Ensign Claims Aviator Call Signs Get Too Personal

[Richard]

Talk about a 'distractor' for a command and a disunifying force within a unit - and the reassignment for Ensign Crowston to...:eek:

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

Navy Man Claims Aviator Call Signs Get Too Personal
Time, 17 Aug 2010

In the testosterone-laden world of military aviation, call signs for pilots and other squadron personnel can be really sticky — the more an aviator complains about the moniker his colleagues bestow upon him, the tighter its grip will be.

Over the years, that has led to lots of embarrassing call signs beyond the famous one brandished by Tom Cruise — Lieutenant Pete "Maverick" Mitchell — in the movie Top Gun. A rookie Navy aviator can end up being called "Torch" if he sports red hair — or if he's too quick to turn on his afterburner. A pilot who struggles to fit into his flight suit can be dubbed "Shamu." But as barriers to the once insular, made-up-of-white-men world have fallen — first to minorities, then women and, maybe soon, openly gay personnel — what's an edgy call sign to one person could be seen as an offensive epithet by another.

That's what led Ensign Steve Crowston to complain, he says, after Navy aviators in Strike Fighter Squadron 136 in Oceana, Va., considered many humiliating call signs for him before settling on "Romo's Bitch," a reference to their suspicion that the fan of Dallas Cowboys quarterback Tony Romo was gay. Crowston says the various options had been written on a whiteboard for an Aug. 17, 2009, "call-sign review" in the unit's ready room, where more than a dozen officers would decide which one would be most appropriate for several new squadron members. "I saw my name at the top of the board, and I saw 'Gay Boy,' 'Fagmeister,' 'Romo's Bitch,' 'Redskins,' 'Cowgirl' written underneath. I was stunned and shocked that I was sitting in the ready room with those kinds of words up on the board," Crowston says. "The commanding officer and executive officer" — the unit's top two officers — "were voting members, and they allowed the whole room to vote on my call sign. They went line by line, word by word, and they voted, and the one that got the most votes was 'Romo's Bitch.' "

Crowston, an administrative officer in the squadron and not an aviator, calls his sexual orientation "irrelevant" and wouldn't say whether he is gay. But he did complain, first within his unit and then to the office of the local Navy inspector general (IG), about workplace harassment. While the independent Navy Times newspaper reported last week that the IG found his complaint to be "unsubstantiated," Navy officers at the Pentagon later said the investigation has been reopened and that an additional inquiry into the squadron's command climate — and how the first investigation was handled — has been launched by Navy IG headquarters.

Navy officers at Oceana, citing the continuing investigation, won't detail what transpired in the ready room that day. They maintain that Crowston's overall performance at the unit was mediocre at best. They suggest that he complained to the IG six months after the ready-room session, and then only because he feared for his 16-year career. They and other officers say such informal call-sign reviews were simply a way to share some laughs with new members of the squadron. "Steve never had any call sign and was never addressed as anything but Steve, Mr. Crowston or Ensign Crowston," says Commander Liam "Bruno" Bruen, an F-18 pilot who was the unit's commanding officer until last month.

Still, the episode has raised the issue of questionable call signs, and Crowston has turned his allegations into a much broader campaign for change. In letters to some lawmakers on Capitol Hill, Crowston said he saw a pilot's name with the call sign "Dicks.com" flashed on a screen as part of an official PowerPoint briefing. "I discovered 'Dicks.com' had been engraved on a coffee mug and beer stein in [his unit's] ready room and was hung next to the Admiral's and the Carrier Air Wing Commander's coffee cups," Crowston said in a letter sent last month. "The chain of command is not willing to identify a systemic problem in the aviation community regarding inappropriate call signs."

But former Navy Secretary and aviator John "Toad" Lehman disagrees. "I've been in and around naval aviation for like 40 years, and I've never heard of a call sign that had a nasty turn to it," says Lehman, who ran the Navy in the Reagan Administration and flew A-6 jets as a Navy Reserve aviator. The notion that call-sign guidelines need updating "is a crock," he says. "It's the first time I've ever heard of someone making an issue of a call sign," Lehman adds. "Certainly they would never pick on a gay guy like that."

You too funny Peter-san! :D

Call signs — one- or two-word nicknames assigned by fellow pilots to facilitate radio communications in the sky — date to the dawn of aviation. There are no written rules governing their creation, and traditions surrounding them vary from unit to unit. Navy officers say calls signs can poke fun at aviators and their foibles but shouldn't be anything you couldn't explain to Mom.

"They can be a little bit ribald, but not too much," a Navy officer says. "And we count on our squadron leaders to keep it that way." One sign, "Groper," was frowned upon following the 1991 Tailhook scandal, when naval aviators sexually harassed and abused women during their annual convention in Las Vegas — even though the handle was a reference to the pilot's inability to feel for the cockpit controls while hooded during training. Lieutenant Kara Hultgreen, killed in 1994 while trying to land her F-14 aboard a carrier, was dubbed "Hulk" for her ability to bench-press 200 lb., until her fame as a female top gun (and the makeup her TV appearances required) led colleagues to change it to "Revlon."

