.
TR
fasteddie565
02-15-2011, 15:12
17949If I remember correctly, the shuttle memorial gets alot of attention. I saw a group of people taking photos, but only after placing thier coats on a marker just to their six, (snap, snap, click).
When they left, coats in arm, the marker revealed itself as Audie Murphy, MOH. The ground around his market was tread worn heavy, dead grass and mud.
It's taking the appearance of a Jim Morrison or Jimmy Hendrix site, so sad. I told the grounds keeper, he advised I write a letter, which I did, betting it has fallen on deaf ears.
Can someone in the area follow up????
Here is a picture of Audie Murphy's head stone. It looks brand new. There is a small walk way with a chain off of the main sidewalk. It looked very neat and clean like his new head stone. The map is looking West