View Full Version : CNBC'S REMINGTON UNDER FIRE
Team Sergeant
10-11-2010, 08:40
This should be interesting:
CNBC'S REMINGTON UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION Will Premiere On Wednesday, October 20th at 9PM ET
Published: Wednesday, 29 Sep 2010 | 10:45 AM ET Text Size By: Jennifer Dauble
The show will repeat that evening at 10PM ET, 12AM ET and 1AM ET.
The documentary will also repeat on the following dates/times:
Sunday, October 24th at 10PM ET
Thursday, October 28th at 8PM ET and 12AM ET
Sunday, October 31st at 1AM ET
The result of a 10-month investigation, CNBC examines allegations that the world's most popular hunting rifle is prone to firing without pulling the trigger, and that its manufacturer, Remington, has been aware of the situation for 60 years. Dozens of deaths and scores of injuries have been traced to the alleged problem. The story is told through corporate insiders, internal documents dating back to 1945, and a father searching for answers about the death of his nine-year-old son.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/39383236
The Reaper
10-11-2010, 08:55
Well, looks like the anti-gunners at CNBC may be able to put another evil gun maker out of business.
Right in accordance with their goals.
Make some lawyers rich at the same time, which is always a good thing, right?
Never had one go off while the safety was on, but I sure have had some not fire when I forgot to take the safety off. Always embarassing to get that "Aw Shit!" moment. I am sure that no one else has had that happen to them.
Anyone tell me how many firearms safety rules you have violated to kill another human being with a firearm, even if the mechanical safety fails?
BTW, anyone know why a precision rifle comes with an eight pound trigger, which you are strongly discouraged/admonished/prevented from adjusting?
TR
Discussion on the issues in this forum...
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=5093346#post5093346
And the 'sharks' smell blood and begin circling...
http://www.monttla.com/MT/index.cfm?event=showPage&pg=news
Richard :munchin
Anyone tell me how many firearms safety rules you have violated to kill another human being with a firearm, even if the mechanical safety fails?
TR
I think that says it all. :lifter
Justinmd
10-11-2010, 15:03
This is a pretty old issue, in fact, Rem recalled an entire model for a similar problem. The issue is that the safety selector only acts as a sear block, not a firing pin block. From what I understand, sometimes loose tolerances may allow for a missed handoff of the sear from the safety to the trigger when flicking from "safe" to "fire". There were a bunch of lawsuits in the 80's/90's. A google search will turn up a ton of info.
Justin
Iraqgunz
10-11-2010, 18:06
I am sure that the lawyers are creaming themselves right now at the thought of the potential lawsuits they will bring forth. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns into a class action suit.
The Reaper makes an exceptionally valid point. If you don't violate firearms safety rules the chances of something happening are drastically reduced.
This is a pretty old issue, in fact.I have a 700 BDL LH that will occassionally fire when I take off the safety...to amplify what TR said, I've always had the weapon pointed up and down range, in the direction of the intended target...took it to a gunsmith (bought the gun used), problem hasn't popped up in awhile.
CNBC has proven to be one of the most liberal if the liberal news shows. The anti-gunners are desperate to find an issue that they may actually be able to do something with. As has been noted, this is an old issue that Remington made recalls for years ago. It might be interesting to watch to see how they spin it though.
Watched it last night, and the information was presented in such a biased way it was sickening.
I am sure there are several members here that have gone through sniper training, is this really as common as was portrayed last night?
I really liked the part whent the so called expert witness/ gun guru explained how there isn't really such a thing as a safe direction to point a loaded gun :rolleyes::confused:
Well I guess that means its ok to go ahead and point a loaded weapon at another person....:boohoo
I have a 700 BDL LH that will occassionally fire when I take off the safety...to amplify what TR said, I've always had the weapon pointed up and down range, in the direction of the intended target...took it to a gunsmith (bought the gun used), problem hasn't popped up in awhile.
Still thats pretty messed up. It fires when you engage the Safety. How did Remington not see this.
I have a 700 BDL LH that will occassionally fire when I take off the safety...
Send it back. They have been talking about this for 20+ yrs. They have a fix, I suspect it's FREE...
Blitzzz (RIP)
10-21-2010, 19:16
I can't attest to this problem as I never use the safety. When I load it I shoot it. If I'm not shooting it, It's not loaded.
I guess I should take it to the range and use the safety a bit just to see.
I don't hunt so am not likely to be walking around with it loaded.
lonewolf726
10-22-2010, 05:34
The whole gist of the show was Remington DID see it but ingored it and some people have died due to the design flaw. The designer was interviewed and said they knew about it in 1948 and he designed a fix that same year. The new x-mark trigger is the same design he came up with in 1948. Ill let everyone here make their own decision about who was responsable for what.
People have not died due to the design flaw, but because some people decided not to follow the rules of firearms safety. And now they want to put the blame on someone other than themselves.
