Watch me stump AL!

[NousDefionsDoc]

I'm going to run off this plank and dive into shark-infested waters!

AL, who and how was the American zone drawn up for the occupation of Berlin after WWII?:munchin

[Roguish Lawyer]

My money is on AL. :cool:

[Team Sergeant]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
I'm going to run off this plank and dive into shark-infested waters!

AL, who and how was the American zone drawn up for the occupation of Berlin after WWII?:munchin



I bet AL will not only tell you who, but where, when and what they had for lunch after the meeting.
TS

[NousDefionsDoc]

O ye of little faith...

[Sacamuelas]

THUNDERDOME II
"Battle of wits"

Now THAT is a GIMME.... :p

[NousDefionsDoc]

I didn't mean to scare him away.:munchin LOL

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
I didn't mean to scare him away.:munchin LOL

I saw him starting a reply here for a while, then he left. I've seen it before. It means you are in for a lengthy and devastating response. You'd better start digging in, my friend. LOL

:munchin

[Air.177]

Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
You'd better start digging in, my friend. LOL

:munchin

Remember, It's not just a hole, It's a defensive position. LOL

[NousDefionsDoc]

Two sentences, that's all I need. The name, who he was and how he did it. Of course, I'm going by my source, so who knows. LOL

[Sacamuelas]

NDD.... you do know you are about to be.....

[NousDefionsDoc]

What's the matter with you? DAMN!

[DunbarFC]

I am so glad you are not my dentist




;)

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by DunbarFC
I am so glad you are not my dentist




;)

OMG, ROTFLMMFAO! ;)

[Sdiver]

:eek:

OMG....Please tell me that you don't have that pic in your office with a caption underneath that says...."I'll get that pesky Molar out !!!"

[Guy]

Originally posted by Sacamuelas
NDD.... you do know you are about to be.....

Sir:

When Jimbo or AL come out of the box...your internet connection better be FAST!

I've looked up words or phrases I have...no use for.:D

[Airbornelawyer]

Don't you people have anything better to do? I am jumping in and out of meetings today with pro bono clients, poor women from Brooklyn looking for help in realizing their small business dreams to escape a life of hopelessness.

[NousDefionsDoc]

Originally posted by Airbornelawyer
Don't you people have anything better to do? I am jumping in and out of meetings today with pro bono clients, poor women from Brooklyn looking for help in realizing their small business dreams to escape a life of hopelessness.

Gotcha!:lifter

[Air.177]

Originally posted by Airbornelawyer
Don't you people have anything better to do?

No, Not really.

[Sacamuelas]

Yeah, but I prefer this. :D

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by Airbornelawyer
Don't you people have anything better to do? I am jumping in and out of meetings today with pro bono clients, poor women from Brooklyn looking for help in realizing their small business dreams to escape a life of hopelessness.

:rolleyes: :boohoo

[Bravo1-3]

Originally posted by Airbornelawyer
I am jumping in and out of meetings today with pro bono clients, poor women from Brooklyn looking for help in realizing their small business dreams to escape a life of hopelessness.

Which begs the question: Were they DELIBERATE or INADVERTANT Pro Bono Clients?

I could understand short meetings with the inadvertant ones to say "Hey, give me my F'n money!" But the deliberate ones... isn't that just part of the daily schedule? :D :rolleyes:

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by Bravo1-3
Which begs the question: Were they DELIBERATE or INADVERTANT Pro Bono Clients?

I could understand short meetings with the inadvertant ones to say "Hey, give me my F'n money!" But the deliberate ones... isn't that just part of the daily schedule? :D :rolleyes:

FWIW, if he's doing pro bono work today, he really is tied up. Not the sort of thing you can just schedule quickly to avoid answering a tough question.

NDD, although I admit some concern that you may win this one, I'm keeping my money on AL getting an answer by end of the day tomorrow. Shall we make this interesting?

[NousDefionsDoc]

Interesting how?

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Interesting how?

A bet.

[NousDefionsDoc]

Stakes?

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Stakes?

I want a bottle of the best tequila they make down there (or other liquor if they don't make good tequila) if I win.

[NousDefionsDoc]

No Tequila, Aguardiente

[NousDefionsDoc]

You already PMd him to see if he found the answer yet, didn't you?

