Imlarm

[JGarcia]

Has anyone ever been to this school IMLARM (http://www.drum.army.mil/lightfitr/imlarm.htm) Its not in ATRSS, I would like to be able to send a couple of our Soldiers to this course. What do you gents think of the sylabus?

How important do you think a good body position is in mout? In the infantry we practice alot of 4 man room clearing, but I think that not enough time is spent teaching a man to properly walk with his assigned weapon during the fight. I've seen guys doing their own version of the high carry, and it looks as though they are getting ready to shoot some olympic match the way their body is curved, elbows all tucked into the side etc.

I am thinking of using some tape and marking out a square on the drill floor, having my guys go round that square a bunch, not doing any shooting, just practicing proper movement with gear. Any ideas on the subject?

[Guy]

"Lead/move with the eyes...not the weapon".;)

[Sinister]

It is a 10th Mountain Division School, so you don't need an ATRRS slot. The 101st will run their equivalent IMPACT Course next month at Campbell.

The syllabus covers everything from CQC, use of night vision/night engagement equipment, and precision (Known Distance) shooting.

You can get a copy of AIMSS syllabus (on CD) covering CQB direct from the Infantry School (2-29 Infantry) by writing Commander, 2-29 Inf, USAIS, Ft. Benning, GA 31905.

You need to know what the heck you're supposed to be teaching before you train troops and try it live-fire.

If you need either CQC or long-range M16/M4 Designated Marksman training call the US Army Marksmanship Unit at (706) 545-7841.

[JGarcia]

Thanks for the good advice Sinister. Is that the same training that is covered in FM 3-22.9 chapter 7? Or do you think the AIMSS, IMPACT, IMLARM, courses will offer better training results?

[Sinister]

Having a trained Instructor who can help you lay out training (the stuff that's not in the FM, but rather in lesson plans, rehearsals, and experience ganied from repetitive live fires, and to avoid accidents) has a certain value all its own.

The AIMSS, IMLARM, and IMPACT are all the same POIs from the FM. The AIMSS has a lot more detail and photos on how to set up the AN/PEQ-2 and other strap-on gear.

Nobody at Benning besides the AMU teaches how to shoot KD from position (standing, sitting, kneeling, etc).

[The Reaper]

Good to see you in here, Sinister!

Thanks for the informed input.

TR

[JGarcia]

82nd CQM (https://call2.army.mil/startdownload.asp?vpath=/protectedfiles/call/ctcask/Documents/MREdocs) FM 3-22.9 (http://atiam.train.army.mil/portal/atia/adlsc/view/public/297091-1/fm/3-22.9/toc.htm) AIMSS SRM ppt Brief (http://www.infantry.army.mil/29thInf/AIMSS%20DISK/SRM%20briefing/srm1.ppt) RTC 350-1-2 AMT material (http://www.rand.org/publications/CF/CF162/CF162.appp.pdf)


All concerned,
I have looked at the AIMSS POI, as well a RTC 350-1-2 AMT briefing, and 82nd ABN OPD CQM POI, including the instruction outllined in the FM.

The material prescribes the same training. Teaching marksmanship fundamentals first, stressing the pay off of dime and washer drills, high ready low ready, controlled pairs, etc. There are really good descriptive photos and written paragraphs concerning stance, sight alignment, and so on. Good strong training.

But its my opinion that there is not enough of that same good training in a description of walking and shooting training. The sources I have mentioned all call for the soldiers to shoot at targets while walking when the soldiers shoot at the CQM range, but there is no POI for walking and shooting. In other words, we train the marksmanship fundamentals, teach a good body position, teach the low ready, and then send joe snuffy down range telling him not to stop walking but just engage the targets at less than 10 M. I think that HOW he walks is as important in CQM as is a good body position in BRM.

I think that there should be some firing tables that involve walking forwards, backwards, and laterally. Again this is not in the AIMSS, RTC 350-1-2 AMT, the FM, or the 82nd's CQM training brief I saw.

