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swatsurgeon
01-13-2011, 22:53
Sent to me by a friend...thought I would share.


This was in the Waco Tribune Herald, Waco , TX 18Nov2010
>
> Put me in charge ...
>
> Put me in charge of food stamps. I'd get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash
> for Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and
> beans, blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away. If
> you want steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.
>
> Put me in charge of Medicaid. The first thing I'd do is to get women
> Norplant birth control implants or tubal ligations. Then, we'll test
> recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine and document all tattoos and
> piercings. If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, smoke or get
> tats and piercings, then get a job.
>
> Put me in charge of government housing. Ever live in a military
> barracks? You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of
> repair. Your "home" will be subject to inspections anytime and
> possessions will be inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360,
> then get a job and your own place.
>
> In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week
> or you will report to a "government" job. It may be cleaning the
> roadways of trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we
> find for you. We will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and
> your blasting stereo and speakers and put that money toward the "common
> good."
>
> Before you write that I've violated someone's rights, realize that all
> of the above is voluntary. If you want our money, accept our rules..
> Before you say that this would be "demeaning" and ruin their "self
> esteem," consider that it wasn't that long ago that taking someone
> else's money for doing absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered self
> esteem.
>
> If we are expected to pay for other people's mistakes we should at least
> attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system
> rewards them for continuing to make bad choices.
>
> Alfred W. Evans, Gatesville

Not a bad way to begin changing the 'system'. Wonder if any politicians would agree?

ss

oifcmb24
01-13-2011, 23:07
I'd vote for him. :D

nmap
01-13-2011, 23:32
Today? No - no politicians would agree.

Tomorrow...say, about 2020...yes, I believe plenty will agree. And the recipients will be grateful.

wet dog
01-14-2011, 01:16
Sent to me by a friend...thought I would share.


This was in the Waco Tribune Herald, Waco , TX 18Nov2010
>
> Put me in charge ...
>
> Put me in charge of food stamps. I'd get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash
> for Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and
> beans, blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away. If
> you want steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.
>
> Put me in charge of Medicaid. The first thing I'd do is to get women
> Norplant birth control implants or tubal ligations. Then, we'll test
> recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine and document all tattoos and
> piercings. If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, smoke or get
> tats and piercings, then get a job.
>
> Put me in charge of government housing. Ever live in a military
> barracks? You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of
> repair. Your "home" will be subject to inspections anytime and
> possessions will be inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360,
> then get a job and your own place.
>
> In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week
> or you will report to a "government" job. It may be cleaning the
> roadways of trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we
> find for you. We will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and
> your blasting stereo and speakers and put that money toward the "common
> good."
>
> Before you write that I've violated someone's rights, realize that all
> of the above is voluntary. If you want our money, accept our rules..
> Before you say that this would be "demeaning" and ruin their "self
> esteem," consider that it wasn't that long ago that taking someone
> else's money for doing absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered self
> esteem.
>
> If we are expected to pay for other people's mistakes we should at least
> attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system
> rewards them for continuing to make bad choices.
>
> Alfred W. Evans, Gatesville

Not a bad way to begin changing the 'system'. Wonder if any politicians would agree?

ss

This is the kind of thinking that will get us in trouble at the SHOT show,...

I'll bring the Whiskey and cigars, you bring the stolen glasses from the hotel.

swatsurgeon
01-14-2011, 02:34
wet dog........ROGER THAT!!

Dusty
01-14-2011, 05:21
Not a bad way to begin changing the 'system'. Wonder if any politicians would agree?

ss

Wonder how many of those would be Democrat?

PedOncoDoc
01-14-2011, 05:42
I love the concept - if you want goverment assistance, be prepared to live a very bland and austere life, and if you f#@k around you will lose any and all assistance.

I do like the idea of mandated birth control while on assistance - too many kids being brought into this vicious cycle without any choice/say, and the odds of overcoming their environment are heavily against them. Tubal ligation is not a good option IMHO; it is not reversible if someone gets themself out of the rut and later wants to have kids, and surgery is expensive and not without risk. Every three-monthly Depo-Provera injections are quite effective, and many women don't have menstrual bleeding while on them so feminine hygiene expenses would not have to be covered for the women. If they do not show up for their quarterly injection, cut them off. What can we do to keep the boys in check as well?

Unfortunalty, I believe the crime rate would skyrocket if the concepts in the OP were enforced. Those who were not willing to support themselves in the first place will look for other easy paychecks - likely through illegal means.

Dusty
01-14-2011, 06:08
Those who were not willing to support themselves in the first place will look for other easy paychecks - likely through illegal means.

Many do that now, it seems.

PedOncoDoc
01-14-2011, 06:11
Many do that now, it seems.

Wholeheartedly agree - but I believe many more would be going down that route if their extravagant lifestyle on government assistance was regulated/restricted.

Dusty
01-14-2011, 06:20
Wholeheartedly agree - but I believe many more would be going down that route if their extravagant lifestyle on government assistance was regulated/restricted.

Roger that; there'd be wholesale rioting and looting, IMO.

Peregrino
01-14-2011, 08:11
If that's how they want to play - fine. It just means the rest of us can play "Korean shopkeeper". IIRC it worked out pretty well for certain parts of LA last time around. :munchin

nmap
01-14-2011, 13:15
You seem to miss the obvious: anybody that is really living that way while on government assistance is already doing something illegal. No way you can afford plasma screens and $60 video games on food stamps and unemployment.


Let us suppose an ostensibly middle-class family living well beyond its means with two wage earners and two children. Let us also suppose an expensive house, a mortgage to match, and a home equity loan on top of that. Toss in two one year old vehicles, each loaded with debt. Also toss in student loans. Add in high credit card debt. In addition, suppose minimal savings. By the way - home equity is substantially less than total debt.

