View Full Version : Race Riots in Moscow
According to RIA Novosti:
Police have detained over 2,100 protesters in Moscow and Moscow region on Saturday amid new wave of race disturbances.
About 1,300 people, many of them with non-lethal weapons, knives and baseball bats were detained in Moscow. Other 800 people were detained across Moscow region, local police spokesman Yevgeny Gildeev said.
About 100 people were detained near the All-Russian Exhibition Center (VVTs) in northeastern Moscow.
"Several groups of youth, each containing from ten to twenty people, were detained near the central entrance to [the park surrounding] VVTs and in close vicinity to the exhibition center. These citizens were detained in order to prevent and suppress unlawful acts," a police source said.
More (http://en.rian.ru/russia/20101218/161836880.html)
The Russian capital saw its biggest public disturbances for almost a decade when a 5,000-strong crowd of nationalists and football hooligans clashed with police at central Manezh Square last Saturday, December 11. The fans were protesting police negligence over the death of Yegor Sviridov, 28, who was killed in a brawl with migrants from Russia's North Caucasus region earlier in November.
The clash was followed on Wednesday by further disturbances as ethnic Russians and internal migrants gathered for a confrontation near a major train terminus in Moscow.
Nothing new...always been an issue in Russia and the old Soviet Union. They had ethnic Divisions because the races didn't work well together.
Nothing new...always been an issue in Russia and the old Soviet Union. They had ethnic Divisions because the races didn't work well together.
There and everywhere else. I remember this happening a few times before in Russia.
Interesting article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/21/AR2010122105023_pf.html) in the Washington Post.
Sarachev was 2 years old when the Soviet Union collapsed, 5 when the first war in Chechnya broke out, 12 on 9/11. His whole life has been an era of cataclysms, of an old world being torn apart, of war against Muslims, at home and abroad. Old identities, old certainties, have proved empty. And now he was joining others here of his own generation who are finding, in religion, an alternate authority. They are joining a global community, and at a time when great passions are stirring that community.
They learn at the mosque that Allah is punishing Iraqis for their heresies. They learn that 9/11 was carried out by American agents, or maybe agents from somewhere else, to provoke a war against Muslims. But they learn, too, that those who want to go and join the fight in Afghanistan, or Pakistan - and young men who aimed to do precisely that have passed through Almetyevsk - are in error. This is not the time. Islam needs them here, in Russia.
Last year, Sarachev got to know some young men who wanted to pick up guns and go fight abroad. They weren't from the mosque. He thinks they had taught themselves Islam on the Internet. Sometimes, when they met on the street, they'd start urging him to go off and fight against Americans.
He says he was troubled by it, and as he describes it he still looks troubled by it. He's struggling to understand even now what's expected of him by his religion. He went to the mosque and asked the imams for advice.
They explained to him, he says, that these young men were mistaken. "Those people who say they want to fight, they're like foam on water. There's a lot of foam, but it's useless."
Eventually they went away, he doesn't know where. Sarachev, yearning to dig deeper into Islam, is still uncertain about jihad, and the fight against devils. "It's very complicated. I don't want to be wrong."
Sakhibzyanov knew about the would-be fighters. All Muslims, he says, know they are part of a larger community that must defend itself. But leaving Tatarstan to fight elsewhere is, he says, the wrong choice. "They are needed here."
John_Chrichton
12-22-2010, 10:58
(I just came back from PT so I figured I could add my $0.0000002 to the discussion.)
Having been born in Russia, I would say that kgoerz and PRB are completely correct. Russia is a state comprised of what is probably thousands of ethnicities. Its citizens practice all of the world's major religions. This tension and violence is certainly nothing new. Just look at the events in Nagorno-Karabakh in the waning days of the Soviet Union. Economic collapse exacerbates ethnic divisions and drives people to violence. This has been made especially severe by the waves of immigrants from Central Asia. Russians are now competing for resources with these alien newcomers.
