View Full Version : Possible PERSEC/OPSEC violations
Gents,
As always, I am on the look out for anything that could augment or improve my current PT regimen. A member of the SOF community referred me to a website called military athlete. He said for a small annual fee the guy takes the guess work out of the equation and offers up some good PT plans, that my buddy himself had given his endorsement for. Curiously I went to the site and began clicking this and that. What I saw rather shocked me. Without wanting to put in an open forum what kinds of things I noticed, I asked Team Sergeant his opinion, for which I was instructed to put it to the forums for discussion. Anyone who is OPSEC/PERSEC savvy will see what I am talking about.
www.militaryathlete.com
Take a look at the page titled selection. I may be overreacting, but after some thought, I think this is something that needs to be addressed.
Many Thanks!
1stindoor
08-10-2010, 13:02
MOO, but anyone who posts their actual selection date, and/or the results of said selection course...had no right to be there in the first place.
That aside, his FAQ page answers all the necessary questions:
WHO IS ROB SHAUL AND WHAT ARE HIS QUALIFICATIONS?
Rob is a lifelong gym rat turned self-educated strength and conditioning coach. He is a Certified Strength and Conditioning Coach through the National Strength and Conditioning Association, and has attended seminars/certifications through CrossFit, Gym Jones, U.S. Weightlifting, and Athletes' Performance. He started Mountain Athlete in Jackson in February, 2007, and founded Military Athlete in January, 2009. He is a 1990 graduate of the US Coast Guard Academy.
By my calculations he's neither been there, nor done that; nor has he listed any kind of military duty beyond graduating from the CGA.
He's a businessman simply trying to turn a dollar off a quasi-military affiliation.
I also noticed he's a fan of, and advocate for Crossfit. Which begs the question...why am I paying for "your" workout plan when there's so many Crossfit gyms out there?
His "ugly" workout is pretty interesting though.
I see no problem with him trying to make a buck, shoot who isn't. There are always those out there looking for the magic bullet. My question to him is that IOT validate your program you have to have feedback. The amount of personal information he requires is IMHO is incredible. I had asked Mr. Shaul about the matter at hand and his reason for requiring "a date" to receive his program, is to discourage what he called "tourists". So if you have already paid for his services, what matter is it of his to know to what and when you go? Especially if he will send you the plan for free? But again I share your statement that the bottom line is if you are looking to go do such things, you would undoubtably know that giving him this kind of info is absurd.
1stindoor
08-10-2010, 13:44
Reading through his site made me think of the Al Franken character on SNL, Stuart...
While he is not a licensed therapist, he is a graduate of many 12 step programs.
I'm not seeing the issue here. Is Rob able to verify your claims (e.g when your class is)?
I'm not advocating ripping him off either. He's offering a service and if you would like his service, you should pay for it. I mean after all, we're not Congress. :D
FWIW, I like his other programs.
What is your issue? The fact that he wants class dates? I think this has something to do with customizing the program based on your start date of the selection and the program start date. I can't think of any OPSEC issues. Anyone with ako access can find SFAS dates in ATTRS. As for the other one, most people have a general idea when they run. I like his workouts and since he believes in sport or activity specific training, where does your desire to get the selection prep workout fit in?
Lindy- I do not agree with ripping him off either, in fact what I do believe is that he provides a service to someone who either-
a- doesn't have the time to devote to laying out and planning a program.
b- doesn't understand the physiological aspect of a "train up" which leads to "A"
c- is looking for a perceived 7 minute abs routine.
no harm, no foul on him for any of the above. He has found a profitable niche in the fitness world, is probably doing what he loves and well to sum it up is living the American Dream.
11Ber- If wanting your class date is simply to further customize the program to you and that is correlated to the "benchmark workout" you additionally have to submit along with your height and weight; Which in turn shows that you need more training time than you actually have until your class, that my friend is a big oops! My question posed to Mr. Shaul is that if I am a PAYING customer and I would like to incorporate another part of your program that you are willing to give me for free (correct me if I am wrong) and I am willing to give you the benchmark and height and weight, why pray tell do I need to tell you WHERE I am going and WHEN? Off of the submitted information, he should in essence be telling YOU when you will be at peak condition and when you need to go! As for myself, I have no desire at this time to attend any selection course. I was simply curious about the recommendation given to me for Mr. Shaul's training plans in general, anything to "spice up" what I am currently doing. I am always looking for that, to improve my perceived status quo.