Now suppose both wage earners lose their jobs.

They would still have a vast array of stuff - with modest resale value. They would have no income or liquid assets.

They might well need assistance.

By the way - I'm quite serious about the 2020 time frame. I think we'll see many people who fit the profile above, and they will need (and be grateful for) the beans and a cot.

However - they may be quite resentful of their fall. Therein, perhaps, lies a hint at where the political environment in the U.S. will go.

Dusty
01-14-2011, 13:50
Anybody who hangs his ass out over the lion cage by over-extending on credit and gets bit has nobody to blame but himself.

Oldrotorhead
01-14-2011, 14:23
The only thing I could add is proof of citizenship for everyone in the house hold.

Surf n Turf
01-14-2011, 14:30
Anybody who hangs his ass out over the lion cage by over-extending on credit and gets bit has nobody to blame but himself.

Dusty,
I am in agreement with the whole plan – BUT

Imagine a young family, (Father, Mom, 2 kids) Dad is a carpenter, fully employed. Mom works at the local bank. Married for 6 years. Grandma, who lives down the street, baby sits the kids until Mom gets home.
Combined income is $45.000. They purchase a house, for $95,000, with a down payment (from savings) of $20,000, and a mortgage of $75,000.
They have debt of $6,500 dollars (Dad’s used truck), and $4,500 in the bank
Mom gets pregnant, and in the 6th month has to cut back her hours at the Bank. Shortly thereafter, the slump in construction catches up with Dad, and he can find no work.
Is this an example of “overextending on credit” I think not – and I’m sure that the above is a small percent of those on public assistance. Did this family make any mistakes or bad choices – Again, I think not.
First, we have to separate the “freeloaders” from the neighbors we would like to help.
For the freeloaders, the above remedy’s are reasonable – for the above example – not so much.
SnT

Dozer523
01-14-2011, 14:39
Let us suppose an ostensibly middle-class family living well beyond its means with two wage earners and two children. Let us also suppose an expensive house, a mortgage to match, and a home equity loan on top of that. Toss in two one year old vehicles, each loaded with debt. Also toss in student loans. Add in high credit card debt. In addition, suppose minimal savings. By the way - home equity is substantially less than total debt. NMAP, either get out of my backyard or come in for a beer.

Claemore
01-14-2011, 15:02
Dusty,
I am in agreement with the whole plan – BUT

Imagine a young family, (Father, Mom, 2 kids) Dad is a carpenter, fully employed. Mom works at the local bank. Married for 6 years. Grandma, who lives down the street, baby sits the kids until Mom gets home.
Combined income is $45.000. They purchase a house, for $95,000, with a down payment (from savings) of $20,000, and a mortgage of $75,000.
They have debt of $6,500 dollars (Dad’s used truck), and $4,500 in the bank
Mom gets pregnant, and in the 6th month has to cut back her hours at the Bank. Shortly thereafter, the slump in construction catches up with Dad, and he can find no work.
Is this an example of “overextending on credit” I think not – and I’m sure that the above is a small percent of those on public assistance. Did this family make any mistakes or bad choices – Again, I think not.
First, we have to separate the “freeloaders” from the neighbors we would like to help.
For the freeloaders, the above remedy’s are reasonable – for the above example – not so much.
SnT

+1.

wet dog
01-14-2011, 15:07
First, we have to separate the “freeloaders” from the neighbors we would like to help.
For the freeloaders, the above remedy’s are reasonable – for the above example – not so much.
SnT

Great example, thanks.

Dusty
01-14-2011, 15:07
Dusty,
I am in agreement with the whole plan – BUT

Imagine a young family, (Father, Mom, 2 kids) Dad is a carpenter, fully employed. Mom works at the local bank. Married for 6 years. Grandma, who lives down the street, baby sits the kids until Mom gets home.
Combined income is $45.000. They purchase a house, for $95,000, with a down payment (from savings) of $20,000, and a mortgage of $75,000.
They have debt of $6,500 dollars (Dad’s used truck), and $4,500 in the bank
Mom gets pregnant, and in the 6th month has to cut back her hours at the Bank. Shortly thereafter, the slump in construction catches up with Dad, and he can find no work.
Is this an example of “overextending on credit” I think not – and I’m sure that the above is a small percent of those on public assistance. Did this family make any mistakes or bad choices – Again, I think not.
First, we have to separate the “freeloaders” from the neighbors we would like to help.
For the freeloaders, the above remedy’s are reasonable – for the above example – not so much.
SnT

Would your family had been in better financial shape if Dad had paid cash for his truck? What if Mom hadn't got pregnant?

There are an infinite number of hypothetical scenarios you can dream up, but I assume you know exactly what I'm talking about. Borrowing 125% of the value of a "mcmansion" when your debt-to-income ratio is on the edge, and then plopping zero down for a Yukon XL for soccer @ $500. per month, a Rolex, high dollar clothes-whatever-the huge uptick in repossessions of late isn't solely due to a slow job market.

And the damn "stimulus" hasn't done anything to slow it down...

Until taxes are cut and criminally extravagant government spending is curtailed, the economy won't turn around; anybody who uses credit until it does to any degree is gambling.

Remember, a large part of the mortgages in question are no-doc subprime paper. Nobody forces the homeowner to sign for a house he knows he can't pay for.

You can thank Barney the F-word, FDR Raines, Chris Dodd and others for making unaffordable loans affordable-that has contributed to the fiscal bubble more than anything else.

wet dog
01-14-2011, 15:16
I would say not all debt is bad, some debt is acceptable, but too much of anything can kick you in the ass.

