View Full Version : U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, staff, shot at event in Tuscon, Ariz.
http://www.azbiz.com/articles/2011/01/08/news/breaking_news/doc4d28acf10ef74271075766.txt
Hopefully she makes it. Good to know they got the gunman.
Sounds like a planned hit. Most news agencies are reporting that the gunmen shot her in the head at close range.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE7071IA20110108
Reports are she died.
Sketchy reports on the shooter - early 30s late 20s - clean cut in dark cloths.
They got him - should have a quick trial - limited appeals - and then be offed quickly.
Ret10Echo
01-08-2011, 13:24
Still pretty sketchy on the details from Reuters. Curious if there is more detail available at the local media outlets. Reports I am reading state that about a dozen others were also shot....
...and so the 112th begins.
Prayers out
Guntry Kong
01-08-2011, 13:34
As of 1431 E.T. the news is reporting 7 dead including the Congresswoman and at least 12 wounded. This is very sad prayers and condolences to the families of all killed and wounded.
http://www.kvoa.com/news/6-dead-12-injured-from-shooting-giffords-condition-unknown/
6 Dead and 12 injured (wounded?).
Lot of shooting for an individual pissed about some issue. I think the story will run a lot deeper than it looks at first - or the dude is one certified nut case.
Comments sections on the sites have become the usual two sides slinging insults at each other.
Rep. Steve King (R-IA) - "It just hits me like a shot, (note to self: not a good use of words in this situation), ...to know that something like this could happen here in this country...".
Steve- where have you been, under a rock? Glad to know the good people of Iowa has someone as bright as you to guide them.
Prayers out to the Giffords family.
Now the news is saying she's not dead, she's in very critical condition.
Ret10Echo
01-08-2011, 13:54
Now the news is saying she's not dead, she's in very critical condition.
Local TV (KOLD-13) reports the congresswomen is in surgery (14:46). No reports on others being treated.
Pulled up the live stream...
Now the news is saying she's not dead, she's in very critical condition.
Yes, Fox News also reporting she's alive but critical. Prayers out...
Fox News just broke that Federal Judge John Roll was killed in the shooting
Anyone else notice the FNC's Washington DC reporter saying "it must be a fully automatic gun that did this..." "They're illegal in AZ as they are everywhere..."
Dumb F@#$ing reporters..
Oldrotorhead
01-08-2011, 15:13
Anyone else notice the FNC's Washington DC reporter saying "it must be a fully automatic gun that did this..." "They're illegal in AZ as they are everywhere..."
Dumb F@#$ing reporters..
FOX always goes way down hill every time Sheppard Smith talks off script. They are also litter better than CNN while trying to "scoop" the completion.
Prayers for all but the shooter.
AP sources: Ariz. gunman ID'ed as Jared Laughner
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/08/AR2011010802631.html
The hunt through electronic land to find his trail begins.
Stratfor report:
The suspect allegedly responsible for shooting U.S. Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords has been identified as 22-year-old Arizona native Jared Loughner, AP and NBC reported Jan. 8. A second man thought to be connected to the shooting has been arrested at Thornydale and Magee roads in Tucson, while a third man is being sought by the authorities.
------
Some news feeds are reporting a Fared Laughner as a shooter instead, and some are reporting that the shooter is a vet from afghanistan.
bandycpa
01-08-2011, 15:42
He had a YouTube channel. Scary, disconcerted stuff from him. No idea what the hell he was talking about in *any* of them.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/a/u/0/7uRjwPWaxiY
I found this on pipl.com as part of a search.
Oldrotorhead
01-08-2011, 16:09
Anyone want to bet his mother says" he is a good boy, it is not his fault, his friends were a bad influence" I bet I'm close.
His youtube stuff is very disturbing, I guess his attempt at logic and control of his life.
Prayers to the victims, bad dreams and pain to him.
He had a YouTube channel. Scary, disconcerted stuff from him. No idea what the hell he was talking about in *any* of them.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/a/u/0/7uRjwPWaxiY
In the featured video, he mentions going to MEPS. :confused: I wonder what his status is?
Pat
He had a YouTube channel. Scary, disconcerted stuff from him. No idea what the hell he was talking about in *any* of them.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/a/u/0/7uRjwPWaxiY
I had a younger cousin that talked like that, no one else knew what he was talking about either. We were all stupid and he was beyond us.
Drugs and poor parenting.
Prayers for Rep. Giffords and the other victims, as well as for the Republic.
LINK (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704030704576070010694650214.html#p rintMode)
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, an Arizona Democrat, along with a federal judge and 16 others were shot outside a Safeway in Tucson in a shooting spree that left six dead, local law enforcement officials said.
Local hospital officials said that Ms. Giffords, 40, had survived a gunshot wound to the head after emergency surgery and was likely to recover. The shooting occurred Saturday morning during a "Congress on Your Corner" event that the lawmaker was holding in her district.
Two law-enforcement officials confirmed that Tucson's chief federal judge, John Roll, was also shot at the scene and killed. Judge Roll had ruled on a number of heated immigration cases in the southern part of Arizona, which includes Ms. Giffords's district.
A spokesman at the University Medical Center in Tucson, Dr. Peter Rhee, said Ms. Giffords had completed surgery and she was being transferred to intensive care. "I am very optimistic about her recovery," he said, adding that the bullet had gone straight through her head.
Dr. Rhee said that 10 patients were being treated at the hospital, and that five of them were in critical condition. In addition, he said, a child who was brought to the hospital had died of gunshot wounds.
Police said they were holding the suspected gunman, who they described as a white male, born in 1988. A police report identified the man as Jared Lee Loughner.
The U.S. Army said in a statement that Mr. Loughner had tried to join the Army but was turned away. "The Army has confirmed that the suspect was never in the Army," the spokesman said. "He attempted to enlist in the Army but was rejected for service. In accordance with the Privacy Act, we will not discuss why he was rejected."
Ms. Giffords was first elected to Congress in 2006 after serving several years in the Arizona state House and Senate. She married the space shuttle astronaut Mark Kelly in 2007.
President Barack Obama released a statement calling the attack "a senseless and terrible act of violence has no place in a free society. I ask all Americans to join me and Michelle in keeping Representative Giffords, the victims of this tragedy, and their families in our prayers," he said.
Newly elected House Speaker John Boehner said he was "horrified by the senseless attack on Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and members of her staff." Mr. Boehner said that "an attack on one who serves is an attack on all who serve. Acts and threats of violence against public officials have no place in our society. Our prayers are with Congresswoman Giffords, her staff, all who were injured, and their families. This is a sad day for our country."
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D, Calif.) called the shooting a "terrible act of violence" and "a national tragedy."
"This terrible act of violence is a national tragedy, and today is a very sad day for our country," she said.
Rep. Giffords was recruited to run for Congress in 2006 by Rahm Emanuel, the former White House chief of staff who was at the time head of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. Mr. Emanuel noted that she was shot while "doing the Congress on your corner" kind of event that he pioneered in his home district in Chicago and that he encouraged new Democratic lawmakers to do regularly when back home.
The shooting was not the first time the congresswoman has had brushes with violence. Following the health care overhaul vote this year, her district office was vandalized.
"The rhetoric has gotten incredibly heated," she told MSNBC in March. "Not just the calls, the emails, the slurs. Things have really gotten spun up."
She also specifically called out a "targets" website created by former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin for the 2010 midterm elections that featured a crosshair over hers and other districts. Republicans campaigned heavily against Ms. Giffords, a moderate Democrat in a Republican-leaning district, last year.
"We can't' stand for this, we do really need to realize that the rhetoric and firing people up, and you know things for example we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, the thing is the way she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gunsight over our district," she told MSNBC.
Rep. Giffords earned a reputation as a strong fundraiser and campaigner who was deeply engaged in Arizona's bitter immigration debate.
A member of the fiscally conservative Blue Dog Coalition, she won a tough reelection battle last fall against a Republican, Jesse Kelly, who was championed by many tea-party groups. She won the race by fewer than 4,000 votes.
Tea Party Nation, the group started by Tennessee lawyer Judson Phillips, put out a statement to its supporters decrying the shooting. "Congressman Giffords was a liberal, but that does not matter now. No one should be the victim of violence because of their political beliefs."
The statement went on to say that "no matter what the shooter's motivations where, the left is going to blame this on the Tea Party Movement."
The 8th District shares a 100-mile-long border with Mexico.
Ms. Giffords's district is overall politically moderate, represented for years by an openly gay, moderate Republican, Jim Kolbe, then by Ms. Giffords. But the GOP in southeastern Arizona is deeply divided. A moderate Republican hand-picked by Mr. Kolbe to succeed him after he retired in 2006 was beaten badly by Randy Graf, a staunch conservative who ran a strong, anti-immigration platform. He was in turn beaten badly by Ms. Giffords.
The pattern repeated itself in 2010. While Arizona Democrats were swamped in November, Ms. Giffords survived in large part because Republican primary voters picked the most conservative candidate to challenge her.
The district includes part of Tucson, but also large stretches of ranch lands stretching to the Mexico border, where anti-illegal-immigration sentiment runs strong. During the runup to the November election, the other Tucson representative, liberal Democrat Raul Grijalva, had his office vandalized.
Ms. Giffords's family owns tire stores in the area.
Hang in there U.S. Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. Reports suggest you're responsive and going to survive. One tough lady......
God bless you and all the victims. Prayers all around for all the families and staff personnel.
May the shooter bun in hell you sorry SOB....
:mad:.......jd
She is alive..Fox News is saying...
This shit bag needs the best killing he can get..
My prayers for all
AL
Surf n Turf
01-08-2011, 21:44
My heartfelt condolences to the all the victims, and to their families.
I hope a full recovery awaits Congresswomen Giffords, and the other shooting victims.
SnT
Dozer523
01-08-2011, 21:48
He had a YouTube channel.
Wow. :eek: Especially the Introduction one. Shall we look for the "sleepwalker defense? I liked the sound track to that one though.
bandycpa
01-08-2011, 21:56
Wow. :eek: Especially the Introduction one. Shall we look for the "sleepwalker defense? I liked the sound track to that one though.
He was big on the "conscious dream" theory apparently, even saying that he was sleepwalking and didn't set an alarm clock. Makes one wonder if he was trying to set up the pieces for an insanity defense, or if he was just completely off his rocker.
Oldrotorhead
01-08-2011, 22:44
Wow. :eek: Especially the Introduction one. Shall we look for the "sleepwalker defense? I liked the sound track to that one though.
Music was good, the rest of it was from the dark side of the moon. If the feds get him anything is possible. The State will be less forgiving. No matter how wacked you are, if you can even think murder is wrong no wack job defense. I hope.
If you notice on the bio portion of the shooters youtube page, everything is written in past tense. He had planned and thought of people watching his youtube channel after this. Seems like he planned to go down with the bullet.
I wonder what part of his plan did not go the way he wanted it to. It is some pretty creepy stuff. His youtube videos are very strange. Reminded me of Ted Kaczynski stuff. As in someone who is obviously very smart, but turned totally psychotic in their own genius.
SparseCandy
01-08-2011, 23:20
No matter how wacked you are, if you can even think murder is wrong no wack job defense. I hope.
Insanity defenses only succeed around 20% of the time, and Arizona isn't the best state to try an insanity defense in to begin with because it disallows the defense on the basis of antisocial disorders, character defects, or impulse control disorders. So at least the chances of him using a bogus insanity defense are pretty slim. (From my forensic psych class, but verified here prior to posting:
http://www.psychiatry.us/articledetail.php?ID=44&CID= )
Although watching those videos gives credibility to claims of mental instability. Not completely word salad, but definitely mangled. Hopefully he pleads guilty and saves everyone some time and money. Even if they give him NGRI I can't imagine they will ever let him out of the psych hospital, not after shooting so many.
aegisnavy
01-09-2011, 00:15
The gunman is nucking futs, and that's my professional diagnosis.
What a tragedy. Prayers and thoughts to the member of Congress, the other victims, and their families. What a pointless waste.
I just can't belive this guy lived, I was born and raised in Sierra Vista and I remember even as a kid darn near everyone had a gun. This SOB should have been shot in the face at the first sign of his hostile intent.
Prays out for all involved.
The Washington Post is already spinning this incident by suggesting it was political violence. A scary precedence since the guy was clearly a freakin' psycho. Here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/08/AR2011010802422_3.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2011010802810) is the Post article.
I believe the best defense again this is armed populace but I'm sure "they" will champion gun control, which works so well in DC or Baltimore. :rolleyes: Does this sort of thing occur in Israel?
The Washington Post is already spinning this incident by suggesting it was political violence. A scary precedence since the guy was clearly a freakin' psycho. Here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/08/AR2011010802422_3.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2011010802810) is the Post article.
I believe the best defense again this is armed populace but I'm sure "they" will champion gun control, which works so well in DC or Baltimore. :rolleyes: Does this sort of thing occur in Israel?
Blackfive is asking for an apology from Congesswoman Lopez for her remarks on Fox News.
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2011/01/veterans-demand-an-apology-congresswoman.html
The Daily Kos scrubbed this yesterday:
http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1/6/933828/-My-CongressWOMAN-voted-against-Nancy-Pelosi!-And-is-now-DEAD-to-me&d=206364088592&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=b5b22df8,40021394
And at this moment Fox News is pending a lot of time on 9mm Semi Auto Pistol with Hi-Cap Mag and the Gun Store the purchase was made.
ABC has repeatedly voiced the "white male Tea Party" and "possibly politically motivated" theme this morning. This ain't good.
(paraphrasing) Is this Columbine, Virginia Tech, etc or is it Oklahoma City? We just don't know yet.
Really? :confused:
A 9 year old girl is dead, can we hang up the political torches for one day and just be outraged at the shooter?
A 9 year old girl is dead, can we hang up the political torches for one day and just be outraged at the shooter?
Oh, the liberals won't be outraged, they'll be overjoyed.
They've been waiting on a white male dastard to do a mass killing ever since Muhammad and Malvo.
What disappointment it is to see this dribble. I have a question for the team: Who is the treat to America?
Duty Honor Country
http://www.legitgov.org/SarahPac-Called-Ariz-Congresswoman-be-Targeted
:D
A 9 year old girl is dead, can we hang up the political torches for one day and just be outraged at the shooter?
That was part of my point, these poor souls bodies had barely touched the ground and the fecal matter was already being stirred, and the outrage misdirected.....which is an outrage unto itself.
First things first
...my heart felt condolences to the families of those people who have had their lives tragically altered by the uninvited intrusion of a violent criminal who goes by the name of JARED LAUGHNER. My prayers are with everyone involved.
Also, my sympathy goes out to laughners parents. It must be emotionally draining and incredibly hard to bear that your child is capable of such inhumanity.
It is my opinion that a quick humane death is not always an appropriate punishment for folks like this. Words do not illustrate feelings towards the INDIVIDUALS that perpetrate acts such as this one.
...like the old westerns used to say: "killin's too good for you boy"
I am equally as fed up with those in the media that somehow forget who committed this crime. The shots were fired by a 22 year old adult, not by "vitriolic" talk show hosts or those submersed in radical tea party politics.
Where is the blind media outrage at this infectious human waste that committed this act? Why are pundits busy wondering how they can connect this to Columbine, Virginia Tech, Ft Hood and Oklahoma City in the name of hate-politics or tea party movements or even conservative talk show hosts?
Tragic is not a strong enough word. It is shameful how quick the talking heads trip over their own shoelaces trying to push ideological political agendas using tragedy as fodder.
The talkingheads on TV today reminds me of Rahm Emanuals comment "You never let a serious crisis go to waste."....
We wouldn't want to cloud the story with facts now would we.
scum... plain and simple
just my opinion, I could be wrong
What disappointment it is to see this dribble. I have a question for the team: Who is the treat to America?
Duty Honor Country
While some readers will think this thread has become a political shit stick stirring venue, may I remind everyone, that this webiste is for just that purpose. So, if you have an opinion, please post your thoughts after careful reflection. Remember also that the reading audience if fairly capable of reasonably reply.
FYI: An incident occured, a bad day for some, a good day for others. Trust me when I say, many in that crowd are at Mass today, because they feel lucky it did not happen to them.