Also, perhaps my search powers are inadequate, but I did not find any mention of the M249 firing on a CQM range. Certainly the AR is included in the 4 man team that enters and clears the room, however he doesnt go to shoot any CQM ranges. Infact most of the time the SAW will train at separate ranges than the rest of his team mates. And then without any CQM training we throw him in the stack and tell him to clear a room with his fire team.

My question is do any of you have ANY additional training material concerning walking and shooting or training material for the M249 during CQM?

Thanks for your comments. if you do not wish to respond in a public forum you can email me at: jose.a.garcia1@us.army.mil

[Team Sergeant]

Joe,
I’ve cleared rooms with submachine guns, assault rifles and pistols. I can’t say I’ve cleared them with a M249. I’m thinking you’re not going to get a lot of answers on here on room clearing with a light machine gun, not that’s it’s a bad idea, its just we utilize more discriminate fires when room clearing.
TS

[Razor]

Maybe the SAW gunner pulls rear/outside security and you clear with a 3 man team?

[JGarcia]

As part of the fire team the SAW gunner would enter the room with the fire team, whilst the other fire team continues to isolate the BLDG, by providing a base of fire, at least thats how I've always been taught.

That being the case I prefer to have the SAW gunner enter as the #3 man, but the SAW gunners position in the stack varies from Squad to Squad depending on what Division, Battalion, and Company you are in.

I just want to get some POI for that SAW gunner. We shoot all of his qualification ranges from the prone, then expect him to enter and clear rooms with his fire team. Perhaps the best answer is to task organize and leave both SAWs with the trailing fire team to isolate the building, while placing one of the riflemen who would normally be in the SBF fire team with the assault fire team. I dunno. :rolleyes:

I would prefer to keep fire team integrity, that allows me to plan to leap frog fire teams from one room to the next.

There needs to be some training for SRM, CQM, whichever you would like to call it today, for the SAW gunner. And there is also a need for instruction concerning the most effective techniques for shooting while walking (forwards, backwards, and laterally).

I realize that this is an Infantry topic, and I understand that I might seem like a pesky bug, coming in here and cluttering up your board with this stuff, I just thought that we are all soldiers, and I could call on my big brothers in SF for some wisdom on the topic. Sorry if I am bugging you. Keep in mind that whatever info you share with me WILL be passed on and taught.

Thanks.

[Razor]

Reorganizing teams can be a hassle, but remember you're asking the advice of guys specializing in all things unconventional. Also consider the operational environment. Do the structures you'll most likely be clearing normally have enough room for a 4-man team, or would you be better using 2- or 3-man teams? If you're truly attempting to use discriminate fire during entry, do all your SAW gunners have the ability to a) control the gun's bursts, and b) transition from target to target quickly (a SAW is a bit heavier and longer than an M4, remember)? Don't forget the SAW operates from the open-bolt position, which could lead to a significant emotional event should it go "ka-chunk" as your gunner tries to engage a bad guy shortly after clearing the door. If your men are using the 200-rd plastic drum during room clearing, its a disaster waiting to happen. If you're using 100-rd assault bags, you still run the risk of having the belt snag on something as you negotiate through a building. Magazines would be the best solution, but they increase the weapon's width, again making tight maneuvering awkward.

Given all the disadvantages, I'd probably task organize as you mentioned and create an assault team and SBF team for clearing buildings, despite the headache involved, or keep the SAW as rear/local security for the 3-man clearing team. I'd hate to be the bad guy that runs down a hallway/alley being covered by a belt-fed machine gun.

[JGarcia]

You have me appropriately refocused. We have the 100rd pack a-plenty in Oregon, but I hadnt considered some of the disadvantages you mentioned with the SAW. I does then make sense to task organize, leaving one team leader a grenadier and two SAWs as the trail fire team, ( I prefer to think of them this way as opposed to SBF. SBF is for weapons squad). Sometimes I get so wrapped around the axle as a squad leader I forget about the rest of the platoon. I think thats because we did very little platoon ops in Iraq, it was mostly squad ops with the other squads spread waaaay the hell out. like 3 to 4 klicks, (we were in hummers)

[The Reaper]

Make him the breacher, and give him a short shotgun (he doesn't have to hump it, just hand it to him as required).

After the breach, he covers the rear of the team.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR