View Full Version : Troops Punished After Refusing to Attend Evangelical Concert
Update: An Army spokesman now says the Pentagon will investigate soldiers' claims that they were punished for refusing to attend the Christian-themed concert.
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
Troops Punished After Refusing to Attend Evangelical Concert
Time, 20 Aug 2010
Pvt. Anthony Smith is the type of guy who stands up for what he believes in. That's why he decided to hold his commanding officers accountable for punishing him and fellow soldiers after they refused to attend an evangelical Christian rock concert at the Fort Eustis military post in Virginia.
After a day of training at Fort Eustis, Smith and other trainees were normally released to have personal time, but on May 13, Smith and dozens of others were "required" to march in formation to a concert headlined by an evangelical Christian rock band. Smith spent six months training at Fort Eustis before moving to Arizona to serve on active duty with the National Guard.
"No option was presented to us off the bat," Smith told Truthout about the required concert.
The Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concert that Smith and others were told to attend was headlined by BarlowGirl, a "band of tender-hearted, beautiful young women who aren't afraid to take an aggressive, almost warrior-like stance when it comes to spreading the gospel and serving God," according to the group's web site.
The group Smith marched with included at least two Muslim soldiers who fell out of rank and stopped marching on their own, according to a first-hand account published by the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF).
Once outside the concert, Smith and the other trainees were finally given an option and told to split into two groups: those who wanted to attend, and those who did not. Smith and about 80 others decided not to attend, even though they were obviously being "pressured" to do so. Smith and the others were sent back to their barracks on "lockdown," a punishment that Smith said withholds even basic freedoms like using their own electronics.
Barlow Girl band member Lauren Barlow said if she and the other members of the group knew soldiers were being forced to attend the concert and were then punished for refusing to attend "we would have said something."
"That's horrible," Barlow tweeted in response to the revelations first published Thursday by MRFF's head researcher, Chris Rodda. "We never knew that. We thought they had a choice. If we would have known we would have said something."
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The concert was part of a series of "spiritual fitness" music events at Fort Eustis and nearby Fort Lee instituted by born-again Christian Gen. James E. Chambers, according to an article on the Army's web site.
"They call them 'spiritual' events, but the vast majority of spiritual events are Christian-based," Smith said.
Smith said that the events often involve Bible readings and testimonies from evangelicals.
Headlining acts like BarlowGirl cost tens of thousands of dollars, and researchers with the MRFF later discovered that the Department of Defense has awarded multi-million dollar contracts for consultants behind spiritual fitness events.
A spokesperson for Fort Eustis did not have any information or statements prepared regarding the May 13 incident as of Friday afternoon.
"I'm not somebody who just stands down to pressure and gives in," Smith said about choosing not to attend the concert. "But there were so many people who weren't willing to stand up for themselves."
So, Smith and another anonymous soldier decided to take action. They filed an Equal Opportunity (EO) complaint against their commanding officers, but Smith said the complaint fell on deaf ears.
Smith said the first EO officer they spoke with told them that nothing was wrong, and their complaint would simply become another "statistic." Smith and the anonymous solider sought out other EO officers and took their case up the chain of command.
"We were wasting our breath," he said.
Smith said his commanding officers did offer an apology, but asserted that they did nothing wrong on May 13 and it was perfectly within their "rights" to march Smith and his fellow soldiers wherever they wanted, evangelical Christian event or otherwise.
Barlow Girl band member Lauren Barlow said if she and the other members of the group knew soldiers were being forced to attend the concert and were then punished for refusing to attend "we would have said something."
"That's horrible," Barlow tweeted in response to the revelations first published Thursday by MRFF's head researcher, Chris Rodda. "We never knew that. We thought they had a choice. If we would have known we would have said something."
Smith turned to the MRFF, an organization that represents 19, 200 military personnel and veterans, according to founder Michael "Mikey" Weinstein.
Weinstein called Smith a hero for "breaking the silence barrier" and "speaking truth to power."
