View Full Version : Vibram Five Fingers allowed in SFAS?
Hello Gents,
Since being stationed at Fort Carson I have become a member of the VFF cult in the area. And, since buying these shoes I have fallen in love with them and what they have done for me. I am trying to translate the new running style into regular shoes to conform to my CO's standards on "conservative footwear" but am having a devil of a time.
So, on to the reason for my post. I will be starting a very intense training program in the next week or so for my pre-selection train up. And, back to the shoes, 75% of my training will be done in those shoes (the other 25% will be in boots). So, I wanted to find out if I should rotate regular shoes into my training or if anyone knew if these shoes would be allowed for use in selection. Now I understand that I'm not going to SFAS until May, so things may change before then. But if anyone on here was cadre at the schoolhouse or had heard some musings in the halls about the shoes I would grateful for the knowledge. Thank you for your time.
Chris
http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/pdf/r670_1.pdf
Quoted from AR 670-1
"14–3. Accessories
a. Commanders may authorize the wear of commercial running shoes, calf-length or ankle-length, plain white socks with no logos, gloves, reflective belts or vests, long underwear, and other items appropriate to the weather conditions and type of activity. If soldiers wear long underwear or other similar items, they must conceal them from view with the hooded sweatshirt and sweat pants when wearing the PFU, or the running jacket and pants if wearing the IPFU"
I understand what AR 670-1 says, but I have read several stories of soldiers being told by their commands(myself included) that these shoes are not practical and are not running shoes. Or they go back to the coverall that they are "not conservative enough for use with the Army uniform". So should I call ahead and ask the commander of SFAS myself? Doubt it. Which is why I was hoping someone on here had encountered this previously. Thank you. Also, please do not take my comments as snarky, I should've put my understanding of the regs in my first post.
Point taken. They seem faddish. In other threads, QP's have reccommended that one should wear the issue combat boots during SFAS. I'm sure the same ideology would apply to running shoes.
NoRoadtrippin
01-03-2011, 23:08
Point taken. They seem faddish. In other threads, QP's have reccommended that one should wear the issue combat boots during SFAS. I'm sure the same ideology would apply to running shoes.
Just a "heads up," you should be leaving Q's in the "Special Forces Questions" section to the people who have BTDT. It's posted as a rule in the Stickies. Better duck 'n' cover before the TS shows up! :munchin
I would like to add a peice of advice for you from a guy whos BTDT. I will preface by saying I am now a big VFF fan for running. I ran a 1/2 marathon, and 10K in mine this fall and even placed well in both! However, from what I recall of SFAS, I would not want to have worn my VFF at any point regardless of the regulation. I brought a bad pair of running shoes and socks and paid dearly for it. My next investment was good running shoes (Salomons) and socks that were geared more toward trail running. I have used my VFF for trail running, but that was as a slow pace, and I really didn't gain anything from it but sore feet in the end. The type of running I recall from SFAS was far closer to trail running than road running (where I have found the VFFs pay off for me).
I do think that the VFF would help someone condition thier feet quicker mixed with rucking in the boots you plan on taking. I would set myself up for sucess in anyway possible and that includes training for the worst, and planning to make it as easy as possible whenever you can!
Hope that helps some!
Surgicalcric
01-04-2011, 05:26
...So, on to the reason for my post. I will be starting a very intense training program in the next week or so for my pre-selection train up. And, back to the shoes, 75% of my training will be done in those shoes (the other 25% will be in boots). So, I wanted to find out if I should rotate regular shoes into my training or if anyone knew if these shoes would be allowed for use in selection. Now I understand that I'm not going to SFAS until May, so things may change before then. But if anyone on here was cadre at the schoolhouse or had heard some musings in the halls about the shoes I would grateful for the knowledge. Thank you for your time.
Chris
First, VFF's are not acceptable footwear for SFAS.
Secondly, no less than 50% of your training should be spent under a ruck and in BOOTS not VFFs.
VFFs arent a one shoe fits all solution, different tools for different situations.
Hope this settles that.
Crip
The Reaper
01-04-2011, 07:34
Hello Gents,
Since being stationed at Fort Carson I have become a member of the VFF cult in the area. And, since buying these shoes I have fallen in love with them and what they have done for me. I am trying to translate the new running style into regular shoes to conform to my CO's standards on "conservative footwear" but am having a devil of a time.
