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British schools where girls must wear the Islamic veil
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8038820/British-schools-where-girls-must-wear-the-Islamic-veil.html
Before everyone gets their panties in a wad these are three private schools. It's the moderate Muslims who are complaining. The girls, some as young as 11 are forced to wear them to and from school.
But, with that said - it's Muslims who are complaining - and Muslims who see no problem with it.
From the site of one of the schools - "........Explaining the school's ethos, Madani's website says: "If we oppose the lifestyle of the west then it does not seem sensible that the teachers and the system, which represents that lifestyle, should educate our children." ..............."
They oppose the lifestyle of the west. Well, that means they will change it if they can.
The fact that one of the schools requires cash payments for tuition should be enough to throw up all kinds of red flags, for a financial investigation at least. It was odd that the only history taught was Islamic history. I couldn't find a detailed curriculum for British schools, but they do require a history course.
http://www.britishcouncil.org/usa-education-uk-system-k-12-education.htm
http://www.education.gov.uk/
The Reaper
10-03-2010, 17:47
Can someone explain to me how Islamists are different from the Klan?
Honestly, with the commonality of supremacy, intolerance, violence, and hatred, why is the one based on religion an acceptable belief system, and the other based on race a group to be loathed? Both appear to advocate discrimination and hatred. It seems to be systemic.
Is there really much of a difference, other than the fact that you can convert your religion and become a Muslim, before you start hating non-Muslims? I guess there are minor differences in the hatred, where a moderate just feels that it is acceptable to cheat and steal from a non-believer, and a radical wants to cut the heads off non-believers.
Clearly, you have to be born a Caucasian to be a Klansman, so maybe a Nazi is a better comparison. As noted elsewhere, is Islam more of a political movement (or an organized/institutionalized system of hatred and discrimination) than a religious one?
TR
TR, I think any correlation you make between such groups is appropriate. Reading just this article illustrates the goal of their leaders clearly: http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=804
These are some of the aspirations of men in this life, which Allah has kept the believers clean and innocent from: instead entrusting them with much loftier concerns! He has placed upon their shoulders the highest of duties which is the guidance of humanity to the truth, leading mankind to good, and the illumination of the entire world with the light of Islam and this is what He, the Almighty says:
‘O ye who believe ! Bow down, and prostrate yourselves. and worship your Lord, and do good that you may be successful And strive hard in the cause of Allah as you ought to strive. He has chosen you (to convey his message), and has not laid upon you in religion any hardship. It is the religion of your father Abraham. It is he (Allah) who has named you Muslims both before and in this (Qur’an) so that the Apostle might be a witness over you, and you be witnesses over mankind. Therefore offer the prayers perfectly, and pay the alms, and hold fast to Allah. He is your Protector. What an excellent Protector, What an excellent Helper!’
(Surat-al-Hajj (22), ayahs 77-78)
This means that the Noble Qur"an appoints the Muslims as guardians over humanity in its minority, and grants them the right of supervision and rule over the world in order to carry out this sublime command. Hence it is our concern, it pertains to Islamic civilisation, not that of the West, nor to that of a materialistic civilisation.
Since the aim was what originally impelled us to follow the path, it became necessary that we reclarify and redefine this aim as it had become obscure and confused: I suspect that we have succeeded in doing so, and have come to the conclusion that it is our duty to establish Allah’s sovereignty over the world. To guide all of humanity to the precepts of Islam and its teachings (without which mankind cannot attain happiness).
Wise was the man who said: ‘Striving is the surest way of implementing the truth, and how beautiful that striving and truth should march side by side.’ Jihad is the means of spreading the Islamic call and of preserving the sacred principles of Islam. This is another religious duty imposed by Allah on the Muslim, just as He imposed fasting, prayer, pilgrimage, alms, and the doing of good and abandoning of evil. He has imposed Jihad upon them, and entrusted them with it. He did not excuse anyone possessing the strength and ability from performing it, for it is a Qur"anic verse which is imperative a warning, and an exhortation which is binding:
‘March forth, light and heavy, and strive with your wealth and your persons in Allah"s way!’