With the above being said, I ask that you not look at my original post as a personal attack on Mr. Shaul. If that is the perception, I will relook my writing abilities (which I must add are probably somewhere between a caveman and a third grader!) :D. No, what we need to look at is the "what if" and the personal information that is collected, no matter how innocently on Mr. Shaul's part and I do believe his intentions to be benign. What you now have are the tiny random bits of information that have been placed into one location and COULD fall into the WRONG hands. I am not going to go into what all you can now get from this. Think though every piece of this, from subscription to the feedback that I am sure Mr. Shaul requires IOT validate his programs. IMHO, this is a recipe for disaster. The bottom line is- be cognizant of what personal and professional information you are giving to people.
ABN FO-Thanks for clearing that up, I really didn't understand what the issue was. I get what your saying about if you are already paying the monthly fee why not have full unlimited access. Good question. Don't take my earlier response as a defense of Rob Shaul, I neither know him personally nor do I make it a habit of anonymously defending "Workout Guru Types" on the internet. Just wasn't sure what you were having issue with. As for his holding on to his prep-program with 2 strong hands, wonder if he could be trying to boost his rep or ego by being able to say at some point "I successfully trained X amount of athlete for these Selections". Hope not but would not be surprised.
1stindoor
08-11-2010, 06:29
I don't have any issue with the guy either. I just don't see the need for some of the information. Besides...as anyone that has attended one of the "selection" courses can tell you, the physical fitness part is only one small part of your ability to successfully pass and get selected.
Surgicalcric
08-11-2010, 07:51
ABN FO--you are making a mountain out of a mole hill for sure with the SFAS date thing.
A lil history of the site and Rob: Military Athlete is a spin off of Mountain Athlete, a site dedicated to the training of mountaineers and climbers. Guys tired of CrossFit's short duration workouts turned to Rob's programming as an alternative. As a result of the progress made he was asked by quite a few ODA's (to include several mountain teams) and other SOF elements to help design programs specifically to meet their individual team needs. As a result, Military Athlete was born and it has grown to what it is today with the help of several SOF guys spanning all services. Rob has never claimed to be a SOF guy or anything other than what he was/is. He does know how to condition guys for the rigors of combat based on his knowledge of training coupled with feedback from guys who on the pointy end of the stick.
As for its likeness to Crossfit, while on the outside it may seem similar guys who have been involved with both will tell you the only thing they in common is many of the exercises utilized. The programming and theory behind it is very different. The MA workouts will test everything from your physical strength and endurance to your will to complete the session for a given day and come back for more.
The various Prep programs were designed with the assistance of people who have "been there, done that." And again, they designed to test your mental toughness as much as your physical endurance and strength. He didnt dream them up one day while doing squat cleans...
As for the actual date(s) requested, one doesn't have to provide the actual class date just that you are attending SFAS in the near future and would like his program. He asks, but doesn't demand to receive the program that you let him know how it worked out for you and what may have benefited you more. He doesn't ask for specifics on times or distances or other specifics related to the design of each selection course. Furthermore, the Army has on more than one occasion hired trainers to evaluate RIP (now RSAP), SFAS, and SOPC none of which had previously attended the courses. Both the Rangers and Marines have benefited from this approach.
Again, mountain out of a mole hill...
Crip
Surgicalcric,
I apologize for the late reply and can't give a full one at this point. I have had some connectivity issues. Will respond ASAP. Thanks
With the above being said, I ask that you not look at my original post as a personal attack on Mr. Shaul. If that is the perception, I will relook my writing abilities (which I must add are probably somewhere between a caveman and a third grader!) :D.....
I take offense.
Surgicalcric- I am not in anyway saying that Mr. Shaul is unqualified or that his product is below the cut. If it came across in that way, I would have to say that wasn't my intention. My intent was to draw attention to-
1- He would even ask for such information and yes, you can surely give him an off the mark date. Which is exactly what I was looking for, ways to circumvent Mr. Shaul's requests.
2- There are some out there who would willingly offer such information and where it may seem harmless, it still can be used.
3- Said information is probably not in the most secure of locations, without beating around the bush, I tried to look at the total. DOD's network is under attack at any given time; With that being said, Anyone who pays for his services has given up alot of information already (bank account info, name, etc) and then wants to know where you are going and when you are going there. There is alot of info there.
Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill? I don't think so, I believe PERSEC should be everyones primary concern in this day and age. IMHO, if you take steps to ensure your PERSEC, OPSEC will inherently be perserved.
The secondary intent of the thread was stir up some discussion on PERSEC, personal TTPs individuals here use to ensure their anonymity in the world of identity thieves and those who may wish to do us harm. I do appreciate the responses though.
This is the program that Mr. Shaul was asking for selection dates, etc. for. I haven't tried it, looks pretty tough. Feedback from anyone?
http://www.sealfit.com/uploads/sealfit/file/RUCK-BASED%20SELECTION%20TRAINING%20PROGRAM.pdf
Masochist
01-24-2011, 20:22
5) You must send a cool operational or training photo along with your request we can use on the website.
:rolleyes:
DJ Urbanovsky
01-24-2011, 21:41
Five minutes to Google, cross reference, and write this post.
Anybody who would like to do more digging, have at it:
Registrant:
Mountain Athlete Strength and Conditioning
Rob Shaul
P.O. Box 6499
Jackson, WY 83992
US
Phone: +1.3073606825
Email: rob@mtnathlete.com
Registrar Name....: Aplus.net
Registrar Homepage: www.aplus.net
Domain Name: militaryathlete.com
Created on..............: 2009-01-15
Expires on..............: 2012-01-15
Administrative Contact:
Mountain Athlete Strength and Conditioning
Rob Shaul
P.O. Box 6499
Jackson, WY 83992
US
Phone: +1.3073606825
Email: rob@mtnathlete.com
Technical Contact:
Mountain Athlete Strength and Conditioning
Rob Shaul
P.O. Box 6499
Jackson, WY 83992
US
Phone: +1.3073606825
Email: rob@mtnathlete.com
DNS Servers:
ns2.abac.com
ns1.abac.com
JACKSON LOCATION
3535 South Park Drive
Directions - Drive south of town approx 2 miles past Smiths. Turn left on South Park Drive. Drive up the hill past the Motorcycle dealership, and follow the road as it turns left. At the top of the hill, take the first left. Look for the sign.
And a sister site: http://www.mtnathlete.com/index.php
And that domain info:
Registrant:
Mountain Athlete Strength and Conditioning
Rob Shaul
80 Looney Lane
Pinedale, WY 82941
US
Phone: +1.3073606825
Email: robshaul9@yahoo.com
Registrar Name....: Aplus.net
Registrar Homepage: www.aplus.net
Domain Name: mtnathlete.com
Created on..............: 2007-01-10
Expires on..............: 2012-01-10
Administrative Contact:
Mountain Athlete Strength and Conditioning
Rob Shaul
80 Looney Lane
Pinedale, WY 82941
US
Phone: +1.3073606825
Email: robshaul9@yahoo.com
Technical Contact:
Mountain Athlete Strength and Conditioning
Rob Shaul
80 Looney Lane
Pinedale, WY 82941
US
Phone: +1.3073606825
Email: robshaul9@yahoo.com
DNS Servers:
ns1.abac.com
ns2.abac.com
5) You must send a cool operational or training photo along with your request we can use on the website.
:rolleyes:
I'd have to echo Masochist here. That's the first thing that caught my eye.
Ops photos and ops in general should remain classified. Personal pictures not of an operational nature, are a different matter.
From an LEO and especially undercover perspective, these guys probably don't want their faces plastered on a website.
Training dates and times? I know this is a stretch, but I would group that with troop movements. I know...it might be one thing to tell Mom and Dad (that you are going to training), but a personal trainer requesting this information? In anycase OPSEC has to start somewhere.
Just my opinion, and limited understanding of OPSEC.
Surgicalcric
01-24-2011, 23:34
Five minutes to Google
Your point is??
DJ Urbanovsky
01-25-2011, 13:22
My point is that if someone has a website, it's generally pretty quick and easy to find out who they are. If anybody wants to further check that individual out, I provided some information for them to start with. That's all. Just trying to be helpful.
Your point is??
Surgicalcric already laid out what is needed. Military Athlete is a great program that I know a lot of guys are using. I think the Operational Photo is a bit much but the programs he is putting out work, and will push you to your limit. Surgicalcric said it right, mountains out of mole hills.