In my view, the Russian government's reliance on exports of natural resources has cannibalized other sectors of the economy. Many people who were formerly employed by the planned economy of the USSR are now either under- or un-employed. Many more are employed outside of their former professions and educations (former university professors selling vegetables on the street). At the same time, economic collapse in the former satellite states has driven hundreds of thousands into Russia looking for work. These factors have converged into a huge volatile mess.
In my view, if Russia continues to be a country that relies on natural resources for economic growth, without real democracy (yes I know Russia has never really had real democracy), then it will cease to exist as a state.
This tension and violence is certainly nothing new. Just look at the events in Nagorno-Karabakh in the waning days of the Soviet Union. Economic collapse exacerbates ethnic divisions and drives people to violence. This has been made especially severe by the waves of immigrants from Central Asia. Russians are now competing for resources with these alien newcomers.
In my view, the Russian government's reliance on exports of natural resources has cannibalized other sectors of the economy. Many people who were formerly employed by the planned economy of the USSR are now either under- or un-employed. Many more are employed outside of their former professions and educations (former university professors selling vegetables on the street). At the same time, economic collapse in the former satellite states has driven hundreds of thousands into Russia looking for work. These factors have converged into a huge volatile mess.
In my view, if Russia continues to be a country that relies on natural resources for economic growth, without real democracy (yes I know Russia has never really had real democracy), then it will cease to exist as a state.
John,
I respect your opinion but think you're smoking crack brat moj. :p
Agree the tension is nothing new however I believe the level of violence has increased to the point where it seems to be encouraged by the Soviet...er, Russian government. Pre-Putin, the Russian skinhead movement was forced underground whereas now, it's openly "allowed". The skinheads are basically a Putin goon squad.
NK? Really? Man, that was (is still) all orchestrated by the Russian special services. Russia has a vested interest in stirring up trouble in the Southern and Northern Caucasus. Ajaria, Abkhazia, Southern Ossetia...It's all about the greenbacks (soon to be Euros).
Economic collapse (I think you mean Soviet collapse)? I take it you have not been back to Russia (especially Moscow) in quite some time. The "new Russians" are for real...and they have plenty of ill gotten booty originally acquired from mafia activity as well as the raping of the State owned industries during the early 90's (I'm referring to Yelstin's "privizatsiya").
Russia is suffering from similar issues as the US regarding the alien newcomers, who are willing to work jobs that native Russians will not (in the US it's farm workers, groundskeepers, etc).
In my opinion, Russia will implode as long as it continues to divest in its primary commodity and steal from its primary power base: it's people. The government should:
1) get a handle on the pandemic of its alcoholic population.
2) establish quality medical care and reduce the infant mortality rate
3) reduce corruption at all levels
4) invest in Mother Russia
Russia could easily become a world superpower with a charismatic leader (take BHO...PLEASE!!!!) but I doubt it ever will as long as its leaders live in the now and continue to export cash from Russia.
The Mongol horde is again riding towards Moscow...albeit this time very slowly.
Good discussion and I value your viewpoint.
John_Chrichton
12-22-2010, 20:54
Agree the tension is nothing new however I believe the level of violence has increased to the point where it seems to be encouraged by the Soviet...er, Russian government. Pre-Putin, the Russian skinhead movement was forced underground whereas now, it's openly "allowed". The skinheads are basically a Putin goon squad.
Ethnic warfare in Russia peaked in the mid 90s when it's economy shit the bed. During that time, groups like the RNU were at the height of their popularity, Zyuganov came in second during the presidential election and the Russian communist party actually won a majority in parliament. Russia was going crazy at the time. It subsided for a while during the upswing and is now increasing in intensity again. Today, Russia is dominated by a single party and is basically a fascist state. Not sure if any of these groups are actually encouraged by the government, but their levels of activity are indicative of the destabilizing effect that the past two decades have had on Russian society. Basically, Russia is falling apart at the seams and is steadily drifting toward a totalitarianism. Because only a totalitarian government can keep that country together for any length of time.
NK? Really? Man, that was (is still) all orchestrated by the Russian special services. Russia has a vested interest in stirring up trouble in the Southern and Northern Caucasus. Ajaria, Abkhazia, Southern Ossetia...It's all about the greenbacks (soon to be Euros).