(Surat-at-Tauba (9), ayah 41)
Allah revealed the secret of this entrustment and the wisdom of imposing this on the Muslims, showing them that He selected and distinguished them, above all of mankind, to be the leaders of His creation, His trustees over the Divine Law, and His deputies on His earth, as well as the heirs of His Messenger (PBUH). He made the religion easy for them, perfected His legislation, and made its rules eternal, rendering them applicable to all times and places, so that the world would accept them and humanity would see in them its long awaited and anticipated hope:
‘He has chosen you, and imposed on you no hardship in religion the creed of your father Abraham. He named you Muslims formerly, and in this, so that the Prophet might be a witness against you, and you be witnesses against mankind’
(Surat-al-Hajj (22), ayah 78)
This is a social duty which Allah has entrusted on all Muslims, so that they may be as one battalion, a solid block and a strong force, become the army of liberation to rescue humanity and guide them all to the path.
The Muslims have travelled to the furthest countries of the earth with the Qur’an on their chests, their homes on their saddles and their swords in their hands, and with the clear proof on the tips of their tongues, inviting mankind to accept Islam or the paying of jizya, or else face combat. Anyone who accepted Islam became their brother; what was theirs became his too. Anyone who paid the jizya was under their protection and liability, they stood by his rights, observing the pact made with him, and faithfully keeping to the conditions accepted by him. Anyone who remained unyielding was fought by them until God granted them victory:
‘But God will not allow except that His light has been perfect.’
(Surat-at-Tauba (9), ayah 32)
There were many more such quotes. These were just a few which really caught my eye.
Can someone explain to me how Islamists are different from the Klan?
One group cites and follows the Quran and the other cites and follows the Bible.
Does this mean neither of the major religious beliefs are a single entity in which all adherents believe and practice the same thing in spite of (or maybe because of...:confused:) how it has been written, edited, interpolated, and preached?
Richard
One group cites and follows the Quran and the other cites and follows the Bible.
Does this mean neither of the major religious beliefs are a single entity in which all adherents believe and practice the same thing in spite of (or maybe because of...) how it has been written, edited, interpolated, and preached?
IMHO Richard nails it here.
For folks who are comfortable labeling fundamentalist nuts like Choudary (who would remain a turd if baptized tomorrow) or terrorists like AQ as the voice or face of Islam, how do you reconcile folks like that pastor in Florida, terrorists who bomb abortion clinics, the Klan and supremacist militias, or pedophile priests?
They are simply fundamentalist nuts or wolves in my book regardless of who they worship, I do not hold the above types against Christians either, or feel they speak for Christianity, my experience is quite the opposite.
...........For folks who are comfortable labeling fundamentalist nuts like Choudary (who would remain a turd if baptized tomorrow) or terrorists like AQ as the voice or face of Islam, how do you reconcile folks like that pastor in Florida, terrorists who bomb abortion clinics, the Klan and supremacist militias, or pedophile priests? ...............
When they fly aircraft into buildings killing three thousand Muslims and then Christians dance for joy by the thousands in the streets of the US - get back with me.
When they fly aircraft into buildings killing three thousand Muslims and then Christians dance for joy by the thousands in the streets of the US - get back with me.
Pete,
Sir, respectfully aren't there rivers of blood attributable to wolves masquerading across faiths? Pearl Harbor was equally unprovoked with similar loss of life, yet do we judge all Japanese both abroad and our fellow Americans of that ancestry by this act? Or the Germans for their atrocities in the world wars or the British for burning Washington DC?
More currently, do we judge all Hispanics both here and abroad for the barbarism and violence of the cartels along our borders? Can we be agreed these cartels are simply wolves, and their acts not representative of their Hispanic heritage or Christian faith? Aren't humans as sentient beings far too complex for uniform single entity identity?
....... Pearl Harbor was equally unprovoked with similar loss of life, yet do we judge all Japanese both abroad and our fellow Americans of that ancestry by this act? .............
Did the Japanese Americans Dance in the street?
The Reaper
10-04-2010, 14:33
Pete,
Sir, respectfully aren't there rivers of blood attributable to wolves masquerading across faiths? Pearl Harbor was equally unprovoked with similar loss of life, yet do we judge all Japanese both abroad and our fellow Americans of that ancestry by this act? Or the Germans for their atrocities in the world wars or the British for burning Washington DC?
More currently, do we judge all Hispanics both here and abroad for the barbarism and violence of the cartels along our borders? Can we be agreed these cartels are simply wolves, and their acts not representative of their Hispanic heritage or Christian faith? Aren't humans as sentient beings far too complex for uniform single entity identity?
I don't see any of those groups whose current core documents and beliefs call for lying, cheating, stealing, and eventually killing those who wish to worship differently. In fact, all but the drug cartels are our allies.