No amount of legislation, talking heads forn the MSM, or political groups will prevent this from happening again. Incidents of this nature have been typically left to other regions of the world and for other reasons.
Welcome to our world, this will happen again and in a neighborhood near you.
So, (como), in answering you "team room" question, I will say this. I have a hot cup of coffee in my right hand, my shoulder leaning again the door, while my left hand is firming in my front pocket, I'm smiling at each of my team members and we are carefully contemplating our actions on the objective.
I know very clearly who the enemies of America are, do you?
Oh, the liberals won't be outraged, they'll be overjoyed.
They've been waiting on a white male dastard to do a mass killing ever since Muhammad and Malvo.
I doubt any of them would be overjoyed at the deaths and injuries.
Media wise, this is a perfect storm for moderate to left leaning media outlets. They've been trying to assert for years now that Palin's crowd is full of psychologically unstable people. They've been saying the same about the tea party.
This is the first major incident of deadly violence perpetrated by someone that they can claim is loyal to both camps. "See, how could Palin put cross hairs over her district knowing that one of her crazy followers is going to interpret that as a fatwa."
Virginia Tech/Columbine had a similar mass casualty MO. Americans that expect the news folks to put 2+2 together for them will believe their spin. The same is true for the people that "only trust fox news."
It's not in the media's nature to wait for all the facts. It is in their nature to point the finger as fast as possible to pump ratings. As long as Rush sells he'll have a pulpit. Same with Maddow, O'Reilly, Olbermann, and the rest.
It used to bother me, but now I'm comfortably numb. :munchin
Some may think that the ship has begun to sink. I say nay, I will be there with my pail. And so will you.
It used to bother me, but now I'm comfortably numb. :munchin
Agreed.
I assume you watch Fox news and listen to Limbaugh? Because I don't talk shit about Huffpo without clicking on it often enough to see what kind of maniacal BS they're currently spreading around.
The suspect isn't cooperating but yet "they" already know why he shot the congresswoman. How? What insight do they have? This incident is less than 24 hours old but yet the "cause" is already known!
What ever happened to personal accountability?
I know very clearly who the enemies of America are, do you?
I suppose the opposition should be more willing to just sit down, listen to different viewpoints, and empathize with others...just like Earth Liberation Front (ELF), PETA activists, and the anti-WTO "peaceniks". (My point being that there are fricken whackos all over the US and the Secret Service deals with these nut jobs all the time. I do not believe that the Congresswoman was targeted because she was a Democrat but rather because the shooter was from AZ and he disagreed with her viewpoints, which were publicized. IMO, this was simply about opportunity and availability.)
(from Fox (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/09/lawmaker-sees-chilling-effect-shootings/))
WASHINGTON – The second-ranking House Democrat says the attack on an Arizona congresswoman can't help but have a chilling effect on lawmakers.
Rep. Steny Hoyer of Maryland says his colleagues in Congress have been very concerned about confrontations and growing anger they've seen in the political environment in the past few years.
Hoyer tells CBS' "Face the Nation" that many information outlets today are inciting people to anger. He warns those in politics, the media and the public square that their words can have consequences, and he urges people with differences to be civil.
In Tucson, Ariz., on Saturday, Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was critically wounded while meeting with constituents.
Team Sergeant
01-09-2011, 12:09
It's sad when a psychotic punk kills a bunch of innocent people.
What's worse is everyone that uses that very sad situation and twists it to their advantage.
That punk is sick, the indivuduals that "use" the situation are sicker.
TS
It's sad when a psychotic punk kills a bunch of innocent people.
What's worse is everyone that uses that very sad situation and twists it to their advantage.
That punk is sick, the indivuduals that "use" the situation are sicker.
TS
Very well said TS Sir!
Thoughts and prayers out to those innocent victims...9 years old is too young to die.:(
May the punk die a slow, painful death...
Holly:munchin
Please don't get me wrong: the shooting in Arizona is tragic and has clearly devastated the families of all those effected by this senseless act.
I submit the following and question is a federal judge a principle figure of the US Government?
USC (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode04/usc_sec_04_00000007----000-.html) TITLE 4 > CHAPTER 1 > § 7
§ 7. Position and manner of display
(m) The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States or the death of a member of the Armed Forces from any State, territory, or possession who dies while serving on active duty, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff, and the same authority is provided to the Mayor of the District of Columbia with respect to present or former officials of the District of Columbia and members of the Armed Forces from the District of Columbia. When the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, or the Mayor of the District of Columbia, issues a proclamation under the preceding sentence that the National flag be flown at half-staff in that State, territory, or possession or in the District of Columbia because of the death of a member of the Armed Forces, the National flag flown at any Federal installation or facility in the area covered by that proclamation shall be flown at half-staff consistent with that proclamation. The flag shall be flown at half-staff 30 days from the death of the President or a former President; 10 days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. The flag shall be flown at half-staff on Peace Officers Memorial Day, unless that day is also Armed Forces Day.
..........Media wise, this is a perfect storm for moderate to left leaning media outlets. They've been trying to assert for years now that Palin's crowd is full of psychologically unstable people. They've been saying the same about the tea party.
This is the first major incident of deadly violence perpetrated by someone that they can claim is loyal to both camps. "See, how could Palin put cross hairs over her district knowing that one of her crazy followers is going to interpret that as a fatwa."............
And what makes you think he was a Tea Party Palin supporter?
Not too many of them think burning an American Flag is a cool thing nor do they think Marx and Hitler were great authors.
But hey, he is white sooooooooooo................
http://spectator.org/blog/2011/01/09/arizona-shootings-it-was-a-col
http://azdailysun.com/news/local/state-and-regional/article_663d67a8-0e82-569b-a2fe-46306174e1fe.html
And what makes you think he was a Tea Party Palin supporter?
Not too many of them think burning an American Flag is a cool thing nor do they think Marx and Hitler were great authors.
This is the first major incident of deadly violence perpetrated by someone that they can claim is loyal to both camps. "See, how could Palin put cross hairs over her district knowing that one of her crazy followers is going to interpret that as a fatwa."n
I have no idea what he is or isn't. I'm saying that's the main spin a lot of news organizations and message boards are trying to put on him. I'll wait until the basic facts come out before I make up my mind.
Agreed.
I assume you watch Fox news and listen to Limbaugh? Because I don't talk shit about Huffpo without clicking on it often enough to see what kind of maniacal BS they're currently spreading around.
I do watch fox, and msnbc, and cnn, and the rest. I try to get as much information as I can. Like you said, lots of it from both sides is pure cow patty.
I have no idea what he is or isn't. I'm saying that's the main spin a lot of news organizations and message boards are trying to put on him. I'll wait until the basic facts come out before I make up my mind.
I do watch fox, and msnbc, and cnn, and the rest. I try to get as much information as I can. Like you said, lots of it from both sides is pure cow patty.
So what you are saying that truth does not matter to the LameStreamMedia and the sheeple lap up whatever they dish up?
It is quite clear the LSM - once it finds out a shooter is one of it's own and the views wise up - quickly drop the story for whats hot in Holleywood.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/09/arizona-suspected-gunman-no-stranger-to-trouble/
So what you are saying that truth does not matter to the LameStreamMedia and the sheeple lap up whatever they dish up?
It is quite clear the LSM - once it finds out a shooter is one of it's own and the views wise up - quickly drop the story for whats hot in Holleywood.
Yes. If they find that he isn't what they thought he was, he'll drop off the radar.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/09/arizona-suspected-gunman-no-stranger-to-trouble/
Believe somone a few posts' back mentioned that the MSM would report first, and then check the facts...So true!!!:confused:
They should seriously check themselves...for ticks!
Holly:munchin
MTN Medic
01-09-2011, 17:41
CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/01/09/navarrette.arizona/index.html?hpt=C2)
But those on the liberal left who -- in the first few hours after the shooting rushed to blame the tragedy on right-wing talk radio, the Tea Party movement and even potential 2012 GOP presidential hopeful Sarah Palin -- have at least two things standing in their way.
First, Giffords is a Democrat but she is a conservative one. In fact, on issues such as immigration, she was often criticized for not being liberal enough for some Democratic constituents. After U.S. District Court Judge Susan Bolton struck down much of SB 1070, Arizona's immigration law, Giffords issued a statement insisting that the law had been passed "because we were fed up with years of federal inaction and neglect."
Republican Gov. Jan Brewer also likes to blame Washington for a situation that Arizonans visited upon themselves by hiring illegal immigrants. It's not true.
There are now more than 4,000 Border Patrol agents stationed on the Arizona-Mexico border. And in the past two years, the Obama administration has deported nearly 800,000 illegal immigrants, a new record.
Secondly, just as Giffords isn't exactly a left winger, it's also far from clear that Loughner is a right winger.
Caitie Parker, who said she knows Loughner from high school and college, tweeted: "He was a political radical & met Giffords once before in '07, asked her a question & he told me she was 'stupid & unintelligent.' She later added in another tweet, "As I knew him, he was left wing, quite liberal and oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy."
CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/01/09/navarrette.arizona/index.html?hpt=C2)
Giffords is a Democrat but she is a conservative one. In fact, on issues such as immigration, she was often criticized for not being liberal enough for some Democratic constituents. After U.S. District Court Judge Susan Bolton struck down much of SB 1070, Arizona's immigration law, Giffords issued a statement insisting that the law had been passed "because we were fed up with years of federal inaction and neglect."IMO, it is Giffords's pragamtic, moderate, result oriented stance on a wide range of issues that makes the plot to assassinate her especially disturbing.
Team Sergeant
01-09-2011, 18:02
You people are killing me..... how does anyone know what the PUNK had in mind other than he wanted to kill a lot of innocent people and went to the grocery store to do so?
Please speculate away..... :rolleyes:
Source is here (http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-jared-lee-loughner-profile,0,1944783,print.story).Cops: Suspected Ariz. Gunman Wrote "I Planned Ahead"
Investigators exploring link to anti-government group.
KTLA News
2:03 PM PST, January 9, 2011
TUSCON, Ariz ( KTLA) -- Federal prosecutors filed charges against alleged Tucson gunman Jared Lee Loughner on Sunday.
Loughner, 22, faces one count of attempted assassination of member of Congress, two counts of killing an employee of the federal government and two counts of attempting to killing a federal employee.
Investigators say they served a search warrant at Loughner's home, and found evidence suggesting he planned ahead.
The evidence included an envelope from a safe with messages such as "I planned ahead," "My assassination" and the name "Giffords" next to what appears to be the man's signature.
He allegedly purchased the Glock pistol used in the attack in November at Sportsman's Warehouse in Tucson.
Court documents also show that Loughner had contact with Giffords in the past.
Other evidence included a letter addressed to him from Giffords' congressional stationery in which she thanked him for attending a "Congress on your Corner" event at a mall in Tucson in 2007.
Investigators are now looking at a possible connection between the alleged gunman and an online group known for its anti-government rhetoric, an official familiar with the investigation told the Associated Press.
The group, called American Renaissance, is connected to the white supremacist New Century Foundation, according to an analysis by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Loughner's online postings reveal strong anti-government beliefs.
He has been described as a politically radical loner, who had been rejected by the military, and often disrupted his college classes.
Neighbors said Loughner wasn't hostile, but often kept to himself.
"He was a guy in high school who definitely had his opinions on stuff and didn't seem to care what people thought of him," Grant Wiens, 22, told The Associated Press. Wiens went to high school and had a class at Pima Community College with Loughner.
Wiens also told the Associated Pres that Loughner used to speak critically about religion, and liked to smoke pot.
Lynda Sorenson, who took a math class with Loughner last summer at Pima Community College's Northwest campus, told the Arizona Daily Star he was "obviously very disturbed."
"He disrupted class frequently with nonsensical outbursts," she said.
Federal officials are now examining a MySpace page that belonged to Loughner, as well as a YouTube videos published under the account "Classitup10," which has been linked to him.
Authorities say the MySpace page contained mysterious "Goodbye friends" messages that were posted hours before the shooting. On the page, which was removed right after Loughner was identified by police, he also reportedly asked his friends to "Please don't be mad at me."
Loughner also railed about the lack of literacy where he lived.
"The majority of people, who reside in District-8 are illiterate hilarious," he wrote on his MySpace page. "I don't control your English grammar structure, but you control your English grammar structure," he said.
In a Dec. 15 YouTube video, Loughner describes himself as a U.S. military recruit.
The Army has released a statement indicating Loughner was not accepted.
Also on his YouTube page were several ranting videos. In one, Loughner wrote: "If you call me a terrorist then the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem. You call me a terrorist. Thus, the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem."
There are unconfirmed reports that Loughner once met with Rep. Giffords in 2007. A former high school friend said that he had often talked about meeting and talking with the congresswoman.
Arizona court records show Loughner has twice been charged with previous offenses. The first, in October 2007, related to the possession of drug paraphernalia. It was unclear what the second, a year later, related to. Both charges were dismissed after Loughner completed a "diversion program".
People who knew him described him as philosophical, a person who read a lot of books. On his YouTube page, Loughner listed among his favorite books "The Communist Manifesto," "Siddhartha," "The Old Man And The Sea," "Gulliver's Travels," "Mein Kampf," "The Republic" and "Meno."
One former high school friend Tweeted about knowing the accused gunman:
"He was a pot head and into rock, like Hendrix, The Doors, Anti-Flag," she wrote. "I haven't seen him in person since 2007 in a sign language class. As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal and oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy. He had a lot of friends until he got alcohol poisoning in 2006 and dropped out of school. Mainly a loner, very philosophical."
Loughner was taken into custody at the scene after being subdued by several bystanders.
Police now say Loughner acted alone.
Authorities were initially looking for another man they thought was a possible accomplice, but they've since cleared the man. Police had been searching for him because he was captured on the store's security cameras near the gunman.
They now say he was a cab driver who drove Loughner to the grocery store.
The man apparently went inside the grocery store to look for Loughner, because he had not paid his fare.
So the House is going to take things easy because of Tuscon:
House action postponed next week (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/08/house-action-postponed-next-week/)
mug.cnnpolitics By: CNN Political Unit
(CNN) - Following the shootings Saturday in Tucson, Arizona, all legislation on the House schedule for the coming week is postponed, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor announced in a statement.
Cantor said the decision was made by leaders of both political parties in the House so that "we can take whatever actions may be necessary in light of today's tragedy." The schedule change means the House will not vote next week on the repeal of health care reform.
"I couldn't agree more with (House) Speaker (John) Boehner, who earlier said that, 'an attack on one who serves is an attack on all who serve,'" Cantor said in Saturday's statement. "Along with our nation, this institution has suffered a horrible tragedy. We are saddened, mourn those who lost their lives, and stand together in hopeful prayer for the recovery of the victims and their families."
– CNN Senior Congressional Correspondent Dana Bash contributed to this report
Or are they?
Fox (http://nation.foxnews.com/gabrielle-giffords/2011/01/09/rep-mccarthy-readies-gun-control-bill)
One of the fiercest gun-control advocates in Congress, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.), pounced on the shooting massacre in Tucson Sunday, promising to introduce legislation as soon as Monday.
McCarthy ran for Congress after her husband was gunned down and her son seriously injured in a Long Island shooting in 1993.
"My staff is working on looking at the different legislation fixes that we might be able to do and we might be able to introduce as early as tomorrow," McCarthy told POLITICO in a Sunday afternoon phone interview.
Changing topics a bit:
This is on the Washington Post (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2011/01/a-trail-of-heated-political-rh.html?hpid=topnews) website.
A trail of heated political rhetoric
By Scott Wilson and Emi Kolawole
Overheated political rhetoric is as much a staple of American democracy as Lincoln Day Dinners and rubber-chicken fund-raisers. But the 2010 election cycle, which unfolded as the nation faced a historic economic recession, reverberated with some particularly incendiary language, symbols and advertising. They are now being re-examined following the deadly mass shooting in Tucson that targeted Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) Here is a collection of some of the more inflammatory rhetoric over the last two years:
On June 23, 2008, then-candidate Obama warned Democratic donors that the campaign could get ugly. During a Philadelphia fundraiser, Obama riffed off of the mob drama "The Untouchables," saying, "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun ... Because from what I understand, folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans."