For a working carpenter, having a "newer" truck aids in having reliable transportation, a business deduction and advertising space, a second vehicle for a growing family, etc.

New trucks are easier to sell, which is a timing issue if you see your business begin to slow.

Regardless, this is the 'American Family' I'm more interested in helping, then the "Gray Goose" ordering crowd accross town.

Dusty
01-14-2011, 15:20
My post said "...overextending..." The hypothetical carpenter in the scenario above doesn't appear to be doing that. His problem was losing his job and his wife's job. That's an illogical comparison to my premise.

ryno
01-14-2011, 15:21
In Indiana the now Republican controlled state legislature is pushing a bill to require drug testing to receive unemployment. There is already opposition from the left, but I have yet to hear a reasonable argument from them.

Buffalobob
01-14-2011, 15:27
Put me in charge ...
>
> Put me in charge of food stamps. I'd get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash
> for Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and
> beans, blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away. If
> you want steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.
>

The health care bill from vitamin deficiency would be immense.

The moron who wrote that should stick to his fantasy land ranting and not try running dietary programs.

Dozer523
01-14-2011, 15:40
In Indiana the now Republican controlled state legislature is pushing a bill to require drug testing to receive unemployment. There is already opposition from the left, but I have yet to hear a reasonable argument from them.

Well good luck with that sh!t. That is gross violation of the fourth amendment. Oh wait. . . having a job is a pre-requisite for Constitutional Rights. Oh wait . . . owning land is a requisite for having the vote ohh, that, and a pointy-out-thingy between your legs.
No wait . . . that was one hundred plus years ago.

Most people out of work don't want to be out of work. Seems FDR figured that out in the 30's. If some mom wants to use her food stamps to buy her kids hoho's it's not our damn business. She is making a choice. Probably forgoing something else.

Our Armory got a ton of Stimulus money for long delayed repairs. I watched 5 guys do the whole damn thing in 6 months. 5 guys. . . I'd have rather seen 15 guys do it in 3 months but that would have cut into the construction company's profit.

Not everyone who needs help is a free-loader. Some just believed the American Dream included them.

nmap
01-14-2011, 16:43
Anybody who hangs his ass out over the lion cage by over-extending on credit and gets bit has nobody to blame but himself.

True. Absolutely true. That said, there are, I think, many people in that position - and they won't blame themselves. Instead, they will pin the fault on everyone but themselves.

And, too, debt involves assumptions about future economic activity and the ability to repay. Given the right set of assumptions, high debt at high interest rates can be a very good idea. Likewise, even a small debt at low rates can be a bad idea - under some assumptions.

Here's the problem - we're asking the ordinary family to do an analysis worthy of PIMCO. They don't have the tools to do that, so they go with a path they deem "reasonable" - one which will prove disastrously wrong from time to time. The question becomes - who do we help, how much do we help them, and how heavy a price do we extract for that help.

nmap
01-14-2011, 16:53
NMAP, either get out of my backyard or come in for a beer.

OK...I'll bring the pizza.... :D

ryno
01-14-2011, 17:49
That is gross violation of the fourth amendment.
Explain please. I wouldn't think it would be since unemployment is optional. Or, am I missing sarcasm here?

The Reaper
01-14-2011, 18:02
If some mom wants to use her food stamps to buy her kids hoho's it's not our damn business. She is making a choice. Probably forgoing something else.

It is if she is using my money to buy them, especially if she is choosing to forgo work.

Most of the people I see paying with WIC cards are buying pre-prepared food and are not buying staples to cook. Always seem to be money for the cigarettes and alcohol after the taxpayer picks up the tab for the food though, as well as some illicit drugs in many cases.

The kids are already getting two meals a day under the free school breakfast and lunch program, so basically, we are stocking their government homes with junk food for dinner and weekends.

TR

Gypsy
01-15-2011, 18:32
Until taxes are cut and criminally extravagant government spending is curtailed, the economy won't turn around;


THIS.

Not just for local states (yes IL comes to mind, BOHICA...a 66% tax hike the POS govt voted in and yes I need to move) but for the big government in general.

Dozer523
01-15-2011, 20:25
Explain please. I wouldn't think it would be since unemployment is optional. Or, am I missing sarcasm here?

No sarcasm. It is (IMO) an unreasonable search, there is no evidence linking unemployment to drug use. There is no probable cause to think a crime has been committed because being unemployed isn't a crime.
Unemployment compensation is the individuals based on circumstances outside their control. They got laid off, they got fired (yeah, yeah, sometime get fired for stupid reasons or in many states for no stated reason). Is eating and paying bills optional, too?
Which, brings us to the reason UE exsits in the first place. If enough people are out of work they don't create the demand for goods and services leading to more people being out of work. So UE really protects the economy not the individual. as for Hoho's I bet Hostess doesn't care who buys them or with what.It is if she is using my money to buy them, especially if she is choosing to forgo work. TR It WAS your money, it isn't anymore. Take that up with your representative not the lady trying to feed her kid.

GratefulCitizen
01-15-2011, 20:45
It is if she is using my money to buy them, especially if she is choosing to forgo work.

Most of the people I see paying with WIC cards are buying pre-prepared food and are not buying staples to cook. Always seem to be money for the cigarettes and alcohol after the taxpayer picks up the tab for the food though, as well as some illicit drugs in many cases.

The kids are already getting two meals a day under the free school breakfast and lunch program, so basically, we are stocking their government homes with junk food for dinner and weekends.

TR

Spot on.
Not all economic activity (and work) involves financial transaction.

My wife hasn't been paid by an employer for over a decade.
Her economic activity and workload has been tremendous.

