View Full Version : Military Finds Wreckage of Air Force Fighter Jet in Alaska
scotchrick05
11-17-2010, 16:52
Heres another $143 Million down the tube.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/17/air-force-fighter-jet-missing-alaska/#content
Heres another $143 Million down the tube.Were the pilot known to be alive, I'd probaby not be offended by your cynicism...
Green Light
11-17-2010, 18:12
SOF Truth #1 applies here:
Humans are more important than Hardware.
Learn it. Love it. Live it.
Prayers for his return, his family, and for those who are risking their lives for his safe return.
Heres another $143 Million down the tube.
Just do push ups until the QPs get tired.
Nightfall
11-17-2010, 19:06
Heres another $143 Million down the tube.
Wow, seriously? Out of that article, that's what you came away with? There is a man missing, someone's son, someone's father, someone's brother, someone's friend. :confused: I can't imagine what his family is going through.
ApacheIP
11-17-2010, 20:33
Heres another $143 Million down the tube.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/17/air-force-fighter-jet-missing-alaska/#content
Dang....that 143mil was just "stuff".
The pilot was the most important thing in that titanium and aluminum box.
Calibrate mate.
Oldrotorhead
11-17-2010, 21:25
Heres another $143 Million down the tube.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/17/air-force-fighter-jet-missing-alaska/#content
I had a friend and classmate in flight school. His name was Dale Pierce, he is now considered KIA, body not recovered. There were three others on board the UH-1 that are in the same status. I think of him even after almost 40 years. Do you think anyone gives a shit about the eqipment lost. You need to get your mind right or find another calling.
We are keeping the pilot in our thoughts and prayers. May he come home safely.
Prayers out for the pilot, search & rescue crews and the family.
Not welcome news at all, especially coming on the heels of the C-17 crash here in July. Our community here is small and these things hurt not just the family, but the rest of us as well.
Susan
colmurph
11-18-2010, 07:59
Heres another $143 Million down the tube.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/17/air-force-fighter-jet-missing-alaska/#content
SF Candidate? Hope you wash out. I wouldn't want you serving on an A-Team and wondering if you'd leave your buddies to rescue an expensive piece of hardware.
R.I.P Capt. Jeffrey Haney
Air Force says pilot died in F-22 crash
TRAINING FLIGHT: Investigators have not found any remains yet.
By CASEY GROVE
casey.grove@adn.com
Published: November 20th, 2010 12:36 AM
Last Modified: November 20th, 2010 01:45 AM
The pilot of an F-22 Raptor fighter jet that went down Tuesday during a training flight over Interior Alaska died in the crash, Col. Jack McMullen, commander of the Air Force's 3rd Wing, said Friday.
At a brief press conference on Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, where the plane was based, McMullen said evidence at the scene of the crash about 100 miles north of Anchorage and south of the Denali Highway, including pieces of Capt. Jeff Haney's flight suit and other personal affects, led investigators to the conclusion that he didn't survive. Part of the aircraft's ejection seat was also found at the scene.
"Sadly, we can no longer consider this a search and rescue operation but must now focus on recovery operations," McMullen said.
"We have not found the body yet or discovered any remains," he said.
The single-seat F-22 vanished from radar and broke off communications about an hour and 20 minutes into nighttime training maneuvers with another F-22, McMullen said.
"The weather was beautiful. It was a clear night, about 77 to 80 percent moon illumination," McMullen said at the press conference. "You could see the ground, you could see mountains, you could see the terrain. So it was a great night to fly airplanes."
McMullen said the planes were about 10 miles apart, with Haney's jet in front, as Haney was making a 180-degree turn to rejoin the other plane to fly home. They were passing each other about 2 miles apart when contact with Haney was lost.
An emergency locator transmitter would have been activated if the pilot had ejected but no such signal was detected, McMullen said.
The $143 million aircraft augured into the ground in a snow-covered valley between two mountains, he said.
An Air Force photograph of the crash scene taken from the air shows a crater surrounded by a darkened area.
"It looks like basically an 18- to 20-foot round hole, and it's got water, I don't know how much water is in it now, and it's starting to freeze over," McMullen said.
There was wreckage inside and out of the crater, McMullen said.
About 130 Air Force and Army personnel would continue searching for Haney's remains and gather evidence from the crash site, still a daunting task, base spokesman John Pennell said. Officials were uncertain how long military people and equipment would remain on the scene.
"We are really in the process now of determining how we're going to get the airplane and what type of equipment we need," McMullen said. "This is going to be a fairly long process."
McMullen said an interim investigation team was at the scene of the crash Friday. Recovery operations could take weeks, he said, and an investigation board would look at why the plane went down.