[Airbornelawyer]

Pro bono clients like this often take forever because you have to explain everything. One is a woman living in the projects trying to start a mail order company. With a typical corporate client, you might start talking about the advantages of an LLC over an S Corp. With her, you first had to explain what an LLC was, what limited liability means in concrete terms, etc. Your typical corporate client is already intimately familiar with the concept of double taxation, but here you have to start from the beginning.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
No Tequila, Aguardiente

OK, and if you win, what do you want? No, I did not cheat.

[NousDefionsDoc]

I have no idea...LOL

[Airbornelawyer]

But back to the original question. I am not entirely certain I follow the question, but there is no simple two-sentence answer.

First off, despite the rantings of some conspiracy theorists, it was not George Kennan who proposed the plan for postwar occupation zones that placed Berlin as an enclave inside the Soviet zone. That was a British plan, presented to the European Advisory Commission in January 1944, to the utter surprise of John G. Winant, US Ambassador to the UK and US representative on the EAC. Apparently, the UK and USSR sandbagged the USA, as the UK proposal was almost immediately accepted by the Soviets. A US counterproposal placed the line on the edge of Berlin, but left the city in the Soviet Zone. Kennan did counsel that the Soviets wouldn't accept this, since it pushed the line deep into the territory they and the British had already accepted. The counterproposal went nowhere, as did US efforts to get the northwestern zone, with the Ruhr industrial region and Germany's major ports, to be the US zone.

On June 1, 1944, a draft Protocol on occupation zones was circulated by the EAC. On July 1, the Soviets proposed amending it to divide Berlin into zones as well, based on the existing administrative districts of Greater Berlin (Greater Berlin had been divided into 20 administrative districts in 1920).

In the Protocol of September 12, 1944, the Allied representatives agreed: The Berlin area (by which expression is understood the territory of "Greater Berlin" as defined by the law of the 27th April 1920) will be jointly occupied with by the armed force of the U.S.S.R., U.K. and U.S.A. assigned by the respective Commanders-in-Chief. For this purpose the territory of "Greater Berlin" will be divided into the following three parts:

North-Eastern part of "Greater Berlin" (districts of Pankow, Prenzlauerberg, Mitte, Weissensee, Friedrichshain, Lichtenberg, Treptow, Kopenick) will be occupied by the forces of the U.S.S.R.:

North-Western part of "Greater Berlin" (districts of Reinickendorf, Wedding, Tiergarten, Charlottenberg, Spandau, Wilmersdorf, will be occupied by the forces of ________

Southern part of "Greater Berlin" (districts of Zehlendorf, Steglitz, Schoneberg, Kreuzberg, Tempelhof, Neukolln) will be occupied by the forces of ________

The boundaries of districts within Greater Berlin referred to in the forgoing descriptions, are those which existed after the coming into effect of the decree published on 27th March, 1938 (Amtsblatt der Reichshauptstadt Berlin No. 13 of 27th March, 1938, page 215).The two blanks were because the US and the UK couldn't agree on who would get which sector. This and other contentious issues were soon resolved. By an Amendment dated November 14, 1944, in the first blank above, "the United Kingdom" was inserted, giving British forces control of the North-Western sector, and in the second blank, "the United States of America" was inserted, giving the US control of the Southern sector. The Sept. 12 Protocol was signed by Amb. Winant for the USA, Sir William Strang for the UK, and Ambassador Fyodor T. Gusev for the USSR. The Nov. 14 Amendment was signed by Philip E. Mosely for the USA, Strang for the UK, and Gusev for the USSR.

Subsequently, in 1945, the Protocol was further amended to allocate two districts from the UK sector as the French sector.

So, the "who" and "how" is (a) the German officials who drew up the 1920 administrative districts of Greater Berlin, (b) the Russian (Gusev or an advisor) who allocated the 20 districts among the three powers (but without designating which group of districts would be the American sector) and (c) Winant and Mosely, who accepted the Southern sector for the US. Somehow I don't think that is the answer you were looking for though.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
I have no idea...LOL

Roll of cope? Bottle of bourbon?

