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MVP
10-05-2010, 12:37
Did anyone who was awarded this wing in Brindisi ever get an exact translation. As I recall the French Liaison to DA at the time circa 1995 said it was an unauthorized badge.

MVP

JJ_BPK
10-05-2010, 15:57
A little help,, There is a thread in MP.net,, with 1100++ posts on "World Airborne Wings". There are several serious collectors with mega-collections that may know.. If you're not a member, I'll post a Q for you. Do you have a bigger pic??

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?147395-World-Airborne-Wings&highlight=jump+wings

Stras
10-06-2010, 00:49
Did anyone who was awarded this wing in Brindisi ever get an exact translation. As I recall the French Liaison to DA at the time circa 1995 said it was an unauthorized badge.

MVP

It's the French Commando Badge, and as such we weren't authorized it for just a jump with them. I don't believe its authorized for wear in AR 670-1 either, but thats never stopped us.;)

From what I recall, the certificate said that we participated in an airborne operation with the French Commandos.

My stuff is still enroute, now that I know some decent french speakers, I'll get it translated again.

MVP
10-20-2010, 11:16
JJ BPK,

Yes please ask.

Stras,

I found a reference on the internet and the folks here who translated it said we are authorized. We made the required 2 jumps. Using Google to trnalate the French text I found for the award makes absolutely no sense. Google has no military vocabulary, I'm sure everyone understands if they have ever had to use a non-military type translator...

MVP

JJ_BPK
10-20-2010, 11:43
JJ BPK,

Yes please ask.

Stras,

I found a reference on the internet and the folks here who translated it said we are authorized. We made the required 2 jumps. Using Google to trnalate the French text I found for the award makes absolutely no sense. Google has no military vocabulary, I'm sure everyone understands if they have ever had to use a non-military type translator...

MVP

OK, Did you jump in Brindisi Italy with French Commando's??
I need more context..
Confused??

Stras
10-20-2010, 15:17
OK, Did you jump in Brindisi Italy with French Commando's??
I need more context..
Confused??

JJ_BK,
yes, we made the two jumps with the French Commandos in Brindisi, Italy while we were all pulling CSAR support for Operation PROVIDE PROMISE.

We jumped on Tori Veneri DZ in 1994, from I believe a French Puma, but I have to recheck my jump log.

JJ_BPK
10-21-2010, 06:08
Received a reply..

I copied the first part of the link. It would appear that the "Brevet d'Infanterie de l'Air" is the entry or lowest level of jump qual??

Here it is! I don't speak french very well ...but it is a badge for who made two jump tests. It isnt the military qualification badge..

http://www.fusilier-commando-air.fr/17.html


Insignes Parachutistes
Brevet Parachutiste d'Infanterie de l'Air

Brevet d'Infanterie de l'Air
créé en 1936

Insigne en tissu du Brevet de Parachutiste de l’Armée de l’Air :

Il est créé en 1936 et porté par le personnel de l’Infanterie de l’Air de 1937 à 1940 composée des 601 et 602ème G.I.A. L’insigne est repris par le R.C.P. jusqu’en 1946. Le port en est réglementé par un certificat ; L’insigne est brodé en argent, les ailes et l’étoile en fils dorés.

Il est important de souligner que par décision ministérielle n°349/EMGA/35 du 31 juillet 1945, l’Armée de l’Air « cède » ses Troupes AéroPortées à l’Armée de Terre. (Source UNP)

Insigne Sauts de Motivation.

Les Fusiliers Commandos de l’Air et les Conducteurs de Chiens Engagés (MTA) non susceptibles de d’obtenir le Brevet Militaire de Parachutisme, peuvent effectuer deux Sauts de Motivation. Ce personnel doit être apte médicalement et avoir reçu l’Instruction adaptée à ce type de Saut.

A l’issue des épreuves au sol et en vol, il se voit attribuer un Insigne métallique et un certificat délivré par le Commandant de l’Escadron de Formation des Fusiliers Commandos de l’Air (E.F.C.A.).

http://www.commando-air.fr/6.html





Can't help with the French translations,, mine stops at:

Voulez-vous coucher avec moi

:D

Richard
10-21-2010, 07:25
Briefly, according to the posted blurb and my limited French, it's a badge for members of Les Fusiliers Commandos de l’Air et les Conducteurs de Chiens Engagés (MTA) who - for whatever reason are healthy but cannot get scheduled for the normal airborne training course - can be allowed by the unit to make two parachute jumps 'for motivation' and then are awarded this badge and a certificate.

Richard :munchin

JJ_BPK
10-21-2010, 07:34
who - for whatever reason
are healthy but cannot get scheduled for the normal airborne training course,
can be allowed by the unit to make two parachute jumps for motivation,
and then are awarded this badge and a certificate.

Strange???

Richard
10-21-2010, 07:39
Strange???