Don't have a problem with giving staples to the needy.
The very least they can do is participate in a few stages of the production process.

The labor and energy not allocated to preparing their food can be used for other purposes.

ryno
01-16-2011, 17:10
No sarcasm. It is (IMO) an unreasonable search, there is no evidence linking unemployment to drug use. There is no probable cause to think a crime has been committed because being unemployed isn't a crime.
Unemployment compensation is the individuals based on circumstances outside their control. They got laid off, they got fired (yeah, yeah, sometime get fired for stupid reasons or in many states for no stated reason). Is eating and paying bills optional, too?
Which, brings us to the reason UE exsits in the first place. If enough people are out of work they don't create the demand for goods and services leading to more people being out of work. So UE really protects the economy not the individual. as for Hoho's I bet Hostess doesn't care who buys them or with what. It WAS your money, it isn't anymore. Take that up with your representative not the lady trying to feed her kid.

Fair enough and some valid points. I don't think the fourth amendment would apply as the drug test is not for criminal prosecution, but for a voluntary benefit. I'm not a lawyer or legal expert, but I used to be a cop (hopefully will be again soon, but that's a different story). It would be no different than the other requirements for drawing unemployment. At least that's my take on it.

1stindoor
01-18-2011, 10:10
It WAS your money, it isn't anymore. Take that up with your representative not the lady trying to feed her kid.

Therein, lies the crux of the problem IMHO. We are taking our anger out on those that are the recipients instead of those that are taking our funds and determining what those funds can be used to purchase.

NovemberPatriot
01-19-2011, 01:09
This nice little story never fails to put a smile on my face.

"I recently asked my friend 's little girl what she wanted to be when
she grows up. She said she wanted to be President some day. Both of
her parents, liberal Democrats, were standing there, so I asked her,
' If you were President what would be the first thing you would do? '


She replied, ' I ' d give food and houses to all the homeless people. '
Her parents beamed.


' Wow...what a worthy goal. ' I told her, ' But you don 't have to wait
until you're President to do that. You can come over to my house and
mow the lawn, pull weeds, and sweep my yard, and I ' ll pay you $50. Then I'll
take you over to the grocery store where the homeless guy hangs out,
and you can give him the $50 to use toward food and a new house. '


She thought that over for a few seconds, then she looked me straight
in the eye and asked, ' Why doesn't the homeless guy come over and do the work, and you can just pay him the $50? '

I said, ' Welcome to the Republican Party.' "

:cool:

Dusty
01-19-2011, 06:22
This nice little story never fails to put a smile on my face.

"I recently asked my friend 's little girl what she wanted to be when
she grows up. She said she wanted to be President some day. Both of
her parents, liberal Democrats, were standing there, so I asked her,
' If you were President what would be the first thing you would do? '


She replied, ' I ' d give food and houses to all the homeless people. '
Her parents beamed.


' Wow...what a worthy goal. ' I told her, ' But you don 't have to wait
until you're President to do that. You can come over to my house and
mow the lawn, pull weeds, and sweep my yard, and I ' ll pay you $50. Then I'll
take you over to the grocery store where the homeless guy hangs out,
and you can give him the $50 to use toward food and a new house. '


She thought that over for a few seconds, then she looked me straight
in the eye and asked, ' Why doesn't the homeless guy come over and do the work, and you can just pay him the $50? '

I said, ' Welcome to the Republican Party.' "

:cool:

lol Reminds me of this:

http://diversitylane.com/images/samples/diversity%20lane_no%20more%20dreamhouse.jpg

PedOncoDoc
01-19-2011, 08:16
The welfare state destroys the family unit? Huh. I would have thought it was men creating babies they can't afford to feed and then leaving baby-mommy to cope with it by herself. Interesting take.

A man cannot create a baby on his own and should not take all the blame for this one.

Besides - they're not leaving baby-mommy to cope, they're exercising their "reproductive rights/freedom."

Paslode
01-19-2011, 08:37
The welfare state destroys the family unit? Huh. I would have thought it was men creating babies they can't afford to feed and then leaving baby-mommy to cope with it by herself. Interesting take.

The Welfare Systems subsidizes persons for reproducing children they cannot afford to maintain.....is like a slot machine or money tree for those that wish to abuse the system. Mommy and Daddy need some additional bank so they just go make another.

Dusty
01-19-2011, 08:45
The Welfare Systems subsidizes persons for reproducing children they cannot afford to maintain.....is like a slot machine or money tree for those that wish to abuse the system. Mommy and Daddy need some additional bank so they just go make another.

The welfare system is just a sneaky form of slavery devised and implemented by liberal politicians.

Dusty
01-19-2011, 09:28
No, he's just the only one that gets to leave afterwards.



It is what it is. It's put there to help people. If it is abused, that's the fault of the abusers -- who give a bad name to the non-abusers and the system in general.

There's a difference between help and enable. The system enables the abusers to waste wage-earners' money.

Oldrotorhead
01-19-2011, 09:50
The welfare system is just a sneaky form of slavery devised and implemented by liberal politicians.

You hit this right on the mark. LBJ and he "Great Society" made it financially more rewarding to have the male out of the house. Well at least reported out of the house. Little effort was made to force the woman to name and get court ordered child support. This system has now created in some cases three generations of dependent people. This has created a class of people that are slaves to the system.

ZonieDiver
01-19-2011, 09:54
your only other choice was a box behind the Quickie Mart

Where are those old, large "Goodwill boxes" when you need them! I am actually considering this as a "retirement option" to lower housing costs.

Apu has already said he'd throw the out of date Twinkies to me! :D

Richard
01-19-2011, 10:25
The welfare system is just a sneaky form of slavery devised and implemented by liberal politicians.