The key players in the ready-room incident are moving on, and up. Crowston has been assigned to a SEAL team support unit in Little Creek, Va., and could soon head off to Afghanistan or Iraq. Bruen, his former commander, will soon become the No. 3 officer aboard the carrier U.S.S. John C. Stennis. And Commander Damien "Satan" Christopher, who was the No. 2 officer in the Oceana unit, is now its commander and is training for combat with the squadron aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise at sea.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2011189,00.html

[Irishsquid]

And this thin-skinned POS joined the Navy? Seriously? Then again, I do remember having to give 6 hours "extra-military instruction," on sexual harassment, after accusing a shipmate of "loving the cock," when apparently a female officer was nearby.

[Peregrino]

He's an Ensign worried about a "16 year career". Tell's me there's more to the story. I wonder what his call sign will be after a few months at Little Creek?

[AF IDMT]

When we would have namings in the squadron we would have the list of names with the votes, but if you didn't like your name you could "buy" your way out of it. A round of drinks for everyone at the naming got you a new call sign. The trick was to stop when it was just bad enough that you could stand it, because you never knew what was coming up next.

And whining about your name was NEVER tolerated. But then again, I got stuck with "Shrek." (Anyone who has seen what I look like would understand.) :D

[Utah Bob]

Hilarious.:D

Perhaps he just bears a striking resemblance to Jessica Simpson.
That would explain it.

[TOMAHAWK9521]

The repercussions when call signs get too personal.....:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW3dg9VURMU

[JAGO]

We are gradually turning the military into civil servants with all the problems that entails. Several events including this article lead me to the conclusion. Amongst them,

I don't advocate cursing at recruits and they outlawed that. But I did smile watching the first half of "Full Metal Jacket" (admitedly a USMC move) and recalled we seemed to be a "harder" Army back in the days when a Drill Sergeant could get your attention. I went thru Basic Training back in '73 and think I am a better individual for that. No "time out" cards, no waivers for PT and Ht and Wt (something to be "fixed" when you get to your permanent asisgnment)

"Tailhook" was wrong, but in trying to remedy that event, there are reports the Navy lowered standards to increase the representation of females in the aviation ranks. Historically, we have used the military to achieve social change, but standards in my opinion, should never be lowered. We risk survival of the nation when we do so.

This administration is going to ram DADT down our throats (Take it easy, Dozier:D) and you are seeing part of it in this administrative officer's complaint (JEEZUS he ain't even a pilot) and the fact that it makes news. Poor Navy, this is going to be a "mini tailhook" with good careers being hammered.
This Lieutenant's feeling got hurt - look at how long he's been in the military. So as a result, we are going to take pit bulls, cut their nuts off, and hope they are gentle in the future. I dig the way he (and the reporter) say he won't reveal his sexual orientation. Get the hint - this is agenda driven,

God help us, it's only a matter of time before the female latrines are installed down in Team rooms (just as they are being installed on the boomers).....

RANT OFF
v/r
phil

[1stindoor]

On a "slight" side note...I highly recommend people read "The Kinder Gentler Military." This was written and published prior to 9/11...yet most of what she wrote still rings true.

[greenberetTFS]

I took SFTG in 1964 and I can't remember having any of the cadre ever swearing at me at any time during my training............ Now Basic,that was another story,I took it in 1955 and that cadre swore at us almost all the time.......... Jump school's cadre never swore at us either,took it in 1955..........I think it's the quality of the branch of service you are training with......;)

Big Teddy :munchin

[Dozer523]

This is not an "oh, man up" issue. It's bullying.

Bullying, v. "A person is bullied when he or she is exposed, repeatedly and over time, to negative actions on the part of one or more other persons, and he or she has difficulty defending himself or herself."

This definition includes three important components:

1. Bullying is aggressive behavior that involves unwanted, negative actions.
2. Bullying involves a pattern of behavior repeated over time.
3. Bullying involves an imbalance of power or strength.

When does teasing become taunting? When the victim can do nothing about it, the on-lookers join in or don't do anything about it. The bully has no reason to stop and every reason to continue or increase the meanness.

It's wrong.

[Guy]

Your post...He wouldn't last at all amongst the natives, they'd take advantage of him every chance they could or he'd go to the other extreme......

Stay safe.

[Pete]

I took SFTG in 1964 and I can't remember having any of the cadre ever swearing at me at any time during my training............ Now Basic,that was another story,I took it in 1955 and that cadre swore at us almost all the time.......... Jump school's cadre never swore at us either,took it in 1955..........I think it's the quality of the branch of service you are training with......;)

Big Teddy :munchin

I seem to recall that one of the favorite shouts was "GET YOUR GOAT SMELLIN' ASS OUTTA' HERE!" or ".....OVER HERE!" or "....IN THE FRONT LEANING....." or "....IN THE DYING...... "

[Richard]

I seem to recall that one of the favorite shouts was "GET YOUR GOAT SMELLIN' ASS OUTTA' HERE!" or ".....OVER HERE!" or "....IN THE FRONT LEANING....." or "....IN THE DYING...... "

Usually followed by "...BEFORE I PUT MY BOOT SO FAR UP IT YOUR GOAT ASS BREATH IS GONNA SMELL LIKE KIWI* FOR A MONTH!"

That phrase and technique must've been taught in the old ITC. ;)

Richard :munchin

* Kiwi brand boot polish.

[mark46th]

He complained about this so he was assigned to a SEAL unit? Someone has a sense of humor. That's the best one I have seen since Jimmy Bakker was assigned the same cell as Lyndon LaRouche at the federal prison in Minnesota...

[Dozer523]

He wouldn't last at all amongst the natives, they'd take advantage of him every chance they could or he'd go to the other extreme......

Stay safe.He's a Navy guy. How much more extreme can it get?

[craigepo]

This is not an "oh, man up" issue. It's bullying.

Bullying, v. "A person is bullied when he or she is exposed, repeatedly and over time, to negative actions on the part of one or more other persons, and he or she has difficulty defending himself or herself."

This definition includes three important components:

1. Bullying is aggressive behavior that involves unwanted, negative actions.
2. Bullying involves a pattern of behavior repeated over time.
3. Bullying involves an imbalance of power or strength.

When does teasing become taunting? When the victim can do nothing about it, the on-lookers join in or don't do anything about it. The bully has no reason to stop and every reason to continue or increase the meanness.

It's wrong.

Crap. I thought we used to just have fun at other people's expense in the team room.

I wonder how this guy would do at 2/75, when we used to do "caterpillar drills", bouncing up and down stairs in sleeping bags. Really wouldn't have like "space invaders", when the privates had to put on k-pots and flak vests and walk back and forth in the hall, getting closer to the Spec-4 mafia, who were busy drinking bottles of beer, then using the empties as ammo to throw at the invaders.

Ahhh, those were the good old days. Or not.

[LarryW]

He's a Navy guy. How much more extreme can it get?

Let me see...he could wannabe a Cardinal fan. No, that'd be too much.

:D

[alright4u]

Talk about a 'distractor' for a command and a disunifying force within a unit - and the reassignment for Ensign Crowston to...:eek:

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

Navy Man Claims Aviator Call Signs Get Too Personal
Time, 17 Aug 2010

In the testosterone-laden world of military aviation, call signs for pilots and other squadron personnel can be really sticky — the more an aviator complains about the moniker his colleagues bestow upon him, the tighter its grip will be.

Over the years, that has led to lots of embarrassing call signs beyond the famous one brandished by Tom Cruise — Lieutenant Pete "Maverick" Mitchell — in the movie Top Gun. A rookie Navy aviator can end up being called "Torch" if he sports red hair — or if he's too quick to turn on his afterburner. A pilot who struggles to fit into his flight suit can be dubbed "Shamu." But as barriers to the once insular, made-up-of-white-men world have fallen — first to minorities, then women and, maybe soon, openly gay personnel — what's an edgy call sign to one person could be seen as an offensive epithet by another.

That's what led Ensign Steve Crowston to complain, he says, after Navy aviators in Strike Fighter Squadron 136 in Oceana, Va., considered many humiliating call signs for him before settling on "Romo's Bitch," a reference to their suspicion that the fan of Dallas Cowboys quarterback Tony Romo was gay. Crowston says the various options had been written on a whiteboard for an Aug. 17, 2009, "call-sign review" in the unit's ready room, where more than a dozen officers would decide which one would be most appropriate for several new squadron members. "I saw my name at the top of the board, and I saw 'Gay Boy,' 'Fagmeister,' 'Romo's Bitch,' 'Redskins,' 'Cowgirl' written underneath. I was stunned and shocked that I was sitting in the ready room with those kinds of words up on the board," Crowston says. "The commanding officer and executive officer" — the unit's top two officers — "were voting members, and they allowed the whole room to vote on my call sign. They went line by line, word by word, and they voted, and the one that got the most votes was 'Romo's Bitch.' "

Crowston, an administrative officer in the squadron and not an aviator, calls his sexual orientation "irrelevant" and wouldn't say whether he is gay. But he did complain, first within his unit and then to the office of the local Navy inspector general (IG), about workplace harassment. While the independent Navy Times newspaper reported last week that the IG found his complaint to be "unsubstantiated," Navy officers at the Pentagon later said the investigation has been reopened and that an additional inquiry into the squadron's command climate — and how the first investigation was handled — has been launched by Navy IG headquarters.

Navy officers at Oceana, citing the continuing investigation, won't detail what transpired in the ready room that day. They maintain that Crowston's overall performance at the unit was mediocre at best. They suggest that he complained to the IG six months after the ready-room session, and then only because he feared for his 16-year career. They and other officers say such informal call-sign reviews were simply a way to share some laughs with new members of the squadron. "Steve never had any call sign and was never addressed as anything but Steve, Mr. Crowston or Ensign Crowston," says Commander Liam "Bruno" Bruen, an F-18 pilot who was the unit's commanding officer until last month.

Still, the episode has raised the issue of questionable call signs, and Crowston has turned his allegations into a much broader campaign for change. In letters to some lawmakers on Capitol Hill, Crowston said he saw a pilot's name with the call sign "Dicks.com" flashed on a screen as part of an official PowerPoint briefing. "I discovered 'Dicks.com' had been engraved on a coffee mug and beer stein in [his unit's] ready room and was hung next to the Admiral's and the Carrier Air Wing Commander's coffee cups," Crowston said in a letter sent last month. "The chain of command is not willing to identify a systemic problem in the aviation community regarding inappropriate call signs."

But former Navy Secretary and aviator John "Toad" Lehman disagrees. "I've been in and around naval aviation for like 40 years, and I've never heard of a call sign that had a nasty turn to it," says Lehman, who ran the Navy in the Reagan Administration and flew A-6 jets as a Navy Reserve aviator. The notion that call-sign guidelines need updating "is a crock," he says. "It's the first time I've ever heard of someone making an issue of a call sign," Lehman adds. "Certainly they would never pick on a gay guy like that."

You too funny Peter-san! :D

Call signs — one- or two-word nicknames assigned by fellow pilots to facilitate radio communications in the sky — date to the dawn of aviation. There are no written rules governing their creation, and traditions surrounding them vary from unit to unit. Navy officers say calls signs can poke fun at aviators and their foibles but shouldn't be anything you couldn't explain to Mom.

"They can be a little bit ribald, but not too much," a Navy officer says. "And we count on our squadron leaders to keep it that way." One sign, "Groper," was frowned upon following the 1991 Tailhook scandal, when naval aviators sexually harassed and abused women during their annual convention in Las Vegas — even though the handle was a reference to the pilot's inability to feel for the cockpit controls while hooded during training. Lieutenant Kara Hultgreen, killed in 1994 while trying to land her F-14 aboard a carrier, was dubbed "Hulk" for her ability to bench-press 200 lb., until her fame as a female top gun (and the makeup her TV appearances required) led colleagues to change it to "Revlon."

The key players in the ready-room incident are moving on, and up. Crowston has been assigned to a SEAL team support unit in Little Creek, Va., and could soon head off to Afghanistan or Iraq. Bruen, his former commander, will soon become the No. 3 officer aboard the carrier U.S.S. John C. Stennis. And Commander Damien "Satan" Christopher, who was the No. 2 officer in the Oceana unit, is now its commander and is training for combat with the squadron aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise at sea.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2011189,00.html

This gay military being pushed hard now will create many command problems.

[NoRoadtrippin]

This is not an "oh, man up" issue. It's bullying.

Bullying, v. "A person is bullied when he or she is exposed, repeatedly and over time, to negative actions on the part of one or more other persons, and he or she has difficulty defending himself or herself."

This definition includes three important components:

1. Bullying is aggressive behavior that involves unwanted, negative actions.
2. Bullying involves a pattern of behavior repeated over time.
3. Bullying involves an imbalance of power or strength.

When does teasing become taunting? When the victim can do nothing about it, the on-lookers join in or don't do anything about it. The bully has no reason to stop and every reason to continue or increase the meanness.

It's wrong.

I agree with Dozer on this one. This is a bit over the top. And beyond the issue of whether or not gays should openly serve, I think it says a lot about the shortsightedness of the other officers involved. Could one of these bright, high speed pilots not see the writing on the wall with this one?

I'm no naval aviator, but I carry a nickname with me from a certain running club I belong to. From that, I can say that the key is definitely to poke fun at something less than intelligent that a person has done. Not to outright shame them for a part of they (potentially) are. My take on these call signs is that it ought to be the same way. This just wasn't a smart idea on the part of the other unit members. It was asking for undue attention.

And for those knocking his 16 years as an Ensign...what about prior service? I went to IBOLC and such with plenty of LTs that had 12 or 14 years in service as enlisted men. Just a thought.

[alright4u]

I agree with Dozer on this one. This is a bit over the top. And beyond the issue of whether or not gays should openly serve, I think it says a lot about the shortsightedness of the other officers involved. Could one of these bright, high speed pilots not see the writing on the wall with this one?

I'm no naval aviator, but I carry a nickname with me from a certain running club I belong to. From that, I can say that the key is definitely to poke fun at something less than intelligent that a person has done. Not to outright shame them for a part of they (potentially) are. My take on these call signs is that it ought to be the same way. This just wasn't a smart idea on the part of the other unit members. It was asking for undue attention.

And for those knocking his 16 years as an Ensign...what about prior service? I went to IBOLC and such with plenty of LTs that had 12 or 14 years in service as enlisted men. Just a thought.

