View Full Version : Serious consideration... Is our president either...
Animal8526
08-19-2010, 23:45
An apostate of Islam, or a Muslim deceiving Kafirs in order to wage Jihad?
Consider this thread on another forum. Specifically posts 6, 7, 8, 20, 27 and 28...
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/108080-Poll-Growing-Number-Incorrectly-Call-Obama-Muslim
If there are incorrect premises or facts stated in those posts, please inform me. You gents are the experts, I'm just a rank amateur.
Get real.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/24/AR2007012400371_pf.html
http://www.biography.com/articles/Barack-Obama-12782369
NXI = (Fr + Hr) - (O + R + Ts)
And so it goes...
Richard :munchin
Get real..........
From your article
"......Obama's mother, divorced from Obama's father, married a man from Indonesia named Lolo Soetoro, and the family relocated to the country from 1967-71. At first, Obama attended the Catholic school, Fransiskus Assisis, where documents showed he enrolled as a Muslim, the religion of his stepfather.
The document required that each student choose one of five state-sanctioned religions when registering _ Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic or Protestant. Gibbs said he wasn't sure why the document had Obama listed as a Muslim........"
There is just enough truth in all the rumors to feed the fires of speculation.
Fact - his father and stepfather were both Muslims.
All of this swirls around the COLB and passport issues.
There is just enough truth in all the rumors to feed the fires of speculation.
Fact - his father and stepfather were both Muslims.
All of this swirls around the COLB and passport issues.
Which is probably why the WH released the image of Obama's passport last week with 2 lines blurred out.
As has been mentioned on here many times prior, Obama could very easily put it all to rest, and he he could have accomplished it along time ago.
If he wanted too.
Is our president either...An apostate of Islam, or a Muslim deceiving Kafirs in order to wage Jihad?
Or how about is our current POTUS someone who has lived among Muslims but is himself a Christian?
My Mom was a Lutheran but attended Catholic schools growing up - my Dad believed there was a God but refused to identify with or attend any specific church - I attended Sunday and Vacation Bible Schools at a Cypress Missionary Baptist Church growing up but have no idea what my parents may have marked on any paperwork for school or otherwise when I was 6-10 years old - I had TAC Air on the religious preference line of my ID tags until told I couldn't do that so changed it to other as I find all religious affiliations to be far less than they claim.
Which is probably why the WH released the image of Obama's passport last week with 2 lines blurred out.
White House offers glimpse of President Obama's passport; document shows birthplace as Hawaii
NYDailyNews, 17 Aug 2010
Could this be the final nail in the coffin for the "birther" conspiracy?
A video featured on the White House website included a surprising glimpse at President Obama's passport, showing further evidence that he was indeed born in the United States.
Seen briefly in a West Wing Week video posted over the weekend, the "Summer Edition" was dedicated to answering questions from regular citizens.
One of the questions, asked by Johnathan Talcott, of Pittsburgh, PA, concerned the President's passport. To answer it, Jordan Whichard, an administration trip coordinator, shows where Obama's passport is kept, and the document itself.
A close-up of the passport reveals only a few bits of information about the President, but they are specific to the question of where and when he was born.
The document shows that his nationality is "United States of America," that he was born on August 4, 1961, and that his "Place of Birth" was Hawaii, U.S.A.
In order to obtain a passport, an American must provide a "certified birth certificate issued by the city, country or state," according to the State Department website. This would suggest that President Obama would have had to show documentation proving when and where he was born in order to obtain the U.S. passport.
"Birthers," who have for nearly two years argued that Obama was not born in the United States, have insisted that he is not eligible to be President. The once-simple conspiracy has since spun into a web of wild theories and elaborate logic.
Some believe he is hiding his true birthplace, and that his certification of live birth (a recognized birth certificate), which his campaign posted online in 2008, is a fraud. They have argued he was really born in Kenya or Indonesia.
Others in the "birther" movement have moved away from his place of birth, and argue because his father was Kenyan, he is not a "natural born citizen," thus negating his election as President.
