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Dusty
11-28-2010, 18:51
Just came out on Fox:

There's a picture on the link.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/11/24/armys-revolutionary-rifle-use-afghanistan/?test=faces

Since the dawn of modern warfare, the best way to stay alive in the face of incoming fire has been to take cover behind a wall. But thanks to a game-changing "revolutionary" rifle, the U.S. Army has made that tactic dead on arrival. Now the enemy can run, but he can't hide.

After years of development, the U.S. Army has unleashed a new weapon in Afghanistan -- the XM25 Counter Defilade Target Engagement System, a high-tech rifle that can be programmed so that its 25-mm. ammunition does not necessarily explode on impact. Instead, it can be set to detonate either in front of or behind a target, meaning it literally will go through a wall before it explodes and kills the enemy.

It also has a range of roughly 2,300 feet -- nearly the length of eight football fields -- making it possible to fire at targets well past the range of the rifles and carbines that most soldiers carry today.

Lt. Col. Christopher Lehner, project manager for the semi-automatic, shoulder-fired weapon system for the U.S. Army's Program Executive Office Soldier, said that the XM25's capability alone is such a "game-changer" that it'll lead to new ways of fighting on the battlefield, beginning this month in Afghanistan.

"With this weapon system, we take away cover from [enemy targets] forever," Lehner told FoxNews.com on Wednesday. "Tactics are going to have to be rewritten. The only thing we can see [enemies] being able to do is run away."

With this new weapon in the Army's arsenal, Lehner said, "We're much more effective, by many magnitudes, than current weapons at the squad level. We're able to shoot farther and more accurately, and our soldiers can stay behind sandbags, walls or rocks, which provides them protection from fire."

Lehner said the first XM25s were distributed to combat units in Afghanistan this month. The 12-pound, 29-inch system, which was designed by Minnesota's Alliant Techsystems, costs up to $35,000 per unit and, while highly sophisticated, is so easy to use that soldiers become proficient within minutes.

"That's how intuitively easy it is, even though it's high-tech," Lehner said. "All a soldier needs to know how to do is laze the target. It decimates anything within its lethal radius."

Once the trigger is pulled and the round leaves the barrel, a computer chip inside the projectile communicates exactly how far it has traveled, allowing for precise detonation behind or ahead of any target.

"We have found that this has really made our soldiers so much more accurate and being able to deliver this high-explosive round in about five seconds," said Lehner, taking into account the time it takes a soldier to laze, aim and fire the weapon. Once fired, Lehner said, the round will reach its target in a "second or two," meaning the entire process from aiming to direct hit lasts less than 10 seconds, compared to 10 minutes or longer for traditional mortar fire.

A potential battlefield scenario, according to Army officials, might go something like this:

-- A patrol encounters an enemy combatant in a walled Afghan village who fires an AK-47 intermittently from behind cover, exposing himself only for a brief second to fire.

-- The patrol's leader calls for the XM25 gunman, who uses the weapon's laser range finder to calculate the distance to the target.

-- He then uses an incremental button located near the trigger to add 1 meter to the round's distance, since the enemy is hiding behind a wall.

-- The round is fired, and it explodes with a blast comparable to a hand grenade past the wall and above the enemy.

"This is revolutionary for many reasons," Lehner said, citing increased efficiency, safety and lethality. "This is the first time we're putting smart technology in an individual weapon system for our soldiers. We feel it's very important to field this because it keeps us ahead of the technological curve of our potential enemies. We have a feeling other people will try to copy us -- this is the future."

Lehner said the Army plans to purchase at least 12,500 XM25 systems beginning next year -- enough for one system in each infantry squad and Special Forces team.

The military isn't overly concerned that the weapon might be captured by the enemy, because they would be unable to obtain its highly specialized ammunition, batteries and other components. Lehner said he expects other nations will try to copy its technology, but it will be very cost-prohibitive.

"This is a game-changer," Lehner said. "The enemy has learned to get cover, for hundreds if not thousands of years.

"Well, they can't do that anymore. We're taking that cover from them and there's only two outcomes: We're going to get you behind that cover or force you to flee. So no matter what, we gotcha."

wet dog
11-28-2010, 19:04
What happens when our enemies obtain these weapons by means of battle field recovery, or say, some former Navy SEAL sells one to a Mexican connection.

