View Full Version : Trying to find out what this is?
I caanot for the life of me figuring out what kind of cartridge this is. Need some help. What I do no about it is this.
1) It states that it is a "SuperX .357 Magnum" on the bottom of the cartridge as all are the same.
2) I own 6 rounds
3) The truncated bullet does not attract a magnet. Tour one open and it has a large chunk of lead below what we see here.
4) Could it still be an AP round for those bad guys wearing vests?
5) I was given these rounds in the mid-1980's for a trade with my partner. He got the box of .45 caliber "Black Talon" that were ++. I am beginnig to think he may have gotten the best deal out of this one?
MAB32
Mark
The Reaper
12-29-2010, 15:16
I caanot for the life of me figuring out what kind of cartridge this is. Need some help. What I do no about it is this.
1) It states that it is a "SuperX .357 Magnum" on the bottom of the cartridge as all are the same.
2) I own 6 rounds
3) The truncated bullet does not attract a magnet. Tour one open and it has a large chunk of lead below what we see here.
4) Could it still be an AP round for those bad guys wearing vests?
5) I was given these rounds in the mid-1980's for a trade with my partner. He got the box of .45 caliber "Black Talon" that were ++. I am beginnig to think he may have gotten the best deal out of this one?
MAB32
Mark
Looks like an AP round to me.
Bad to have without creds.
TR
Here is anothe shot of the .357 magnum:
TR,
Both us have the needed credentials as both us are now retired and have qualified in H.B.219 (federal guidlines for Coppers when we all retire).
TR, If it doesn't have any steel core to it you would still believe it is AP?
MAB32
Mark
Snaquebite
12-29-2010, 16:07
I believe it's a "metal piercing" round that was produced by Winchester beginning in the 60's. I believe it was used by some Highway Patrol in their model 27 and 28's.. I don't think it's been manufactured sincethe 80's.
Do markings look like this?
17485
Edit: I believe they were tungsten core and Western also made the round.
Google- Super X .357 Magnum "metal piercing"
you will find some discussions.
3) The truncated bullet does not attract a magnet. Tour one open and it has a large chunk of lead below what we see here.
Mark
Mark
Did you weight the projectile??
It looks similar to a round I remember as a multi-projectile. The round was a series of 2 or 3 stacked cones, shaped like the point.
It was sold as home protection (CQB), short range, low light, pull the trigger, close your eyes, call the LEO's,,, POS..
If it's the one I think it is,, it was three, 65-75 gr disks??
My $00.0002
The Reaper
12-29-2010, 17:33
I believe it's a "metal piercing" round that was produced by Winchester beginning in the 60's. I believe it was used by some Highway Patrol in their model 27 and 28's.. I don't think it's been manufactured sincethe 80's.
I agree with your assessment.
TR
http://www.gunsamerica.com/934546649/Non-Guns/Ammunition/METAL_PIERCING_FACTORY_WINCHESTER.htm
Snaquebite,
It looks exactly like that. I did try and pull a round which was performed without a bullet puller. It came out somewhat distorted. It seems the lead below the tip is like a very heavy lead, more-so than anything I have encountered till I found these rounds packed in my Sheriff's bag.
JJ_BPK,
Never could get the weight of that projectile. I am really trying to get into reloading but we are in a bind right now with hospital bills. I do not believe it to be one of those bullets that have the 2-4 projectiles that you mentioned.
TR,
Thanks again.
These rounds are like brand new in apperance. The red water-proofing material around the primer appears to me to be brand new.
Dusty,
That my friend is it! Thank you for showing that to me. I only had the rounds and no box.
Everybody else that helped me out on this one I give thanks for helping me out, I reall appreciate it.
MAB32
Mark
Mark
Gene Econ
12-30-2010, 07:52
Snaquebite,
It looks exactly like that. I did try and pull a round which was performed without a bullet puller. It came out somewhat distorted. It seems the lead below the tip is like a very heavy lead, more-so than anything I have encountered till I found these rounds packed in my Sheriff's bag.
JJ_BPK,
Never could get the weight of that projectile. I am really trying to get into reloading but we are in a bind right now with hospital bills. I do not believe it to be one of those bullets that have the 2-4 projectiles that you mentioned.
TR,
Thanks again.
These rounds are like brand new in apperance. The red water-proofing material around the primer appears to me to be brand new.
Dusty,
That my friend is it! Thank you for showing that to me. I only had the rounds and no box.
Everybody else that helped me out on this one I give thanks for helping me out, I reall appreciate it.
MAB32
Mark
Mark
Mark:
I have a box of that stuff that someone gave me about twenty years ago. They inherited it from a relative who had retired from LEA so it dates to the 60's.
The box is printed as stating 158 grain Metal Piercing. Look at it in context with bullet availability for the .357 in the 1960's. I believe most agencies used 158 soft points -- with or without hollow point-- so this FMJ design would market well although I am not sure it would penetrate any more metal than a 158 soft point.
I wouldn't read into the stuff. It is 60's technology and marketing. My bet is that the core is lead as the box I have doesn't state anything about the core and if it was some weird alloy, you better believe it would be printed on the box as that would be a serious marketing benefit.
Today you can find good truncated cone silhouette bullets (FMJ) that will penetrate as well as any other FMJ and be more accurate so the term 'Metal Piercing' really doesn't mean much.
I have shot some of it and the recoil isn't anything exceptional compared to other .357 loads.
Gene,
So, this round will not perform well under today's NIJ standards. Does that mean then that the round itself would of been dangerous in the 1960's and is not of any significance today with new and approved bullet resistant vests correct?
Thanks to you Gene and everybody else who have helped me out on this subject. I really appreciate it!
Mark
Gene,
It will not perform as well under todays values. Does that mean then that the round itself would of been dangerous in the 1960's and not of any significance today with new and approved vests correct? :munchin
MAB32
Mark
Gene Econ
12-31-2010, 07:37
Gene,
It will not perform as well under todays values. Does that mean then that the round itself would of been dangerous in the 1960's and not of any significance today with new and approved vests correct? :munchin MAB32 Mark
Mark:
You are making a serious error by assuming this stuff was designed as an armor piercing round. The box states 'Metal Piercing', not armor piercing. So, clear that up in your head immediately or you will certainly head down the wrong path in terms of your assumptions.
Shift back to a requirement for a pistol round to penetrate common civilian oriented material -- most likely automobiles. Not RHA or equivalents of RHA.
Now, use critical thinking and logic to deduce why this specific round of .357 Magnum went extinct. Hint -- it wasn't because cars got stronger and more bullet resistant.
Commercial ammunition doesn't go extinct unless it doesn't sell. And, ammunition generally won't sell because it either cost too much or it didn't perform any better than other less expensive alternatives. My guess in this case (guess only) is it was expensive and its performance against typical real world material wasn't a quantum improvement over issued 158 grain soft or hollow points of that era so it became extinct.
Gene
JAMMER01
01-04-2011, 02:17
do any of you have a Cartriges of the world book ??,look in there i do believe you will find that these are the a.p rounds
The Reaper
01-04-2011, 07:26
do any of you have a Cartriges of the world book ??,look in there i do believe you will find that these are the a.p rounds
You need to read the board rules and comply before posting again.
TR
More info on the IAA forum:
http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8713&p=62221
It is a great resource for these types of questions.
Thanks Odd Job, That is great info on the round. I also had a chance to take the .38 Special too. Instead I went for the Magnum Cartridges. Thanks too all who participated. Your a great bunch of Guys!
Mark
MAB32:)
It is a short run of AP initinally for LEOs who had SWAT, CT or high risk PSD duties
So it was on a limited basis too?
Mark