View Full Version : wounded elk - what would you have done?
RichL025
12-31-2010, 16:39
Just wanted to ask if anyone had been in this situation before, I'm still not sure I did the right thing...
Coming home from a local ski mountain yesterday, there was a wounded elk in the road - this was still pretty far up a rural highway, several miles out from town still. It was obvious he had been hit by a car - there was some broken side-view mirror pieces on the road, and a minivan pulled off to one side a few yards down the road. The elk was trying to stand up but it was obvious it either had a spinal cord injury with paralysis of his rear legs, or both his rear legs were broken. The animal was crying in obvious pain.
My carry pistol was in the car - it is a 9mm loaded with 147 gr hollowpoints.
I mulled this over in my head for a few minutes whether I should put the poor animal "out of its misery." There was a steady stream of cars coming down off the mountain (and actually, traffic was a bit backed up because of the elk), so I elected not to take any action, for fear of "freaking out" anyone watching (liberal Seattlites). I called 911 (surprisingly I had reception there) and after being transferred a few times to different dispatchers, I was assured help was on its way. About 15 minutes later a State Trooper vehicle passed me with lights & sirens heading towards the scene.
It wasn't until after I had decided not to take action, where I began wondering whether my 147 gr hollowpoints would not have even done the job? My thoughts involved a coup-de-grace to the head, but I realized I have no idea how thick an elk's skull is. The absolute worst thing I could have done was to shoot the animal without killing it, simply adding to the agony of it's last minutes.
What do you guys think - did I act prudently because of all the people around, or did I allow the animal to suffer needlessly due to unfounded concerns about either hoplophobia or inadequacy of the ammo? (I assume the state trooper has a shotgun or carbine in his vehicle should he discover his sidearm fail... I of course did not).
What's done is done, but I'm curious to hear other opinions on what you would have done in the same setting.
Rich
Masochist
12-31-2010, 16:46
Rich,
I think the fact that you took both bystanders as well as the wounded elk into account, and cycled through multiple scenarios before coming to your decision shows you did the best you could in your given situation. I fortunately have never been in such a situation, and don't know the thickness of an elk's head (only of mine, at times).
BigJimCalhoun
12-31-2010, 17:02
Even though one is ethically acting in the best interests of the animal by dispaching it, I am pretty sure you would open yourself to possible criminal charges related to discharge of a fiream along with various other game-related offenses. In Colorado you could be charged with discharing a weapon within 50 feet of the road, shooting without a hunting license and some others. Many of these are felonies, unlike, for example, entering the US illegally or something else that is far worse.
I feel you did the right thing legally by not shooting it.
What do you guys think - did I act prudently because of all the people around...
Rich,
As you know those "people" up there are no longer the Washingtonians of yesterday: they are simply California transplants who brought their "Birkenstock" ideology with them. "Animals are more important than hardware." You read the situation and acted appropriately in my opinion.
A few years ago I found myself in a very similar situation minus the elk. My family and I were overseas (not Europe) driving our POV along a remote two-lane road when we were passed by a "crazy driver" in a SUV fully loaded with young kids & females (nobody was wearing seatbelts). We watched as the SUV continued to weave in and out of traffic as it made its way along the road. My wife even commented they would eventually cause an accident.
When we crested a blind hill, we saw the SUV overturned on the road: its passengers strewn everywhere and I could see a lot of visible trauma. A bus FULL of locals had arrived seconds before we did and its passengers were spilling out of the bus with the men trying to help and the women wailing.
I KNEW I needed to stop to attempt to triage and give first aid. I slowed and almost pulled over but then I realized:
1) I was an American in a foreign country in a marked diplomatic vehicle.
2) I was grossly outnumbered and my family was there.
3) The US was not on good terms with the locals.
I decided to floor the 4Runner and left the area. I had a few sleepless nights after that and had some bad dreams about those kids, some of who didn't look like they made it. I later justified my actions to myself that had I stayed and rendered aid, I could have been blamed for CAUSING the accident and then the crowed would have taken their anger out on my family.
Anyway, I think you did the right thing.
I would say you acted in your best interest, unfortunately all it takes is one 'do-gooder' calling the Law because they saw you with a firearm.....beating it death with a club or slitting it's throat....you can't do the right thing without the possibility of repercussions.
2018commo
12-31-2010, 17:50
Agree with the above comments, however another reason to carry a .45!
M1911 .45 ACP
IMO you did the right thing, seriously.
Your actions were sensible and logical.
I had a somewhat similar experience in high school in the Sierras. On a dark foggy night a friend, his mother, and I were driving home on windy mountain roads when we noticed a bunch of cattle had slipped a fence and were standing around on the road. None of knew anything about cattle, but we tried using our high beams and horn to light up the area and got out to to get them to move off before the inevitable. One kept coming back and was soon hit by a passing pickup, smashing into the cow's rear quarters. The truck driver was fine, the truck was smashed up, and the crippled cow ended up on the side of the road in great pain. No one was armed and this was pre cell phones, so other than calling it in at the nearest gas station there was little we could do for the poor animal. I didn't like leaving it that way.