All of these arguments and claims have either been shown to be false, or incorrect. Officials have stated they have seen records regarding Obama's birth, and media pundits and commentators such as Glenn Beck (who called it the "dumbest thing I've ever heard") and Anderson Cooper have dismissed the "birther" conspiracy.
Some details on the passport, such as the date of issuance and expiration, were blurred out in the White House video, which may very well spin yet another chain of theories regarding the President's birth.
However, a recent Daily News online poll suggests that Americans are coming to terms with Obama's nationality. Ninety-five percent of the nearly 20,000 people who voted said the President was "definitely" born in the United States.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/08/17/2010-08-17_white_house_offers_glimpse_of_president_obamas_ passport_document_shows_birthplac.html
Animal8526
08-20-2010, 06:08
I couldn't care less where BHO was born. It's irrelevant. As far as I'm concerned he could have been born in a little farmhouse on Main street, Little Town America, USA and it no more makes him anything he is or is not.
Obama is not an American. He does not share American ideals, he spent his formative years in a place that is decidedly not American, being raised and surrounded by a culture that is as foreign to America as America is to it.
Where he was born, and what nationality he claims to waive the flag of are irrelevant. What I want to know, is it likely that the world's billion Muslims view the man as a Muslim?
But, in regarding the birther movement one can't help but taking note of the fact that the movement exists, or at least is partially fueled by, a distinct lack of transparency in this presidency.
Flashback to 2008 to an Op-Ed piece in the NYT.
May 12, 2008
Op-Ed Contributor
President Apostate?
By EDWARD N. LUTTWAK
Chevy Chase, Md.
BARACK OBAMA has emerged as a classic example of charismatic leadership — a figure upon whom others project their own hopes and desires. The resulting emotional intensity adds greatly to the more conventional strengths of the well-organized Obama campaign, and it has certainly sufficed to overcome the formidable initial advantages of Senator Hillary Clinton.
One danger of such charisma, however, is that it can evoke unrealistic hopes of what a candidate could actually accomplish in office regardless of his own personal abilities. Case in point is the oft-made claim that an Obama presidency would be welcomed by the Muslim world.
This idea often goes hand in hand with the altogether more plausible argument that Mr. Obama’s election would raise America’s esteem in Africa — indeed, he already arouses much enthusiasm in his father’s native Kenya and to a degree elsewhere on the continent.
But it is a mistake to conflate his African identity with his Muslim heritage. Senator Obama is half African by birth and Africans can understandably identify with him. In Islam, however, there is no such thing as a half-Muslim. Like all monotheistic religions, Islam is an exclusive faith.
As the son of the Muslim father, Senator Obama was born a Muslim under Muslim law as it is universally understood. It makes no difference that, as Senator Obama has written, his father said he renounced his religion. Likewise, under Muslim law based on the Koran his mother’s Christian background is irrelevant.
Of course, as most Americans understand it, Senator Obama is not a Muslim. He chose to become a Christian, and indeed has written convincingly to explain how he arrived at his choice and how important his Christian faith is to him.
His conversion, however, was a crime in Muslim eyes; it is “irtidad” or “ridda,” usually translated from the Arabic as “apostasy,” but with connotations of rebellion and treason. Indeed, it is the worst of all crimes that a Muslim can commit, worse than murder (which the victim’s family may choose to forgive).
With few exceptions, the jurists of all Sunni and Shiite schools prescribe execution for all adults who leave the faith not under duress; the recommended punishment is beheading at the hands of a cleric, although in recent years there have been both stonings and hangings. (Some may point to cases in which lesser punishments were ordered — as with some Egyptian intellectuals who have been punished for writings that were construed as apostasy — but those were really instances of supposed heresy, not explicitly declared apostasy as in Senator Obama’s case.)
It is true that the criminal codes in most Muslim countries do not mandate execution for apostasy (although a law doing exactly that is pending before Iran’s Parliament and in two Malaysian states). But as a practical matter, in very few Islamic countries do the governments have sufficient authority to resist demands for the punishment of apostates at the hands of religious authorities.