Christina-Taylor Green
9/11/01-1/8/11
Christina-Taylor Green's short life was pinned between two national tragedies: She was born Sept. 11, 2001, and she died as a gunman apparently targeting Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) shot 20 people in Tucson.
Christina, a budding elementary school politician, was the youngest among the six killed in Saturday's shooting.
The 9-year-old, who had big brown eyes and long brown hair, recently had been elected to her student council. She went with a family friend to see Giffords speak, a way to learn more about serving in government.
"Christina Green was a wonderful child," said her teacher, Kathie DeKnikker. "She had not only the energy and enthusiasm of a typical third-grader but also maturity and insight that most children don't attain until much later."
Christina's love of American civics began early.
"She was born back east and Sept. 11 affected everyone there, and Christina-Taylor was always very aware of it," her mother, Roxanna Green, told the Arizona Daily Star. "She was very patriotic, and wearing red, white and blue was really special to her."
DeKnikker said she was a leader in her classroom at Mesa Verde Elementary school, helping other students and contributing to discussions.
"The thing I will remember most about Christina was her well-developed sense of humor. Oh, how she could make us laugh with her witty comments," she said. "We will all miss her terribly."
School officials said there will be counselors early Monday morning for students and staff.
The young girl, who was the only girl to play for the Pirates, the Canyon del Oro Little League baseball team, continued the family's baseball tradition. Her father, John Green, is a scout for the Los Angeles Dodgers and her grandfather, Dallas Green, is a former major league pitcher and manager. The elder Green managed the Philadephia Phillies from 1979 to 1981, winning a World Series title in 1980. He went on to manage the Yankees and the Mets.
Christina had one sibling an 11-year-old brother, also named Dallas, and the two loved to go swimming together, her parents said.
"She kept up with everyone. She was a strong girl, a very good athlete and a strong swimmer," her mother said in interviews with the local paper. "She was interested in everything. She got a guitar for Christmas, so her next thing was learning to play guitar."
Christina had just received her first Holy Communion at St. Odilia's Catholic Church in Tucson, Catholic Diocese of Tucson officials told the Arizona Daily Star.
"She was real special and real sweet, "her uncle Greg Segalini told the Arizona Republic.
The girl was already aware of the "inequalities" of the world, Roxanna Green said. Christina often repeated the same phrase to her mother: "We are so blessed. We have the best life."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/09/AR2011010902186.html
Give her eternal rest, O Lord, and may Your light shine upon her forever.
You people are killing me..... how does anyone know what the PUNK had in mind other than he wanted to kill a lot of innocent people and went to the grocery store to do so?
Please speculate away..... :rolleyes:Nowadays, the MSM spins it into a conspiracy for ratings and "we the people" drink the kool-aid every time.
Stay safe.
silentreader
01-09-2011, 23:23
Cable news networks are worthless. CNN is good for the pictures when there's a Big Event going on (election, war, natural disaster) but besides that, cable news will melt your brain.
The NYtimes, on the other hand, has covered this very well.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/us/politics/10giffords.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/us/10shooter.html?hp
Cable news networks are worthless. CNN is good for the pictures when there's a Big Event going on (election, war, natural disaster) but besides that, cable news will melt your brain.
The NYtimes, on the other hand, has covered this very well.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/us/politics/10giffords.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/us/10shooter.html?hp
You mean they set up the poor "troubled youth's" mental competency profile very well, right?
This thing will be blamed on his aggressive father, the failure of the university to recognize his degenerating mental health and giving him help instead of the boot, and most importantly the capacity of a Glock magazine.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47338.html
One of the fiercest gun-control advocates in Congress, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.), pounced on the shooting massacre in Tucson Sunday, promising to introduce legislation as soon as Monday targeting the high-capacity ammunition the gunman used.McCarthy ran for Congress after her husband was gunned down and her son seriously injured in a shooting in 1993 on a Long Island commuter train.
“My staff is working on looking at the different legislation fixes that we might be able to do and we might be able to introduce as early as tomorrow,” McCarthy told POLITICO in a Sunday afternoon phone interview.
Gun control activists cried it was time to reform weapons laws in the United States, almost immediately after a gunman killed six and injured 14 more, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, in Arizona on Saturday.
Many said that people with a history of mental instability, like the alleged shooter, Jared Lee Loughner, should not be able to buy a gun — and no one should be able to buy stockpiles of ammunition used by the 22-year-old assailant.
McCarthy said she plans to confer with House Speaker John Boehner and Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi to see “if we can work something through” in the coming week.
McCarthy’s spokesman confirmed the legislation will target the high-capacity ammunition clips the Arizona gunman allegedly used in the shooting, but neither he or the congresswoman offered any further details.
“Again, we need to look at how this is going to work, to protect people, certainly citizens, and we have to look at what I can pass,” McCarthy said. “I don’t want to give the NRA – excuse the pun – the ammunition to come at me either.”
Pennsylvania Rep. Robert Brady, a Democrat from Philadelphia, told CNN that he also plans to take legislative action. He will introduce a bill that would make it a crime for anyone to use language or symbols that could be seen as threatening or violent against a federal official, including a member of Congress.
Snip
Cable news networks are worthless. CNN is good for the pictures when there's a Big Event going on (election, war, natural disaster) but besides that, cable news will melt your brain.
The NYtimes, on the other hand, has covered this very well.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/us/politics/10giffords.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/us/10shooter.html?hp
Really?
Here's is a snippet from a NYT editorial that sounds like the rest of the trash I have been reading and hearing.
It is facile and mistaken to attribute this particular madman’s act directly to Republicans or Tea Party members. But it is legitimate to hold Republicans and particularly their most virulent supporters in the media responsible for the gale of anger that has produced the vast majority of these threats, setting the nation on edge. Many on the right have exploited the arguments of division, reaping political power by demonizing immigrants, or welfare recipients, or bureaucrats. They seem to have persuaded many Americans that the government is not just misguided, but the enemy of the people.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/opinion/10mon1.html?ref=opinion
:D
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/01/10/2011-01-10_chilling_shrine_in_madmans_yard.html
:D
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/01/10/2011-01-10_chilling_shrine_in_madmans_yard.html
Didn't you know? That's standard Tea Party stuff. I have one myself in the back yard. Ours is stained with blood from animal sacrifices.
alright4u
01-10-2011, 06:33
Nowadays, the MSM spins it into a conspiracy for ratings and "we the people" drink the kool-aid every time.
Stay safe.
I had to turn FOX off the day this was reported. Geraldo pushed his Sarah Palin hit job. I about puked. Why can't they get off ass and find the damn facts and then report? Mentally ill folks live everywhere.
Team Sergeant
01-10-2011, 07:10
Source is here (http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-jared-lee-loughner-profile,0,1944783,print.story).
Yup, if some media source posted/printed it, it must be true.
That part of your critical thinking process, read/cite one small media source for all your facts?
You don't need to respond. Enjoy the ride on the moron driven media bandwagon.
Guy,
Remember those two "sniper" idiots killing innocent people in Wash D.C.? Can you imagine if they had killed the woman working for the CIA first? Our moron driven media might have started WWIII.:rolleyes:
TS
Oldrotorhead
01-10-2011, 07:18
Didn't you know? That's standard Tea Party stuff. I have one myself in the back yard. Ours is stained with blood from animal sacrifices.
Just wait until your final initiation then it is human blood. You will also be allowed to buy 200 round Glock magazines.
:eek:
Yup, if some media source posted/printed it, it must be true.
That part of your critical thinking process, read/cite one small media source for all your facts?
You don't need to respond. Enjoy the ride on the moron driven media bandwagon.
Guy,
Remember those two "sniper" idiots killing innocent people in Wash D.C.? Can you imagine if they had killed the woman working for the CIA first? Our moron driven media might have started WWIII.:rolleyes:
TS
As long as we don't jump to conclusions, TS:
http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/journalists-urged-caution-after-ft-hood-now-race-blame-palin-afte
On November 5, 2009, Maj. Nidal Hasan opened fire at a troop readiness center in Ft. Hood, Texas, killing 13 people. Within hours of the killings, the world knew that Hasan reportedly shouted "Allahu Akbar!" before he began shooting, visited websites associated with Islamist violence, wrote Internet postings justifying Muslim suicide bombings, considered U.S. forces his enemy, opposed American involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan as wars on Islam, and told a neighbor shortly before the shootings that he was going "to do good work for God." There was ample evidence, in other words, that the Ft. Hood attack was an act of Islamist violence.
Nevertheless, public officials, journalists, and commentators were quick to caution that the public should not "jump to conclusions" about Hasan's motive. CNN, in particular, became a forum for repeated warnings that the subject should be discussed with particular care.
"The important thing is for everyone not to jump to conclusions," said retired Gen. Wesley Clark on CNN the night of the shootings.
"We cannot jump to conclusions," said CNN's Jane Velez-Mitchell that same evening. "We have to make sure that we do not jump to any conclusions whatsoever."
"I'm on Pentagon chat room," said former CIA operative Robert Baer on CNN, also the night of the shooting. "Right now, there's messages going back and forth, saying do not jump to the conclusion this had anything to do with Islam."
The next day, President Obama underscored the rapidly-forming conventional wisdom when he told the country, "I would caution against jumping to conclusions until we have all the facts." In the days that followed, CNN jouralists and guests repeatedly echoed the president's remarks.
"We can't jump to conclusions," Army Gen. George Casey said on CNN November 8. The next day, political analyst Mark Halperin urged a "transparent" investigation into the shootings "so the American people don't jump to conclusions." And when Republican Rep. Pete Hoekstra, then the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, suggested that the Ft. Hood attack was terrorism, CNN's John Roberts was quick to intervene. "Now, President Obama has asked people to be very cautious here and to not jump to conclusions," Roberts said to Hoekstra. "By saying that you believe this is an act of terror, are you jumping to a conclusion?"
Fast forward a little more than a year, to January 8, 2011. In Tucson, Arizona, a 22 year-old man named Jared Lee Loughner opened fire at a political event, gravely wounding Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, killing a federal judge and five others, and wounding 18. In the hours after the attack, little was known about Loughner beyond some bizarre and largely incomprehensible YouTube postings that, if anything, suggested he was mentally ill. Yet the network that had shown such caution in discussing the Ft. Hood shootings openly discussed the possibility that Loughner was inspired to violence by…Sarah Palin. Although there is no evidence that Loughner was in any way influenced by Palin, CNN was filled with speculation about the former Alaska governor.
After reporting that Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik had condemned what Dupnik called "the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government," CNN's Wolf Blitzer turned to congressional reporter Jessica Yellin for analysis. The sheriff "singled out some of the political rhetoric, as you point out, in creating the environment that allowed this kind of instance to happen," Yellin told Blitzer. "Even though, as you point out, this suspect is not cooperating with investigators, so we don't know the motive. President Obama also delivered that message, saying it's partly the political rhetoric that led to this. So that's why we want to bring up one of the themes that's burning up the social media right now. On Twitter and Facebook, there is a lot of talk, in particular, about Sarah Palin. As you might recall, back in March of last year, when the health care vote was coming to the floor of the House and this was all heating up, Palin tweeted out a message on Twitter saying 'common sense conservatives, don't retreat -- instead reload.' And she referred folks to her Facebook page. On that Facebook page was a list of Democratic members she was putting in crosshairs, and Gabrielle Giffords was one of those in the crosshairs."
Yellin noted that Palin had "posted a statement on Facebook saying that 'my sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and other victims of today's tragic shooting in Arizona. On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families and for peace and justice.'" Yellin continued: "And I should point out that Republican leaders in Washington have said that this is not a partisan issue, this is about violence, as have some tea party groups. But clearly this is a moment to talk about our political rhetoric."
"It certainly is," Blitzer agreed. "But the question is, is there any evidence that the suspected shooter in this particular case was a Sarah Palin fan, read Sarah Palin's website, was a member on Facebook, watched her tweets, or anything like that?"
"None at all," Yellin responded. "And there is no evidence that this was even inspired by rage over health care, broadly. So there is no overt connection between Sarah Palin, health care, and the [shootings]."
Indeed, there is no "overt" or any other sort of connection between Loughner and Palin. If such evidence came to light, it would certainly be news. But without that evidence, and after a brief caveat, the CNN group went back to discussing the theory that Loughner acted out of rage inspired by Palin and other Republicans. Conclusions were jumped to all around.
And it wasn't just CNN. Other media outlets were also filled with speculation about the attack and pronouncements on the state of American political rhetoric. What a markedly different situation from 15 months earlier when, in the face of actual evidence that Maj. Hasan was inspired by Islamist convictions, many media commentators sought to be voices of caution. Where was that caution after the shootings in Arizona?
.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE7092G220110110
Clinton says Arizona shooter was "extremist"
ABU DHABI (Reuters) - Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called the shooter who attacked Arizona congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords an "extremist," and said people worldwide should reject radical ideologies.
Clinton, speaking Monday in the United Arab Emirates, made the comment in response to a question about the September 11, 2001 attacks, carried out by al Qaeda.
At a televised town hall-style meeting, Clinton was asked why U.S. opinion often appears to blame the entire Arab world for 9/11. Clinton said this was due to misperceptions and the media impact of political violence.
"We have extremists in my country. A wonderful, incredibly brave young woman Congress member, Congresswoman Giffords, was just shot by an extremist in our country," she added.
"We have the same kinds of problems. So rather than standing off from each other, we should work to try to prevent the extremists anywhere from being able to commit violence."
The U.S. government has charged the 22-year-old suspected shooter with trying to assassinate Giffords by shooting her in the head during a rampage that killed six people and wounded 14 in Tucson, Arizona.
The shooting has fueled debate about extreme political rhetoric in the United States after an acrimonious campaign for congressional elections in November.
Clinton, who said she hoped her current trip to the Gulf would help to strengthen U.S. and Arab mutual understanding, said both societies should work to offset the sometimes overly loud voices on the political fringes.
"The extremists and their voices, the crazy voices that sometimes get on the TV, that's not who we are, that's not who you are, and what we have to do is get through that and make it clear that that doesn't represent either American or Arab ideas or opinions," she said.
She said Muslims and particularly Arabs around the world should not believe media accounts of widespread U.S. antipathy toward them in the wake of the September 11 attacks.
"Although 9/11 was a very terrible tragedy for our country, in the years since, we have been working hard to build our partnerships and our relationships with the Arab world in particular," Clinton said, noting that President Barack Obama had made improving links with the Muslim world a key goal.
"This president and this administration are determined to isolate the extremists and not to let the extremists color the view in any place."
While some readers will think this thread has become a political shit stick stirring venue, may I remind everyone, that this webiste is for just that purpose. So, if you have an opinion, please post your thoughts after careful reflection. Remember also that the reading audience if fairly capable of reasonably reply.
FYI: An incident occured, a bad day for some, a good day for others. Trust me when I say, many in that crowd are at Mass today, because they feel lucky it did not happen to them.
No amount of legislation, talking heads forn the MSM, or political groups will prevent this from happening again. Incidents of this nature have been typically left to other regions of the world and for other reasons.
Welcome to our world, this will happen again and in a neighborhood near you.
So, (como), in answering you "team room" question, I will say this. I have a hot cup of coffee in my right hand, my shoulder leaning again the door, while my left hand is firming in my front pocket, I'm smiling at each of my team members and we are carefully contemplating our actions on the objective.
I know very clearly who the enemies of America are, do you?
I think your response to me in a website for warriors is indicitive of the very unfortunate place we find ourselves. My 5 year old daughter can recite the Plege of Alegence without help and the Lords Prayer. I offered my life to my country the day I turned 17 so some another American with a family might not have to go to Vietnam. You infer "Actions on the Objective" is my house? Do you want my address? I guess you also think the statement that "American Veterans are really Terrorist" made by our Government is reasonable. What a shame. Finally, with regard to who are our enemies, I know. I will let the facts speak for themselves. I would hope you and I are not. Anything we say can always be construed as threatening by some. Darn nasty thing, Free Speech. If I read you wrong, my sincere apologies. De Oppresso Liber
tom kelly
01-10-2011, 11:54
Good and Evil Reside in the same place........IN THE MIND.