Its not a right or wrong decision, but mearly a 'choice'.
You chose one opinion, it proved to be the correct one. Had the road been empty, (i.e., no other vehicles, etc.), then shoot, had the road been full, then a knife to the throat. If asked later, why did you use a knife, the answer would be, "too many bystanders to discharge a weapon safely".
Irregardless, I would've moved quickly to the car seeing if the family was ok, then back to the elk. A head shot in any caliber larger than a .22LR will dispatch any mammal living in north america. It might take 2,3 or 4 shells, but you get the point.
In Wyoming, you just shoot the animal, see if the family is ok, and ask if someone can help you lift the animal into the back of "your" truck.
Thank them. Inform the family you'll send a few pounds of elk meat, hope they get the mirror fixed.
Buffalobob
12-31-2010, 18:10
As was mentioned, firing a gun at an animal within 50 ft of the road is illegal. With no hunting license, killing an animal is illegal. Various and assorted bystanders and passersby and you do not have them under control. Highway patrolman was on the way to do what needed to be done. I have watched the Md Highway Patrol shoot car-hit wounded deer. They know what needs to be done. These kinds of laws have been on the books for decades. When I was hunting buffalo in the Henry Mountains in 1980 we chanced upon a cow that had been killed but not harvested. Called Utah wildlife and asked if we could cut off the head and take it and they said only if I tagged it, otherwise I would go to jail.
With any wounded animal out of season and without all of the correct licenses and permissions you are going to see a few fines and or a judge. Poachers will cook up a lot of stories and so the game laws are tightened down to avoid the cooked up stories.
9mm impacting the skull of an elk will kill it if you hit it square.
Shot or used my knife on the animal w/o thinking.
Stay safe.
Several years ago I drove up on a woman and her boyfriend standing over a wounded whitetail deer they had hit with their vehicle. The deer's back was broken. The woman was upset and asked me to do something, so I pulled out my knife (it was in a residential neighborhood) and was going to dispatch the animal. At this point she became hysterical, so I pocketed my knife and left without killing the wounded the deer.
In hindsight, I should have done the merciful thing and cut the deer's throat. Watching her meltdown would have been worth any potential repercussions.
Put a dim mak on it next time. ;)
Been in this situation a couple of times. Both times I put the animal down with my 45.
The latest REALLY pissed me off. I went to the trash dump to take our house trash and while walking to the dumpster I heard this whimper and turned around to find a medium sized dog stuffed into one of those bins you put in the bottom of your refrigerator. He had been run over and was totally paralyzed. He could only move his eyes. He whimpered as if to ask for my help. Poor thing looked like he had been there all night. He barely fit in the thing and his head was hanging over the side of it with his tongue hanging out one side of his mouth. There were several people standing around just BSing as well as the guy in the garbage truck who was emptying the large bins. I just walked over to my vehicle pissed as hell and came back and put him down. They of course asked what was going on and I explained what I was doing.
Some people shouldn't have pets!
Peregrino
12-31-2010, 20:29
Tough call. Personally, I think you read the situation correctly. I've had three deer experiences; one warranted a mercy shot. (It's called a "coup de gras" for a reason.) Cops involved all three times, always well after the fact. Thankfully most of NC is a lot more sensible than the Birkenstock crowd. And the NCHP is noted for exercising a decent quantity of common sense WRT putting an animal down; not so sure what would happen within a municiple jurisdiction though. (MPs on the other hand - certainly the ones working dispatch - have to have the lowest GT scores in the Army.) Sorry you have to question yourself for exercising good judgement.
I was 16 or 17, was driving my grandfathers old F-100 in Washington, he and I both had been trout fishing on the queets river, we both had the flue and I hit a elk cow at about 45 mph just north of Aberdeen. My grandfather cut its throat. He was a retired Sheriff and Prison Warden and said something about it being illegal for us to shoot it, just before he bled it out, and that it was our only option.
Driving back and forth from Pinebluff to FT Bragg over the years I hit one more and a woman in front of me hit a Whitetail and both times I just bled them since again it was my only option. I kept both of them though......jd
bost1751
12-31-2010, 22:20
Big Jim Calhoun was correct with minimal corrections as far as Colorado statutes go. There is so much poaching of elk DOW does not much of a sense of humor any more. Most western states are very similiar. Legally you did the right thing. To answer the other part of your question, yes the 9mm will do the job. I was a trooper in CO after I retired from SF and ran the mountains. I used the 9mm we used to carry on a lot of injured elk in northwest CO