You ever try real BCT, real AIT, real OCS,? Was all this ARNG training?

[alright4u]

No E-7 or above is going to take a direct commission to 2LT.

[1stindoor]

No E-7 or above is going to take a direct commission to 2LT.

I think there may be some PA's that'll argue that point.

[NoRoadtrippin]

You ever try real BCT, real AIT, real OCS,? Was all this ARNG training?

"Real" BCT, AIT, or OCS? I'm not sure why you chose to take a stab at me... My post had nothing to do with any training I may or may not have been to, and had nothing to do with the differences between the active and Guard components. But yeah, I've been to some "real" training. And QP or not, I strongly resent the implication that somehow serving as a Guard officer precludes me from understanding "real" training, or the "real" military. I will be the first to agree that we see a limited side of the day to day life of a Soldier by only serving one weekend a month during most of our time. However, last time I checked there was only one school that builds Infantry officers, and only one version of a number of other schools I have attended.

My post made the argument--which I stick by--that these naval officers might have done well to consider the current climate, consider the possible ramifications, and the purpose behind the call signs before choosing something quite like "Romo's Bitch." Especially if they already suspected this particular Ensign might actually be gay. I mean come on, that's just asking for a problem. It was shortsighted.

My service in the National Guard has zero to do with that opinion.

[NoRoadtrippin]

I think there may be some PA's that'll argue that point.

I would agree with this as well. There are myriad reasons that someone might switch from enlisted to officer. There might be plenty of good cause to switch from an E7 or E8 retirement to that of an O3 if it also meant the Army was paying for your newly acquired bachelor's, master's, etc. Plus it of course opens different doors in retirement job searching.

Of course, I have no idea whether or not this Ensign did such. I just thought it might be a potential explanation. I doubt he sat on Ensign for 16 years.

[Dozer523]

huh? Hang on I'll be back.

[Saoirse]

After reading that article, first thing that came to mind was R. Lee Ermey...."why dont we skip on over to mamby pamby land and get you some self confidence!!!"
Give me a break. This kind of razzing has been a time long tradition. Why and when has my beloved MILITARY turned into a bunch of liberal, headpatting, asskissing, cowtowing, whining, lil girlie girls!!!?? OMG!! :mad:
Are there any REAL MEN left in the military or have they all retired or left planet earth??!!!

[alright4u]

I think there may be some PA's that'll argue that point.

PA's came about in 75. I understand a PA.

[alright4u]

"Real" BCT, AIT, or OCS? I'm not sure why you chose to take a stab at me... My post had nothing to do with any training I may or may not have been to, and had nothing to do with the differences between the active and Guard components. But yeah, I've been to some "real" training. And QP or not, I strongly resent the implication that somehow serving as a Guard officer precludes me from understanding "real" training, or the "real" military. I will be the first to agree that we see a limited side of the day to day life of a Soldier by only serving one weekend a month during most of our time. However, last time I checked there was only one school that builds Infantry officers, and only one version of a number of other schools I have attended.

My post made the argument--which I stick by--that these naval officers might have done well to consider the current climate, consider the possible ramifications, and the purpose behind the call signs before choosing something quite like "Romo's Bitch." Especially if they already suspected this particular Ensign might actually be gay. I mean come on, that's just asking for a problem. It was shortsighted.

My service in the National Guard has zero to do with that opinion.

I do not have time for gays in the military. One is all over wikileaks. How many more we need?

[Dozer523]

I agree with Dozer on this one. This is a bit over the top. And beyond the issue of whether or not gays should openly serve, I think it says a lot about the shortsightedness of the other officers involved. Could one of these bright, high speed pilots not see the writing on the wall with this one? You ever try real BCT, real AIT, real OCS,? Was all this ARNG training?"Real" BCT, AIT, or OCS? I'm not sure why you chose to take a stab at me... My post had nothing to do with any training I may or may not have been to, and had nothing to do with the differences between the active and Guard components. But yeah, I've been to some "real" training.Wow. did anyone else miss the traffic sign that mentioned this thread was about to go over the cliff? WTF does this have to do with RA vs Reserve/NG? I've served in both, overseas, and the training and operations were pretty real in both."why dont we skip on over to mamby pamby land and get you some self confidence!!!" Give me a break. This kind of razzing has been a time long tradition. Why and when has my beloved MILITARY turned into a bunch of liberal, headpatting, asskissing, cowtowing, whining, lil girlie girls!!!?? OMG!! :mad:
Are there any REAL MEN left in the military or have they all retired or left planet earth??!!!My point is . . . Bullying is wrong and detrimental to good order and combat effectiveness. Tough, hard training and bullying have nothing in common except that bullies tell you its the same thing.
Physical, emotional, verbal stress in training is useful because it challenges, it is directed at all, in equal proportion, it builds comradere among the students. You can overcome to succeed in stressful training. It's goal is a skillset.
Bullying degrades. Bullying is directed at an individual and seperates them from the group usually because of some feature -- color, size, national origin; bullying fosters a "glad its you not me" dynamic. Bullies don't want the bullied to succeed, they thrive on the others failure. The Bully's goal is misery.
The case in point is not a training situation.