Prayers out to the people who were killed and wounded in the shooting incident in Arizona.
Lessons to be learned from the shooting incident !
Bad things can happen at anytime & they come upon you in seconds....Always be Alert (Situational Awareness) Be prepared to take immediate action to eliminate the threat and save your life and the lives of others....Regard's, Tom Kelly
I think your response to me in a website for warriors is indicitive of the very unfortunate place we find ourselves. My 5 year old daughter can recite the Plege of Alegence without help and the Lords Prayer. I offered my life to my country the day I turned 17 so some another American with a family might not have to go to Vietnam. You infer "Actions on the Objective" is my house? Do you want my address? I guess you also think the statement that "American Veterans are really Terrorist" made by our Government is reasonable. What a shame. Finally, with regard to who are our enemies, I know. I will let the facts speak for themselves. I would hope you and I are not. Anything we say can always be construed as threatening by some. Darn nasty thing, Free Speech. If I read you wrong, my sincere apologies. De Oppresso Liber
I think you totally read him wrong.
You need to maybe read a little more on this site before you start reading into people's posts on this board and posting what you think they said.
http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2011/jan/10/clyburn-words-can-be-danger/
U.S. Rep. Jim Clyburn, the third-ranking Democrat in Congress, said Sunday the deadly shooting in Arizona should get the country thinking about what's acceptable to say publicly and when people should keep their mouths shut.
Clyburn said he thinks vitriol in public discourse led to a 22-year-old suspect opening fire Saturday at an event Democratic U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords held for her constituents in Tucson, Ariz. Six people were killed and 14 others were injured, including Giffords.
The shooting is cause for the country to rethink parameters on free speech, Clyburn said from his office, just blocks from the South Carolina Statehouse. He wants standards put in place to guarantee balanced media coverage with a reinstatement of the Fairness Doctrine, in addition to calling on elected officials and media pundits to use 'better judgment.'
'Free speech is as free speech does,' he said. 'You cannot yell ‘fire' in a crowded theater and call it free speech and some of what I hear, and is being called free speech, is worse than that.'
Snip
I think your response to me in a website for warriors is indicitive of the very unfortunate place we find ourselves. My 5 year old daughter can recite the Plege of Alegence without help and the Lords Prayer. I offered my life to my country the day I turned 17 so some another American with a family might not have to go to Vietnam. You infer "Actions on the Objective" is my house? Do you want my address? I guess you also think the statement that "American Veterans are really Terrorist" made by our Government is reasonable. What a shame. Finally, with regard to who are our enemies, I know. I will let the facts speak for themselves. I would hope you and I are not. Anything we say can always be construed as threatening by some. Darn nasty thing, Free Speech. If I read you wrong, my sincere apologies. De Oppresso Liber
como,
Without further clarification, you posted the following:
What disappointment it is to see this dribble. I have a question for the team: Who is the treat to America?
You may have been talking about the dribble from the media, or perhaps you were referring to this thread as dribble. You did not specify but it sounded like you were perhaps referring to this thread. As far as who is the threat? Yes, sometimes it is the media. I think that is what you meant by your post.
Otherwise,
I think that wet dog's response was appropriate given your lack of clarification in the meaning of your post. Also, he certainly doesn't need me to answer on his behalf but, you're silly response above indicates that you completely missread his response.
Nobody referred to your house as being the objective, or a target. You miss read the point he was making and therefore responded inappropriately. Not bad for your 3rd posting.
I would suggest you post with more clarity and read more thoroughly. If you have an over sensative or defensive interpretation, then read it again. You may be overreacting. Also, there is nothing wrong with seeking clarification. Try to infer the accurate meaning being given, before going on an inappropriate rant, especially against any QP on this site...
Just a suggestion, do what you will.....jd
Como - your post (#2), was simple, maybe too simple.
FUBAR
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What disappointment it is to see this dribble. I have a question for the team: Who is the treat to America?
Duty Honor Country
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Como -
America has many enemies, some internally, most externally.
The news, "it's dribble" tends to not help, but only confuses the issues of the day, perhaps this is by chance maybe its by design, I'll let others speak more clearly to that line of thinking, I am not a conspiracist.
What I do know is this,...
We have a battle tested well experienced enemy who will use whatever means necessary to accomplish his goals. He does not care about 'social market testing' to see if a particular brand of (put product here) works for him. He does not care about OERs, NCOERs, a second mortgage or should he consider buying the new iPod ebook reader. All he cares about is killing me, and you and our children.
I care little about your sensitivities. What I do care about is that your child and my child have a future.
I would run into a burning building to save your children, would you do the same for mine? If the answer is "Yes", then I will call you friend. If you are willing to assemble in a training area to rehearse endlessly "actions on an objective", then I will call you brother.
Our enemies want us to distroy ourselves from within, it only makes their jobs easier.
If political discourse is what you seek, you can find a lot of it here.
No apologies necessary, welcome to PS.com
GratefulCitizen
01-10-2011, 20:57
Wish the media would start forgetting about the criminal, let us mourn the innocent, and praise the heroes.
Not going to say or type the criminal's name.
Let him be tried, punished, and forgotten.
Many heroes stepped up, closed range, and took down the gunman before he did even more damage.
One hero honored his sacred vow, trading his life to save his wife's.
I'll raise a glass tonight to Dorwin Stoddard and the other heroes.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/blog-post/2011/01/dorwan_stoddard_arizona_shooti.html
Dorwin Stoddard, 76, died shielding his wife from the barrage of bullets. Mavanell "Mavy" Stoddard, 75, was shot in the leg several times but is expected to recover, friends said.
"He was a hero," said neighbor Marge Osterman.
Friends and church members knew well the Stoddards' love story: They were high school classmates in Tucson who moved away, married other people and made a life. When their spouses died, they moved back and reconnected. Both were leaders in their church benevolence ministry.
"They normally go out to breakfast every Saturday," said their pastor, the Rev. Mike Nowak. On this Saturday, Mavy told Nowak, she had wanted to tell their congresswoman that she was doing a good job.
Wish the media would start forgetting about the criminal, let us mourn the innocent, and praise the heroes.
Not going to say or type the criminal's name.
Let him be tried, punished, and forgotten.
Many heroes stepped up, closed range, and took down the gunman before he did even more damage.
One hero honored his sacred vow, trading his life to save his wife's.
I'll raise a glass tonight to Dorwin Stoddard and the other heroes.
Amen.
To Dorwin Stoddard and the other fine heros!
Cheers!
TrueBeliever
01-10-2011, 21:31
Wish the media would start forgetting about the criminal, let us mourn the innocent, and praise the heroes.
Not going to say or type the criminal's name.
Let him be tried, punished, and forgotten.
Many heroes stepped up, closed range, and took down the gunman before he did even more damage.
One hero honored his sacred vow, trading his life to save his wife's.
I'll raise a glass tonight to Dorwin Stoddard and the other heroes.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/blog-post/2011/01/dorwan_stoddard_arizona_shooti.html
God bless Mr. Stoddard, may he rest in peace and may God comfort his widow as she grieves her hero. I pray that Representative Gifford recovers sufficiently well to resume her post. Saturday, 8 January was a very sad day for our country.
As Wet Dog said previously, the enemy would like to see us destroy ourselves from within and I pray that we do not allow that to happen.
RIP the unfortunate victims of this crazy person; what does it matter his motive? Who cares when his action is to take the lives of others?
Lindy poses a good question earlier in this thread...does the death of a US federal judge warrant flying the flag at half-staff? Has this been the case in the past? Surely, it can't be done for Congresswoman Giffords, who isn't dead. Is it because this is somehow a "national level tragedy"?
Lindy poses a good question earlier in this thread...does the death of a US federal judge warrant flying the flag at half-staff? Has this been the case in the past? Surely, it can't be done for Congresswoman Giffords, who isn't dead. Is it because this is somehow a "national level tragedy"?
According to the Flag Code, only the President of the United States, your state's Governor, and the Mayor of the District of Columbia can order the US flag lowered to half-staff. I take this to also mean that its at their discretion for whom and or what circumstance its warrented.
Appearently it has been authourized as a national level tragedy. I havn't seen anything stating such as seen in the past, such as in a Pimblegrahm.
But, I'm not exactly in the net right now either.....jd
Murder in Arizona and the Gross Exploitation of It
Talking points memo January 10, 2011
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/index.html
I don’t always agree with O’Reilly but I try to watch “The Factor” on a regular basis and IMHO he is spot on with this one.
YMMV
I had to turn FOX off the day this was reported. Geraldo pushed his Sarah Palin hit job. I about puked. Why can't they get off ass and find the damn facts and then report? Mentally ill folks live everywhere.Fiction sells; facts are boring.;)
Guy,
Remember those two "sniper" idiots killing innocent people in Wash D.C.? Can you imagine if they had killed the woman working for the CIA first? Our moron driven media might have started WWIII.:rolleyes:
TSAfter those two were caught, I knew IF, I was stopped & searched, alarm bells were going too go off. Hell! I fully expected it (searched & detained) and planned accordingly.:D;)
Stay safe.
ZonieDiver
01-11-2011, 00:26
Lindy poses a good question earlier in this thread...does the death of a US federal judge warrant flying the flag at half-staff? Has this been the case in the past? Surely, it can't be done for Congresswoman Giffords, who isn't dead. Is it because this is somehow a "national level tragedy"?
I think 'the ship sailed' on half staff a long time ago. I mean NO disrespect, but the flag has been lowered often in the past few years for members of the military - to include privates. I think a federal judge qualifies. YMMV
(CBS) Shot and bleeding from the head, a retired Army colonel helped subdue the gunman who opened fire at a congresswoman's meet-and-greet in a Tucson grocery store Saturday.
Seventy-four-year-old Bill Badger was in a line of people waiting to greet Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords when the gunman - identified at 22-year-old Jared Loughner began the rampage that killed six people and wounded 19, including the congresswoman, who remains in critical condition.
"There was just a series of shots and I heard the shots and my first reaction was a firecracker, they were extremely loud," Badger told CBS affiliate KOLD in Tucson. "He'd already shot Representative Gabrielle Giffords and was shooting the people sitting in the chairs, coming right towards where I was standing. Everybody was hitting the sidewalk and I turned to my left and started to drop and I felt the stinging in the back of my head."
That sting was a bullet wound. But Badger pressed on.
"The shooting stopped and I raised up and didn't realize it, but he was right beside me. Right in front of me. And I got to my feet and one of the individuals who was there to see her was on the other side of the walkway, you know, right where he was walking and that individual took a folding chair, folded it and hit him on the back of the head and he moved his head forward so much of the blunt of it came right on the shoulders of his back and when they did that his left arm came out and it was my opportunity," Badger told KOLD.
"I grabbed his left arm and started to twist it back and grabbed him on the shoulder with my right hand another individual grabbed his right hand and together we pushed on him and he went right down on the sidewalk."
Badger and the other man pinned the suspect to the ground until police arrived.
"Anytime he would even start to move, I would tighten my grip on his throat, and the other guy would put more pressure on his neck to hold him down," Badger said. "And he'd holler, 'Oh, oh, you're hurting me! Oh, oh,' - like that. And that guy said, 'I don't give a [expletive].'"
Badger was treated at a nearby hospital and expects a full recovery.
After hearing the tale, Badger's wife Sallie said it didn't surprise her at all.
"The only thing that would have surprised me is that if he would not have done this," she told KOLD. "Bill is a man of action."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/01/10/national/main7230550.shtml
74yrs old and shot in the head and still helped take down a psycho with a gun.:lifter
Thank you sir, your bravery stopped that POS from killing more people. I’m sure your too humble to admit it but your definitely a hero.
"Anytime he would even start to move, I would tighten my grip on his throat, and the other guy would put more pressure on his neck to hold him down," Badger said. "And he'd holler, 'Oh, oh, you're hurting me! Oh, oh,' - like that. And that guy said, 'I don't give a [expletive].'" Kills innocent folks and then, cries like a b-i-t-c-h! SOB ain't nothing but a punk!:mad:
Stay safe.
Kills innocent folks and then, cries like a b-i-t-c-h! SOB ain't nothing but a punk!:mad:
I think that sums it up nicely Guy.
The little punk is lucky he lived long enough to get arrested.
He should receive as much mercy as he deserves.
"Anytime he would even start to move, I would tighten my grip on his throat,..." Badger said.
74yrs old and shot in the head and still helped take down a psycho with a gun.
Well that about sums it up.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/michael-moore-kathy-griffin-jane-70257
While reporters sift through every aspect of the life of accused killer Jared Lee Loughner in search of his motivation for shooting Arizona congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in the head and slaughtering random innocents, including a 9-year-old girl, some in Hollywood have already assigned blame to Fox News, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin and Bill O'Reilly.
Many opponents of the political right seized on Palin's online map that put certain districts in crosshairs indicating that Republicans should target their representatives for defeat in the elections two months ago.
Fonda said on her blog the day of the shooting -- before much was known about Loughner -- that she was "sure" that Giffords was shot by "right wing fanatics who have been repeatedly harassing and threatening Giffords, egged on by Sarah Palin and Glen (sic) Beck and Tea Party members."She reiterated those sentiments later in several tweets.
"When Palin put crosshairs on a map w/Rep. Giffords & 19 other Dem congressmen/women, she urged followers to 'reload' & 'aim' for Democrats," tweeted Moore, the filmmaker known for his left-wing documentaries.
"This now deleted image from Sarah Palin (sic) website will be reason this terrible shooting has huge political ramifications," CNN's Piers Morgan tweeted, linking to an image of the crosshairs map.
"Congresswoman in AZ, who is ON Sarah Palin's crosshairs map was SHOT in the head 2day. Happy now Sarah?" tweeted actress-comedienne-commentator Kathy Griffin.
On his MSNBC show, Keith Olbermann said Beck and O'Reilly should apologize on air for inspiring the killer and, if they don't, their sponsors should repudiate them and President Obama should consider canceling an interview scheduled on Fox with O'Reilly on Super Bowl Sunday.
Fox News head Roger Ailes chose an unusual venue to defend against the critics who claimed his network's star talent were inciting murder, telling Russell Simmons on the hip-hop mogul's GlobalGrind.com website that "it's just a bullshit way to use the death of a little girl to get Fox News in an argument."
He noted that maps with images of targets on them are often used in politics, including one from the Democrats in 2007 that contained "targets on it for the Palin district." Nevertheless, Ailes said he advised personalities on Fox News to tread lightly.
"I told all of our guys, shut up, tone it down, make your argument intellectually," he told Simmons. "You don't have to do it with bombast."
......."When Palin put crosshairs on a map w/Rep. Giffords & 19 other Dem congressmen/women, she urged followers to 'reload' & 'aim' for Democrats," tweeted Moore, the filmmaker known for his left-wing documentaries.......
Reload and aim?
Funny statement from someone who wanted to reload and aim at US pilots. But then again - to someone like Fonda US Pilots are the enemy.
Reload and aim?
Funny statement from someone who wanted to reload and aim at US pilots. But then again - to someone like Fonda US Pilots are the enemy.
Ironic how the LSM is recalcitrant in mentioning that the judge who was killed wasn't a Democrat.:rolleyes:
ddoering
01-11-2011, 10:16
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/michael-moore-kathy-griffin-jane-70257
Fonda said on her blog the day of the shooting -- before much was known about Loughner -- that she was "sure" that Giffords was shot by "right wing fanatics who have been repeatedly harassing and threatening Giffords, egged on by Sarah Palin and Glen (sic) Beck and Tea Party members."She reiterated those sentiments later in several tweets.
"This now deleted image from Sarah Palin (sic) website will be reason this terrible shooting has huge political ramifications," CNN's Piers Morgan tweeted, linking to an image of the crosshairs map.
One can only wonder that if these images cause people to do things like this why then is Jane still around? Seems to me her face has been on bumper stickers for years.
One can only wonder that if these images cause people to do things like this why then is Jane still around? Seems to me her face has been on bumper stickers for years.