He said that Smith and the others who were pressured into attending the concert - and then punished if they chose otherwise - were "spiritually raped by their commanding officers." Weinstein, an Air Force Academy graduate, said that service members are supposed to defend the Constitution, which clearly establishes the separation of church and state.
Weinstein questioned what would have happened if Smith's commanding officer was a Muslim or atheist and demanded that his subordinates attend an Islamic or secular music event.
"He would have had his head cut off," Weinstein said.
Weinstein said that a majority of MRFF clients are Christians who are told that they are "not the right kind of Christian" while serving in the military.
Weinstein considers Smith a hero, but for Smith, the truth is quite simple: he is just doing his duty as a defender of his country and Constitution.
I've always stood up to my beliefs, it is kind of ridiculous that I have to deal with this in the military," Smith said.
http://www.truth-out.org/troops-punished-after-refusing-attend-evangelical-concert62504
Whatever.......
But the big question "Dude, you were in training and they were GIRLS!!!!!!!!"
Man, the Army just ain't the same.
Utah Bob
08-22-2010, 18:03
Interesting.
Seems to me as if its just another good reason to avoid Fort Useless. ;)
Richard :munchin
Peregrino
08-22-2010, 18:39
Having encountered my share of born agains in the military, I'm completely sympathetic to this Soldier's complaint. I hope he gets a favorable result; however, I'm not holding my breath.
AngelsSix
08-22-2010, 19:01
This happens all the time. I remember the last time we were "released early" on a Friday to go to a "family picnic". Turned out that the base chaplain was holding the event. While they did not go overboard on the religion thing, they still should have given troops the choice to go to the picnic, or go home to spend time with their families. Instead we were told to go to the picnic or stay at work until 5. They released people at 1300. I do not participate in religious themed events for a reason and do not feel the military has the right to do this. Not everyone in the military is Christian.:rolleyes:
Must have been easy training, hell during 11B 18 weeks, yes a short stay .
:boohoo
craigepo
08-22-2010, 21:37
As a Christian, this type of pressure bothers me.
There is a Bible verse prohibiting "casting pearls before swine". This verse was not meant in a derogatory sense, but to illustrate that if people don't want to hear what a Christian has to say, the issue should not be forced.
Humans screw up a lot of stuff.
Animal8526
08-22-2010, 22:53
I saw some similar stuff while I was in the Army. I remember one time we were forced to be filmed as "extras" for a music video done by some county/western singer. Not a huge deal, and water off a ducks back, but wrong all the same.
Irishsquid
08-22-2010, 23:02
An opportunity to be seen as a "Christian," nation, with a "Christian," government and military...just what we need. Always hated that stuff. Hated it when we were forced to "pray," at bootcamp graduation. Hated it when we were forced to attend services on religious holidays. Hated it anytime religion was ever forced on me.
Papa Zero Three
08-22-2010, 23:25
Can't say this is really a surprise. If you've spent any time in the Army you've had to partake in "mandatory fun" at some point. Do the words organizational day ring any bells to anyone? As a single soldier, the only reason I knew what fantasy lake looked like was because I had to be there and watch other peoples kids and wives play games or pretend to like each other for a few hours before I could leave. This really wouldn't surprise me if it was any other event other than a religious event. I would think that any CoC would be heads up enough to know that this type of event is no different than soldiers having the option to attend religious services or not at their discretion without fear of getting a shit detail or the time to use as they wanted. Apparently , this CoC was not.
Some mandatory fun which started off sucking, ended up being a good time. Some was outright BS and I'd basically take my team, make a show of being there, then dissolve into the mist with a can of copenhagen for the CQ to give me a call if there was any formations held.
I'd take my team to the range or we'd find something as a team that we all felt more enjoyable and productive.
Irishsquid
08-23-2010, 00:57
I have no problem with mandatory fun days as long as they are not religious based. I can understand the need to "build cameraderie," as a unit...but I can't stand being force-fed religion.
alright4u
08-23-2010, 02:23
This is Training? These troops need their asses marched off, guts run off, legs built up, stamina built, plus plenty of real tactics. This was a vacation.