I am willing to bet my very last dollar that every one of these cases of AD was due to either lack of mantinence or someone who did not know what they are doing adjusting the trigger.
Remington has been using the X-Mark trigger on all their 700-series rifles for years now.
mark46th
10-22-2010, 14:45
"People have not died due to the design flaw, but because some people decided not to follow the rules of firearms safety. And now they want to put the blame on someone other than themselves." Lone Wolf
Exactly. The Left makes a living by telling people they are not responsible for their own actions.
mark46th
10-22-2010, 17:19
FWIW- I own a Rem 700 in .308, my son the same. Never a problem with an accidental discharge...
The Reaper
10-22-2010, 18:21
Just to review:
1. Treat every firearm as if it were loaded.
2. Never allow the muzzle to point at anything you are not willing to see destroyed.
3. Be sure of your target and know what lies beyond it.
4. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are aligned on target.
Looks like a clear violation of #1, 2, and 3, and possibly 4.
TR
DanteCarberelo
11-06-2010, 16:28
I saw this as a response to the CNBC report, Thought you would all enjoy it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YFIwoZsWHk
I saw this as a response to the CNBC report, Thought you would all enjoy it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YFIwoZsWHk
No wonder their so called "expert witness" said what he did. He makes 50% of his income by lying for anti-gun attorneys!
oksooner
11-30-2010, 16:00
I thought it was a biased but pretty interesting story. Just kind crazy how the beloved Remington 700 has a potentially fatal design flaw that Remington has tried to hide when it could of fixed the problem from the get go.
Just to review:
1. Treat every firearm as if it were loaded.
2. Never allow the muzzle to point at anything you are not willing to see destroyed.
3. Be sure of your target and know what lies beyond it.
4. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are aligned on target.
Looks like a clear violation of #1, 2, and 3, and possibly 4.
TR
You just nailed it.
No gun should fire when you put the safety on. If it does, and the company knew about it, they are liable.
Divemaster
01-18-2012, 16:39
Talk about resurrecting an old thread...but
When I was on the committee, this did happen to me. In the early 90s we were up at Camp Butler for an NRA across the course match. I was firing from the prone, using iron sights on my work M24. At one point during a string I chambered a round (weapon off safe) and as I closed the bolt the weapon fired. This was in front of plenty of witnesses to include other SOTIC instructors. Was my finger on the trigger? Nope. I'm a lefty and I was reaching over the rifle to manipulate the bolt (try it if you're having trouble picturing this). My right hand was in a shooting glove and held tight against the front of the stock by my shooting sling. This was the only time this ever happened to me in spite of shooting dozens of M24s and Rem 700s, including a 700 I have owned since 1985. BUT, this did happen and the news story rang true with me.
Guymullins
01-19-2012, 13:48
I have owned a heavy barrel Remington from their custom shop in .375 H&H Magnum. Using this rifle for about 20 years, I have never had an AD despite a few weeks a year of hunting. I never use the safety catch. The bolt is either hanging open when in or on a vehicle or in the company of others, or the rifle is ready to shoot with just a squeeze of the trigger. I dont like the safety on the 700 as it is stiff and noisy, so I dont use it.
If the 700 trigger is periodically flushed out and lubed it works just fine unless somone wth a screwdriver has decided he was a gunsmith. Problems I have seen are invariably lack of maintenance or improperly adjusted triggers.
Marines have been using M700/M40 triggers since 1968...
MVP
longrange1947
01-20-2012, 15:19
If the 700 trigger is periodically flushed out and lubed it works just fine unless somone wth a screwdriver has decided he was a gunsmith. Problems I have seen are invariably lack of maintenance or improperly adjusted triggers.
Marines have been using M700/M40 triggers since 1968...
MVP
MVP, you hit it on the head. I have been around 700s for few years and the only reson for slam fires and guns going off when the safty is disengaged is poor maintenance and the "Golden Screwdriver". Teh idiot female that shot her kid admitted that the trigger had been "worked on". Well DUUUUH!!
Divemaster, bet you had not flushed out the sear area for a while had you? :munchin
That is the biggest cause of slam fires in the course.
Divemaster
01-20-2012, 16:14
Divemaster, bet you had not flushed out the sear area for a while had you? :munchin
That is the biggest cause of slam fires in the course.
This was shortly before we hired you on to reminisce about starting the course. Therefore, I blame you for not already being there to make sure I did that.
P.S.- thanks again for the tour of the new Range 37 back in '10.
longrange1947
01-20-2012, 17:49
This was shortly before we hired you on to reminisce about starting the course. Therefore, I blame you for not already being there to make sure I did that.
P.S.- thanks again for the tour of the new Range 37 back in '10.
Enjoyed it. I like the direction Range 37 has taken over the last several years and the advances it has made with the ranges, curriculum, and instructor quality.
My days there are over and I no longer reminisce about helping to start the course. :D