We have her face in our urinal; it gives us something to aim at....jd
alright4u
01-11-2011, 12:01
I think your response to me in a website for warriors is indicitive of the very unfortunate place we find ourselves. My 5 year old daughter can recite the Plege of Alegence without help and the Lords Prayer. I offered my life to my country the day I turned 17 so some another American with a family might not have to go to Vietnam. You infer "Actions on the Objective" is my house? Do you want my address? I guess you also think the statement that "American Veterans are really Terrorist" made by our Government is reasonable. What a shame. Finally, with regard to who are our enemies, I know. I will let the facts speak for themselves. I would hope you and I are not. Anything we say can always be construed as threatening by some. Darn nasty thing, Free Speech. If I read you wrong, my sincere apologies. De Oppresso Liber
Your profile states born 1959. How did you keep anyone from going to RVN at age 17? The war was over in May 75.?
Please do not try to impress others.
TommyGun
01-11-2011, 12:03
Gun Control GURU!
By SHIRA TOEPLITZ | 1/9/11 5:57 PM EST
One of the fiercest gun control advocates in Congress, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.), pounced on the shooting massacre in Tucson, Ariz., Sunday, promising to introduce legislation as soon as Monday targeting the high-capacity ammunition clip the gunman used.
McCarthy ran for Congress after her husband was gunned down and her son seriously injured in a shooting in 1993 on a Long Island commuter train.
“My staff is working on looking at the different legislation fixes that we might be able to do and we might be able to introduce as early as tomorrow,” McCarthy told POLITICO in a Sunday afternoon phone interview.
Sen. Frank R. Lautenberg (D-NJ) said he’s preparing to introduce a similar bill in the Senate.
“The only reason to have 33 bullets loaded in a handgun is to kill a lot of people very quickly,” Lautenberg said in a statement. “These high-capacity clips simply should not be on the market.“
Gun control activists said it was time to reform weapons laws in the United States almost immediately after a gunman killed six and injured 14 more, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, in Arizona on Saturday.
Many said that people with a history of mental instability, like the alleged shooter, Jared Lee Loughner, should not be able to buy a gun — and no one should be able to buy stockpiles of the ammunition allegedly used by the 22-year-old assailant.
McCarthy said she plans to confer with House Speaker John Boehner and Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi to see “if we can work something through” in the coming week.
McCarthy’s spokesman confirmed that the legislation will target the high-capacity ammunition clips the Arizona gunman allegedly used in the shooting, but neither he nor the congresswoman offered any further details.
“Again, we need to look at how this is going to work to protect people, certainly citizens, and we have to look at what I can pass,” McCarthy said. “I don’t want to give the National Rifle Association — excuse the pun — the ammunition to come at me, either.”
Pennsylvania Rep. Robert Brady, a Democrat from Philadelphia, told CNN that he also plans to take legislative action. He will introduce a bill that would make it a crime for anyone to use language or symbols that could be seen as threatening or violent against a federal official, including a member of Congress.
Another vocal supporter of gun control, Illinois Rep. Mike Quigley, told POLITICO that he hopes “something good” can come from the Arizona tragedy — perhaps discussion of a new assault weapons ban, sales at gun shows and tracing measures.
Loughner legally purchased his weapon — a Glock 19 with an extended magazine — from an Arizona store. The same kind of extended magazine was illegal under the assault weapons ban that expired in 2004.
“The ability to buy a weapon that fires hundreds of bullets in less than a minute” is a problem, said Quigley. “He had an additional magazine capability. That’s not what a hunter needs. That’s not what someone needs to defend their home. That’s what you use to hunt people.”
After the Virginia Tech massacre in 2007, in which a student with a history of psychological problems killed 33 and injured 25 others, lawmakers immediately started looking at gun control reforms at both the state and the federal level.
Then-Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine issued an executive order making it harder for people who have been committed to mental health treatment centers to buy a gun.
In 2008 President George W. Bush signed a law expanding the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, which registered gun dealers use, to include more comprehensive reporting of mental health records. Under the current law, it is illegal for anyone who has been “adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution” to purchase a firearm, according to the FBI’s website.
However, Loughner did not fall into either of those categories, according to Josh Horwitz, executive director of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence.
“I’ve seen no evidence that he falls into those categories. It’s the same thing as this guy at Virginia Tech,” said Horwitz. “We can do a much better job checking people’s mental health background.”
Team Sergeant
01-11-2011, 12:19
I think your response to me in a website for warriors is indicitive of the very unfortunate place we find ourselves. My 5 year old daughter can recite the Plege of Alegence without help and the Lords Prayer. I offered my life to my country the day I turned 17 so some another American with a family might not have to go to Vietnam. You infer "Actions on the Objective" is my house? Do you want my address? I guess you also think the statement that "American Veterans are really Terrorist" made by our Government is reasonable. What a shame. Finally, with regard to who are our enemies, I know. I will let the facts speak for themselves. I would hope you and I are not. Anything we say can always be construed as threatening by some. Darn nasty thing, Free Speech. If I read you wrong, my sincere apologies. De Oppresso Liber
I was not old enough to go to Vietman and by your year of birth neither were you.
You now have my full attention (as well as a few others).And as has been said before we don't suffer frauds lightly. You are about to be banned for being a liar.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47338.html
One of the fiercest gun-control advocates in Congress, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.), pounced on the shooting massacre in Tucson Sunday, promising to introduce legislation as soon as Monday targeting the high-capacity ammunition the gunman used.McCarthy ran for Congress after her husband was gunned down and her son seriously injured in a shooting in 1993 on a Long Island commuter train.
“My staff is working on looking at the different legislation fixes that we might be able to do and we might be able to introduce as early as tomorrow,” McCarthy told POLITICO in a Sunday afternoon phone interview.
Gun control activists cried it was time to reform weapons laws in the United States, almost immediately after a gunman killed six and injured 14 more, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, in Arizona on Saturday.
Many said that people with a history of mental instability, like the alleged shooter, Jared Lee Loughner, should not be able to buy a gun — and no one should be able to buy stockpiles of ammunition used by the 22-year-old assailant.
Snip
High capacity ammunition? What is that? haha - But a high capacity magazine, now thats a real problem. Hell, if he had a .45 he could have only killed 8 people instead of 20.
20 rounds is a stockpile?
Prayers to those innocents caught up in this lunatics ambush.
como,
Without further clarification, you posted the following:
What disappointment it is to see this dribble. I have a question for the team: Who is the treat to America?
You may have been talking about the dribble from the media, or perhaps you were referring to this thread as dribble. You did not specify but it sounded like you were perhaps referring to this thread. As far as who is the threat? Yes, sometimes it is the media. I think that is what you meant by your post.
Otherwise,
I think that wet dog's response was appropriate given your lack of clarification in the meaning of your post. Also, he certainly doesn't need me to answer on his behalf but, you're silly response above indicates that you completely missread his response.
Nobody referred to your house as being the objective, or a target. You miss read the point he was making and therefore responded inappropriately. Not bad for your 3rd posting.
I would suggest you post with more clarity and read more thoroughly. If you have an over sensative or defensive interpretation, then read it again. You may be overreacting. Also, there is nothing wrong with seeking clarification. Try to infer the accurate meaning being given, before going on an inappropriate rant, especially against any QP on this site...
Just a suggestion, do what you will.....jd
You are absolutly right. Wrong starting statement and wrong place, was only directed at the media. I meant no harm and respect your criticism. I had thought all was fine except the reference to action, etc, etc. and didn't know what to make of it since it was a response to me. Again, full apologies.
Best Wishes.
Como - your post (#2), was simple, maybe too simple.
FUBAR
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What disappointment it is to see this dribble. I have a question for the team: Who is the treat to America?
Duty Honor Country
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Como -
America has many enemies, some internally, most externally.
The news, "it's dribble" tends to not help, but only confuses the issues of the day, perhaps this is by chance maybe its by design, I'll let others speak more clearly to that line of thinking, I am not a conspiracist.
What I do know is this,...
We have a battle tested well experienced enemy who will use whatever means necessary to accomplish his goals. He does not care about 'social market testing' to see if a particular brand of (put product here) works for him. He does not care about OERs, NCOERs, a second mortgage or should he consider buying the new iPod ebook reader. All he cares about is killing me, and you and our children.
I care little about your sensitivities. What I do care about is that your child and my child have a future.
I would run into a burning building to save your children, would you do the same for mine? If the answer is "Yes", then I will call you friend. If you are willing to assemble in a training area to rehearse endlessly "actions on an objective", then I will call you brother.
Our enemies want us to distroy ourselves from within, it only makes their jobs easier.
If political discourse is what you seek, you can find a lot of it here.
No apologies necessary, welcome to PS.com
I regret this incident and would rather let it fade away, however; I owe you my deepest apology. I made an unclear comment and reacted badly.
God forbid, your daughter should be in peril, there is only one answer. To return her to you safe.
Never rest. Vigilent. Honorable. This is our watch. I am gratefull to know I am not alone.
Final Post. Out.
We have her face in our urinal; it gives us something to aim at....jd
Most excellent.
I never use the "C" word...except when it comes to her. Rot in hell bitch, no one cares what you think.
I never use the "C" word
Heck, I call people "commies" all the time. ;)
Pat
Reload and aim?
Funny statement from someone who wanted to reload and aim at US pilots. But then again - to someone like Fonda US Pilots are the enemy.
Sir,
jane is thought by many of us as excrement, needing to be used as fertilizer for corn, wheat, or some such crops. She is not even worth the oxagen she breathes, and if she was smart, the BITCH would simply end her pathetic excuse for existence, and help out a crop, IMO.:munchin
Holly
Saturation
01-11-2011, 20:22
And yet again Westboro uses this incident with plans to protest the funerals and post the bat sh*t craziest comments on their website as reported by the media.
The sole positive is hearing about the plans from the community to surround the child's funeral with 8 foot angels' wings.
Also heard they passed a law in Arizona to bar protestors for 300'.
So wish we, as a country, could focus as other commentors have stated on not making this political.
Grieve the child, grieve the goodness in each of the those that died, and remain vigilant.
http://patdollard.com/2011/01/unmasked-obama-coming-to-tucson-to-campaign-not-support-mourners-sham-exposed-see-the-tragedy-campaign-slogan-and-wait-for-it-logo/
The event, “Together We Thrive: Tucson and America” starts at 6 p.m. at McKale Center (just west of Campbell Avenue, north of E. 6th Street) and is free and open to the public. Doors will open at 4 p.m.
I think 'the ship sailed' on half staff a long time ago. I mean NO disrespect, but the flag has been lowered often in the past few years for members of the military - to include privates. I think a federal judge qualifies. YMMV
I think in the instances the flag was lowered for a service member it was done at the state level. No offense to the judge, but if he had died in a skiing accident rather than a shooting, would we be mourning his loss nationally? Premature death is sad no matter the cause, but trying to turn this event into a national rather than local tragedy is, IMO, just more political theater using the slain/wounded as cheap props.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/dem-congressman-who-called-gop-gov-be-put-against-wall-and-shot-n
Kanjorski calls for a Scott to get shot:
Politics from the Nation's Capital Dem Congressman who called for GOP Gov. to be put against a wall and shot now pleads for civility.
Ex-Rep. Paul Kanjorski, D-Pa., pens an op-ed in the New York Times today about the proper political response to this weekend's tragedy. I wholeheartedly support the former Congressman (Kanjorski lost his seat in November) when he argues that, following this weekend's shooting, Congressman need to remain open and accessible to the public. However, Kanjorski is rather hypocritical when he climbs up on his soapbox:
We all lose an element of freedom when security considerations distance public officials from the people. Therefore, it is incumbent on all Americans to create an atmosphere of civility and respect in which political discourse can flow freely, without fear of violent confrontation.
Incumbent on all Americans to create an atmosphere of civility and respect? Congressman heal thyself! Yesterday, I noted that, according to the Scranton Times, Kanjorski said this about Florida's new Republican Governor Rick Scott on October 23:
"That Scott down there that's running for governor of Florida," Mr. Kanjorski said. "Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him. http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/sen-kerry-questions-role-divisive-political-rhetoric-played-shoot
Then there's 'Nam Vet Kerry on killing G.W. Bush:
Sen. Kerry addresses 'divisive political rhetoric', report says Loughner was Kerry supporter in '04
Nearly a year ago, the Examiner's David Freddoso received a ridiculous fundraising email from Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., decrying Republicans' political rhetoric in an effort to make some green whilst delegitimizing the opposition. And Freddoso noted at the time, Kerry is not the most credible advocate for restrained political rhetoric, mentioning this incident from 2004, among other things:
Kerry was asked whether he couldn't have "killed two birds with one stone" by visiting New Hampshire. He responded with a mild joke about assassinating the president: "I could have gone to 1600 Pennsylvania and killed the real bird with one stone.".
Last hard class
01-12-2011, 10:49
Afraid of tea party violence, 4 Arizona republicans resign.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&sqi=2&ved=0CC4QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rawstory.com%2Frs%2F2011%2F01 %2Ffearing-tea-party-violence-arizona-republicans-resign%2F&ei=q9ktTd6YK5HSsAPJ9qCkBw&usg=AFQjCNGqrqQ8DUfrcd4Sa9hSU6xFeGXyaw
This country is going nuts.
LHC
Afraid of tea party violence, 4 Arizona republicans resign.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&sqi=2&ved=0CC4QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rawstory.com%2Frs%2F2011%2F01 %2Ffearing-tea-party-violence-arizona-republicans-resign%2F&ei=q9ktTd6YK5HSsAPJ9qCkBw&usg=AFQjCNGqrqQ8DUfrcd4Sa9hSU6xFeGXyaw
This country is going nuts.
LHC
RINOs and libs unite to trash Tea Party folks. The only thing that scares a RINO more than a lib running against them is a Tea Party rally in their district.
Which victim was the primary target?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfQoK5idGmg
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47277.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/01/08/national/main7226900.shtml
Afraid of tea party violence, 4 Arizona republicans resign.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&sqi=2&ved=0CC4QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rawstory.com%2Frs%2F2011%2F01 %2Ffearing-tea-party-violence-arizona-republicans-resign%2F&ei=q9ktTd6YK5HSsAPJ9qCkBw&usg=AFQjCNGqrqQ8DUfrcd4Sa9hSU6xFeGXyaw
This country is going nuts.
LHCLuckily I don't live in the AO, I'd be all over his position like a fat baby in a donut shop.:D
Stay safe.
Afraid of tea party violence, 4 Arizona republicans resign.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&sqi=2&ved=0CC4QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rawstory.com%2Frs%2F2011%2F01 %2Ffearing-tea-party-violence-arizona-republicans-resign%2F&ei=q9ktTd6YK5HSsAPJ9qCkBw&usg=AFQjCNGqrqQ8DUfrcd4Sa9hSU6xFeGXyaw
This country is going nuts.
LHC
lol Chicken Shits
http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/why-hasnt-obama-warned-against-jumping-conclusions-he-did-after-f
Why hasn't Obama warned against 'jumping to conclusions,' as he did after Ft. Hood?
By: Byron York 01/11/11 8:34 AM
Chief Political Correspondent
On November 6, 2009, the day after Maj. Nidal Hussein allegedly killed 13 people at Ft. Hood, Texas, President Obama made a brief statement to the nation. "This morning I met with FBI Director Mueller and the relevant agencies to discuss their ongoing investigation into what caused one individual to turn his gun on fellow service men and women," the president said. "We don't know all the answers yet, and I would caution against jumping to conclusions until we have all the facts."
As the president spoke, there was much public speculation about Hasan's possible motive -- there were reports, for example, that he shouted "Allahu Akbar!" before he began shooting; that he visited websites associated with Islamist violence; that he wrote Internet postings justifying Muslim suicide bombings; that he considered U.S. forces his enemy; that he opposed American involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan as wars on Islam; and that he told a neighbor shortly before the shootings that he was going "to do good work for God." Still, Obama warned the nation against "jumping to conclusions" about a motive for the murders.