One of the reasons I joined Special Forces was that I hate bullies.
SF has confronted and destroyed a lot of bullies. There is little difference among the Soviet Unions, Sandinistas. Saddams, Noregas and Milosevecs and the "I-got-mine-now-you-get-yours types we're discussing here.

As for where have all the REAL men gone,(cue band: I Need A Hero), I don't know. I think I'll just drink my warm cocoa, put on my 'jamies, climb into my nice warm bed and try to dream about when I was a REAL man -- doing macho manly man things with my macho manly men - - a few days ago.

As for the "headpatting, asskissing, cowtowing, whining, lil girlie girls" those guys are called bullies.

[wet dog]

No E-7 or above is going to take a direct commission to 2LT.

With the exception of one I know.

SFC/E7 SF Engineer type goes OCS, just one year after finishing his undergraduate degree in Civil Engineering, he's 32 at the time. After IOBC, he works in the Bn S3 shop until he makes 02, (age 34), then to a Dive Team ODA as the interim XO. He then returns to Ft. Bragg to attend 18A Phase II & III, (age 35), followed by orders to attend SWCD course, Key West. In addition to receiving orders for promtion, 03, he has a birthday and turns 36 the same week while in dive training.

He returns and assumes command of ODA, truth be said, he was one of the finest Tm Leaders I ever served under, I, being a very young E5 at the time. Given also his age, his graduation from Key West was a real inspiration to us younger troopers. In the mid to late 80's, there was not a lot of money for training. The S3 shop had to consider the challenge of balancing monies for soldiers they thought who could graduate from those who needed courses for advancement. I attended Pre-scuba at Ft. Carson, and accompanying course POI and PT at 6,000 ft., while giving up on Op funds so another soldier could attend ANCOC/O&I.

I never attended dive school at Key West, served only 18 months on that team, but it was a great team, good memories, excellent training.

Years later, I ran into my old Tm Leader, he an 05, Bn Commander pins my E8 stripes.

It was kinda cool.

[alright4u]

With the exception of one I know.

SFC/E7 SF Engineer type goes OCS, just one year after finishing his undergraduate degree in Civil Engineering, he's 32 at the time. After IOBC, he works in the Bn S3 shop until he makes 02, (age 34), then to a Dive Team ODA as the interim XO. He then returns to Ft. Bragg to attend 18A Phase II & III, (age 35), followed by orders to attend SWCD course, Key West. In addition to receiving orders for promtion, 03, he has a birthday and turns 36 the same week while in dive training.

He returns and assumes command of ODA, truth be said, he was one of the finest Tm Leaders I ever served under, I, being a very young E5 at the time. Given also his age, his graduation from Key West was a real inspiration to us younger troopers. In the mid to late 80's, there was not a lot of money for training. The S3 shop had to consider the challenge of balancing monies for soldiers they thought who could graduate from those who needed courses for advancement. I attended Pre-scuba at Ft. Carson, and accompanying course POI and PT at 6,000 ft., while giving up on Op funds so another soldier could attend ANCOC/O&I.

I never attended dive school at Key West, served only 18 months on that team, but it was a great team, good memories, excellent training.

Years later, I ran into my old Tm Leader, he an 05, Bn Commander pins my E8 stripes.

It was kinda cool.

This man has orders for two promotions already?

[Mitch]

Found some good Air Force Call signs at this site: http://www.f-16.net/callsigns-R.html

Here are a few examples just from the letter R (to include Romo):

Rectum
Lt. in JROTC, just graduated this year. Known school wide as an egotistical, know-it-all @$$ho1e, hence "Rectum." He also wrecked his first car, a '98 Ford Explorer in a "ran a red light" incident; also killed a bird that flew into his car while going 80 on the highway (it's still there, by the way) and resulted in a large dent in his hood. He's also an all around speeder, hence "Rectum" = "Wrecked 'em."

Revlon
My fellow pilots in my ANG unit have little to no imagination. Wouldn't guess I was the only female aviator would you:)

Romo
Our instructor is from Texas and a big Cowboys fan. One of the students, being a Washington Redskins fan, told the instructor to take his Cowboys hat off and gave him crap the whole time. To get back at him we gave the student "Romo" after of course Tony Romo the Dallas quarterback

Rain Man
One night in a drunken stupor he urinated on his passed out buddy.


Here is one from the O list - a good example of be careful of what you ask for.

Omelet
Dutch pilot wanted to be called bouncer cause he used to be one at a club in Holland. Bouncer in dutch ("Uitsmijter") also means grilled egg. The squadron decided Bouncer sounded too cool so called him omelet. Lesson learned: NEVER ask for your own callsign!

[Richard]

...in dutch ("Uitsmijter") also means grilled egg...