So, on to the reason for my post. I will be starting a very intense training program in the next week or so for my pre-selection train up. And, back to the shoes, 75% of my training will be done in those shoes (the other 25% will be in boots). So, I wanted to find out if I should rotate regular shoes into my training or if anyone knew if these shoes would be allowed for use in selection. Now I understand that I'm not going to SFAS until May, so things may change before then. But if anyone on here was cadre at the schoolhouse or had heard some musings in the halls about the shoes I would grateful for the knowledge. Thank you for your time.
Chris
Have you read the packing list for SFAS?
TR
longrange1947
01-04-2011, 11:09
Have you read the packing list for SFAS?
TR
Thank you TR. :munchin :D
perdurabo
01-04-2011, 11:14
I'm not a QP and know about as much about SFAS as anyone else who reads these forums and has seen "Two Weeks In Hell".
But, I know a lot about VFFs (especially my KSOs). I run on trail and off trail in them. They're not really suitable for anything beyond recreational trail running (yes, even at ultra distances).
Once you start having to worry about certain types of mud, wet wood, rocks and tree roots, they're going to hurt you, not help. I'm going to assume the cadre aren't going to let you take a breather and swap out footgear as necessary.
They offer virtually no toe protection (I cracked my big toe snagging it under a submerged tree root in a mud pit during a race). They aren't particularly durable, I have numerous duct tape wraps in areas where rock met fabric.
Don't get me wrong, VFFs are great. I like running with my feet in close contact to the ground, but they're not the be all, end all.
Don't gamble your SFAS chances by trying to be special, just use (un)conventional wisdom.
Maybe chilpyl will have better luck at BAC with his VFFs .
JoelBlack
01-04-2011, 17:37
Maybe chilpyl will have better luck at BAC with his VFFs .
VFF were being used when I went through BAC. I remember Recon guys using them especially. To bad they do not help in pushups.:p
First, VFF's are not acceptable footwear for SFAS.
Crip
Thank you, Crip. Exactly the answer I was looking for.
Have you read the packing list for SFAS?
TR
I hadn't thought to until you mentioned it. And, upon looking it only states running shoes. Although, I may be looking at an older edition. It was the most up to date one I could find with google-fu.
I would like to add a peice of advice for you from a guy whos BTDT. I will preface by saying I am now a big VFF fan for running. I ran a 1/2 marathon, and 10K in mine this fall and even placed well in both! However, from what I recall of SFAS, I would not want to have worn my VFF at any point regardless of the regulation. I brought a bad pair of running shoes and socks and paid dearly for it. My next investment was good running shoes (Salomons) and socks that were geared more toward trail running. I have used my VFF for trail running, but that was as a slow pace, and I really didn't gain anything from it but sore feet in the end. The type of running I recall from SFAS was far closer to trail running than road running (where I have found the VFFs pay off for me).
Thank you for your insight. That helps me out immensely.
Just a thought but don't worry about minor things like "Can I wear... insert favorite item". I have told several people on here and I stick to it since it worked for me; buy Get Selected, read it front to back, digest it, and do the planned workout found in the book. Hell, do it twice. Get your paperwork in order, pack according to the packing list. I would say no more, no less but more socks and boots is always smart. Then get your personal life in order so you have no distractions and go beat the hell out of SFAS. Worrying about minor issues will only distract from the ultimate goal and hurt you in the long run.
Thank you, Crip. Exactly the answer I was looking for.
I hadn't thought to until you mentioned it. And, upon looking it only states running shoes. Although, I may be looking at an older edition. It was the most up to date one I could find with google-fu.
Thank you for your insight. That helps me out immensely.
So what part about running shoes don't you understand as per AR 670-1?
What makes you think that you can wear a piece of equipment that is not authorized in the Regular Army at SFAS? Look Stud, as a SPC these are things that you should be able to figure out on your own. You should take heed to the advice already given, and move out smartly.
CH
GrumpyMedic
01-08-2011, 20:26
I normally don't post because there are too many guys on here who can and do say it better but here's my thought.
THE NAIL THAT STANDS UP GETS HAMMERED!
SF (hell being a soldier for that matter) is about conformity and teamwork. I may not like one of my brothers but if he's suffering my happy @ss is going to be right there with him. Period.
MTN Medic
01-08-2011, 21:13
I normally don't post because there are too many guys on here who can and do say it better but here's my thought.
THE NAIL THAT STANDS UP GETS HAMMERED!
SF (hell being a soldier for that matter) is about conformity and teamwork. I may not like one of my brothers but if he's suffering my happy @ss is going to be right there with him. Period.