I hope I don't hear, "Men we are returning to grid coordinates, such and such, to recovery a missing weapon, we expect to face heavy opposition."

This is not crypto from a USAF aircraft, or something more sensitive.

Can we move quickly past all these little speed bumps and simply drop a nuke on Mecca, or something else?

I'm open to suggestions.

Penn
11-28-2010, 19:40
Maybe some Pate perhaps?

longrange1947
11-28-2010, 19:43
And so the weapon of about 5 to 6 years ago again rears it head. First produced by H&K, OIWC, I do believe, could be wrong, have been before. :D

Buffalobob
11-28-2010, 19:51
Dusty?
Come up, Dusty!!!!

This is 01 actual, come up Dusty!


Dusty come on up, you need to edit the middle of your thread. If you don't come up we're going to to put an airburst over you to wake you up. Break squelch twice if you copy.
01 actual out!

Dusty
11-28-2010, 20:01
Dusty?
Come up, Dusty!!!!

This is 01 actual, come up Dusty!


Dusty come on up, you need to edit the middle of your thread. If you don't come up we're going to to put an airburst over you to wake you up. Break squelch twice if you copy.
01 actual out!


:o I allowed hunger to detract me from proofreading my post. I've given myself a demerit.

The Reaper
11-28-2010, 20:13
Ah, the return (again) of the late and unlamented OICW.

What a POS. Low lethality when compared to the 40mm, unless the round detonates in the barrel, like it did with the test weapons, and injures the shooter.

Tell you what, you take the XM25 for $35,000 and I'll take an M79 or M203 with $34,000 worth of ammo to train with and we'll see which is more effective in the end.

Especially when you find out how much the battery pack weighs and how long it lasts.

TR

Dusty
11-28-2010, 20:24
You'd think they've had enough time to refine the system to the point that it automatically adds another meter as opposed to having to diddle with a button, eh?

Tree Potato
11-28-2010, 21:53
Same question pops to mind with this as when OICW initially trundled out...have ROE for its use been thought through?

I can already hear the chorus of righteous indignation rising from the usual flock of doves the first time an unseen "innocent" family is taken out while eliminating a threat that hid in a hut.

perdurabo
11-29-2010, 00:21
What happens when our enemies obtain these weapons by means of battle field recovery, or say, some former Navy SEAL sells one to a Mexican connection.

I'm open to suggestions.

This is where the pre-firing 4 digit PIN code & biometric fingerprint scanner on the trigger come in... :D

Simple is better with nearly everything, especially guns and vehicles.

Debo
11-29-2010, 09:07
Geeez. If I hear the term "game changer" one more time....

:rolleyes:


D.

swatsurgeon
11-29-2010, 13:38
I wonder what the wound ballistics are in gelatin on that round?? Inquiring minds want to know?? Through the barrier then does devastating things....reminds me of LeMas,,,,nah
ss

Dusty
11-29-2010, 13:43
I wonder what the wound ballistics are in gelatin on that round?? Inquiring minds want to know?? Through the barrier then does devastating things....reminds me of LeMas,,,,nah
ss

Wound ballistics? That's classified.

We'll have to wait for it to come out on Wiki.

craigepo
11-29-2010, 14:00
Whatever happened to having a couple guys carry a LAW rocket?

Spend a couple grand, outfit the platoon with LAWs, blow the damned wall down the old-fashioned way. Take the remaining $33,000, throw a beach party with booze, steaks, and whatever locals that might want a trip to the land of the big PX.

greenberetTFS
11-29-2010, 14:28
What happens when our enemies obtain these weapons by means of battle field recovery, or say, some former Navy SEAL sells one to a Mexican connection.

I hope I don't hear, "Men we are returning to grid coordinates, such and such, to recovery a missing weapon, we expect to face heavy opposition."

This is not crypto from a USAF aircraft, or something more sensitive.

Can we move quickly past all these little speed bumps and simply drop a nuke on Mecca, or something else?

I'm open to suggestions.


The military isn't overly concerned that the weapon might be captured by the enemy, because they would be unable to obtain its highly specialized ammunition, batteries and other components. Lehner said he expects other nations will try to copy its technology, but it will be very cost-prohibitive.