It's really more of a kind of a meat sandwich with a fried egg - kinda like a Leberkäse mit Eier type of meal. Persoanlly - I preferred the Leberkäse mit Eier...but that's MOO. ;)

But omelet does have a better 'ring' to it. :D

Now - re: CS Revlon - that one's an interesting story. http://www.amazon.com/Call-Sign-Revlon-Fighter-Hultgreen/dp/1557508097

Richard :munchin

[1stindoor]

Now - re: CS Revlon - that one's an interesting story. http://www.amazon.com/Call-Sign-Revlon-Fighter-Hultgreen/dp/1557508097

Richard :munchin

I knew I knew that name. I remember when that all came out.

[Saoirse]

Wow. did anyone else miss the traffic sign that mentioned this thread was about to go over the cliff? WTF does this have to do with RA vs Reserve/NG? I've served in both, overseas, and the training and operations were pretty real in both.My point is . . . Bullying is wrong and detrimental to good order and combat effectiveness. Tough, hard training and bullying have nothing in common except that bullies tell you its the same thing.
Physical, emotional, verbal stress in training is useful because it challenges, it is directed at all, in equal proportion, it builds comradere among the students. You can overcome to succeed in stressful training. It's goal is a skillset.
Bullying degrades. Bullying is directed at an individual and seperates them from the group usually because of some feature -- color, size, national origin; bullying fosters a "glad its you not me" dynamic. Bullies don't want the bullied to succeed, they thrive on the others failure. The Bully's goal is misery.
The case in point is not a training situation.

One of the reasons I joined Special Forces was that I hate bullies.
SF has confronted and destroyed a lot of bullies. There is little difference among the Soviet Unions, Sandinistas. Saddams, Noregas and Milosevecs and the "I-got-mine-now-you-get-yours types we're discussing here.

As for where have all the REAL men gone,(cue band: I Need A Hero), I don't know. I think I'll just drink my warm cocoa, put on my 'jamies, climb into my nice warm bed and try to dream about when I was a REAL man -- doing macho manly man things with my macho manly men - - a few days ago.

As for the "headpatting, asskissing, cowtowing, whining, lil girlie girls" those guys are called bullies.

Dozer,
Maybe I am misunderstanding you here but I wasn't directing my comments at you regarding this thread or what you said.

It is my opinion, as well as experiences growing up, that boys will razz one another, especially when they know they are getting somebody's back up! Why? Cuz that is just how it rolls. Honestly, there are some days where you are the bully and some days where you are the bullied. I guess it depends on whether the individual is strong enough to take the BS, roll with it or do something about it. My brother taught me a long time ago..."put up or shut up". If that guy had not whined about his nickname, it would have quickly become a non-issue. Hey, even as a girl I had nicknames I didn't care for BUT...if I had opened my mouth and whined about...I'd still be walking around with one or two of them.

It's not like they were taping his buttcheeks together with ducttape in the locker room.

[Dozer523]

Dozer,
My brother taught me a long time ago..."put up or shut up". So all he needed to do was put up his dukes . . . Did you miss this part of the article?

"The commanding officer and executive officer" — the unit's top two officers — "were voting members, and they allowed the whole room to vote on my call sign. They went line by line, word by word, and they voted, and the one that got the most votes was 'Romo's Bitch.' "

That would have been fun.

[Saoirse]

So all he needed to do was put up his dukes . . . Did you miss this part of the article?

"The commanding officer and executive officer" — the unit's top two officers — "were voting members, and they allowed the whole room to vote on my call sign. They went line by line, word by word, and they voted, and the one that got the most votes was 'Romo's Bitch.' "

That would have been fun.

No I didn't miss that part at all. But like I said, if he had rolled with it eventually it would have been shortened to Romo or maybe even dropped. I wonder how many of the other guys have been stuck with nicknames they didnt' want but they sucked it up.
But not for nothing, I think its been blown out of proportion. Maybe they SHOULD HAVE taped his butt cheeks together..NOW that would have been worth whining over! :rolleyes:

[alright4u]

This is not an "oh, man up" issue. It's bullying.

Bullying, v. "A person is bullied when he or she is exposed, repeatedly and over time, to negative actions on the part of one or more other persons, and he or she has difficulty defending himself or herself."

This definition includes three important components:

1. Bullying is aggressive behavior that involves unwanted, negative actions.
2. Bullying involves a pattern of behavior repeated over time.
3. Bullying involves an imbalance of power or strength.

When does teasing become taunting? When the victim can do nothing about it, the on-lookers join in or don't do anything about it. The bully has no reason to stop and every reason to continue or increase the meanness.

It's wrong.

Power was damn sure owned by my TAC officer in Infantry OCS. He was short, and, he damn sure got in my face almost daily. It was part of his game. I damn sure was not goling to let him beat me. I wanted that commission. I had banged on doors at Ft Dix for three weeks before I got an INF Maj so pissed he sent me to INF OCS in Jan 67.That damn 2LT was not going to ruin my plans.