Searchers arrived at the crash site Friday afternoon after driving about 60 miles east from Cantwell on the closed-for-winter Denali Highway to a shuttered wilderness lodge about two miles past a bridge over the Susitna River. The lodge is serving as headquarters for the operation.
The two convoys driving north from Anchorage to Cantwell Thursday were stalled by snow and wind, Pennell said. A second convoy was en route Friday carrying the equivalent of four C-17 Globemaster loads full of supplies, according to the military. The C-17 can carry a maximum payload of 170,900 pounds, according to Boeing, its manufacturer.
To get to the lodge, the Army and Air Force had some help from the state Department of Transportation, which plowed a way through the snow on the gravel highway. The lodge is about 60 miles east of Cantwell a couple miles past the Susitna River.
"It's hard to put what we're doing into words," Air Force Lt. Col. Scott Jackson, Emergency Operations Center director, said in a release. "What we're doing is like building a small city of support to supply the site. We're setting up an airport and hotel in the middle of nowhere, essentially."
Search coordinators continued to watch the cold: Temperatures in the area dropped to 10 below zero Friday, with a wind chill of 20 below. Similar temperatures were expected Friday night, according to the National Weather Service.
Keeping their personnel fed and warm was a priority in the cold weather, Pennell said.
"Alaska can kill you pretty quick like that," Pennell said.
The Air Warrior Courage Foundations has set up an education fund for Haney's children, according to a statement from Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson released Friday. Information on the fund is available from Capt. Tyler Ellison at 551-5250 or ellisonTM@hotmail.com.
Read more: http://www.adn.com/2010/11/19/1563439/air-force-says-pilot-died-in-crash.html#ixzz15qGAi5Ht
A sad conclusion to the story. Rest in Peace Cpt. Haney. Thank you for your service. Our thoughts and prayers go out to his family.
Rest in Peace Capt. Haney, thank you for your service.
Sleep well Warrior.
TrapLine
11-20-2010, 11:15
Rest in peace, Capt. Haney. Thank you for your service and sacrifice. My prayers are with your family.
BoyScout
11-20-2010, 11:34
Prayer are out. Rest in peace Captain.
Rest in Peace, Captain Haney. :(
scotchrick05
11-20-2010, 12:52
Gentlemen,
Sorry I didn't get back here sooner to reply.
Even more so, I apologize about my original statement in my initial post here, as I most definitely did not mean to neglect the sacrifice that CPT Jeffrey Haney paid to our country. Those of you here who know me personally can attest that this certainly was not my intention. I've lost several people close to me from this war like most of you have, and the significance of these events have had profound impacts on my life.
The Haney's are in my family's prayers.
Gentlemen,
Sorry I didn't get back here sooner to reply.
Even more so, I apologize about my original statement in my initial post here, as I most definitely did not mean to neglect the sacrifice that CPT Jeffrey Haney paid to our country. Those of you here who know me personally can attest that this certainly was not my intention. I've lost several people close to me from this war like most of you have, and the significance of these events have had profound impacts on my life.
The Haney's are in my family's prayers.
Thank you for saying that, apology accepted.
greenberetTFS
11-20-2010, 13:12
God Bless,Rest in Peace Warrior............:(
Big Teddy
Even more so, I apologize about my original statement in my initial post here.Regardless of the sincerity of the apology, folks, especially down range, tend to remember the initial affront longer and more profoundly...
A follow-up on the cause of CPT Haney's fatal crash. Was it pilot error or part of the flawed F-22 Raptor design?
Capt. Jeff "Bong" Haney was headed back to Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson in his F-22 Raptor fighter jet, ripping through the frigid Alaska night beyond the speed of sound at more than 1,000 mph, when things started going terribly wrong. Packed tight in cold-weather gear to protect him from the bitter temperatures, the Air Force pilot pulled back on the control stick at about 38,400 feet to gain altitude. Then Haney saw his plane was beginning to fail him.
A caution light glowed green through his night vision goggles, alerting him that a section of the aircraft was overheating. Almost instantly, the F-22's onboard computers detected an air leak in the engine bay and began automatic shutdown of various systems -- including the main oxygen supply.
Gasping for air, Haney set the throttles to idle and began lowering the plane to the snow-covered valley below. About 35 seconds later, Haney's plane began to roll upside down. He couldn't recover. There, amid the Talkeetna Mountains north of Anchorage, Haney, 31, crashed and died.
The crash was another grim episode for the controversial Lockheed Martin Corp.-made F-22 fighter jet that has been in service since 2005, yet never called into combat despite conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya.
The plane, the military's most expensive fighter jet, has continued to experience equipment problems -- notably with its oxygen systems.
New details from an Air Force report last week drew attention to the November 2010 crash and raised questions about the F-22 and the way the Air Force has dealt with the plane's ongoing oxygen problems.
