View Full Version : All Marines to be culturally trained.
kawaishi
09-14-2010, 13:54
MarAdmin 468/10 orders that all Marines begin recieving cultural training for 1 of 17 specific world regions for the duration of their career. This isn't special training or FID units, this is Marine Corps wide.
While it's not a bad idea to try and broaden the minds of young troops, I hope the Corps doesn't start trying to claim that it's line infantry battalions are "Special Forces Operations Capable." The indoctrination in the Marines does lead to our dogma that anything a Soldier does a Marine can do better, and that is dangerous thinking.
http://www.usmc.mil/news/messages/Pages/MARADMIN468-10.aspx
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2010/09/marine-new-mandatory-cultural-training-091310w/
MarAdmin 468/10 orders that all Marines begin recieving cultural training for 1 of 17 specific world regions for the duration of their career. This isn't special training or FID units, this is Marine Corps wide.
While it's not a bad idea to try and broaden the minds of young troops, I hope the Corps doesn't start trying to claim that it's line infantry battalions are "Special Forces Operations Capable." The indoctrination in the Marines does lead to our dogma that anything a Soldier does a Marine can do better, and that is dangerous thinking.
http://www.usmc.mil/news/messages/Pages/MARADMIN468-10.aspx
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2010/09/marine-new-mandatory-cultural-training-091310w/
Just my two cents worth but I highly doubt the Marines will ever claim that they are anything but Devil Dogs and would not want the title of Special Forces Capable. And it's never a bad idea to broaden then minds of young military men/women regardless of MOS.
mark46th
09-14-2010, 16:50
You shouldn't try to teach a dog to sing. It is impossible and only annoys the dog...
Utah Bob
09-14-2010, 17:04
Couldn't hurt. Better late than never.
Looks like they’re pretty well culturally trained to me :D
“Mujahideen,” “Jew,” come and play…
http://www.qubetv.tv/videos/detail/3483
MarAdmin 468/10 orders that all Marines begin recieving cultural training for 1 of 17 specific world regions for the duration of their career. This isn't special training or FID units, this is Marine Corps wide.
Have always liked Marines. They rock at what they do, as they are trained to.
Like Force Recon Marines. They are hardcore, and know their job, IMVHO.
Holly:munchin
Have always liked Marines. They rock at what they do, as they are trained to.
Like Force Recon Marines. They are hardcore, and know their job, IMVHO.
Holly:munchin
Holly
You are only supposed to kiss up to us
:p
This is the funniest thread I've seen lately. I saw it tried with the embassy Marines - they had nil interest and it didn't work too well - I can only imagine how it'll go on a Corps-wide scale. Maturity is a big factor. I guess nobody ever reads any AARs in the Corps, either.
And so it goes...
Richard's $.02 :munchin
this has got to be the commandant's initiative. He tried this crap before he deployed to Iraq and that is one reason fallujah became "Fallujah". he never caught on that the bunny-hugging classes didn't really succeed in getting the muj to like them. Lot of good marines died due to his ineptitude. and "no", I don't like the man.
Holly
You are only supposed to kiss up to us
Oh now B, you know "Ya'll" are MY Guys!!! :o
Lot of good marines died due to his ineptitude.
This is so sad to learn about!:(
Holly
Ahh, cultural training. While I have not received the military version of cultural training, I have had a number of courses that emphasized different cultures, the elimination of "deficit thinking" and use of "community stores of knowledge", as well as the interaction between the various cultures.
Deficit thinking means that one should not focus on what the groups do not know, but rather on what they do know. Likewise, the community stores of knowledge. Thus, one should not emphasize that they do not know how to use a computer, but rather should note their ability to use the bus system to get to their various destinations. No, I am not making that up. Yes, it is a specific example from a specific class. But I digress....
None of this had any particular effect on attitudes or opinions. It did not improve harmony between groups or individual elements within those groups. Always supposing, of course, that my comments weren't the problem.... :o
My observation - knowledge of another culture does enhance the ability to get along with them, if one cranks up their SA and really works at accomodating the other viewpoint. However, such knowledge also informs one how to annoy members of other groups in subtle and unpleasant ways. The knowledge can form the basis for gaining useful cooperation from members of those other groups; however, there is a price to be paid for such cooperation. I do not doubt for a moment that Special Forces soldiers know how to turn that to good advantage. I am not at all sure that I, or most others, could.
All MOO, YMMV, etc.
My observation - knowledge of another culture does enhance the ability to get along with them, if one cranks up their SA and really works at accomodating the other viewpoint. However, such knowledge also informs one how to annoy members of other groups in subtle and unpleasant ways. The knowledge can form the basis for gaining useful cooperation from members of those other groups; however, there is a price to be paid for such cooperation.
Agree, nmap, though am by far not as well written, (at least not here,) as you.;)
Case in point, a class of mine is studying Japanese cuisine this week, and in turn, we read about their culture, people, and food. Sorry to say, "The Rape of Nanking," was left out of our textbook...skipped over, if you will.
Found Here:
http://www.tribo.org/nanking/
Holly
Case in point, a class of mine is studying Japanese cuisine this week, and in turn, we read about their culture, people, and food. Sorry to say, "The Rape of Nanking," was left out of our textbook...skipped over, if you will.
Holly
So...you could always bring in a nice arrangement of chrysanthemums...and while you dine, use chopsticks...which you stick upright in your food.... :D
(Actually, you would NOT want to do those things!)