So, if PVT Johnny Lump-Lump decides to stop marching 'cause they are taking him somewhere he doesn't want to go...when else will he stop marching? It was the commanding generals concert for Pete's sake. It's not like they were riding into peril. He's a trainee.
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All to the Commanders Concert
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Training Brigade!"
"Charge for the stage!" he said:
Into the Commanders Concert
Rode the six hundred.
Was he really acting on principle or conviction...or was he just being a butt-head. Does it really matter? In 1985 at Ft McClellan I saw the outside of post twice in the 4 months I was there. On Saturdays they had a Non-denominational Christian function called Sunday Night Live...where you could watch TV, play pool, etc... I was not a church going guy, but that was the only time you could leave the company area by yourself, so I took advantage of it. May be life is too easy at Eustis?
So two of eighty soldiers file a complaint with the base EO. Then one, Smith, goes to the Military Religious Freedom Foundation and tells their story. The founder, Michael "Mikey" Weinstein, states they were "spiritually raped by their commanding officers.". Then the story gets to Truthout purveyors of fine articles like, "History Does Not Lie - Unless It Is Being Invented by Republicans".
Well people took "Rangers" Jesse MacBeth and Micah Wright at face value with just their stories, at first.
I haven't found much, any really, compelling evidence that substantiate their statements of the events they claim. I think I'd like to see some, just in case there might be BS involved.
I found this statement in an AP article.
Smith said a staff sergeant told 200 men in their barracks they could either attend or remain in their barracks. Eighty to 100 decided not to attend, he said.
"Instead of being released to our personal time, we were locked down," Smith said. "It seemed very much like a punishment." http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ja7NKtqkk0F3fQWCNf56L0MAFrSgD9HNJ3C80
This seems closer to the truth since in BCT at Ft. Knox Saturday or Sunday (forget which) was the day we would have the barracks "GI" party... unless we decided to go to church or Chaplains hour (again forget which).
It wasn't punishment or coercion, it was just a choice.
The Reaper
08-23-2010, 06:49
So the version of the story above, from an activist website (before being picked up by Time), is accepted at face value as the truth about what actually happened?
I would be shocked if a GO was stupid enough today, and his legal representation so poor as to allow this to take place as described.
Has anyone here ever seen an EO rep not pursue a case even if it was questionble?
It occurs to me that the majority of chaplains in the US Army are Protestant because the majority of the soldiers are Protestants. The majority of services conducted would also be Protestant for that reason. That does not mean that the Army requires Protestant worship, does not have priests, rabbis, imams, etc., or does not permit the worship of other gods.
I will reserve judgement while waiting for the other side of this one.
OTOH, I know of a PSYOP CO who had two troops bring complaints because they had "Jedi" on their dog tags, which is apparently a recognized religion. The CO said he didn't care what they worshipped, he just needed to know who to call to perform a burial ceremony. One recanted his status as a "Sith Lord" but the other refused to budge and wound up with a mental health referral.
TR
I always found the group prayer a small price to pay for the donuts, juice and canopy time during the Chaplain's jumps.
Team Sergeant
08-23-2010, 09:08
I always found the group prayer a small price to pay for the donuts, juice and canopy time during the Chaplain's jumps.
LOL, my thoughts exactly.
I think I read there is more to the story, actually non-story.
Besides donuts, the chance to be with real people who didn't yell at you with colorful metaphors. ;)
I always found the group prayer a small price to pay for the donuts, juice and canopy time during the Chaplain's jumps.
not to mention the free t-shirts for the JMs that supported the operation. Seems that the Chaplain had low faith in his creator, as he didn't want to accept the tandem jump with the MFF team.
You have free food, free eye candy, and no one has a gun pointed at your head forcing you to listen to the religious rhetoric. I'm sorry, but what is the problem?
greenberetTFS
09-01-2010, 08:09
not to mention the free t-shirts for the JMs that supported the operation. Seems that the Chaplain had low faith in his creator, as he didn't want to accept the tandem jump with the MFF team.