For example, in Iran in 1994 the intervention of Pope John Paul II and others won a Christian convert a last-minute reprieve, but the man was abducted and killed shortly after his release. Likewise, in 2006 in Afghanistan, a Christian convert had to be declared insane to prevent his execution, and he was still forced to flee to Italy.
Because no government is likely to allow the prosecution of a President Obama — not even those of Iran and Saudi Arabia, the only two countries where Islamic religious courts dominate over secular law — another provision of Muslim law is perhaps more relevant: it prohibits punishment for any Muslim who kills any apostate, and effectively prohibits interference with such a killing.
At the very least, that would complicate the security planning of state visits by President Obama to Muslim countries, because the very act of protecting him would be sinful for Islamic security guards. More broadly, most citizens of the Islamic world would be horrified by the fact of Senator Obama’s conversion to Christianity once it became widely known — as it would, no doubt, should he win the White House. This would compromise the ability of governments in Muslim nations to cooperate with the United States in the fight against terrorism, as well as American efforts to export democracy and human rights abroad.
That an Obama presidency would cause such complications in our dealings with the Islamic world is not likely to be a major factor with American voters, and the implication is not that it should be. But of all the well-meaning desires projected on Senator Obama, the hope that he would decisively improve relations with the world’s Muslims is the least realistic.
Edward N. Luttwak, a fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, is the author of “Strategy: The Logic of War and Peace.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/12/opinion/12luttwak.html?_r=2&pagewanted=print
It is all pre-midterm theatrics....
But wait! According to Wayne Madsen of waynemadsenreport dot com Obama is now a CIA creation. Whatever, whomever and where ever are mute points at this point in the GAME.
And even after smoke clears and he is gone (if he doesn't issue a Executive Order to be King), we'll have to contend with another chronic liar that will once again make grandiose campaign promises.....which will fall short.
Obama was not natural born, he was born by cesarean :D
Students travel to POKistan all the time for foreign relations training. Obama’s mentors were superb, Wahid Hamid and Mohammed Hasan Chandoo, they went just two years after Corporal Crowley and Warrant Officer Brian Ellis were killed.
The Reaper
08-20-2010, 07:20
Does anyone here seriously think they could obtain a basic Secret security clearance with the serious lack of documentation and records, admitted substance abuse issues, suspicious financial transactions, and criminal associates that the POTUS has maintained or been discovered with?
I do not think he could be cleared to be hired to work in the White House as a secretary with his known history, much less whatever he is hiding.
TR
Does anyone here think they could obtain a basic Secret security clearance with the lack of documantation, substance abuse, and associates that the POTUS has admitted to or been discovered with?
TR
No. Rather ironic.
Does anyone here seriously think they could obtain a basic Secret security clearance with the serious lack of documentation and records, admitted substance abuse issues, suspicious financial transactions, and criminal associates that the POTUS has maintained or been discovered with?
I do not think he could be cleared to be hired to work in the White House as a secretary with his known history, much less whatever he is hiding.
TR
exactly
I co sign entire post :lifter
Does anyone here seriously think they could obtain a basic Secret security clearance with the serious lack of documentation and records, admitted substance abuse issues, suspicious financial transactions, and criminal associates that the POTUS has maintained or been discovered with?
I do not think he could be cleared to be hired to work in the White House as a secretary with his known history, much less whatever he is hiding.
TR
Not the first President of this century that much of this and possibly more couldn't be said about. :rolleyes:
I do not think he could be cleared to be hired to work in the White House as a secretary with his known history, much less whatever he is hiding.
Learning about the Soomro family and Yassin Kadi has my curiosity piqued :D
Eagle5US
08-20-2010, 08:13
Not the first President of this century that much of this and possibly more couldn't be said about. :rolleyes:
Not really the point when you consider the actions of this particular POTUS in addition to the remaining pieces of the "hidden" puzzle.
Eagle
Not really the point when you consider the actions of this particular POTUS in addition to the remaining pieces of the "hidden" puzzle.
