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longrange1947
12-10-2010, 08:45
Well guys, the USASOC sniper Comp is now history. It finished up with the Day Scrambler event and “Back to Basics Shoot”. All had fun, most enjoyed, some were a bit frustrated, all learned that the basics are important!

Day one, 6 Dec consisted of the cold Bore shoot, single shot by both team members at a target size of their choice. ¾ moa, 1 ¼ moa/ and 2 moa at 200 meters. Most forgot the basics of dry firing and settling in before the first shot and paid the price. After that event, the competitors were split into two groups with half going to the Field Shoot and half to the low percentage shoot. Field shoot had five targets on a side at ranges from 550 to 800 meters. The targets were 12 inch gongs. The teams would move to one side and the sniper would shoot five targets in 5 minutes, 30 seconds, and then switch sides, targets, and shooter/observer. They then shoot the five targets on that side in 5 minutes and 30 seconds. Here the basics were important as well as sequence. The other event was the low percentage shoot in which the snipers had to locate and hit designated threat targets mixed in with civilians. The targets were heads only with about ¼ to ½ of the head covered. Ranges were from 80 meters to about 370 meters. The sniper teams had to move into a room in a building, establish their site and then engage the targets in 8 minutes. Finally the tired puppies were sent out to the night Field Shoot which was ran similar to the day field shoot except during the day they could not use lasers or other aids only mil and during the night they could mil, use lasers illuminators, etc to assist in the target hits. Thus, that ended the first day of competition.

Day two started off with One shot in which the sniper team engaged two targets, one at 700 meters, 12 inch gong, and the other at 650 meters a square 14 inch gong. The sniper with bolt gun engaged the 12 inch with a single shot and then switched over to the observers with a gas gun to engage the square gong. They could use laser range finders, mil dot whatever was necessary to hit the target with that one shot. They had 1 minute each to engage. After this they again split and went to the Loophole shoot and the Mongolian Horde shoot. Loophole required them to shoot through a 2 inch loophole at various targets ranging from about 80 meters to 400 meters. All were small LaRue and pepper popper targets. At the Mongolian Horde, the sniper teams were required to hit 10 targets per side switching out the shooter observer and targets ranged from LaRue up close, 140 meters, to IPSC iron maidens at 700 meters. The teams had to shoot all the targets with a single setting on their scopes and had 5 minutes to engage ten targets on a side, and thus ended day two with no night shooting event.

Day three started with half doing the bailout shoot and half stalking and then switching at mid day. The stalk was a 360 degree stalk. They had to get within 400 meters and the closer they got the more points they got for hitting the target on the live fire portion. Once they finished the stalk they had to replicate the shot live fire on the range at a target placed the lased distance and in the same opposition used for the blank fire. Bail out was a scenario in which a sniper team fired and was compromised and chased. They were required to engage targets with their pistol and observer weapon system at targets from 15 meters to 400 meters, stationary and moving. That night they were tasked with a night move out scenario with all the rockets’ red glare, explosions, and simulated shooting. This was the Night Scrambler and tested the snipers in judgment, movement tactics and ability to shoot under stress of 9 bangers going off next to them. There were also a special effects crew that set up rockets, explosions as well as realistic gun fire for distracters for the sniper teams. This ran well into the night and worked onto day four where they did it again!

Day four started with the day scrambler. While similar to the night scrambler, was longer and more intense. They were to move to a downed helicopter where a wounded pilot was to be rescued. They had to shoot at bad guys and not hit the good guys. They began shoot two movers mixed in with civilians and then FAST roped to the ground to move along a route full of bad guys and mixed in civilians. Once at the helicopter, unless you were very good you were out of ammo with a horde descending on you. Since Battle field recovery was authorized, an AK47 was sitting next to the helicopter for anyone that needed it. Also in the helicopter was a real human with only one leg and sporting blood. That sucker weighed about 225 and you should have seen the guys doing the fireman carry with this big sucker! Yes, he actually only had ONE leg! Now that they were tired and keyed up they came to the last event, “Back to Basics” in which they had one minute for each to fire a five round group at 25 meters into their assigned standard zero target. Group sizes were measured by the “On Target” system and points awarded according to tightest to largest group size.

Thus ended the comp with CAG in first, Rangers in Second, 1st Group in third, Marines in fourth and 10th Group in fifth. There were 19 teams ranging from Raleigh PD, DOE, ATF, each group, two Ranger teams, two Marine teams, Army Sniper School, and, of course, CAG. The prize table is huge with the banquet tonight at 1700 at the Holiday Inn Bordeaux. I plan on getting a bit drunk and seeing if I can catch a ride home or just sleep in the lobby!