Now, Obama is preparing a speech on another killing spree, the shootings in Tucson, Arizona that targeted Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, killing six and wounding 14. Obama has made three public statements about the violence, each expressing regret for the event, sympathy for the victims, and a determination to find the cause. But even as television, radio, the Internet and print publications have been filled with speculation about the killer's motive, Obama has not cautioned against "jumping to conclusions," as he did in the Hasan case.
"We do not yet have all the answers," the president said in a written statement Saturday. "What we do know is that such a senseless and terrible act of violence has no place in a free society."
"A suspect is currently in custody, but we don’t yet know what provoked this unspeakable act," the president said in public remarks later on Saturday. "A comprehensive investigation is currently underway, and at my direction, [FBI] Director Bob Mueller is en route to Arizona to help coordinate these efforts."
On Monday, Obama spoke again, this time during a press appearance with French President Nicolas Sarkozy. "We have a criminal investigation that is ongoing and charges that no doubt will be brought against the perpetrator of this heinous crime," Obama said. "In the coming days we're going to have a lot of time to reflect. Right now, the main thing we're doing is to offer our thoughts and prayers to those who've been impacted, making sure that we're joining together and pulling together as a country." Perhaps Obama's "a lot of time to reflect" was an indirect appeal to people to ease up on speculation about the crime, but if it was, it was quite indirect. And it certainly wasn't the specific warning against "jumping to conclusions" that the president issued after the Ft. Hood shootings.
On Wednesday Obama will make a more definitive statement about the Arizona shootings when he travels to Tucson for a memorial service. Perhaps then he will address the extensive charges, made mostly by his supporters, that the violence was the result of overheated rhetoric from Sarah Palin, the Tea Party, Rush Limbaugh, and Republicans in general. Will Obama take the side of those who blame the violence on the political Right? Or will he place the blame solely on accused shooter Jared Loughner, whose apparent mental illness fits no recognized political template?
When Obama made his main speech about the Ft. Hood killings, at a November 10, 2009 memorial service, he devoted 61 words of a 2,000-word speech to the killer's motive. "It may be hard to comprehend the twisted logic that led to this tragedy," Obama said. "But this much we do know -- no faith justifies these murderous and craven acts; no just and loving God looks upon them with favor. For what he has done, we know that the killer will be met with justice -- in this world, and the next."
In that speech, Obama took care to place blame squarely on the accused killer, Hasan, and not on any larger idea, ideology, faith, or political viewpoint. What will he say when the time comes to discuss the crimes of Jared Loughner?
Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/why-hasnt-obama-warned-against-jumping-conclusions-he-did-after-f#ixzz1Av9Bsv3b
ddoering
01-13-2011, 07:24
Afraid of tea party violence, 4 Arizona republicans resign.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&sqi=2&ved=0CC4QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rawstory.com%2Frs%2F2011%2F01 %2Ffearing-tea-party-violence-arizona-republicans-resign%2F&ei=q9ktTd6YK5HSsAPJ9qCkBw&usg=AFQjCNGqrqQ8DUfrcd4Sa9hSU6xFeGXyaw
This country is going nuts.
LHC
A definate lack of conviction imo.
Afraid of tea party violence, 4 Arizona republicans resign.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&sqi=2&ved=0CC4QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rawstory.com%2Frs%2F2011%2F01 %2Ffearing-tea-party-violence-arizona-republicans-resign%2F&ei=q9ktTd6YK5HSsAPJ9qCkBw&usg=AFQjCNGqrqQ8DUfrcd4Sa9hSU6xFeGXyaw
This country is going nuts.
LHC
For some reason, these resignations have stuck in my mind since yesterday. Here are my thoughts.
1 - Ive been following the Tea Party since Sean Hanity first mentioned them. They have NEVER, repeat NEVER advocated violence. Never. Now they have never expressed love for the liberals in power, but they have also been critical of the pseudo conservatives. So why all of a sudden, have they been labeled extremists and murderers? My feeling? Its because people are listening, and applying what they learn in the voting booth. So they are the enemy, and as such, they must be discredited and America must be made to fear them. Turn them into KKK or domestic terrorist and maybe they will loose their following.
The sad part about this is, that they are pushing for more conservative values, greater accountability, lowered taxes. All the things that the current administration campaigned on, and has yet to implement.
2 - American service members risk their lives on foreign soil for American ideologies, beliefs, freedoms. The import of these are weighed by the powers that be and choices are made to put our men and women in harms way as a result of those decisions. I believe that these people quitting their jobs and stating that it was because they feared for their lives is deplorable. Can military members do that? How weak are their beliefs, how short is their supply of patriotism? They speak of 'serving' the public, yet its painfully obvious that 'serving' only applies when there is no hint of danger, imagined or otherwise. I wonder if these people are privy to the disgustingly fat benefit package that 'public servants' are entitled to, in spite of abandoning their posts.
These are my perceptions.
One note: Did anyone catch Obama saying "life partners' last night instead of wife/husband? Tells me that even though same sex marriage is still illegal in most places, the concept of marriage is being slowly deemphasized. Our values are being slowly eroded from the top.
With Respect
Hand
^^ You changed it.... That was pretty good
^^ You changed it.... That was pretty good
I felt like i was arguing at a wake, so I thought I should start a new topic........
alright4u
01-13-2011, 09:40
http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/why-hasnt-obama-warned-against-jumping-conclusions-he-did-after-f
Why hasn't Obama warned against 'jumping to conclusions,' as he did after Ft. Hood?
By: Byron York 01/11/11 8:34 AM
Chief Political Correspondent
On November 6, 2009, the day after Maj. Nidal Hussein allegedly killed 13 people at Ft. Hood, Texas, President Obama made a brief statement to the nation. "This morning I met with FBI Director Mueller and the relevant agencies to discuss their ongoing investigation into what caused one individual to turn his gun on fellow service men and women," the president said. "We don't know all the answers yet, and I would caution against jumping to conclusions until we have all the facts."
As the president spoke, there was much public speculation about Hasan's possible motive -- there were reports, for example, that he shouted "Allahu Akbar!" before he began shooting; that he visited websites associated with Islamist violence; that he wrote Internet postings justifying Muslim suicide bombings; that he considered U.S. forces his enemy; that he opposed American involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan as wars on Islam; and that he told a neighbor shortly before the shootings that he was going "to do good work for God." Still, Obama warned the nation against "jumping to conclusions" about a motive for the murders.
Now, Obama is preparing a speech on another killing spree, the shootings in Tucson, Arizona that targeted Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, killing six and wounding 14. Obama has made three public statements about the violence, each expressing regret for the event, sympathy for the victims, and a determination to find the cause. But even as television, radio, the Internet and print publications have been filled with speculation about the killer's motive, Obama has not cautioned against "jumping to conclusions," as he did in the Hasan case.
"We do not yet have all the answers," the president said in a written statement Saturday. "What we do know is that such a senseless and terrible act of violence has no place in a free society."
"A suspect is currently in custody, but we don’t yet know what provoked this unspeakable act," the president said in public remarks later on Saturday. "A comprehensive investigation is currently underway, and at my direction, [FBI] Director Bob Mueller is en route to Arizona to help coordinate these efforts."
On Monday, Obama spoke again, this time during a press appearance with French President Nicolas Sarkozy. "We have a criminal investigation that is ongoing and charges that no doubt will be brought against the perpetrator of this heinous crime," Obama said. "In the coming days we're going to have a lot of time to reflect. Right now, the main thing we're doing is to offer our thoughts and prayers to those who've been impacted, making sure that we're joining together and pulling together as a country." Perhaps Obama's "a lot of time to reflect" was an indirect appeal to people to ease up on speculation about the crime, but if it was, it was quite indirect. And it certainly wasn't the specific warning against "jumping to conclusions" that the president issued after the Ft. Hood shootings.
On Wednesday Obama will make a more definitive statement about the Arizona shootings when he travels to Tucson for a memorial service. Perhaps then he will address the extensive charges, made mostly by his supporters, that the violence was the result of overheated rhetoric from Sarah Palin, the Tea Party, Rush Limbaugh, and Republicans in general. Will Obama take the side of those who blame the violence on the political Right? Or will he place the blame solely on accused shooter Jared Loughner, whose apparent mental illness fits no recognized political template?
When Obama made his main speech about the Ft. Hood killings, at a November 10, 2009 memorial service, he devoted 61 words of a 2,000-word speech to the killer's motive. "It may be hard to comprehend the twisted logic that led to this tragedy," Obama said. "But this much we do know -- no faith justifies these murderous and craven acts; no just and loving God looks upon them with favor. For what he has done, we know that the killer will be met with justice -- in this world, and the next."
In that speech, Obama took care to place blame squarely on the accused killer, Hasan, and not on any larger idea, ideology, faith, or political viewpoint. What will he say when the time comes to discuss the crimes of Jared Loughner?
Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/why-hasnt-obama-warned-against-jumping-conclusions-he-did-after-f#ixzz1Av9Bsv3b
This is the Bill Ayers progressive, commie, hate America politics at it's worse. Obozo just had to make a deal of this.
Pat Buchanan stated this about a year ago.
http://www.nerepublican.com/index.php/2009/02/03/buchanans-letter-to-obama/
Yet, our President with his queen and her 1.6 million a year servants meticulously planned a political rally.
SAD.
Team Sergeant
01-13-2011, 09:45
Best wishes and get well Gabrielle Giffords!
Team Sergeant
Congresswomen Describe Seeing Giffords Open Eye
Updated: Thursday, 13 Jan 2011, 7:44 AM MST
Published : Thursday, 13 Jan 2011, 7:44 AM MST
JULIE PACE, Associated Press
ABOARD AIR FORCE ONE (AP) — Rep. Gabrielle Giffords' friends say it's nothing short of a miracle: Days after being shot in the head point-blank, the injured congresswoman opened an eye Wednesday for the first time.
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/politics/apx-USCongresswoman-ShotFriends_89438143-01132011
alright4u
01-13-2011, 10:02
Amen.
Foot Drill
01-13-2011, 11:12
x
I completely disagree, and frankly these types’ statements worry me. I do agree that it would be completely wrong to use the situation in such a way, but to compare people who talk about the situation and use it to their political advantage, or whatever kind of advantage you are thinking of, with people who commit mass murder and kill innocent 9 year old girls and grandparents is clearly a cognitive distortion. And such a statement gives credence to say that they, like the P.O.S Jared L., deserve death for what they have done. It’s this type of distorted thought and influence that is likely the reason the situation arose in the first place. I know I may catch a firestorm a crap from disagreeing with you, Team Sergeant, but statements like that can’t go uncontested.
Bullshit
I completely disagree, and frankly these types’ statements worry me. I do agree that it would be completely wrong to use the situation in such a way, but to compare people who talk about the situation and use it to their political advantage, or whatever kind of advantage you are thinking of, with people who commit mass murder and kill innocent 9 year old girls and grandparents is clearly a cognitive distortion. And such a statement gives credence to say that they, like the P.O.S Jared L., deserve death for what they have done. It’s this type of distorted thought and influence that is likely the reason the situation arose in the first place. I know I may catch a firestorm a crap from disagreeing with you, Team Sergeant, but statements like that can’t go uncontested.
Gentlemen,
Nice point. It could be said that those who attempt to use this tragedy (politicians) to their advantage, or to further their agenda, etc... are simply exercising their right to free speech, although it is morally abhorrent to do so.
Along this same lines, that Westboro idiot protesting at funerals. Disgusting, despicable behavior. But until Arizona rushed into passing their anti-protesting law, it was not illegal.
Its interesting (although sometimes painful) to discuss this from the perspective of morally wrong (what politicians are doing with this) vs illegal (actually committing the act of murder).
Respectfully,
Hand.
Team Sergeant
01-13-2011, 11:55
Gentlemen,
Nice point. It could be said that those who attempt to use this tragedy (politicians) to their advantage, or to further their agenda, etc... are simply exercising their right to free speech, although it is morally abhorrent to do so.
Along this same lines, that Westboro idiot protesting at funerals. Disgusting, despicable behavior. But until Arizona rushed into passing their anti-protesting law, it was not illegal.
Its interesting (although sometimes painful) to discuss this from the perspective of morally wrong (what politicians are doing with this) vs illegal (actually committing the act of murder).
Respectfully,
Hand.
I could not have said it better.
Disagree all you like Foot Drill. rahm emanuel would be proud of you!
"you never want a serious crisis go to waste"
rahm emanuel
I completely disagree, and frankly these types’ statements worry me. I do agree that it would be completely wrong to use the situation in such a way, but to compare people who talk about the situation and use it to their political advantage, or whatever kind of advantage you are thinking of, with people who commit mass murder and kill innocent 9 year old girls and grandparents is clearly a cognitive distortion. And such a statement gives credence to say that they, like the P.O.S Jared L., deserve death for what they have done. It’s this type of distorted thought and influence that is likely the reason the situation arose in the first place. I know I may catch a firestorm a crap from disagreeing with you, Team Sergeant, but statements like that can’t go uncontested.
Let me ask a question of you in a round about way. Say politicians use this situation to ban the private ownership of firearms. All those who obey the law turn them in, all who do not keep them. The thugs use the advantage to make a major assualt on the unarmed - see British crime rates and what happened to homeowners who defended themselves.
Could not the deaths from that crime wave be layed at the feet of politicians?
How about the parole board who turns a thug free and then he kills a cop? Does the parole board share any of the blame?
Notice how politicians and government workers (Departments of Social Services) get a pass when they screw up other peoples lives.
I completely disagree, and frankly these types’ statements worry me. I do agree that it would be completely wrong to use the situation in such a way, but to compare people who talk about the situation and use it to their political advantage, or whatever kind of advantage you are thinking of, with people who commit mass murder and kill innocent 9 year old girls and grandparents is clearly a cognitive distortion. And such a statement gives credence to say that they, like the P.O.S Jared L., deserve death for what they have done. It’s this type of distorted thought and influence that is likely the reason the situation arose in the first place. I know I may catch a firestorm a crap from disagreeing with you, Team Sergeant, but statements like that can’t go uncontested.
I will step in the fray and agree that mass murder is worse than running at the mouth, no matter how distasteful the rhetoric or how distorted. I can turn off the volume on the news or change the channel. I can vote as I please. I cannot bring 6 people back from the dead or expedite the Congresswoman's recovery. I don't think the TS was being that literal.
IMHO -- the Team Sergeant was just turning up the contrast to voice his rightful disgust at how quickly people jump on an issue with few facts but lots of enthusiasm. This forum has a main audience of QP's and accepted guests. If a QP wants to let off steam, I prefer that to any politician and certainly think this is a logical place to do it.
my $.02
The Reaper
01-13-2011, 14:42
I will step in the fray and agree that mass murder is worse than running at the mouth, no matter how distasteful the rhetoric or how distorted. I can turn off the volume on the news or change the channel. I can vote as I please. I cannot bring 6 people back from the dead or expedite the Congresswoman's recovery. I don't think the TS was being that literal.
IMHO -- the Team Sergeant was just turning up the contrast to voice his rightful disgust at how quickly people jump on an issue with few facts but lots of enthusiasm. This forum has a main audience of QP's and accepted guests. If a QP wants to let off steam, I prefer that to any politician and certainly think this is a logical place to do it.
my $.02
How many people did Hitler personally kill?
Can the evil ideas not be worse than the actions of a single criminal?
TR
greenberetTFS
01-13-2011, 14:50
Gentlemen,
Nice point. It could be said that those who attempt to use this tragedy (politicians) to their advantage, or to further their agenda, etc... are simply exercising their right to free speech, although it is morally abhorrent to do so.
Along this same lines, that Westboro idiot protesting at funerals. Disgusting, despicable behavior. But until Arizona rushed into passing their anti-protesting law, it was not illegal.
Its interesting (although sometimes painful) to discuss this from the perspective of morally wrong (what politicians are doing with this) vs illegal (actually committing the act of murder).
Respectfully,
Hand.
Fill out your profile!.........:rolleyes:
Big Teddy :munchin
This is the Bill Ayers progressive, commie, hate America politics at it's worse. Obozo just had to make a deal of this.
Pat Buchanan stated this about a year ago.
http://www.nerepublican.com/index.php/2009/02/03/buchanans-letter-to-obama/
Yet, our President with his queen and her 1.6 million a year servants meticulously planned a political rally.