The orchestration by Russian/Soviet intelligence may be true, however I used the NK conflict as an example of how quickly ethnic tensions erupt into violence in the context of economic collapse.
Economic collapse (I think you mean Soviet collapse)? I take it you have not been back to Russia (especially Moscow) in quite some time. The "new Russians" are for real...and they have plenty of ill gotten booty originally acquired from mafia activity as well as the raping of the State owned industries during the early 90's (I'm referring to Yelstin's "privizatsiya").
I was specifically referring to how economic collapse affected the average Russian citizen. For example, I am from a small industrial town that used to be famous for its textile industry. When the economy collapsed, the communist party elite (largely from Moscow) were able to take control of the state's resources and industries through privatization, specifically by issuing vouchers and then buying them back from the population. Those industries that were directly profitable (gas, oil, zinc, aluminum, copper etc) were kept going at a minimal level or were sold to overseas firms at deep discounts but for sums still large enough to make their New Russian owners rich. Even then Russian heavy industry was skeletal at best. Along with this, as happened in my region, light industry and the service sector completely collapsed, leaving millions of people out of work. The Russian economy never "recovered", or rather, never took the shape that Western economists thought it would take ie that of a modern, European state. So yes, while there are "New Russians" who have grown immensely rich, the general populace is still extremely poor and unable to compete in the world economy.
[When talking about the "shock therapy" reforms of Chubais, it's interesting to note that over the years he repeatedly indicated that the intention of his reforms was to ensure that Communism never returns to Russia. They were never meant to transform Russia into a Western-style economic power, contrary to what many people in the US and Europe assumed].
Russia is suffering from similar issues as the US regarding the alien newcomers, who are willing to work jobs that native Russians will not (in the US it's farm workers, groundskeepers, etc).
There may be a parallel. However, the division is much deeper than that. As PRB noted earlier, Russia's problems extend into religious and ethnic hatred that are centuries old. Outside of Moscow, the situation is different. Newcomers are competing for jobs directly with native Russians. Immigrants from Central Asia have, since the 90s, taken control of the commerce of many of these smaller towns. All of these factors combine into bitter resentment and hatred between the two groups that in many places is much more pronounced than the US immigration debacle.
In my opinion, Russia will implode as long as it continues to divest in its primary commodity and steal from its primary power base: it's people. The government should:
1) get a handle on the pandemic of its alcoholic population.
2) establish quality medical care and reduce the infant mortality rate
3) reduce corruption at all levels
4) invest in Mother Russia
Russia could easily become a world superpower with a charismatic leader (take BHO...PLEASE!!!!) but I doubt it ever will as long as its leaders live in the now and continue to export cash from Russia.
The Mongol horde is again riding towards Moscow...albeit this time very slowly.
Well unfortunately the Russian government is doing exactly the opposite. It's much easier to make money by exporting natural gas than to invest in nontech and IT. That's why Russia is declining in relevance as a world power and will continue to decline. And I'm not so sure about the slowly part. I think very quickly.
Which is very unfortunate because there are many talented, hard working, educated people in Russia who try to make an honest living despite what the criminals in the Kremlin are doing.
Again, just my $0.000002 :munchin
Good discussion and I value your viewpoint.
Aww shucks! :o
I definitely like the discussion, thank you!
mark46th
12-22-2010, 23:35
'Which is very unfortunate because there are many talented, hard working, educated people in Russia who try to make an honest living despite what the criminals in the Kremlin are doing.' J Crichton
I'm afraid you are right, John. Russia has become a Mafiocracy...
'Which is very unfortunate because there are many talented, hard working, educated people in Russia who try to make an honest living despite what the criminals in the Kremlin are doing.' J Crichton
I'm afraid you are right, John. Russia has become a Mafiocracy...
Our Govt system is not any better. Just our leaders are so pompus they do it right in front of our faces. I can't put my finger on it. But I think our Leaders are worse then any of the Mafia. Our Govt leaders are laughed at every day by other countries