We are looking at this the wrong way!........:eek: We should let them find it and hope they'll try a use it..........:rolleyes: From what longrange and TR are saying it's a POS and it may behoove us when they try to use it............;)

Big Teddy :munchin

wet dog
11-29-2010, 20:35
The military isn't overly concerned that the weapon might be captured by the enemy, because they would be unable to obtain its highly specialized ammunition, batteries and other components. Lehner said he expects other nations will try to copy its technology, but it will be very cost-prohibitive.

We are looking at this the wrong way!........:eek: We should let them find it and hope they'll try a use it..........:rolleyes: From what longrange and TR are saying it's a POS and it may behoove us when they try to use it............;)

Big Teddy :munchin

Well I'm convinced.

Might just issue them to the enemy, along with Arnold's Plasma in a 40 Watt range, or the cool stuff used by the US Colonial Maines in Alliens.

"Someone wake up Hick!"

aegisnavy
12-01-2010, 14:27
Just a small update, FWIW.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101201/pl_afp/usmilitaryweaponsafghanistan

mark46th
12-01-2010, 14:43
Craigpo-"Whatever happened to having a couple guys carry a LAW rocket?"

I have always thought the RPG was more effective. It's definitely cheaper and more dependable..

aegisnavy- I notice in the article that none of the grunts that were carrying it were interviewed. I would like to hear from someone who carried and used it.

Pete
12-01-2010, 14:50
Yeah, yeah, but the important question is "Does it look sexy in a posser picture?"

mark46th
12-01-2010, 14:59
Pete- When I was in SE Asia, we invited a couple of Doctors from NKP out to our camp. We painted them up, put them in a STABO Rig, gave them different weapons, threw some some red smoke and took their pictures as they charged through the smoke. They had a ball.

aegisnavy
12-01-2010, 18:30
aegisnavy- I notice in the article that none of the grunts that were carrying it were interviewed. I would like to hear from someone who carried and used it.

I agree. Probably will be a while until we see some AAR's.

I'd hate to be the grunt that dropped it and broke it running for cover ;)

wet dog
12-01-2010, 19:10
I agree. Probably will be a while until we see some AAR's.

I'd hate to be the grunt that dropped it and broke it running for cover ;)

I once lost a weapon, M16A2/M203.

Went to supply, it went something like this.

Me: SGT, I need a new weapon.

Supply SGT: What happened to the one you were issued?

Me: Lost.

Supply SGT: Where?

Me: Ocean.

Supply SGT: I can't give a weapon just because you said you lost it.

Me: Why?

Supply SGT: Because, an investigation has to be started, forms filled out, you know, stuff?

Me: Well you're welcome to go swim 1.5 miles out, dive 800 ft., and look for yourself.

Supply SGT: Not likely,....NEXT!

Me: (having turned around), CPL, let me see that weapon you have.

CPL: Yes Sergeant, ( I was an SFC/E7 then).

Me: Fine weapon, does it fire well, is it dependable?

CPL: Yes Sergeant.

Me: Fine, go to supply and get yourself a new weapon.

ApacheIP
12-01-2010, 22:59
but I loved the LAW. Something comforting about the whoosh and boom. The only time I fired the thing pre GW1 was in basic, practice round of course. Sorta like a bottle rocket launched from a 2 inch piece of PVC. Near KKMC in 1991 I got to shoot 5 of the real things at a range.

During GW1 the LAW was the weapon we were issued along with our .38 pea shooters. Nothing else, except 3 grenades I was given by a friend from 6th CAV. As an aviator you can imagine my surprise as to why myself and my stick bud were issued LAAW's. We carried 4 in the aft bay. My bud thought we had them in case we went down and needed to destroy the aircraft, I always thought we had them in case we went down and felt the need to shoot at the Republican Guard horde. No guidance for either theory.

To this day I find it funny my first combat mission ever we had 16 Hellfires, 600 30mm, 22 rnds of .38, 4 LAW's and 3 frags.

As far as that XM thingy goes we have better, proven stuff. Smart bombs? OK. Smart bullets? Meh...

dac
12-09-2010, 10:13
Whatever happened to having a couple guys carry a LAW rocket?

Spend a couple grand, outfit the platoon with LAWs, blow the damned wall down the old-fashioned way. Take the remaining $33,000, throw a beach party with booze, steaks, and whatever locals that might want a trip to the land of the big PX.


While I agree with you, I think the rest of the story is...

U.S. Government pays $350,000 to rebuild wall and pay restitution for innocent goat standing nearby.