Eagle
Eagle
I guess I just don't understand what all these "actions" are. When I first started reading the posts here there was a rule somewhere that any discussions about the president had to be civil. Since we have a new president that rule seems to be thrown out the window. I have read where he intends to shred the constitution. I think that is bullshit. It was the previous administration that contended they were above all law. (I voted for Bush, I was still a Republican then). He is questioned on his birth and religion. But how many questioned GWB's ties to the Kuwaiti's? (Remember Harkin Oil) or Cheney's ties to Halliburton (sorry folks, he was one of the worst CEO's in the history of the oil industry). Everyone accuses him of trying to control guns. Bullshit. Number one, the courts have the final decision and number 2, the democrats KNOW that on the national level gun control can gain no votes but LOSE a whole bunch. THEY AIN't TOUCHING THAT ONE. Sorry, but Health Care Reform was passed in congress in the legally accepted manner. And here is one which I sincerely hope the QP"S can explain to me because I am really baffled. I have always felt we REALLY screwed up in Iraq and Afghanistan. Not the soldiers, who, when I think of the job they did, I get all emotional. But on the civilian side. It seems we (please correct me if I am wrong) snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in Afghanistan. To a dumb ass civilian, it seems the President is doing more to achieve some sort of success in Afghanistan in the 1 1/2 years he has been in office than the previous 8 years. Troup levels are up and a plan is in place.The number of high level AQ killed in the last year by drone attacks is greater than at any time in the previous administration. Shouldn't he get some credit? I am not trying to be an asshole, but it just seems when it comes to the current President there seems to be a vitriolic atmosphere which I feel is not totally deserved. Why? I have my opinions but I think everyone should search their own souls for that answer.
Eagle5US
08-20-2010, 09:18
Eagle
I have my opinions but I think everyone should search their own souls for that answer.
I agree with this statement.
However, I also feel that the discussions that have been presented on PS.com regarding the sitting POTUS and his policies have been, educated, well researched, and represented with numerous examples. Persons who present a specific POV / opinion are allowed that POV / opinion, just as you are. Examples of "I heard this" or "I read that" are either supported by credible sources or they are not considered valid / acceptable. Many of those examples have been presented on these boards. No one here does not respect the office of the President.
That being said, many are convinced that POTUS is "the answer" and their is no amount of credibility to offered proof, no number of examples, no sound byte, no video clip, no personal or professional association, no poll, no number that our National debt will surpass that will ever change their mind.
Attempting to present a contrary point to this particular group is an effort in futility.
I have my opinion, and the American people are beginning to develop their own opinion as well, seeing as how latest polls show 24% now believe POTUS is indeed a Muslim.
My answer is crystal clear.
Eagle
I'm leaning towards the Bellamy Brothers on this one... ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4j_9IQ6wzk
Richard :munchin
For the record I support wine, women, ammo, and jalapenos ....(though order is important)
Whatever it says on paper, doesn't it seem evident the only faith Obama has, is belief in his own hubris? If he had dog tags the last line would read POLITICAL EXPEDIENCY.
It isn't a news flash that politicians lie, there are a rare few who are strong leaders with conviction, IMHO this isn't one of them. What makes the Muslims special that when politically expedient he won't sell them out alongside, unions, Christians, plumbers, the Vienna Boys Choir, you name it? He has already backtracked on his Mosque comments, whatever side of this issue you fall on.
Ironically, some of the criticisms of him are as fickle as he is. He has somehow pulled off being taken to task for both his ties to the Church of that nut job pastor Reverend Wright, but also accused of being a closet Muslim. Now this takes talent, I suppose now he could try for the trifecta, and publicly convert to Judaism, so as to alienate everyone equally.
He is a modern day Alcibiades, albeit a poor man's version in terms of charm and brass. A narcissistic silver tongued rascal who went from side to side leaving a dubious wake.
A narcissistic silver tongued rascal who went from side to side leaving a dubious wake.
Slicker than Willie :D
Peregrino
08-20-2010, 20:41
Clinton and Carter both should be ecstatic. By the time "O"'s finished they'll be rehabilitated, maybe almost as good as Reagan. :munchin