Origins of the Welfare State in America

This article was originally delivered by the author at the Mises Institute's "Evils of the Welfare State" conference in Lake Bluff, Illinois, April 30 – May 2, 1993.

Murray N. Rothbard (1926–1995), Dean of the Austrian School, economist, economic historian, and libertarian political philosopher.

http://mises.org/daily/2225

Biography of Murray N. Rothbard (1926-1995)

http://mises.org/about/3249

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

1stindoor
01-19-2011, 10:58
No, he's just the only one that gets to leave afterwards.



If that were the truth I would have been a little less busy as a 1SG.

GratefulCitizen
01-19-2011, 18:21
__________________

How exactly?

I've heard people say you get more money, bigger apartment. I don't know what state you live in, but here in MI you almost never get cash assistance -- and when you do it's like $100 per month. Food stamps are capped at $400 per month no matter how big your family is and
although there is some subsidized gov housing -- it isn't any place you would choose to live unless your only other choice was a box behind the Quickie Mart.

All forms of aid are fungible.
When someone doesn't have to spend in one area, they are able to divert those unspent resources somewhere else.

It would be nice to see the federal government completely removed from the welfare/income redistribution business.
Let the states alone decide what is appropriate for their respective segments of the population; the people will vote with their feet.

Dusty
01-20-2011, 11:13
__________________

How exactly?

I've heard people say you get more money, bigger apartment. I don't know what state you live in, but here in MI you almost never get cash assistance -- and when you do it's like $100 per month. Food stamps are capped at $400 per month no matter how big your family is and
although there is some subsidized gov housing -- it isn't any place you would choose to live unless your only other choice was a box behind the Quickie Mart.

I said "abusers".

I don't begrudge you your children's Doritos. I'm talking about D'Aquawn and Lafawnda driving an escalade with 4K worth of gold in their grills and going to the club every night while collecting welfare and stamps. That's my money.

x SF med
01-20-2011, 15:04
Sent to me by a friend...thought I would share.


This was in the Waco Tribune Herald, Waco , TX 18Nov2010
>
> Put me in charge ...
>
> Put me in charge of food stamps. I'd get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash
> for Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and
> beans, blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away. If
> you want steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.
>
> Put me in charge of Medicaid. The first thing I'd do is to get women
> Norplant birth control implants or tubal ligations. Then, we'll test
> recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine and document all tattoos and
> piercings. If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, smoke or get
> tats and piercings, then get a job.
>
> Put me in charge of government housing. Ever live in a military
> barracks? You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of
> repair. Your "home" will be subject to inspections anytime and
> possessions will be inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360,
> then get a job and your own place.
>
> In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week
> or you will report to a "government" job. It may be cleaning the
> roadways of trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we
> find for you. We will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and
> your blasting stereo and speakers and put that money toward the "common
> good."
>
> Before you write that I've violated someone's rights, realize that all
> of the above is voluntary. If you want our money, accept our rules..
> Before you say that this would be "demeaning" and ruin their "self
> esteem," consider that it wasn't that long ago that taking someone
> else's money for doing absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered self
> esteem.
>
> If we are expected to pay for other people's mistakes we should at least
> attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system
> rewards them for continuing to make bad choices.
>
> Alfred W. Evans, Gatesville

Not a bad way to begin changing the 'system'. Wonder if any politicians would agree?

ss

funny... those ewrre pretty much the rules for the WPA and CCC, except, there was a mandatory education clause, and PT every morning... and a lot of the projects done by those organizations are still standing, functinal and have historic value.... y'know like National Parks and stuff...

Dusty
01-20-2011, 16:11
Origins of the Welfare State in America

This article was originally delivered by the author at the Mises Institute's "Evils of the Welfare State" conference in Lake Bluff, Illinois, April 30 – May 2, 1993.

Murray N. Rothbard (1926–1995), Dean of the Austrian School, economist, economic historian, and libertarian political philosopher.

http://mises.org/daily/2225

Biography of Murray N. Rothbard (1926-1995)

http://mises.org/about/3249

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

That article should be required reading for basically everybody in the world.
Outstanding article.

Dusty
01-21-2011, 07:38
Murray Rothbert, by the way -- an over-educated, ignorant talking head.


What is he ignorant of, specifically?

Incidentally, if it weren't for the "welfare" system, do you actually believe most of these women would be gestating so eagerly?

Dusty
01-21-2011, 07:50
Seriously doubt the man had ever needed, or known anyone that needed any kind of public assistance. So he's speaking from the ivory tower about something in an abstract academic way of which he knows absolutely nothing in a practical sense.

Kind of like me holding forth on the military on this forum, yes?

You are not that naive, Dusty. Of course, they would still be having babies. That's a cultural thing -- the need for someone that will give them unconditional love. A lack of any kind of self esteem whatsoever.

You're right. I'm not that naive.

Richard
01-21-2011, 07:52
GROUP HUG! :rolleyes:

Richard :munchin

1stindoor
01-21-2011, 07:56
GROUP HUG! :rolleyes:

Richard :munchin

awwww...I feel all warm and mushy (and loved) now.

Pete
01-21-2011, 08:31
Seriously doubt the man had ever needed, or known anyone that needed any kind of public assistance. So he's speaking from the ivory tower about something in an abstract academic way of which he knows absolutely nothing in a practical sense.
.

How about Star Parker? Think she knows about the system? Think she should /could be a qualified voice on the subject? She pretty much compares welfare to the D's plantation for Blacks.

But what would she know about it.

Dozer523
01-21-2011, 08:32
GROUP HUG! :rolleyes:

Richard :munchin Awwwwwww I feel better. Do you feel better? No? Good. Get back to work.