You have free food, free eye candy, and no one has a gun pointed at your head forcing you to listen to the religious rhetoric. I'm sorry, but what is the problem?
I concur..............:)
Big Teddy :munchin
dr. mabuse
09-01-2010, 08:18
OTOH, if it is true, I could sympathize, like being forced to stand behind POTUS and grin like I'm enjoying the photo op. :rolleyes:
greenberetTFS
09-01-2010, 08:40
As a Christian, this type of pressure bothers me.
There is a Bible verse prohibiting "casting pearls before swine". This verse was not meant in a derogatory sense, but to illustrate that if people don't want to hear what a Christian has to say, the issue should not be forced.
Humans screw up a lot of stuff.
Exactly...........;)
Big Teddy :munchin
I have to wonder, if they were forced to march to an islamic <slash> cultural event and decided that they were not willing to attend...what would the outcome be? Would they then be prosecuted as being islamaphobes? Racists? Disobeying a direct order? BUT...because these trainees were given an option, and they chose the "wrong one", it's "spiritual rape"? I found this story interesting and curious. No doubt, if the shoe was being worn on the other foot, there would be a shitstorm hitting the fan!
But..not for nothing, what is the issue with these two trainees, really? They get three hots, a cot, training, a paycheck and a free concert given by 3 lil hotties (albeit Christian Hotties). BTW, I do like their music, they are very talented young ladies.
I always found the group prayer a small price to pay for the donuts, juice and canopy time during the Chaplain's jumps.If a monkey was holding some sort service, I'd have gone just too get out of the SUCK!:D
Stay safe.
If a monkey was holding some sort service, I'd have gone just too get out of the SUCK!Here ya go...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOVMalnxL0M
And let the record show that during the one weekend in OCS I wasn't inspecting parking stripes in the lot by Building 4, I was right behind Richard in the line for cookies, kool-aid and redemption...they ran out of cookies and redemption before I got there...
The soldiers in training marched to a post wide event. Then upon arrival, were told either attend the event or march back to the barracks for "lockdown" and, they can't use their "personal electronics". So, let me get this right, they had an option to stay or leave (and achieve more practice at D&C). If they left the event they could not use their "personal electronics". Why do IET soldiers have electronics? They should be studying basic soldiering skills and for their MOS, not using an ipod or cell phone. What is going on in TRADOC?
Whatever.......
But the big question "Dude, you were in training and they were GIRLS!!!!!!!!"
Man, the Army just ain't the same.
I couldn't agree more. However, if I found out I was being marched to a Dixie Chicks concert, then there might have been trouble.
In my day, we would have been on lockdown because someone yelled "Show your ......"
USANick7
09-02-2010, 16:25
I think there needs to be some serious revisiting on religion in society.
I get a little tired of people complaining when there is a religious theme but being completely fine if the band presented sang songs with lyrics that presented a much different world view.
I'm sorry but there is no such thing as a neutral position. Whether you like it or not your views on religion influence your decisions...that includes atheists, agnostics, Jedi's etc.
If the band had been purely secular and I as a Christian had found some of the lyrics offensive I might have chosen to do something else, but I probably wouldn't have complained like a petulant little brat.
What is this culture coming to?
Let me share my young view. At BCT (Ft. Jackson) and AIT (Ft. Bragg), we were always allowed going to religious services and there were occasional special events. Nobody was forced to go, but I could easily twist the story and say if I had chosen not to go to chapel I would have been on "lockdown" in the barracks without personal electronics. I would like to know this soldiers Tier status and how often he had access to his electronics. Depending on which denominational service we attended at basic, we could potentially end up missing the first 30 minutes of barracks maintenance. Punishment for those who didn't attend? Not hardly. Those who did go were verbally harassed ("oh, you little f***ers want your cry time with Jesus?")and ridiculed by a DS.