Well, I don't think anyone could have said it better tonight.
Stop worrying about the gear you will take and start preparing for the real challenges that await you.
I agree with the rest of the guys, you will need to run in sneakers for the PT test so you might as well train in them. It's been a while since SFAS, but I remember throwing away 6 pair of winter wool socks (the big fuzzy white ones), after admitting they were not unit issued. I still have strong feelings about a particular cadre who made me throw $35 of socks in the dumpster (FFI). I would hate for you to show up to SFAS and be told you have to run in your sneaks.
I also like the five finger concept, but I think too many people have read books like "Born to Run" or going with the fad. Yes the human foot was designed over thousands of years to function "o-natural", but you must remember your foot has been walking on soles with elevated heels for your lifetime. Run five miles in sneakers and then the next week run five miles in VFF. See which is faster. Unless you have been into the barefoot running scene for a few YEARS you will be slower.
greenberetTFS
01-09-2011, 06:10
Thank you TR. :munchin :D
I'm kinda puzzled here,I thought SF questions were supposed to be answered by QP's only!...............:confused:
Big Teddy :munchin
Special Forces Questions
This is a forum where civilians can "ask" the Special Forces soldiers past and present "Special Forces" related questions.
Those questions are then answered by Special Forces soldiers, period.
Questions asked by the general public should NOT be answered by the "general" public.
If you do not have the title of "Quiet Professional" you may ask a question, but leave the "answers" to the QP's.
Team Sergeant
"Speed, Surprise & Violence of Action"
Hello Gents,
Since being stationed at Fort Carson I have become a member of the VFF cult in the area.
Chris
Somebody reprogram this soldier before he hits NC.
Leozinho
01-09-2011, 08:24
You might try the New Balance 101. Minimalist trail running shoes that don't look that much different from other trail running shoes.
http://www.runningwarehouse.com/descpageMRS-NB101GH.html
I just ordered a pair myself. I'm not a barefoot runner but I figured I'd see what all the hype is about and give it a go. (Previously I've gone the opposite route and had the running store employee video my footfall to see what shoe 'corrects' it.)
Google to find discount codes for 15% off at Running Warehouse. Brought the price down to $56 shipped. (with free return shipping if they don't fit.)
Caveat Emptor -- I don't know if they'd be allowed at SFAS. There used to be a "no black running shoes" rule that might come into effect. But you will get less scrutiny from the 1SG at your present company than you would with VFFs.
GhostRSA
06-18-2011, 06:42
If you have a look at this photograph (apart from the insane dog) you can see that the soldier who is part of 10th Special Forces Group is wearing five fingers. At first I thought he just had really dirty feet but if you look at his left heel you can clearly see the Vibram Five Fingers!
http://www.defense.gov/dodcmsshare/newsphoto/2011-03/hires_110301-F-RR679-717.jpg
GhostRSA
If you have a look at this photograph (apart from the insane dog) you can see that the soldier who is part of 10th Special Forces Group is wearing five fingers. At first I thought he just had really dirty feet but if you look at his left heel you can clearly see the Vibram Five Fingers!
http://www.defense.gov/dodcmsshare/newsphoto/2011-03/hires_110301-F-RR679-717.jpg
GhostRSA
And that photo has what to do with SFAS?
And that photo has what to do with SFAS?
Or better yet,, much to do with jumping in the water and putting on flippers!!!
Go do 200 flutter kicks...
longrange1947
06-18-2011, 09:43
I'm kinda puzzled here,I thought SF questions were supposed to be answered by QP's only!...............:confused:
Big Teddy :munchin
Special Forces Questions
This is a forum where civilians can "ask" the Special Forces soldiers past and present "Special Forces" related questions.
Those questions are then answered by Special Forces soldiers, period.
Questions asked by the general public should NOT be answered by the "general" public.
If you do not have the title of "Quiet Professional" you may ask a question, but leave the "answers" to the QP's.
Team Sergeant
"Speed, Surprise & Violence of Action"
Teddy, just saw this post and wondered why you quoted me and then admonished QPs only?????
Dozer523
06-18-2011, 10:08
This is like dealin' with my kids. [url]http://armypubs
Just a "heads up," you should be leaving Q's in the "Special Forces Questions" section to okay, THIS one's funny.
I'm not a QP . . . . Then according to the rules of THIS (SF?) forum everything should have gone via PM.
VFF were being used when I . . . I remember . . . To bad . . . Ditto.