SAD.
I was at the 'remembrance rally' "our President and his queen" put on at Ft Hood. There was a collective sigh of relief after it was over. I think it helped to dissipate the dark cloud hanging over the place after MAJ Hassan shot up the SRP.
I would say the grand majority of us took it for face "remembrance" value rather than seeing it as some grandiose plan for media exposure and showing the country that he cares about the troops (although we all knew that was part of his reasoning.)
IMHO opinion most of the people that showed up in Tucson that night left better off emotionally than they were before. If it's good enough for them, was it wrong for the President to go down there and do it? :munchin
I was at the 'remembrance rally' "our President and his queen" put on at Ft Hood. There was a collective sigh of relief after it was over. I think it helped to dissipate the dark cloud hanging over the place after MAJ Hassan shot up the SRP.
I would say the grand majority of us took it for face "remembrance" value rather than seeing it as some grandiose plan for media exposure and showing the country that he cares about the troops (although we all knew that was part of his reasoning.)
IMHO opinion most of the people that showed up in Tucson that night left better off emotionally than they were before. If it's good enough for them, was it wrong for the President to go down there and do it? :munchin
No, it wasn't wrong for him to go down there and make a showing. It was wrong for him and every other left wing sleazebag to politicize it.
Anyone who can't see through what's been done by the liberals regarding this incident is either too dumb to breathe or a liberal himself.
My issue with the president's comments yesterday--the transcript and video of which are available here (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/01/12/remarks-president-barack-obama-memorial-service-victims-shooting-tucson) and there (http://www.whitehouse.gov/photos-and-video/video/2011/01/12/president-obama-memorial-arizona)--can be narrowed down in to comment; a comment the president himself spoke.As we discuss these issues, let each of us do so with a good dose of humility. Rather than pointing fingers or assigning blame, let’s use this occasion to expand our moral imaginations, to listen to each other more carefully, to sharpen our instincts for empathy and remind ourselves of all the ways that our hopes and dreams are bound together.In his journey from the senate, to his candidacy for this nation's highest elected office, and to the Oval Office itself, how many times have we heard/read the man point fingers, assign blame, fail to use a 'moral imagination,' and to fail utterly to show an appropriate amount of empathy?
IMO, it would have been quite different if the man had said yesterday something along the lines of "I'm using this tragedy as an opportunity to look in the mirror and to find my own way to be more like Gabby Giffords." Instead, he insinuated that there's nothing wrong with the way he does his thing, but rather it is his critics and opponents who have a problem.
Moreover, his comment "I want to live up to [Christina Green's] expectations" was an awful piece of political theater. You cannot ask a dead child "Am I doing right by you?" And making that goal a priority when there are hundreds of millions of living Americans who this president to do right by them is insulting.
And I'm have no doubt that it isn't by accident the this president calls for a specific type of 'civil' discourse while trying to discredit a contrasting style.
My $0.02.
No, it wasn't wrong for him to go down there and make a showing. It was wrong for him and every other left wing sleazebag to politicize it.
Anyone who can't see through what's been done by the liberals regarding this incident is either too dumb to breathe or a liberal himself.
I watched it and while there were slight political overtones I don't think it was enough for the proceedings to be seen as a political rally.
The liberals have made more outlandish statements than the conservatives on this one "Jared was Palin's Manchurian Candidate," but the conservatives haven't stayed silent... "just wait, the government will use this to come after our guns."
It looks like another example of people running to their team's side rather than trying to find positives in the situation. Retirees beat and subdued the gunman. Americans shielding each other from the bullets. Civilians applying buddy aid without training. Congresswoman gets shot in the back of her head and lives. The President refutes most of the idiotic ideas regarding blame, gives a pretty good memorial speech, and does it without the teleprompter :D
The irony of it is Congresswoman Giffords is one of the most moderate people in the House. I wonder what she will say about the post shooting situation when she regains her faculties.
My issue with the president's comments yesterday--the transcript and video of which are available here (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/01/12/remarks-president-barack-obama-memorial-service-victims-shooting-tucson) and there (http://www.whitehouse.gov/photos-and-video/video/2011/01/12/president-obama-memorial-arizona)--can be narrowed down in to comment; a comment the president himself spoke.In his journey from the senate, to his candidacy for this nation's highest elected office, and to the Oval Office itself, how many times have we heard/read the man point fingers, assign blame, fail to use a 'moral imagination,' and to fail utterly to show an appropriate amount of empathy?
IMO, it would have been quite different if the man had said yesterday something along the lines of "I'm using this tragedy as an opportunity to look in the mirror and to find my own way to be more like Gabby Giffords." Instead, he insinuated that there's nothing wrong with the way he does his thing, but rather it is his critics and opponents who have a problem.
Moreover, his comment "I want to live up to [Christina Green's] expectations" was an awful piece of political theater. You cannot ask a dead child "Am I doing right by you?" And making that goal a priority when there are hundreds of millions of living Americans who this president to do right by them is insulting.
And I'm have no doubt that it isn't by accident the this president calls for a specific type of 'civil' discourse while trying to discredit a contrasting style.
My $0.02.
That's nothing knew. Almost every memorial service I've been to has some sort of "make X proud" although "X" is dead. I doubt most Americans would find that insulting.
I definitely agree with your views on finger pointing. I'm sure if you cornered him on it he would say "I include myself when I say 'we' and 'each of us'"
That's nothing [new].Then his comments just highlight further his hypocrisy. He's supposed to be the first 'post-political' president.* But he goes on national television to appropriate awkwardly the life-story of a kid he'd never heard of before this past weekend to advance his own political agenda. (And yet it is we, his critics, who are labeled as "cynical.")
It would be something if the president would pick a political and personal identity and stick with it. Thus far, this president has only been consistent in his inconstancy and his incompetency.
I'm sure if you cornered him on it he would say "I include myself when I say 'we' and 'each of us'"Then why didn't he say so yesterday?
Why is it that this guy--touted for being thoughtful and articulate (IMO, he is clearly neither)--finds his foot in his mouth so often.
_____________________________________________
* The president said on 20 January 2009 (source is here (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/obama_inauguration/7840646.stm?ad=1)): On this day, we gather because we have chosen hope over fear, unity of purpose over conflict and discord.
On this day, we come to proclaim an end to the petty grievances and false promises, the recriminations and worn-out dogmas, that for far too long have strangled our politics.
The Reaper
01-13-2011, 17:18
I definitely agree with your views on finger pointing. I'm sure if you cornered him on it he would say "I include myself when I say 'we' and 'each of us'"
I heartily disagree.
I doubt that he has the capacity to admit such errors.
TR
Foot Drill
01-13-2011, 18:21
x
alright4u
01-13-2011, 19:26
I don't think it would have mattered what he said in his speech, there would be people that would make it political, right? What I really don't understand is your idea that making the speech about "I" instead of "we", and how that would have somehow made his speech better....really? Our president is speaking to a grieving husband whose wife was shot in the head days before, and a mother and father whose daughter was shot in the chest and killed, and all the other family and friends of the victims, and he should make it about himself? I've never been to one memorial where the speaker talked about "I this" and "I that.” Being a leader his tough and the president didn't have to give that speech, but as a leader he subjected himself to this ridicule of the likes of your statement. When I watched that speech I didn't sit there and think how he was using this speech the further political motives. Like most people who fall somewhere in the political center, I watched it as a shocked and pissed-off citizen, and as I sat there in my living room I conceived of the possibility that the 9 year old girl that was killed could have been my beautiful niece. And like most, I would love nothing more than to be locked in a room with that scumbag. This tragic event has been more politicized on this thread than on TV, but I don't watch it too much....and maybe I'll stop reading as much here. As Americans we are all brothers and sisters, and those killed that day very well could have been, bottom line.
PLEASE. My wife could not stand anyone speaking for a dead 9 year old, much less her dreams, etc. THE END.
Entire post.FD--
It is clear that you did not read my post carefully nor listen to the president's comments critically (which is exactly what he wants).
Foot Drill
01-13-2011, 20:01
x
"Together We Thrive"
Pretty catchy slogan. I wonder if it has been used before.
Maybe somebody like OfA could have used it in 2008.
Obama recycling campaign slogans? At a memorial? Naaaaa, no way - he's the prez.
Bordercop
01-14-2011, 11:18
The link: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/257053/once-more-unto-breach-civility-david-kahane
Once More unto the Breach of Civility
Who’s to blame for Tucson? Why, Sarah Palin and you, of course.
One of the tropes you wingnuts try to pin on us all the time is this: You just can’t help yourselves. By which you mean that, when a good Emanuelian crisis comes along and it simply cannot go to waste because it fits the narrative (two legs, good; four legs, Republican swine), we invariably expose ourselves as the sneering, sadistic little cultural sappers we are.
And you know what? You’re right!
Like many of us stalwart men of the Progressive-Media-Entertainment Complex, I have never been so beamish. As the president explained so eloquently Wednesday night, what happened in Tucson was a tragedy and all, but watching the wild-eyed Nobel laureate, Paul Krugman, pin the Glock on the elephant in the pages of the New York Times was simply wonderful. Based on nothing more than the loud voices coming through the fillings in his teeth, our bearded, pot-bellied superhero leapt into action the day after the Tucson shootings and started pointing the finger of blame where it always belongs: at Sarah Palin and the “climate of hate” she has brought down from Mystery, Alaska, to torment us here in the Lower 48. Naturally, a few of you protested that there was no actual evidence that the hated succubus who haunts our fever dreams and saps our purity of essence had anything to do with the gunman. Nor did any of the other right-wing crazies on our (symbolic!) hit lists — and you Limbaugh-loving teabaggers know who you are.
It’s true that Obama said: “But what we can’t do is use this tragedy as one more occasion to turn on one another. As we discuss these issues, let each of us do so with a good dose of humility. Rather than pointing fingers or assigning blame, let us use this occasion to expand our moral imaginations, to listen to each other more carefully, to sharpen our instincts for empathy, and remind ourselves of all the ways our hopes and dreams are bound together.”
But so what if he did? In the fantasy world in which we dwell, the only thing that counts is what’s inside our heads, and in our heads is where Sarah Palin lives and where she willfully continues to insert herself into the national conversation. Raised on relativism, psychiatry, and sociology; on values instead of morals; on transactional relationships instead of “absolute truths”; on heavy-metal music, atheism, and abortion on demand — we long ago slipped the moorings of empiricism and have ascended to the rarefied heights of Cockaigne and Cloud Cuckoo Land. Black is white, up is down, in is out — this is our world and you’re not welcome to it. Because it’s not for you to say what you do and do not stand for — we’ll be the judge of that. And here’s what we know about you:
You’re racists. You’re anti-Semites. You’re homophobes. You hate progress. You hate when people (i.e., us) have fun doing things you don’t like or, worse, doing things that deep down inside you really do like but don’t have the guts to actually do. You hate Metallica, Miles Davis, Mozart, and Marx. You think we’re something out of Petronius, licentious Roman poetasters, juvenile-delinquent voluptuaries peeling grapes while Alaric and Odovacar wait outside the gates. Meanwhile, you play the role of a disapproving, mocking Juvenal, satirizing our pagan ways.
In short, you’re the curmudgeons and killjoys in favor of restrictions and rules that prevent us from fully exercising our Gaia-given panoply of rights, which are pretty much anything we say they are, especially if you’re against them.
You seethe with anger over the presidency of Barack Hussein Obama II, still believe along with the racist Framers that black people are only worth three-fifths of white people, and that women belong barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, unless they’re in the delivery room. On the slightest pretext you will reach for your guns, especially in a toxic atmosphere like this one, and, like that right-wing assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald, you will commit any atrocity — even if it means “disguising” yourself as a Marxist and pro-Castro agitator just to fool us. There’s no end to your devilry.
So is it any wonder we immediately assume that you personally are responsible for everything bad that occurs in the world, you and Sarah Palin? Your very existence can only be an encouragement to nutballs, crazies, weirdos, and jackasses everywhere either to pick up a gun and start shooting, or to think about picking up a gun and start shooting, which to us is exactly the same thing. Like the somnambulists in Christopher Nolan’s Inception, we’ve drilled down so far into our dreams that reality and fantasy are indistinguishable, and we figure that if credentialed Ivy Leaguers like ourselves can’t tell the difference, why should you Dogtooth State Teachers College johnnies be any different?
Forget all that stuff we were saying about knives and gunfights and enemies and hanging Joe Lieberman in effigy, killing Henry Hyde, etc.; that was just our typical, high-spirited use of metaphor. Putting aside all the smashed plate-glass windows, the “Days of Rage,” and the photoshopped pictures of %$#@BUSH#$@! as the love child of Dracula and Hitler; we’re just a bunch of pot-smoking, fun-loving pacifist draft-dodgers at heart. This violence thing — we don’t really mean it, and you know it.
You, on the other hand, could be sitting on the sofa in your living room in your jammies, watching Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm with your dozens of dogs and children, slurping a Shave Ice and snuggling with the old ball and chain you’ve been irrationally tethered to for the past 20 years, and we would know — we would just know — that under the cushions you’ve got an AK-Uzi with 47 rounds in it, locked and loaded and on full automatic, or whatever, and you’re just itching to use it on us or one of our protected minority groups, all of whom you loathe because, after all, you are nothing if not haters.
Which is why I’m beaming. Because we lovers finally stood up to you swaggering bullies, who dominate every conversation even if there’s only one of you in the room against a dozen of us. We unleashed “The End Is Near” Krugman, foam-flecked Chris Matthews, dyspeptic Bill Maher, and every other arrow in our quiver to pin you against the wall, fill you full of lead, eviscerate you, decapitate you, burn your houses to the ground, rape your women, loot your treasure, and send your children into slavery. Like Sherman marching through Georgia, we sent our caissons rolling along, brought down the hammer and targeted you for —
Whoops! Got carried away with my martial metaphors there!
Anyway, it doesn’t really matter if the Tucson shooter was a garden-variety nut, allegedly apolitical (no one in our world is apolitical), fueled by anger against Representative Giffords, women, English grammar, the gold standard, and the educational system. He had a Glock, and that’s all the proof we need.
Come on, admit it: In your hearts, you know he’s Right.
I'm not saying or implying the speech had some kind of divine inspiration, flawed people such as you and I wrote the damn thing ....apparently the point of what I was trying to convey wasn't made clear enough. Yeah, THE END.
It's a time-worn liberal tactic.
http://www.slate.com/id/2073324/
Paul Wellstone's memorial service turns into a pep rally.
By William Saletan
Posted Wednesday, Oct. 30, 2002, at 2:23 AM ET
The basketball arena at the University of Minnesota holds 20,000 people. Tonight it's jam-packed. Not for the Gophers, whose Big 10 championship banners hang from the rafters, but for Paul Wellstone, the liberal senator who died Friday in a plane crash while campaigning for re-election. A pantheon of Democrats—Bill Clinton, Al Gore, Tom Daschle, Ted Kennedy, Joe Lieberman, John Kerry—has come to pay its respects.
T
onight's event is officially a memorial service. The lighting inside the arena is eerily appropriate: The big incandescent bulbs on the arced ceiling have been turned off, leaving the upper decks in darkness while the dais below is illuminated by stage lights suspended above the court. The contrast creates the impression of a vast ghostly assembly. It's as though the dead have come to honor the living, when in truth the living have come to honor the dead.
As fans of Garrison Keillor know, Minnesotans are wonderful storytellers. The most delightful treat at the ceremony is the anecdotes told by friends and family members of aides who perished aboard Wellstone's plane. The humor in these tales is gentle and wise; the delivery is a modest Scandinavian deadpan. It begins with remarks by a brother of Wellstone's young driver. As the story goes, Wellstone had told his driver to pull up alongside cars that sported Wellstone stickers, so the senator could wave at the occupants. Wellstone kept wondering why the occupants never waved back. Finally, the driver broke down and informed Wellstone that nobody could see him because the car's windows were tinted.