Secondly, I say this is bull crap even if it occurred exactly as described. During BCT I had to sit for approximately 4 hours every day listening to one Drill tell his personal bedroom stories. No choice - slipping out to the latrine only works once or twice. His stories were in poor taste and sleazy. When I complained, I was threatened by that same Drill with a "failure to uphold Army values" restart. The only "practical" advice he ever gave my platoon was where to download cheat sheets for Army distance learning courses - something I will never use, and certainly not reflective of the Army values. TRADOC has issues, overemphasis on religious services isn't one of them.
- out
Dozer523
12-29-2010, 16:16
". . . on "lockdown" in the barracks without personal electronics." That just makes this FOG smile. :D:D
alright4u
12-30-2010, 00:18
Not worth my time.
sent the attached article,
http://www.mormonchurch.com/1285/mormon-dallin-oaks-harvard
Dallin H. Oaks Speaks at Harvard Law School
Elder Dallin H. Oaks, member of the Quorum of the Twelve apostles, spoke at Harvard Law School on 26 February 2010. This speech was part of the annual Mormonism 101 series.
In the talk, Elder Oaks addressed a number of basic principles of Mormonism, explaining that a survey showed few people really knew anything at all about Mormons, and what they did know was wrong or misunderstood.
“My object is to illuminate several premises and ways of thinking that are at the root of some misunderstandings about our doctrine and practice.
We Mormons know that our doctrines and values are not widely understood by those not of our faith. This was demonstrated by Gary Lawrence’s nationwide study published in his recent book, How Americans View Mormonism. Three-quarters of those surveyed associated our Church with high moral standards, but about half thought we were secretive and mysterious and had “weird beliefs.”[1] When asked to select various words they thought described Mormons in general, 87% checked “strong family values,” 78% checked “honest,” and 45% checked “blind followers.”[2]
When Lawrence’s interviewers asked, “To the best of your understanding, what is the main claim of Mormonism?” only 14% could describe anything close to the idea of restoration or reestablishment of the original Christian faith. Similarly, when another national survey asked respondents what one word best described their impression of the Mormon religion, not one person suggested the words or ideas of original or restoration Christianity.[3] “
Elder Oaks focused on three aspects of Mormonism in his discourse:
1. The nature of God, including the role of the three members of the Godhead, and the corollary truth that there are moral absolutes.
2. The purpose of life.
3. The three-fold sources of truth about man and the universe: science, the scriptures, and continuing revelation, and how we can know them.
These three principles form the foundations of Mormonism and the explanation for why Mormons believe what they believe. However, they are also frequently misunderstood or misrepresented.
Elder Oaks explained that while most Christians believe in God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, Mormons have a somewhat different view of this Godhead. This belief is the first statement in the Articles of Faith, a document listing thirteen fundamental principles of Mormonism. Mormonism teaches that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are three distinct beings, unified in testimony, purpose, and values.
“We maintain that these three members of the Godhead are three separate and distinct beings, and that God the Father is not a spirit but a glorified Being with a tangible body, as is his resurrected Son, Jesus Christ. Though separate in identity, they are one in purpose. We maintain that Jesus referred to this relationship when he prayed to His Father that His disciples would be “one” even as Jesus and his Father were one (see John 17:11)—united in purpose, but not in identity.”
Elder Oaks explained that Mormons believe Jesus Christ is the only Begotten Son of God, that He created the earth, that He is our teacher, and that through Him, we can be saved.
“Because of His resurrection all who have ever lived will be raised from the dead. He is the Savior whose atoning sacrifice opens the door for us to be forgiven of our personal sins so that we can be cleansed to return to the presence of God our Eternal Father. This is the central message of the prophets of all ages. Joseph Smith stated this great truth in our third Article of Faith: “We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.”
As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we testify with the Book of Mormon prophet-king Benjamin that “there shall be no other name given nor any other way nor means whereby salvation can come unto the children of men, only in and through the name of Christ, the Lord Omnipotent” (Mosiah 3:17).”
