ISLAM: Relion of Peace?

[Thomas Paine]

Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Douglas Murray destroy their opponents in a debate on whether or not Islam is the religion of peace.

DEBATE VIDEO:
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/204459.php

EMBED CODE (for those who want to add to their blogs)
<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/15646170" width="400" height="265" frameborder="0"></iframe><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/15646170">ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/think2twice">Intelligence Squared US</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

[rdret1]

That was an excellent debate. Both sides made some really good points. I think the women, both Ms. Ali and Ms. Kahn, were slower to get there, making a few missteps in the beginning. I must say, I found Mr. Nawaz to be the most eloquent of the lot. He and Mr. Murray both made their points quite well.

I took exception to Ms. Ali's statement that " all monotheistic religions are violent." Mr. Nawaz was very good here, saying that she was failing to contextualize the examples she was using. Here, I think he was correct. Most modern religions have had very violent histories. That does not mean that they are inherently violent. The Bible has many violent passages. Most of them are in the Old Testament during the enslavement and escape from slavery of the Jews.

The question the debate brought to my mind was; is there a divide between Muslims who have left the middle east and have been exposed to western successes and philosophies, and those who are deeply rooted in their own countries? If not, then why does an entire country, Iran for example, allow themselves to be ruled by those such as Ayatollah Khomeini in the 70's and the current regime? Can it be equated to the same psychological and economic breakdown that allowed Hitler and the Nazis to drag Germany into WWII?

[bluebb]

Excellent debate. This is how to do it.

Blue

[T-Rock]

Thanks for posting Mr. Paine.

Awesome debate, more like these need to follow IMHO...nevertheless, hindsight following debate is 20/20 :D

Someone should have pointed out to Maajid that Ibn Taymiyyah shows that Jihad isn't a modern phenomenon...
http://hss.fullerton.edu/comparative/jihad_relmora.pdf

On the question who speaks for Islam? Who is a true Muslim?

YUSUFALI: Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.
PICKTHAL: Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much.
SHAKIR: Certainly you have in the Messenger of Allah an excellent exemplar for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much.
(Sura 33:21)


What I thought could have been pointed out is that Muhammad is actually the primary spokesman for Islam, and that he didn't really twist the faith...


Referencing Pew Polls would have been interesting if they had been used to bolster the side of the anti-Jihadists...

Although the majority of Muslims live peacefully throughout the world and do not condone violent acts, polls indicate many Muslims support Islamic groups that attack the Kafir in America. Just as an example (Pew Research), 38% of Moroccans support groups that attack Americans, 66% of Egyptians support groups that attack Americans, 15% of Pakistanis support groups that attack Americans, and 24% of Indonesians support groups that attack Americans, and out of these groups, most express strong support for expanding the role of Sharia - requiring the strict application of Sharia - over 70% of most polled and over 53% in Indonesia.

Is Sharia peaceful?

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:GqUs-0QUn38J:www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/apr07/START_Apr07_rpt.pdf+Less+than+10%25+overall+indica te+that+they+disagree+strongly+with+a+strict+appli cation+of+sharia+(World+Public+Opinion).&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShHubLU5F_C9kVu-iZn6q15xeeLCMRzKpG-v1ZxBf1dTDV57p0oW1rDoMWomdsWJ43h_vUmF2Dt0FmQcSBmvS KCLMB_4QM4_sxCcKL4kPg_i7zHS4oCO7gskD6ItG6Is8dq9B_1&sig=AHIEtbQDeptjMDP85OEJX1HDE99RRo-qVw



Even in the UK, roughly 40% of Muslims polled actually condone violent acts to further the cause of Islam.. :(

ETA

(Part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W0rGaLdcA4

(Part 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUuih-7hP8o

(Part 3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq1ZZ3ZpHj0&feature=related

(Part 4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CQ9H_qmEIE&feature=related

(Part 5)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwbf5JCSTzs&feature=related

:munchin

[Nightfall]

I haven't seen it posted, but it is a Navy Vet Muslim who started to wonder where all the "moderate" Muslims are and why they don't stand up and be heard - worth a watch:

Part 1 of 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZHnfFLZ9XU
Part 2 of 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbnaWpSS8Dk&feature=related
Part 3 of 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1d0Lx8MPtI&feature=related
Part 4 of 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZdhKcFk5vg&feature=related

Thought it was relevant. YMMV