{Corrected - Richard}

Richard
12-10-2010, 09:06
Sounds like a helluva week, Rick - not to mention all the prep work needed prior to the official event. Thanks for the update.

I'd get a room, get a bit 'tipsy' and crash at the hotel for the night - sleeping in lobbies, airports, hangers and such just don't hack it any more...that age thing. ;) :D

Well done. :lifter

Richard :munchin

perdurabo
12-10-2010, 10:16
Thus ended the comp with CAG in first, Rangers in Second, 1st Group in third, Marines in fourth and 1st Group in fifth.

Are 3rd and 5th place correct, Rick?

The basics, strange things, why do we need to continually refocus on them?

longrange1947
12-10-2010, 13:02
Are 3rd and 5th place correct, Rick?

The basics, strange things, why do we need to continually refocus on them?

No, it is a typo, fifth is 10th Group and third place is correct. Sorry, I missed the typo when I checked it prior to posting. As all here well know, my writing skills is somewhere around the third grade level and typing skills even lower. :D

Richard
12-10-2010, 16:34
Story here - includes album of 13 pics of the event.

Snipers Brave Tough Competition At Fort Bragg
FayObsvr, 10 Dev 2010

http://fayobserver.com/articles/2010/12/10/1054367?sac=Mil

Richard :munchin

aegisnavy
12-10-2010, 17:08
Story here - includes album of 13 pics of the event.


I can only say WOW...and...that is some pretty intense/realistic scenarios. Thank you for the post.

Peregrino
12-10-2010, 18:57
Went out there Thursday to "see what was going on". As expected, Range 37 was hosting a premier event. We'd been following events from the office so it was really nice to get eyes on. For the curious I'm including the .ppt briefing. Those of you who follow shooting will immediately understand the inherent challenges. Scores - as a percentage of the possible were generally low - indicative of the degree of difficulty the contestants had to overcome. I did have the impression that some of the competitors were showing wear and tear; something to do with "challenging competition" vs. "endurance event". Thermal underwear ranked right up there with rifles as essential equipment. At least this year there wasn't any percipitation. Saw a bunch of friends (some of them board members) at the sponsor's tents. Like any quality event, it left everybody looking forward to next year.

longrange1947
12-11-2010, 12:00
Richard - thank you for editing my mistake on the rankings, I forgot to make the change in the main post after I was asked about it earlier.

To give you guys an idea of how the basics that I talked about bit a bunch of guys. The One shot event had only one single target hit. The reasons were, one they lased the ground behind the target which was at 835 to 850 meters while the target was at 725 meters. The guys that actually ranged it correctly shot low because they let their ammo get cold, it was about 21 degrees and warmed to a rousing 24 degrees by end of the event. Those that ranged and kept their ammo warm, missed due to the fact they saw a right to left wind and "felt" an eight to ten mph wind on their face. Problem was the wind was of little value down there and the 10 mph wind felt was actually a 2 - 3 mph "effective" wind. A number ran out of time by not assessing the situation before starting and then losing sequence and thus time.

The Reaper
12-11-2010, 12:54
And there were some surprise shooters.:D

TR

jbour13
12-11-2010, 13:46
And there were some surprise shooters.:D

TR

Heard the Bladesmith did rather well.

Congrats goes to Bill.

orion5
12-11-2010, 14:33
And there were some surprise shooters.:D

Looking good, Mr H! I also heard you did really well...;)

18DWife
12-11-2010, 17:12
Looking good, Mr H! I also heard you did really well...;)

:lifter:D

The Reaper
12-11-2010, 21:09
Heard the Bladesmith did rather well.

Congrats goes to Bill.

Well, I never saw him miss the whole time he was shooting.:D

TR

longrange1947
12-13-2010, 07:56
And that was with me harrassing him. :D

craigepo
12-13-2010, 09:27
To give you guys an idea of how the basics that I talked about bit a bunch of guys. The One shot event had only one single target hit. The reasons were, one they lased the ground behind the target which was at 835 to 850 meters while the target was at 725 meters. The guys that actually ranged it correctly shot low because they let their ammo get cold, it was about 21 degrees and warmed to a rousing 24 degrees by end of the event. Those that ranged and kept their ammo warm, missed due to the fact they saw a right to left wind and "felt" an eight to ten mph wind on their face. Problem was the wind was of little value down there and the 10 mph wind felt was actually a 2 - 3 mph "effective" wind. A number ran out of time by not assessing the situation before starting and then losing sequence and thus time.