The second principle Elder Oaks introduced was that of the purpose of life, something most people worry about. For Mormons, the purpose of life is rooted in what happened before we were born. Mormons teach we lived with God prior to our births, as spirits, and that we agreed to come here to gain bodies and to be tested. Through the atonement and obedience to the commandments God and Jesus patiently taught, we can return to God’s presence someday.
Another purpose of life on earth is to gain a family. Mormons teach that family is not something created just for life on earth, to end in divorce at the end of life. Rather, the reason God made our feelings of love for our families so powerful was because He never intended for us to force that love out of our hearts when we arrive in Heaven, a place we will be happier than we ever imagined. To be truly happy, most of us need our families, and God planned that we could earn the right to have them with us for eternity. That provides a family-centeredness that is made more powerful by knowing it is forever.
I thanked her for the article, wished her a Merry Christmas and told her I loved her.
It's cool having a Mormon in the family, but my attorney is Jewish.
". . . on "lockdown" in the barracks without personal electronics." That just makes this FOG smile. :D:D
As I said, I could have twisted it to that. At basic we didn't have electronics period. At AIT we got them, for better or for worse. And you won't catch me complaining about not having them enough. IMHO the Army needs to jump back a few years to when you had better things to worry about than facebook or texting.
Dozer523
12-31-2010, 08:46
As I said, I could have twisted it to that. At basic we didn't have electronics period. At AIT we got them, . . . Relax, to most FOGs the only "personal electronics" was the light switch.
The Reaper
12-31-2010, 09:51
Relax, to most FOGs the only "personal electronics" was the light switch.
There was the buffer....
TR
There was the buffer...
Ah, yes...back when that 'B' in 05B, 11B, 12B, and 91B was an SQI for 'Buffermaster' around SFTG. ;)
Richard :munchin
Masochist
12-31-2010, 16:04
As I said, I could have twisted it to that. At basic we didn't have electronics period. At AIT we got them, for better or for worse. And you won't catch me complaining about not having them enough. IMHO the Army needs to jump back a few years to when you had better things to worry about than facebook or texting.
When was the official, Army-wide change in IET from no personal items (minus religious/reading material) to allowing cell phones and other electronics? It's been less than a decade ago for me, but I was only allowed a few pay phone calls during OSUT after the initial "Hi mom, I arrived alive. See you in 5 months." And I was the honor grad, so some had it worse. :p
"Lockdown" with no electronics? March back to the barracks on their own? There was always a DS to our flank, marching us to the PX or anywhere else we had to go. I especially appreciated the recently divorced DS who spent his evenings low-crawling thru the bay, tiping over lockers and making sure the privates had "sweet dreams."
Thanks all for the fond memories, I'm starting to miss Basic and AIT. :D
SouthernDZ
03-09-2011, 05:01
Army's Document and Training Command....?:confused:
Soldiers wrongly punished for skipping concert
By STEVE SZKOTAK
Associated Press
Mar 8, 6:46 PM EST
RICHMOND, Va. (AP) -- A staff sergeant erred when he banished dozens of soldiers to their barracks and ordered them to clean up after they refused to attend a Christian concert on a Virginia Army base last year, an investigation concluded.
When the Army learned the soldiers were punished, the company commander apologized to them the next day, according to the investigation's findings, released Tuesday to The Associated Press.
The actions of the staff sergeant, who was not named, were referred back to his battalion commander for nonjudicial action, according to Col. Daniel T. Williams, a spokesman for the Army's Document and Training Command, who detailed the findings of the investigation in a telephone interview. He said any punishment, if it occurred, would be kept confidential.
The sergeant's actions in May 2010 at Newport News' Fort Eustis were not consistent with the voluntary nature of the concerts, Williams said.
"The command did not find sufficient evidence to indicate there was any malicious intent and therefore deferred any discipline down to the battalion command," Williams said.
Mikey Weinstein of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, which first reported complaints by the soldiers, described the investigation's conclusion as typical for the military.