[wet dog]

He went to OCS and made 2LT the year he turned 32, then CPT at 36. He was one of only a few I knew who after making E7 went officer, most I knew went Warrant.

PM me, I'll give his name.

This man has orders for two promotions already?

[Dozer523]

No I didn't miss that part at all. But like I said, if he had rolled with it eventually it would have been shortened to Romo or maybe even dropped. I wonder how many of the other guys have been stuck with nicknames they didnt' want but they sucked it up.
But not for nothing, I think its been blown out of proportion. Maybe they SHOULD HAVE taped his butt cheeks together..NOW that would have been worth whining over! :rolleyes:I guess we're going to have to "agree to disagree" here. But if I may, I think you miss the point of who blew what out of proportion. This guy did nothing wrong (unless reporting the bullying is wrong). The Commander and XO are in a position of power and used that position to demean an individual simply because they could.
Would you be so "oh man up!" if the call-sign was "Sambo"? Yeah, it is, the same thing.

As for the taping butt-cheeks together how about this. During our NG trainup for Afghanistan a Squad Leader in another Platoon decided a certain 18YO Private (of slight build, quiet demeanor and light brown complexion) needed his personal training. This consisted of frequent whispered slurs as to his manliness and repeated "Teabagging" sessions by the squad Leadership. The squad leader took pictures and there were pictures of the SL. The young Soldier took it for the 3 months at Ft Lewis because he thought if he did he would earn the SL's respect. Down range it morphed into pushing and shoving and gang beatings until one day there was a negligent discharge of the young Soldiers SAW in formation. Seems the SL and the boys decided to get the Young Soldier in trouble by rigging his weapon (left secured while he was in the messhall). Luckily no one in formation was injured. "One thing led to another including a turn-everything-upside-down barracks inspection. And all the pictures surfaced. Field Grade Articles all around. I was disappointed that the former SL former E-6 didn't get to spend time in the confinment facility.
BTW this dumb ass tried to pull his I'm-an-E6-and-you're-not-you're-different-from-me-and-I-don't-like-it-nor-you shit with me (about how I wore my LCE and my Long Tab) before I got my promotion to E-6. Once. That actually WAS fun. (What he lacked in professionalism he tried to make up for with stupidity)

I contend it is not the degree of bullying that makes it bad, but that it's bullying at all.

As for me I'll stand up to a bully for the weakling, every time.
No matter how tough you, are toughness alone can't beat mean.

(Maybe we ought to tape your . . . nah :p:D

Power was damn sure owned by my TAC officer in Infantry OCS. He was short, and, he damn sure got in my face almost daily. It was part of his game. I damn sure was not goling to let him beat me. I wanted that commission. That damn 2LT was not going to ruin my plans. If it was directed at you only it was bullying if he was an equal opportunity jerk it was motivation. If he was pissed you were commissioned it was bullying if he was happy it was motivation. Of course he might have just been as a@@hole.
Harry Calahan was not a bully, "he hates everybody". Worked for the SFPD.

[Dozer523]

From the original article,
"Crowston, an administrative officer in the squadron and not an aviator, calls his sexual orientation "irrelevant" and wouldn't say whether he is gay. But he did complain, first within his unit and then to the office of the local Navy inspector general (IG), about workplace harassment. While the independent Navy Times newspaper reported last week that the IG found his complaint to be "unsubstantiated," Navy officers at the Pentagon later said the investigation has been reopened and that an additional inquiry into the squadron's command climate — and how the first investigation was handled — has been launched by Navy IG headquarters.

There's two kinds of officers in the Navy, Aviators and fags. There's two kinds of Aviators in the Navy, fighter pilots and fags. There's two kinds of fighter pilots in the Navy, . . . blah blah blah.
Don't ask, Don't tell
Command Climate . . . Somebody is gonna be toast.

[HMass18Z]

I was bullied as a kid .... and one day, I got tired of bieng bullied and I "manned up" and beat the sh*t out of the kid that bullied me ...... as Dr Phil would say .... he had a changing day in his life.

Then.... a few years later..... I got bullied and name called in AIT over my last name .... again, I "manned up", had one of those "Christman Story" moments, ie the scene of Ralphie vs. Scott Fargus..... and didn't get bullied anymore.

Bullies pick on those that show weakness. If you don't want to be bullied, show strength, dare to defend yourself and fight back.

[Richard]

If you don't want to be bullied, show strength, dare to defend yourself and fight back.

So, now we'll be adding a "Revenge of the Nerds" seminar to the IET POI and giving everyone a Tri-Lambs (ΛΛΛ) challenge coin for completion of the program? :p

Richard :munchin

[1stindoor]

So, now we'll be adding a "Revenge of the Nerds" seminar to the IET POI and giving everyone a Tri-Lambs (ΛΛΛ) challenge coin for completion of the program? :p

Richard :munchin

Yeah, but afterwards they get to sleep with Betty.