A favorite staple of Lake Wobegon comedy is the reinterpretation of foibles as virtues. The driver's brother explains that Wellstone and the driver got along well because both of them hated being told what to do. Another speaker recalls that a professor who died on the senator's plane was always imposing on friends in order to help others. A Wellstone aide who was close to the senator's wife points out that her competitiveness was overlooked and underappreciated. As a folk singer puts it during a musical interlude, "It's the imperfections that make us whole."
But the solemnity of death and the grace of Midwestern humor are overshadowed tonight by the angry piety of populism. Most of the event feels like a rally. The touching recollections are followed by sharply political speeches urging Wellstone's supporters to channel their grief into electoral victory. The crowd repeatedly stands, stomps, and whoops. The roars escalate each time Walter Mondale, the former vice president who will replace Wellstone on the ballot, appears on the giant screens suspended above the stage. "Fritz! Fritz!" the assembly chants.
"Politics is not about winning for the sake of winning," Wellstone declares in a videotaped speech shown on the overhead screens. "Politics is about improving people's lives." But as the evening's speakers proceed, it becomes clear that to them, honoring Wellstone's legacy is all about winning the election. Repeating the words of Wellstone's son, the assembly shouts, "We will win! We will win!" Rick Kahn, a friend of Wellstone's, urges everyone to "set aside the partisan bickering," but in the next breath he challenges several Republican senators in attendance to "honor your friend" by helping to "win this election for Paul Wellstone." What can he be thinking?
There's a salutary practicality about many of the liberal clichés repeated and applauded tonight. But there's a creepy arrogance about them, too. The ceremony's closing speaker, Democratic Sen. Tom Harkin of Iowa, says Wellstone "never took himself too seriously" and "never had to proclaim his decency." Yet tonight, the men and women who purport to represent Wellstone's legacy are taking themselves quite seriously and constantly proclaiming their decency. "We can redeem the sacrifice of his life if you help us win this election for Paul Wellstone," Kahn tells the crowd. Somewhere, Wellstone must be turning on his cross.
Above the stage hangs an immense cubic scoreboard. During basketball games, it's electrified and illuminated from above. Tonight it looms just above the stage lights, blank and unlit. A man has died. This is no time to keep score.
silentreader
01-14-2011, 12:44
Dusty,
Does your article prove that turning tragedies into political events is a Democratic strategy, or does it prove that claiming Dems do this is a conservative strategy? I suspect it's something of a Rorschach test: the viewer will see what he wants to.
It would be instructive to examine a few of the differences between the Wellstone celebration and Obama's speech. The Wellstone celebration (I use that word because that is what it was billed as) was a 3 and 1/2 hour long event attended by 20,000+ people. Though celebrities had offered to speak, all were turned down: speakers were limited to close family, friends and colleagues of Paul. There was no over-arching theme or plan, these were emotional people sharing their memories of Paul's life and celebrating the time they had with him. Because Paul was a politician, his life story was closely tied to politics. Most speakers tried to avoid drawing partisan lines. Rick Kahn, clearly, crossed that line. However, Kahn was not some political operative; he was Paul's best friend. The point to be clear on is that Kahn was far closer to Wellstone than any who claimed to be offended by what he said after the fact. He was further removed from politics then those who tried to use his words to cast the entire rally as a political sham. And finally, did the author of your article have a better suggestion for how to light a hockey arena when it's being used for memorial services?
Compare this to Obama's speech. He is the President of the United States addressing the nation after an event that clearly has collectively shocked us. He carefully avoided, in fact- warned against- finger pointing. He mourned those who died and expressed a desire to live up a little girls standards (touching or trite? rorschach strikes again).
Yet these two dramatically different events have been subject to almost the exact same critique from conservatives. They're exploiting a tragedy, they're dishonoring the dead, they're two-faced liars, etc...
Eulogies are never easy and when politicians speak (or are spoken about) there will always be some political theme. So there is, no doubt, some truth in these critiques. However, is it that hard to look at them uncritically? To assume that Obama meant exactly what he said? That Democrats are just as hurt as Republicans by tragedies like this, and are honestly grasping for lessons to be learned as opposed to political advantage?
Just some food for thought, I certainly don't claim to know anything about other people's motives for sure.
.......It would be instructive to examine a few of the differences between the Wellstone celebration and Obama's speech. ....
You compare the event to the speech. Did anyone speak before or after Obama's speech? What did they have to say?
Dusty,
Does your article prove that turning tragedies into political events is a Democratic strategy, or does it prove that claiming Dems do this is a conservative strategy? I suspect it's something of a Rorschach test: the viewer will see what he wants to.
It would be instructive to examine a few of the differences between the Wellstone celebration and Obama's speech. The Wellstone celebration (I use that word because that is what it was billed as) was a 3 and 1/2 hour long event attended by 20,000+ people. Though celebrities had offered to speak, all were turned down: speakers were limited to close family, friends and colleagues of Paul. There was no over-arching theme or plan, these were emotional people sharing their memories of Paul's life and celebrating the time they had with him. Because Paul was a politician, his life story was closely tied to politics. Most speakers tried to avoid drawing partisan lines. Rick Kahn, clearly, crossed that line. However, Kahn was not some political operative; he was Paul's best friend. The point to be clear on is that Kahn was far closer to Wellstone than any who claimed to be offended by what he said after the fact. He was further removed from politics then those who tried to use his words to cast the entire rally as a political sham. And finally, did the author of your article have a better suggestion for how to light a hockey arena when it's being used for memorial services?
Compare this to Obama's speech. He is the President of the United States addressing the nation after an event that clearly has collectively shocked us. He carefully avoided, in fact- warned against- finger pointing. He mourned those who died and expressed a desire to live up a little girls standards (touching or trite? rorschach strikes again).
Yet these two dramatically different events have been subject to almost the exact same critique from conservatives. They're exploiting a tragedy, they're dishonoring the dead, they're two-faced liars, etc...
Eulogies are never easy and when politicians speak (or are spoken about) there will always be some political theme. So there is, no doubt, some truth in these critiques. However, is it that hard to look at them uncritically? To assume that Obama meant exactly what he said? That Democrats are just as hurt as Republicans by tragedies like this, and are honestly grasping for lessons to be learned as opposed to political advantage?
Just some food for thought, I certainly don't claim to know anything about other people's motives for sure.
Obama disparages finger-pointing whenever he's not the one doing it.
You evidently keep track of the man, and should know that fact for yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1hRJqt5W-g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yorcY31cF6k&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtVldtqBGAE&feature=related
I'll throw in one where he admits he's Muslim:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMUgNg7aD8M&feature=related
There are many more...
It’s this type of distorted thought and influence that is likely the reason the situation arose in the first place.....statements like that can’t go uncontested.
Hmmmm. Just a small little civilian here, but reading the words of wisdom written by QP's on this subject matter, is like breathing fresh air after listenening to the kool-aid spewing media. It gives back a sense of normalcy to the world for some of us.
Did we know the perp? No? Then may I ask how the Fu*k any of us would know the "influence that brought the situation in the first place?":munchin
Holly
silentreader
01-14-2011, 14:20
You compare the event to the speech. Did anyone speak before or after Obama's speech? What did they have to say?
Good question. Not really an answer, but here's an article about the atmosphere (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110113/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot_rally). All emphasis is mine.
TUCSON, Ariz. – What was billed as a memorial for victims of the Arizona shooting rampage turned into a rollicking rally, leaving some conservative commentators wondering whether President Barack Obama's speech was a scripted political event. Not so, insisted the White House and host University of Arizona.
Obama spokesman Robert Gibbs said Thursday he and other aides didn't expect the president's remarks at the school's basketball arena to receive as much rousing applause as it did. Gibbs said the crowd's response, at times cheering and shouting, was understandable.
"I think part of the grieving process is celebrating the lives of those that were lost, and celebrating the miracles of those that survived," he said.
The university said it did the planning with minimal input from the White House. The school paid for the event, including $60,000 for 10,000 T-shirts bearing the words "Together We Thrive." The shirts were handed out for free. T-shirts. The money will not come student tuition, fees or tax dollars.
Well before Obama arrived, the atmosphere had become celebratory. People lined up for hours, and when the doors finally opened about two hours before the start, a huge cheer went up and the crowd surged into the arena.
With the exception of elected officials, victims and their families, first responders and medical professionals, the capacity crowd of about 14,000 was admitted on a first-come, first-served basis Wednesday, university spokeswoman Jennifer Fitzenberger said.
But the choreographed nature of the event was too much for some.
"Can't the Democrat political stage managers give it a break just once?," conservative commentator Michelle Malkin wrote in a column on her website, then questioned the lack of White House interaction with the university.
"Given the Obama White House's meticulous attention to stage prop details, however, I would say the odds of involvement by Axelrod/Plouffe & Co. are high." (Me: Considering "university officials" claim otherwise, it would be nice to see some proof for that claim)
David Plouffe is a presidential adviser who was the architect of Obama's presidential campaign; David Axelrod has been his political strategist and just left the White House to advise the Obama's re-election campaign.
Rich Lowry of the National Review wrote that "the pep-rally atmosphere was inappropriate and disconcerting," although he admired the president's speech.
To observers, the crowed was spontaneous.
They cheered when the two trauma surgeons who treated Rep. Gabrielle Giffords entered and were shown on the overhead screen. As the camera would focus on other individuals thrust into the spotlight after the shooting, the crowd would go wild, whether it was the first responders, the woman who grabbed the alleged gunman's ammunition, the intern who helped Giffords. In some cases, the person would wave to the camera.
Despite the celebrations in the rafters, the mood below where the families of the victims, the president and other officials sat was far more somber.
Obama frequently bowed his head, resting his chin on his clasped hands. First lady Michelle Obama wiped tears from her eyes. Families of the victims held each other close as speakers shared personal memories of their loved ones. Me: That seems to answer the question, yes?
The president himself appeared taken aback at the sustained applause he received after his remarks. (Me: It would appear the president and Mr. Lowry would agree that the reaction of the audience did not fit the mood. Emotions are often difficult to predict or control.) He waved quickly to the crowd as he left the stage, stood with his head down as the crowd continued to cheer, then reached for his wife, and kissed her several times on the cheek.
Silentreader--
I think your well-written post might have longer legs had you gone with an apples to apples comparison of presidential speeches commemorating shocking and tragic events. If you're interested, a resource that you might use is the presidential documents archive (http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/index_docs.php) of UCSB's the American Presidency Project (http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/index.php).[The forty fourth president] disparages finger-pointing whenever he's not the one doing it.Agreed. IMO, that inconsistency adds to the ongoing polarization of today's political climate.
silentreader
01-14-2011, 14:51
Silentreader--
I think your well-written post might have longer legs had you gone with an apples to apples comparison of presidential speeches commemorating shocking and tragic events. If you're interested, a resource that you might use is the presidential documents archive (http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/index_docs.php) of UCSB's the American Presidency Project (http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/index.php).
Sigaba,
Thank you for the input. It is actually not my intent to become a defender of President Obama (especially on this site!) but I have used the archive you link to in the past, and it is a very useful source.
I guess the point I was making gets back to the Rorschach test. People who don't trust Obama and view him as a political opportunist were almost guaranteed to find serious flaws with the way he approached the event. I used the Wellstone event as an example of this because it had already been mentioned, but one could say the same thing about president Bush; at some point, a group of liberals were going to be disgusted no matter what he said. He could have said, "the sun is bright today" and people would have found fault with it.
I guess I'm one of the rare few who liked both Bush and Obama. I certainly do not agree with everything either has said or done, but I think that both men have tried to do what they believe is the best for their country in an impossibly difficult job.
I guess the point I was making gets back to the Rorschach test. People who don't trust [the president] and view him as a political opportunist were almost guaranteed to find serious flaws with the way he approached the event.While I agree that there is a damned if he does, damned if he doesn't component to criticisms of modern presidents, I don't think that component should over-ride the fact that this president is not living up to his own words.I guess I'm one of the rare few who liked both Bush and [the current president]. I certainly do not agree with everything either has said or done, but I think that both men have tried to do what they believe is the best for their country in an impossibly difficult job.I am of the growing belief that the current president is incapable even of doing what is in his own political self interest, much less the best interests of this country.
YMMV.
I am of the growing belief that the current president is incapable even of doing what is in his own political self interest, much less the best interests of this country.
YMMV.
Roger that.
In his defense, he's not doing too bad for someone who has literally zero experience other than small-scale political agitation learned from two domestic terrorists.
Peregrino
01-14-2011, 19:00
Dusty - Pay up! Inappropriate use of the "sarcasm font".
Dusty - Pay up! Inappropriate use of the "sarcasm font".
My bad.
I guess the point I was making gets back to the Rorschach test. People who don't trust Obama and view him as a political opportunist were almost guaranteed to find serious flaws with the way he approached the event. I used the Wellstone event as an example of this because it had already been mentioned, but one could say the same thing about president Bush; at some point, a group of liberals were going to be disgusted no matter what he said. He could have said, "the sun is bright today" and people would have found fault with it.
.
Great point. It will be interesting to see which side America takes during this next election. I've talked to several 'ultra' conservatives that couldn't think of a single positive thing the current president has done. Not a single thing in 2 years. It doesn't get much more polarized than that.
Dusty - Pay up! Inappropriate use of the "sarcasm font".
The radio station playing through my tin foil cap told me that the current President is a closet domestic terrorist, closet muslim, and closet socialist that couldn't care less about the victims of the Tucson shooting, and that he is regularly beaten by his wife, who happens to be a living breathing Vulcan from the star trek universe. Nope, no pink font here... :D
The radio station playing through my tin foil cap told me that the current President is a closet domestic terrorist, closet muslim, and closet socialist that couldn't care less about the victims of the Tucson shooting, and that he is regularly beaten by his wife, who happens to be a living breathing Vulcan from the star trek universe. Nope, no pink font here... :D
I see you've been studying. Good work, trvlr.
....and that he is regularly beaten by his wife,...
you forgot to mention the 12 stitches after a ball game.
you forgot to mention the 12 stitches after a ball game.
Thank you, WD. I've been racking my brain trying to come up with something positive Obama has done in the last two years. I knew there had to be something.
you forgot to mention the 12 stitches after a ball game.
...one for each Tribe of Israel...:D
...one for each Tribe of Israel...:D
lol:D:D:D
...one for each Tribe of Israel...:D
You mean the TEN lost tribes? "Joseph and Judua" clearing in the open, not much missing there. The ten tribes moved north, maybe Sweden, Germany, Iceland, Norway, Russia - sure like to learn the mystery, some day maybe. I think the Vikings came from outer space, landed, big helmets with horns, saying "What's Up?,... Word", (bling, bling - bang, bang!)".
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=13&articleid=20110116_13_0_BSOhah133189
Wow. What an incrediblr gesture on behalf of her parents......
[B]Young Arizona victim's dad: Boston girl received organs[/B
]By AP Wire Service
Published: 1/16/2011 8:45 AM
Last Modified: 1/16/2011 8:45 AM
BOSTON — The father of the youngest victim of the Arizona massacre says some of her organs have been donated to a young girl in the Boston area.
John Green tells The Boston Globe in Sunday's edition that he received a phone call about the transplant, but says he doesn't know any other details about the donation.
He says the call "really lifted" his spirit and says he and his wife are proud parents once again of their daughter, "who has done another amazing thing."
Nine-year-old Christina Taylor Green was born Sept. 11, 2001.
She had just been elected to her Tucson school's
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=13&articleid=20110116_13_0_BSOhah133189
Wow. What an incredible gesture on behalf of her parents......
Young Arizona victim's dad: Boston girl received organs
By AP Wire Service
Published: 1/16/2011 8:45 AM
Last Modified: 1/16/2011 8:45 AM
BOSTON — The father of the youngest victim of the Arizona massacre says some of her organs have been donated to a young girl in the Boston area.
John Green tells The Boston Globe in Sunday's edition that he received a phone call about the transplant, but says he doesn't know any other details about the donation.
He says the call "really lifted" his spirit and says he and his wife are proud parents once again of their daughter, "who has done another amazing thing."
Nine-year-old Christina Taylor Green was born Sept. 11, 2001.
She had just been elected to her Tucson school's
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/12/republicans-seek-bury-regulation-political-speech-airwaves/