Well...it is French and some sort of unit tradition going back to 1936...:rolleyes:

I think I'd rather wear my old 'Johnson-Humphrey' campaign button. :p

Richard :munchin

skylinedrive
10-21-2010, 09:29
Richard provided a correct translation!

More or less it would read:

The Air Commando Riflemen and the Canine Operators that are non eligible to obtain the military parachutist brevet, can make two motivational jumps. This personnel must be medically suitable and must be given appropriated training to this form of jump.

After the tests on the ground and in the air have been concluded a metal insigna and a diploma, signed by the commander of the air commando riflemen training wing, is bestowed on the candidate.


My take would be that it was originally meant to give support personnel working with the CPA, who don't get slot for ETAP the chance to get a "kind" of jump wings.

MVP
10-25-2010, 14:47
Got to admit it is one unusual wing.

MVP

orko
11-05-2010, 10:59
It may be on the list of wings we are authorized to accept, but not authorized to wear.

Richard
11-05-2010, 11:51
It may be on the list of wings we are authorized to accept, but not authorized to wear.

FWIW - we were 'officially' issued our Italian wings (pic) by the Folgore Brigade when working in the Med with their SF but wore the Italian SF wings (which were 'unofficial' even in the Italian army but had been given to us by the Col Moschin Cdr) because they were lighter, better looking, and nobody in PAC knew the difference as the certificate/translation in our 201 files merely stated "Italian Parachutist Badge"...but don't tell anyone. ;)

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

Stras
11-05-2010, 12:17
It's the French Commando Badge, and as such we weren't authorized it for just a jump with them. I don't believe its authorized for wear in AR 670-1 either, but thats never stopped us.;)

From what I recall, the certificate said that we participated in an airborne operation with the French Commandos.

My stuff is still enroute, now that I know some decent french speakers, I'll get it translated again.

MVP, can you send me a copy of your certificate? due to a slight problem last week, mine is not available for consultation.

Bartsf
12-11-2010, 12:58
Anyone remember the company commander that gave the blood wings to the French commandos? They jumped with us first...and he slammed our wings into their chests. Then... We jumped with them. Payback was hell. If you have the badge you know what I mean. It's a broach pin on the back. I'm pretty sure I still have the certificate. Let me know if you need it.

MVP
12-16-2010, 13:08
Stras,

It is one of the fw things I know exactly where it is located in the garage. I'll try to remember to scan it tonight.

MVP

MVP
12-23-2010, 09:57
Stras,

A copy is enroute via yahoo

alby502
10-28-2011, 06:06
In the "for whatever it's worth department", the French are notoriously tight about awarding their wings to anyone and if you do get to jump with them, they may promise you wings once we've given them ours but unless you have a certificate from the school at Pau then you don't have wings. Then it may take a while too. I had an online conversation about this with a German reserve NCO (he trained at Bad Tolz in the 70s and 80s) and passed on his experience with the 13th RDP which used to be at Friedrichshaffen (sp?) on the Bodensee.

Pete
10-28-2011, 06:27
In the "for whatever it's worth department", the French are notoriously tight about awarding their wings to anyone and if you do get to jump with them, they may promise you wings once we've given them ours but unless you have a certificate from the school at Pau then you don't have wings..........

You can say that again. Jumped a C-160 Transall(?) in France on one of their big FTXs and then jumped with the French Marines in Zaire. As they said - got three more to go.

MVP
10-28-2011, 16:11
When I was at Tolz the rules were agreed upon in the beginning, French, German, whatever wings cost 5 jumps, US wings cost 5 jumps. IIRC we had to make 3 balloon jumps to get the Belgian wings in 1986 with no reciprical award to the Belgians This came at the end of Flintlock and we had Belgian Commandos and Para's with us for 3 weeks in the field in Belgium.

MVP

Dusty
10-28-2011, 16:49
Well...it is French and some sort of unit tradition going back to 1936...:rolleyes:

I think I'd rather wear my old 'Johnson-Humphrey' campaign button. :p

Richard :munchin

Busted.

Ret10Echo
10-28-2011, 21:44
In the "for whatever it's worth department", the French are notoriously tight about awarding their wings to anyone

Concur...worked a military parachuting exercise in Valladolid, (Villanubla) Spain. The French did not exchange wings with any of the other nations participating.

Angry Mike
11-06-2011, 03:37
i want to say we got ours when we did that 50th anniversary of the southern france landings.
we did some crazy amount of jumps with 074/084/094 back in '93 or '94??
it was such a big deal that we went to the tunnel for two or three days before we went to france from Devens. Met up with the free fall team out of 1/10.
The Brits sux'ed, the French nailed it, Norton had a cut away and one of our guys ran into another guy for a low altitude entanglement.
Worst goat-roping I ever had as a JM. Blah.
Jughead Riley and some other old timers were there with us.
Ultimately for this tale of woe, we did get French wings at the end of our little expedition.

mt