"Blame some lower-ranking enlisted guy who didn't know any better," he said in an interview. "That is just a completely inappropriate and disgraceful statement."
Weinstein called the Christian concerts "an absolute attempt to establish fundamental Christianity in the military."
Williams described them as "nondenominational with no particular religious affiliation."
Two soldiers who were punished told the AP they felt pressured to attend a performance by the Christian rock group BarlowGirl, as part of what was billed as the "Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concerts."
The soldiers said the staff sergeant told 200 men in their barracks they could either attend or remain confined there. They were told to not use their cell phones or personal computers and to clean up their living area.
The investigation did not dispute the soldiers' statements.
Williams said the concerts, which continue to be staged, are strictly voluntary, as they had been in May 2010.
The sergeant, Williams said, "marched a unit over to the Spiritual Fitness Concert thinking he was doing the right thing. He found out a very short time after that, no, that was not the right thing to do. He was corrected."
About 20 including several Muslims, refused to attend based on religious beliefs, the solder said.
Since then, the Army has reinforced the volunteer nature of the concerts through e-mails and training, Williams said.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CHRISTIAN_CONCERT_SOLDIERS?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US
Army's Document and Training Command
That little AP editing screw up is too perfect to correct. :D
To the issue:
IMHO if the DS didn't use the word "confine" they could have smoothed this one over a bit. Life is all about choices - take the opportunity for a 4 hour breather on a Sunday afternoon or take Advanced Buffer Operations 201 in the CQ hallway. You choose, private, you choose.
As for the Smartphone trainee generation - another TRADOC initiative trying to capitalize on the technological savy of today's youth; a principle that may brief well to certain audiences but in practicality has a strong potential to indirectly erode discipline .
Gone are the days where Joe spends the night spit shining his boots and taking BRASSO to his uniform bling. Throw a kid a smart phone, tell him where the Common Training Tasks and field manuals are, and hope he stays off Facebook and Twitter long enough to learn something that may save his life.
one-zero
03-11-2011, 14:27
My BOLD/Italics w/in your quote for emphasis - would change TRADOC to "USG". Working for a Govt agency in DC there is far more tolerance - strike and substitute - "encouragement" to attend a GayLesbo Affinity group event than even discuss/invite someone to a Christian event of any sort...We're now in a different neck of woods but still w/USG and it's a different story, has actually renewed my faith in our weak sisters (American Civvies) regardless of whether I agree with them - at least they're not backing down when getting the hushed "is that appropriate for display??" when a VIP from DC is looking at a banner in the room "In GOD we trust" and a old guy who can't be fired and brings beaucoup accolades to the agency says - 'perhaps we better call the f---ing treasury, someone scrawled it all over every bit of the money in my wallet'. Man the PC crowd hates me... err that old guy.:lifter
"Personal Electronics"??? I won't even go there...
Let me share my young view. At BCT (Ft. Jackson) and AIT (Ft. Bragg), we were always allowed going to religious services and there were occasional special events. Nobody was forced to go, but I could easily twist the story and say if I had chosen not to go to chapel I would have been on "lockdown" in the barracks without personal electronics. I would like to know this soldiers Tier status and how often he had access to his electronics. Depending on which denominational service we attended at basic, we could potentially end up missing the first 30 minutes of barracks maintenance. Punishment for those who didn't attend? Not hardly. Those who did go were verbally harassed ("oh, you little f***ers want your cry time with Jesus?")and ridiculed by a DS.
Secondly, I say this is bull crap even if it occurred exactly as described. During BCT I had to sit for approximately 4 hours every day listening to one Drill tell his personal bedroom stories. No choice - slipping out to the latrine only works once or twice. His stories were in poor taste and sleazy. When I complained, I was threatened by that same Drill with a "failure to uphold Army values" restart. The only "practical" advice he ever gave my platoon was where to download cheat sheets for Army distance learning courses - something I will never use, and certainly not reflective of the Army values. TRADOC has issues, overemphasis on religious services isn't one of them.
- out