IRT to Richard's comments, the Muslims are living by the worst aspects of the Old Testament, as interpreted by a misogynist pedophilac murderer, and are absolutely obligated to do so by their faith, upon penalty of death. I know of no other modern religion that requires this degree of animosity to non-believers. The Klan and Nazis have not followed a particular faith, AFAIK. I suspect that they would prefer members who were agnostics or atheists.
TR
Utah Bob
10-04-2010, 17:38
Originally Posted by akv
....... Pearl Harbor was equally unprovoked with similar loss of life, yet do we judge all Japanese both abroad and our fellow Americans of that ancestry by this act? .............
Not now, but in early 1942 it was a whole different ballgame.
Not now, but in early 1942 it was a whole different ballgame.
You can still talk to some WWII vets who, to this day, cannot stand Japanese, Germans, or Italians. Their attitudes were born in the fires of their experiences, just as many attitudes are being shaped today. Extremists of all types are being allowed to appear to represent their respective groups by the inaction or silence of those within their groups who oppose them.
Can someone explain to me how Islamists are different from the Klan?
One group cites and follows the Quran and the other cites and follows the Bible.
"Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years," and which groups are/were actually violating the tenets of their faith?
Violence in the Bible is descriptive, whereas violence in the Qur'an is prescriptive - Christianity doesn't have any theological legal imperative commanding Christians to go out and do violence on Christianities behalf, whereas Islam does. Islam is totally different among all other religions because of its doctrine, theology, and Jurisprudence that mandates warfare against Kafiroon.
There's a huge difference between what's done in the name of religion versus what's dictated by religious doctrine.
As Christians are to follow the example of Christ, Muslims are to follow the example of the prophet Mohammed.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/the_political_violence_of_the.html
:munchin
"Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years," and which groups are/were actually violating the tenets of their faith?
Violence in the Bible is descriptive, whereas violence in the Qur'an is prescriptive - Christianity doesn't have any theological legal imperative commanding Christians to go out and do violence on Christianities behalf, whereas Islam does. Islam is totally different among all other religions because of its doctrine, theology, and Jurisprudence that mandates warfare against Kafiroon.
There's a huge difference between what's done in the name of religion versus what's dictated by religious doctrine.
As Christians are to follow the example of Christ, Muslims are to follow the example of the prophet Mohammed.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/the_political_violence_of_the.html
:munchin
Thank you, T-Rock! Very well put and in a nutshell. I get tired of reading/hearing the Christianity vs. islam, especially when one is a religion and one is an ideology. There are no comparisons and too many contracts. Shall we compare Jesus to mohammed?
"There is no argument in the world that carries the hatred that a religious belief does."
- Will Rogers
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
"Liberals define religion as only those belief systems that subscribe to the notion of a divine being in order to dismiss other religions as mere religion and theirs as something greater"
-Ann Coulter
:D
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=10402140183334789701&q=kaufman+v.+mccaughtry&hl=en&as_sdt=40000000002&as_vis=1
Not now, but in early 1942 it was a whole different ballgame.
Sir yes it was, but I'd like to think America learned something from that experience?
Specifically, from the internment of our citizens of Japanese ancestry during the duration of the conflict, while their sons in the 442nd Regiment earned 21 Medals of Honor, becoming the most decorated regiment in US Military History.
At the same time the Empire of Japan was a brutal foe, Pearl Harbor, and atrocities such as Nanking and Bataan warranted the war's outcome.
Perhaps the lesson then as now is America must vigorously defend herself from evil, while resisting the trap of turning on our own citizens,in times of crisis, unless proven disloyal?
............Perhaps the lesson then as now is America must vigorously defend herself from evil, while resisting the trap of turning on our own citizens,in times of crisis, unless proven disloyal?
"......... turning on our own citizens,......." Now that is the key phrase. Are Muslims in America "Americans" or are they just Muslims living in America until they have the numbers to change it into an Islamic State?
Ask a Muslim and they say "Sure, I'm an American." Ask their leader and they say "Until we get the numbers." Me? I still believe what their leaders say.
Thats why I ask every now and again for someone to name a Muslim country where everyone of all religions live in peace with each other. The best they, Richard, could come up with was a country in the Balkans.
Thats why its key to look at whats happening in countries like Turkey and Bangladesh. They are doing it at the ballot box.
Believe them when they say they want the world under Islamic rule.
And so stands poised the eternal matron of man's religiosity - with her soul full of meanness, her pocket full of boodle, and her mouth full of pious hypocrisies - give her soap and towel...but hide the looking glass.
- with apologies to SLC.
And so it goes...
Richard's $.02 :munchin