Even before the fatal Alaska crash, pilots had made numerous complaints that the jet's oxygen systems weren't feeding them enough air -- which caused wooziness in flight. Because of this, the entire fleet of F-22s was grounded for nearly five months beginning in May. But even after the grounding was lifted, investigators still had no answers as to why the malfunctions occurred.
And since mid-September when the order was lifted, the Air Force said, 14 episodes have occurred in which pilots have experienced "physiological incidents" that may have been caused by a lack of oxygen. ADVERTISEMENT The Air Force has spent months addressing issues with the oxygen system with inspections, additional training and enhanced protective gear.
The Air Force also has a scientific advisory board and a safety investigation board studying the oxygen issues. The study was initially scheduled to conclude by November but now is expected to be finalized this winter.
"We continue to implement improvements to the aircraft's life support systems and are carefully collecting and analyzing operational, maintenance and physiological data for all Raptor flights," said Maj. Chad Steffey, an Air Force spokesman.
Experts had hoped that a yearlong investigation into the Alaska crash would provide new insights into the problems with the oxygen system. Instead, the Air Force concluded that Haney, one of its top pilots, was to blame because he was too distracted by his inability to breathe and should have engaged the F-22's emergency oxygen system.
Last week's report generated much debate over whether the Air Force turned Haney, an experienced and award-winning aviator, into a scapegoat to escape more criticism of the F-22.
Haney "most likely experienced a sense similar to suffocation," the report said. "This was likely (Haney's) first experience under such physiological duress."
To save himself and the plane, Haney should have leaned over and with a gloved hand pulled a silver-dollar-size green ring that was under his seat by his left thigh to engage the emergency system, the report said.
It takes 40 pounds of pull to engage the emergency system. That's a tall order for a man who has gone nearly a minute without a breath of air, speeding faster than sound, while wearing bulky weather gear, said Michael Barr, a former Air Force fighter pilot and former accident investigation officer.
"It would've taken superhuman efforts on the pilot's behalf to save that aircraft," he said. "The initial cause of this accident was a malfunction with the aircraft -- not the pilot."
Barr said the Air Force blamed Haney because the brass doesn't want more criticism of the F-22 program, which will cost an estimated $77 billion and whose need was called into question even before its first test flight.
"They've taken all the heat they want to," Barr said. "They paid a lot of money for an aircraft that doesn't work."
While every other warplane in the U.S. arsenal has been used to pummel targets in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, the Air Force's F-22s have sat idle -- used only in test missions. Even so, F-22 pilots have experienced seven major crashes with two deaths, including Haney's.
According to the Air Force, each of the sleek, diamond-winged aircraft cost $143 million. Counting upgrades, research and development costs, the U.S. Government Accountability Office estimates that each F-22 cost U.S. taxpayers $412 million.
Despite its problems, the plane is considered the most advanced fighter jet in the world. It has state-of-the-art engines with thrust-vectoring nozzles that can move up and down, making it exceptionally agile.
An F-22 can reach supersonic speeds without using afterburners, enabling it to fly faster and farther. It's also packed with cutting-edge radar and sensors, allowing a pilot to identify, track and shoot an enemy aircraft before that craft can detect the F-22. The Air Force says the aircraft is essential to maintain air dominance around the world.
Two decades ago, during the Cold War, the U.S. government planned to buy 648 of the fighters for $139 million apiece to battle enemy fighter jets in dogfights. But the government's order was repeatedly slashed until 2009, when then-Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates ended the purchase at 188 planes -- the last of which has rolled off Lockheed's assembly lines in Marietta, Ga. Lockheed would not comment for this article.
Previous oxygen systems in fighter jets used a separate bottle that fed air to pilots. In an F-22, the air intake system uses air from the jet engine's compressor section to supply oxygen for pilots.
Last week's report found that when the air intake system malfunctioned, the jet shut down multiple systems, including oxygen supply, to protect itself from further damage, as designed. Therefore, the oxygen system was not at fault, the Air Force said.
But the report did not say what caused Haney's F-22 to malfunction in the first place.
The accident investigation board "conducted a thorough investigation considering all possible causes of the mishap," Air Force spokesman Steffey said. "Due to the extensive damage and limited evidence recovered, the cause of the bleed air leak could not be determined."
Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2011/12/21/2227997/fatal-problems-plague-f-22-americas.html#storylink=misearch#storylink=cpy
CPT Haney was one of the country's best F-22 pilots and (to me) the design of the oxygen system seems terribly flawed, both in the main system and the back-up system, which Haney couldn't activate. RIP, Jeffrey Haney.
The Raptor is once again in the skies above Anchorage after their prolonged grounding, and I love seeing them there and hearing them roar by overhead. But at what cost?
Susan