THAT is some PH.D-level marksmanship discussion. I hope the young guys pay attention when longrange types.

perdurabo
12-13-2010, 10:49
THAT is some PH.D-level marksmanship discussion. I hope the young guys pay attention when longrange types.

Dnno about the young guys, but us old guys that could learn a thing or two are :lifter

Fortunately, I'm not at that level where my ammo temps are going to make a difference.

kawaishi
12-13-2010, 11:16
Does anyone know where the Marine teams were from and which one placed 4th? I've been looking and every article just references "the Marines."

longrange1947
12-13-2010, 11:56
One team was from LeJuene and the other from Hawaii.

The fourth place team had Gilland and Royal as competitors.

The other Marine team place 10th and had Standridge and Fortson as competitors.

Now I will have to run down which team was which as my scoresheet does not delineate team break down by location.

kawaishi
12-13-2010, 19:40
Thanks!

Richard
12-15-2010, 15:42
SWCS posted pics just posted on Flickr.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/insideswcs/sets/72157625605810492/

Richard

Bill Harsey
12-16-2010, 08:25
It was an honor to be in the company of those that shot this competition and meet old friends, members of this board and make new acquaintances.

It is humbling to get another glimpse into the world of those that do the hard work.

A special thanks to Longrange1947 for all the assistance and guidance you provided me. ;) An honor to spend a little time with you. :lifter

longrange1947
12-16-2010, 21:46
You are welcome Bill, but I think my guidance was more of a harassing nature while you shot. :D

You did good though!!! :)

It was a pleasure to talk with you!

Retiredfire
12-17-2010, 20:58
I am curious about how whether or not the shooters kept their ammo at body vs ambient temp affected their ability to hit a target? I read in another post that a 70 degree change in temp resulted in a 50 or so change in fps.

longrange1947
12-17-2010, 21:36
Newer powders are not as temp sensitive as the older ones, but yes, we tell the snipers to maintain the same temp or shifts will occur. The easiest is to keep your rounds next to you for zeroing and again before a shot. Not let the ammo heat up in the chamber of a hot weapon, in the sun, or conversely setting out in freezing weather.

It is the little things that will bite you on the long shots. You will get away with not protecting your ammo in the short ranges but at longer ranges you will pay for it. The greater the range the greater the effect. Most shooters know to to let their ammo set out int eh sun but forget about the cold which has the reverse effect.

Retiredfire
12-17-2010, 21:46
LR1947 Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.

frostfire
01-06-2011, 23:56
Richard - thank you for editing my mistake on the rankings, I forgot to make the change in the main post after I was asked about it earlier.

To give you guys an idea of how the basics that I talked about bit a bunch of guys. The One shot event had only one single target hit. The reasons were, one they lased the ground behind the target which was at 835 to 850 meters while the target was at 725 meters. The guys that actually ranged it correctly shot low because they let their ammo get cold, it was about 21 degrees and warmed to a rousing 24 degrees by end of the event. Those that ranged and kept their ammo warm, missed due to the fact they saw a right to left wind and "felt" an eight to ten mph wind on their face. Problem was the wind was of little value down there and the 10 mph wind felt was actually a 2 - 3 mph "effective" wind. A number ran out of time by not assessing the situation before starting and then losing sequence and thus time.

master Rick,

now I see why you said there's no such thing as "one shot, one kill" only "one shot, x% probability of hit." So much moving variables, science transcending to art, and so on. Just curious, did anybody use the Horus reticle in the competition and get effective result?

As always, thanks for the education....now how can one do the side matches during these event :boohoo

longrange1947
01-07-2011, 07:33
The Horus was used by a number of teams to include the top fiishers. The Horus has a place in sniping, to what extent is the crux of the debate by many to include myself. The Horus excels at certain tasks and falls short on some of the others.

frostfire
04-21-2011, 14:21
From the top finisher and his coach:
(copy and paste)horusvision.wordpress.com/2010/11/29/sfc-edward-homeyers-personal-account-using-horus/
(copy and paste)horusvision.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/how-to-use-the-h58-reticle-by-todd-hodnett/

Looks like Larue OBR dominated as well.
OBR or MWS....MWS or OBR....so much great tools, so little money :boohoo