[Bravo1-3]

Originally posted by Airbornelawyer
Pro bono clients like this often take forever because you have to explain everything. One is a woman living in the projects trying to start a mail order company. With a typical corporate client, you might start talking about the advantages of an LLC over an S Corp. With her, you first had to explain what an LLC was, what limited liability means in concrete terms, etc. Your typical corporate client is already intimately familiar with the concept of double taxation, but here you have to start from the beginning.

The new job has me working for an office that gets a lot of these types of clients for representation. The court also sends anyone who elects to be Pro Se to us before they can file their motions or answers.

But we have another type of Pro Bono client, which is the inadvertant type I was referring to. "Well, he said he had the money!" :D

[Roguish Lawyer]

Damn it, AL, can't you see we're trying to make a wager here? LOL

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by Bravo1-3
But we have another type of Pro Bono client, which is the inadvertant type I was referring to. "Well, he said he had the money!" :D

Teach your employer a new word:

RETAINER!

LOL

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
No Tequila, Aguardiente

What is the best brand? Blanco Madero? Cristal?

[NousDefionsDoc]

Here is what I have:

"With a fellow officer from the Geographic Section, he helped prepare for the European Advisory Commission a plan for the zonal administration of Berlin, and in so doing made one of his enduring contributions to German history: 'I pointed to the Grunewald and Dahlem area on the map and jokingly said, "This is where my relations had houses, this ought to be the American section."' The lines they drew have stood ever since."

[NousDefionsDoc]

Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
What is the best brand? Blanco Madero? Cristal?

Cristal or Nectar

[pulque]

Originally posted by Airbornelawyer
Don't you people have anything better to do? I am jumping in and out of meetings today with pro bono clients, poor women from Brooklyn looking for help in realizing their small business dreams to escape a life of hopelessness.

Do you work for Grameen USA? Grameen's microloan recovery rate is 98.69% and 96% of their borrowers are women. :cool:

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by pulque
Do you work for Grameen USA? Grameen's microloan recovery rate is 98.69% and 96% of their borrowers are women. :cool:

Sounds like someone should sue them for sex discrimination. :D :lifter

[pulque]

Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Sounds like someone should sue them for sex discrimination. :D :lifter

Males in the places Grameen operates are probaby too proud to apply for a loan.

PS, "Grameen Bank does not require any collateral against its micro-loans. Since the bank does not wish to take any borrower to the court of law in case of non-repayment, it does not require the borrowers to sign any legal instrument." :D

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by pulque
Males in the places Grameen operates are probaby too proud to apply for a loan.

PS, "Grameen Bank does not require any collateral against its micro-loans. Since the bank does not wish to take any borrower to the court of law in case of non-repayment, it does not require the borrowers to sign any legal instrument." :D

Commie men-haters

[Airbornelawyer]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Here is what I have:

"With a fellow officer from the Geographic Section, he helped prepare for the European Advisory Commission a plan for the zonal administration of Berlin, and in so doing made one of his enduring contributions to German history: 'I pointed to the Grunewald and Dahlem area on the map and jokingly said, "This is where my relations had houses, this ought to be the American section."' The lines they drew have stood ever since." Assuming you are talking about an American, he didn't choose the actual zones - the Russians did that - but he may have been the one that got us to put our country in the Southern sector blank. Of course, since we also got the Southern sector of Germany proper (which we didn't want), I think a less folkloric explanation is likely, if not as interesting.

This, BTW, was the US counterproposal from early 1944:

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by Airbornelawyer
First off, despite the rantings of some conspiracy theorists, it was not George Kennan who proposed the plan for postwar occupation zones that placed Berlin as an enclave inside the Soviet zone.

Absolutely right. If anyone wants more info on Kennan, lemmie know. Wrote a paper back in high school on how Kennan affected Truman Doctrine (and later how that would eventually lead to NSC-68).

[NousDefionsDoc]

German emigree

Felix Gilbert

[Solid]

Jimbo-
I've asked this before, but I don't think you responded to the thread. Was NSC-68 advocating solely containment or also active attempts of supremacy on the behalf of the US?

Just curious,
Thanks,

Solid

[Jimbo]

Containment.

[DoctorDoom]

x

[NousDefionsDoc]

Yes. Sorry I didn't see this before.

I declare myself the winner. :lifter