Sigaba
01-21-2011, 10:53
Seriously doubt the man had ever needed, or known anyone that needed any kind of public assistance. So he's speaking from the ivory tower about something in an abstract academic way of which he knows absolutely nothing in a practical sense.
Now that's some serious guesswork.

tonyz
01-21-2011, 11:19
That's a cultural thing -- the need for someone that will give them unconditional love. A lack of any kind of self esteem whatsoever.

Everyone can understand making a mistake - I suspect that it is the second, third, fourth - causing the most concern.

TrapLine
01-21-2011, 11:36
Everyone can understand making a mistake - I suspect that it is the second, third, fourth - causing the most concern.

Except Chinese mothers, apparently:p.

tonyz
01-21-2011, 11:39
Except Chinese mothers, apparently:p.

...it's a cultural thing ;)

Buffalobob
01-21-2011, 12:31
Oh Good Lord. Don't shoot the messenger. My sister works with these teens, the ones having babies at 12, 13, 14. That's the reason.

I do not do social work but thankfully there are people like your sister who do.

I and my daughter work in those neighborhoods.

It is very seldom that we spend more than four hours in a poor community without an African American male approaching us and inquiring about a job. There is nothing simple about being poor, Black, and male and never has been and there is nothing simple about being a poor single mother either.

You can go and look at my profile. Then consider when I was four years old I was on welfare and all the electricity had been turned off and there was no heat and there was no food. 59 years later I can still remember being cold and hungry. That is the only thing I can remember from being four years old.

Dusty
01-21-2011, 12:54
You can go and look at my profile. Then consider when I was four years old I was on welfare and all the electricity had been turned off and there was no heat and there was no food. 59 years later I can still remember being cold and hungry. That is the only thing I can remember from being four years old.

What was the welfare system called in 1951?

nmap
01-21-2011, 12:58
I suppose the real question about welfare, poverty, and all the rest is: What benefit do the payers gain from the system that generates the payments, benefits, or whatever to various recipients?

One possibility is setting up a system that protects every member of the society from adversity. Another is to buy peace. Still another is the perception of a sort of moral obligation - a kind of noblesse oblige. None of those seem to fit the facts, nor to describe the current reality.

Those paying into the system may wonder what's in it for them. Until a persuasive answer exists, there will probably be little interest in helping the recipients. If the economy declines, as I expect it to, then those making payments will decline in number and means just as those seeking payments will increase in number and desperation. That mix may lead to some interesting times.

plato
01-21-2011, 13:55
What was the welfare system called in 1951?

Living with relatives. Worked very well for my Dad's family, as I recall.

Buffalobob
01-21-2011, 14:08
What was the welfare system called in 1951?

"Child hatred" just like now.

Dusty
01-21-2011, 14:41
I remember being cold and hungry when I was like, eight. I had to lure this big-ass wolf into a narrow cave so I could kill it with a good spear thrust. I skinned it and wore the fur back to the barracks.

Sigaba
01-21-2011, 14:55
I remember being cold and hungry when I was like, eight. I had to lure this big-ass wolf into a narrow cave so I could kill it with a good spear thrust. I skinned it and wore the fur back to the barracks.Does the wolf have to be a wolf? Or could it be a cyborg that looks like Scarlett Johansson?

And maybe...just hear us out...it could be spring, not winter. And instead of an actual cave, it could be a loft in Manhattan that has a man cave in it. Get it?

And maybe she's not a cyborg but a marketing executive. (Yeah, yeah, like there's a difference....) No, no, no. We LOOOVE your idea. We just think it would work better as a romcom. (Did we mention that Jerry Butler is interested. Well, we hear that he is.)

Dusty
01-21-2011, 15:44
LMAO romcom :D:D:D

nmap
01-21-2011, 20:54
Social safety nets to take care of folks who can no longer take care of themselves or for people temporarily knocked on their rear by a bad economy or financial crisis I think are fine, those are different than a system that is a cradle-to-grave system that essentially pays people not to work and incentivizes laziness.


How?

No, really. How, exactly, does one draw that line?

If one does it by duration or total benefits then some of the ones mentioned won't be helped. On the other hand, even with limits those who wish to game the system can and will do so.

Richard
01-21-2011, 20:59
I remember being cold and hungry when I was like, eight. I had to lure this big-ass wolf into a narrow cave so I could kill it with a good spear thrust. I skinned it and wore the fur back to the barracks.

You and Jose, huh. Wonder why he left that chapter out of his book? ;)

Richard

Todd 1
01-22-2011, 01:32
She's a been there, done that. And her argument is that moral values and families are the key to ending poverty which is exactly what I'm trying to say as well.

Moral values and families are long gone and sadly I don't think their coming back. :(

90 pregnancies at Memphis, Tennessee high school

Memphis, Tenn. (WREG) -- About 90 students at a Memphis High School are either pregnant, or have been recently.

The startling news was confirmed by a high ranking city official and comes as the community plans to roll out a new initiative to help combat the problem.

However, one Frayser High School graduate says teen pregnancy is not a new problem for the school.

"When we would come back from summer break, there would be a thousand people pregnant. We were like, 'What's going on?'" joked Alicia Williamson, who graduated from Frayser in 2004.

"There were a whole lot of bellies. You had to watch out so you didn't bump into them. Being 2011, I thought a lot of them would have thought this is not the right way to go, having babies during school time," she added.

The organization, Girls, Inc. teaches girls about preventing pregnancy.

Deborah Hester Harrison, who heads the organization, says Memphis' teen pregnancy rate stands at between 15 and 20 percent, almost twice the national average.

In the Frayser zip code, the rate is about 26 percent. Harrison partly blames the media.