As you can see. . . If you have a look . . . Stop. Read that stickie.
Didn't I say Don't do that? why are you still doing that?
Sonic03svtCobra
06-24-2011, 17:41
Hey when you earn a tab, and decided to do a Helo cast with a man eating K9 you can wear five fingers. till then follow the packing list.
I have often prayed that this thread would either go away, or end up in the comedy zone. Now I look forward to when it surfaces and comments about Five Fingers only results in a slap down by a QP to someone who can not read or follow instructions.
Long before Five Fingers, soldiers wore Teva's on deployment. Not just a splash at 8 ft AGL with a dog that obviously was tossed, (ok, maybe he jumped), and a soldiers who was only going out the door with a BC and sun screen.
Bet there was beer, hot dogs, wives, kids and family waiting at the beech.
So all the new guys waiting to start SFAS, wear whatever you want, please.
Tell the SFAS committee Cadre that "Wet Dog said it was ok!"
Trust me, you'll be fine.
Sonic03svtCobra
06-24-2011, 22:32
I didn`t get beer or hotdogs, only a pulled pork sandwich. :D and yes I tossed him, wish that picture never got released.
I didn`t get beer or hotdogs, only a pulled pork sandwich. :D and yes I tossed him, wish that picture never got released.
Too funny, all that is important is, did you have fun?
greenberetTFS
06-25-2011, 05:48
Teddy, just saw this post and wondered why you quoted me and then admonished QPs only?????
I screwed up,really wasn't admonishing you or the OP's......... Just trying to get across that Non-OP's ask all the questions they may have,just allow the QP's to be the only ones to provide the answers...........My apologies if it didn't come out that way............:o
Big Teddy :munchin
1st CAV was pretty fast about pushing the new ALARACT around to everyone on BAF. ALARACT 239/2011 pretty much prohibits the wear of VFFs with the IPFU or when conducting PT in military formation.
1st CAV was pretty fast about pushing the new ALARACT around to everyone on BAF. ALARACT 239/2011 pretty much prohibits the wear of VFFs with the IPFU or when conducting PT in military formation.
You gotta be kidding me...
Please read the thread, or even the post above yours.
I would recommend to the VFF crowd to look at some of the other options out there for minimalist running shoes, such as the Merril Trail Glove which is what I use. They look like low cut shoes, you can wear socks if you need to, and don't look gay as AIDS (ref: helocast photo :D). They have zero heel lift and a wide toe box so it feels like barefoot running, but won't piss off your commanders. As to selection, just buy a pair of frickin' sneakers and get selected, no one cares if you're part of a barefoot cult or whatever.
You gotta be kidding me...
Please read the thread, or even the post above yours.
Meh.
It was a non-issue to begin with, just adding to it. If big Army feels the dire need to explicitly ban the shoes while in PTs via an ALARACT no less, whatever. I have a pair of the KSO Treks and they are really good shoes for trail running. I'll just end up using them while in civies.
Surgicalcric
06-25-2011, 09:02
Meh.
It was a non-issue to begin with, just adding to it...
The only thing you added is your name to the list of people who cannot follow simple instructions.
1st of all, this thread is about VFF's at SFAS, not how they are received at 1st Cav. We couldn't care less how they are received by big Army.
Next, you need to read the rules a bit more closely.
This is a forum where civilians can "ask" the Special Forces soldiers past and present "Special Forces" related questions.
Those questions are then answered by Special Forces soldiers, period.
Questions asked by the general public should NOT be answered by the "general" public.
If you do not have the title of "Quiet Professional" you may ask a question, but leave the "answers" to the QP's.
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=259158&postcount=1
Crip
Eagle5US
06-25-2011, 10:48
Meh.
It was a non-issue to begin with, just adding to it. If big Army feels the dire need to explicitly ban the shoes while in PTs via an ALARACT no less, whatever. I have a pair of the KSO Treks and they are really good shoes for trail running. I'll just end up using them while in civies.
Hey Dumbass...
How about we make you posting a "non-issue":munchin
Idiot...
Meh.
It was a non-issue to begin with, just adding to it.
I can lead you to water, but I can't make you drink... however, waterboarding is a bitch.
I can lead you to water, but I can't make you drink... however, waterboarding is a bitch.:D:D:D
I have been thinking about this thread and for my 2 cents it should be ended. But that is just me.....:munchin
Ambush Master
06-25-2011, 17:10
Thread CLOSED!!!
Maybe someone will learn about who should, and should NOT reply in here!!