LINK (http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080817122016AATKC7Z)
[QUOTE=nmap;348647]So...you could always bring in a nice arrangement of chrysanthemums...and while you dine, use chopsticks...which you stick upright in your food.... :D
That is SICK. How could you possibly post that? No, really, am curious!
Holly
[QUOTE=nmap;348647]So...you could always bring in a nice arrangement of chrysanthemums...and while you dine, use chopsticks...which you stick upright in your food.... :D
That is SICK. How could you possibly post that? No, really, am curious!
Holly
It's an example of the two-edged sword of cultural awareness. If one lacks it, one might make an embarrasing but unintentional error - for example, bringing a bouquet of 'mums. On the other hand, if one wishes to annoy, the same knowledge could be used for that very purpose.
As we choose to expand cultural training, I suggest that not everyone will use their new information in the kindest of ways.
It's an example of the two-edged sword of cultural awareness. If one lacks it, one might make an embarrasing but unintentional error - for example, bringing a bouquet of 'mums. On the other hand, if one wishes to annoy, the same knowledge could be used for that very purpose.
As we choose to expand cultural training, I suggest that not everyone will use their new information in the kindest of ways.
Okay, nevermind....Have you read, "The Rape of Nanking,"?????
Holly
Okay, nevermind....Have you read, "The Rape of Nanking,"?????
Holly
I am aware of a variety of the details - but no, I haven't read the book, nor have I seen the film. The Chinese were treated in a manner that was truly horrific.
And, too, there was the Japanese treatment of American POWs...and of the Koreans...
Sometime, you might wish to read Reckless, Pride of the Marines...it's about a horse...but it touches on the treatment of American POWs interned in Korea.
During WWII, the rape of Nanking was not unique, according to my understanding.
Utah Bob
09-16-2010, 12:26
Ahh, cultural training. While I have not received the military version of cultural training, I have had a number of courses that emphasized different cultures, the elimination of "deficit thinking" and use of "community stores of knowledge", as well as the interaction between the various cultures.
Deficit thinking means that one should not focus on what the groups do not know, but rather on what they do know. Likewise, the community stores of knowledge. Thus, one should not emphasize that they do not know how to use a computer, but rather should note their ability to use the bus system to get to their various destinations. No, I am not making that up. Yes, it is a specific example from a specific class. But I digress....
None of this had any particular effect on attitudes or opinions. It did not improve harmony between groups or individual elements within those groups. Always supposing, of course, that my comments weren't the problem.... :o
My observation - knowledge of another culture does enhance the ability to get along with them, if one cranks up their SA and really works at accomodating the other viewpoint. However, such knowledge also informs one how to annoy members of other groups in subtle and unpleasant ways. The knowledge can form the basis for gaining useful cooperation from members of those other groups; however, there is a price to be paid for such cooperation. I do not doubt for a moment that Special Forces soldiers know how to turn that to good advantage. I am not at all sure that I, or most others, could.
All MOO, YMMV, etc.
For hundreds of years combat troops have always somehow managed to find out the cultural taboos that will piss off, degrade, and insult the enemy, and alas, the local populace.
It can't hurt to train them in ways to befriend the locals as well.
As Richard said, it's a matter of maturity.
The Marines need to spend more time on teaching how to deal with interpreters. Too many Marines take for granted that what they are saying is being translated verbatim (as if there was such a thing when dealing with different languages). The Marines that have put in the time to study a foreign language have most likely also put in the time to also study the culture.
Interpreters probably were the biggest pain in the ass to deal with when dealing with the Iraqis because they terps generally were from a solid upper/ middle class while the soldiers were from a lower/working class. I had no idea that my terp was calling one of my Iraqi soldiers "boy" ( A Iran/Iraq, Kuwait Invasion, GW1, GW 2 - their side and, GW 2-our side Vet) until a Special Forces SFC pulled me aside and let me know.
I got some thrown together "cultural training" before I deployed but I honestly
would have been best served by getting interpreter interaction training.
kawaishi
09-17-2010, 03:32
For hundreds of years combat troops have always somehow managed to find out the cultural taboos that will piss off, degrade, and insult the enemy, and alas, the local populace.
It can't hurt to train them in ways to befriend the locals as well.
As Richard said, it's a matter of maturity.
Agreed, I think it's a damn good idea and possibly a historic one. But let's not be naive, our leadership is very savvy and they don't make uncalculated decisions of this magnitude. At several junctures in our history the Marine Corps was almost abolished (or ceased to exist as a combat force) and this has left the USMC constantly re-evaluating it's mission and relevance to future threats so that it can legitimately validate its existence. While it's a good thing to be proactive about the future I'm afraid that our hubris and desire for a new niche may be driving the Corps way to far into the QP's lane.
Anyway, I do think that this is the first time anyone is going to try this across the board in any service. Well see how it turns out.
FMFDOC, as far as devil dogs always being devil dogs you're absolutely right, and that means they think devil dogs can do everything better than everyone! While that's normal for young Marines with spirit and pride, it's a very bad thinking when making policy.
Now we have an SOF that does FID/UW/SR/DA. :confused:
Reality check? Look at the history of why and how MARSOC came about, and its mission, structure and its leadership. Check your sources.
Richard :munchin
kawaishi
09-17-2010, 05:05
Will do, Richard. Just to be clear I wrote "reality check" thinking of the Corps and after I edited my post it was no longer relevant.