"So much of our society is sexually oriented. As adults we can look at that and it doesn't impact us, but kids are different," Harrison said.

It's why Girls, Inc. offers classes where teenage girls "care for" computerized babies to give them a feel for what teenage parenthood is like.

The organization will also be part of a new initiative tentatively scheduled to be introduced next week.

http://www.wtsp.com/news/mostpop/story.aspx?storyid=168449&provider=top


The next generation of welfare ho's.

Dusty
01-22-2011, 04:36
You and Jose, huh. Wonder why he left that chapter out of his book? ;)

Richard

Am I the only one on this board who saw the romcom "300"? I know it sucked, but I was relating the current situation to the system they had in Sparta back in the day.

In retrospect, I realize how obscure and relatively unrelated a reference it is...

Richard
01-22-2011, 05:44
Am I the only one on this board who saw the romcom "300"? I know it sucked, but I was relating the current situation to the system they had in Sparta back in the day.

In retrospect, I realize how obscure and relatively unrelated a reference it is...

It may be obscure in AR because I doubt that it's been dubbed in 'Sooo-eee' yet. ;)

Richard :munchin

Dusty
01-22-2011, 06:33
It may be obscure in AR because I doubt that it's been dubbed in 'Sooo-eee' yet. ;)

Richard :munchin

lol THIS HERE...IS...SPARTA!!!!!!:D

Dusty
01-22-2011, 07:51
Completely F&*CKIN un-called for. And if you're going to be offensive, try doing it with correct punctuation. It would be "hos." No possessive.

They didn't get knocked up by themselves. Why are the women always the "hos" ?


Yeah!

And why are men always the "baby daddies"?

Dusty
01-22-2011, 08:05
*groan* You're killin' me Dusty!


I don't know, ma'am, it's not funny in a way, because of the hard times they have, but for the most part, you gotta figure it can only go a few ways:

1. They're too stupid too know what causes babies.
2. They don't know how to use contraceptives.
or
3. They want the babies to generate income.

I'm not talking about ALL recipients, and I don't disparage social help. My own daughter is legally blind, has been diagnosed with autism, PKU, biotenedase, Angelman's syndrome and CP and can't talk, change herself, whatever. One doctor just said, "She's one of those funny kids," after failing to figure out what was wrong. She receives SSSI, and was born at Womack with a bad APGAR score.

I definitely don't tear up the check every month.

Once again, it's the abusers who piss me and some others off to no end.

Richard
01-22-2011, 08:31
Once again, it's the abusers who piss me and some others off to no end.

Bingo!

Richard :munchin

Todd 1
01-22-2011, 08:44
Completely F&*CKIN un-called for. And if you're going to be offensive, try doing it with correct punctuation. It would be "hos." No possessive.

Maybe if the the young men and women from Frayser high school were sat down and offended in the past they might not have become teen parents.

Buffalobob
01-23-2011, 06:50
but for the most part, you gotta figure it can only go a few ways:

1. They're too stupid too know what causes babies.
2. They don't know how to use contraceptives.
or
3. They want the babies to generate income.

Some part of the reason for teen pregnancy rates is much the same as the reason the army likes to have the young kids go to war. Study after study has shown that they have a very low awareness and concern for risks and consequences. The thought given to the effect of current activities on future outcomes increases somewhere around age 25. Secondly, the general acceptance of certain types of behavior has changed since we were young and perhaps no where is it better highlighted than by the young Palin girl and how society views her and the baby.

What my daughter and I do is study litter rates and types in poor communities. The types and amounts of litter changes as you approach a school or recreation center. The rates will almost double and types will change to predominantly candy and chip bags. The same age group who gets themselves started into a troubled future by pregnancy or crime are the same ones that give no thought to the placement of the the candy wrapper. The people who clean up litter in those communities are the home owners who are about 60+ years old. You will see them out there with a broom and rake.


My son brought "300" home with him for Christmas and I watched it four times. I love gory B movies such as Doom. Some of he American Indians had cultural practices which sorted out the weak. It is not uncommon but it is a cultural system that is not embraced in the United States. Such things as assisted suicide for those of us who would not like to linger on in pain are regulated against. One of the reasons I don't mind elk hunting alone is that when it is time to go one might as well go ahead and go with your boots on.

Richard
01-23-2011, 11:33
Lots of info on adolescent behaviors here:

http://www.cdc.gov/HealthyYouth/az/index.htm

Richard :munchin

Todd 1
01-23-2011, 17:36
Create babies to be loved and feel power…….Zero dollars.

Rent, food, child care, phone, heat, air conditioning, clothes, cable tv, internet, transportation, education, heath care, cash…….Zero dollars.

Create more babies to be more loved and feel more power…….Zero dollars.

More rent, food, child care, phone, heat, air conditioning, clothes, cable tv, internet, transportation, education, heath care, cash…….Zero dollars.

Watch the 9-5ers (plus weekends and holidays) bust their asses to pay for my lifestyle (then their bills) because I just want to be loved and feel power....... Priceless

plato
01-23-2011, 18:18
Having two sons, I've been lecturing them about this since they were about 8. Yea, they looked at me like I was nuts. But I made it very clear that if there is a pregnancy and one of them is responsible I will make them get jobs, pay child support (at least) and change diapers. Mom is not raising her grandchildren. You will be responsible.

Seriously, if I could sew the condom on right now I would. :D

Many years ago, when the only option that a "decent couple" followed was to marry and raise that child, I would have agreed with you. However, when the decision to bring a child into the world became the mothers and the father of the child was powerless to say yes or no, it caused a different outlook.

Yes, two people to cause the early days of a pregnancy.
The mother is the only cause of the *birth* of a child.

Sew?
Doesn't a condom sound like something that should screw on?

ZonieDiver
01-23-2011, 20:36
Many years ago, when the only option that a "decent couple" followed was to marry and raise that child, I would have agreed with you. However, when the decision to bring a child into the world became the mothers and the father of the child was powerless to say yes or no, it caused a different outlook.

Yes, two people to cause the early days of a pregnancy.
The mother is the only cause of the *birth* of a child.

Sew?
Doesn't a condom sound like something that should screw on?

No, because if it screws on, you could screw it off!:D

Richard
01-23-2011, 20:48
All this talk about screwing around tends to excite my lustful desires...and I'm not young - imagine what it would do to a teenager. ;)

Richard :munchin

wet dog
01-23-2011, 22:56
I don't know, ma'am, it's not funny in a way, because of the hard times they have, but for the most part, you gotta figure it can only go a few ways:

1. They're too stupid too know what causes babies.
2. They don't know how to use contraceptives.
or
3. They want the babies to generate income.

Susan Faluti talked about this in her book "Stiffed".

As a 'woman's liber', she had no explaination, and I take my hat off to her for not drawing pointless-endless conclusions, her research was SPOT ON.

7/8 of all boys are raised by single mom's, these young boys grow up learning what buttons to push on women. Maybe that's the answer, keep families strong, keep dads, uncles, grandpa around to teach what manhood is.

I could no better tell a young girl how to be a woman any more than a woman can teach my sons how to be men.

The book should be available in most public libraries by now. Check it out.

Richard
01-24-2011, 04:52
7/8 of all boys are raised by single mom's...

I find that stat a bit incredulous - I'd like to see her source for it.

Richard :munchin

Dusty
01-24-2011, 05:58
The sanctity of childbirth has virtually disappeared. Too many view it in this context now:

:46

http://www.*******.com/watch?v=GbZJYWjkAPo

Dusty
01-24-2011, 07:00
Well, Plato, the thing is, women weren't exactly given a vote in the whole reproduction issue. Cause trust me if we were, men could get pregnant too.

I've heard this argument before and it doesn't cut any ice with me. If you know how babies are made, then as a man you have a few choices -- have sex, don't have sex, condom, vasectomy.

Once the bun is in the oven your choices are pretty much over.

Very true.

Back when I was coming of age, the ideal was to abstain from sex until you married a girl, and not to marry the girl until you were able to support her.

That ideal has degenerated to the point that MTV has been accused of child pornography in its acurate portrayal of contemporary teen sex.

It's a good example of moral decay in our society, IMO.

Richard
01-24-2011, 07:53
Back when I was coming of age, the ideal was to abstain from sex until you married a girl, and not to marry the girl until you were able to support her.

Doesn't that very same 'ideal' remain today...and has the 'reality' of the issue ever been any different? I think History says otherwise, and the answer remains Y to the first and N to the second.

When I was coming of age, the ideal was the same as Dusty mentioned...but...the reality was also the same as I see it today among teens - to ignore that tired old morality being preached by our elders and try our damndest to experience the powerfully mysterious and libidinous lure of sex at the earliest age possible - which, not unlike today, worked for some, didn't work so well for most others.

From the point-of-view of an educator, I've found it isn't all that much different now than it was then...except...we discuss it more openly now for good cause because an STD today can literally mean a potential death sentence.

Now - a whole new issue we're dealing with amongst teens for the past couple of years is one of those "What is the definition of 'is'?" discussions - the notion that to remain a virgin until marriage is still important...but to achieve that 'ideal' merely means not having vaginal intercourse, that oral sex and anal sex are not really having sex because they do not lead to procreation. :eek:

Life has never been easy and never will be...but we live with it.

Richard :munchin

1stindoor
01-24-2011, 07:58
I've heard this argument before and it doesn't cut any ice with me. If you know how babies are made, then as a man you have a few choices -- have sex, don't have sex, condom, vasectomy.

There is a pill for men...

You put it in your shoe
















wait for it.....



















it makes you limp.

Dusty
01-24-2011, 08:25
Doesn't that very same 'ideal' remain today...and has the 'reality' of the issue ever been any different? I think History says otherwise, and the answer remains Y to the first and N to the second.

When I was coming of age, the ideal was the same as Dusty mentioned...but...the reality was also the same as I see it today among teens - to ignore that tired old morality being preached by our elders and try our damndest to experience the powerfully mysterious and libidinous lure of sex at the earliest age possible - which, not unlike today, worked for some, didn't work so well for most others.

From the point-of-view of an educator, I've found it isn't all that much different now than it was then...except...we discuss it more openly now for good cause because an STD today can literally mean a potential death sentence.

Richard :munchin

Might have been the reason the morality was established in the first place.

plato
01-24-2011, 20:22
I've heard this argument before and it doesn't cut any ice with me. If you know how babies are made, then as a man you have a few choices -- have sex, don't have sex, condom, vasectomy.



Exactly!

And I understand all the arguments.
When a woman chooses to end a pregnancy, it's her right.
If the child's father did that, he can do life or be fried.
I understand the "It's my body" argument.
And how helpless I would be to protect my child.

Just don't like how it stacks up.

Todd 1
01-25-2011, 01:10
Well, Plato, the thing is, women weren't exactly given a vote in the whole reproduction issue. Cause trust me if we were, men could get pregnant too.

http://www.*******.com/watch?v=h6rjmxoakRE ;):D


I've heard this argument before and it doesn't cut any ice with me. If you know how babies are made, then as a man you have a few choices -- have sex, don't have sex, condom, vasectomy.

Women have a few choices also--have sex, don’t have sex, birth control, tubal ligation.


Once the bun is in the oven your choices are pretty much over.

Make sure the bun doesn’t get in the oven.