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Chuckarthy
08-04-2010, 02:48
Hey guys i'm new to the forum and can't tell you how glad I am to have found a community such as this. Anyhow I have searched the forum extensively and haven't been able to find any topics or information regarding height and weight. I am a smaller guy at 5'7" 135 lbs. I can tell you that when it comes to ruck marches and carrying gear my size won't be a problem as I am an avid hiker (I did 300 miles on the Appalachian trail this summer) I can easily move at a 4-5 mph pace with a 45lb pack on my back atm and i'm positive that with more training I can carry more. However, I am wondering if when it comes to being selected I would be looked down upon as a candidate simply due to my size. I would like to think that when it comes to SF selection its like the old saying "its not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog." However I do realize that at a certain point it boils down to practicality.

My fingers are crossed that I don't get blasted by The Reaper.

JJ_BPK
08-04-2010, 04:54
My fingers are crossed that I don't get blasted by The Reaper.

Chuck

As a sophomore, you need to concentrate on the 25 yd target for the next several yrs. It looks like you have a full plate, if you are the Chuckarthy that has registered on so many internet sites.


Randolph-Macon Book club award
Varsity Wrestling
Varsity Baseball
Member outdoor program
judiciary council
Honor Council
Prefect of Dorm


Do well in school and after your other school activities, read and absorb here.

As to size of the applicants trying to get into SFAS and Special Forces??

While physical strengths carry the body thru the process,, the mind is the key to a successful completion of the course.

Good Luck & Welcome to PS.com..

:lifter

koz
08-04-2010, 07:53
Some of the toughest guys I had the pleasure of knowing are small guys. As JJ said, it's a mind set.

I will say, get used to carrying far more weight than 45lbs, even as an 11B you'll carry heavier loads than that..

lksteve
08-04-2010, 08:06
5'7" and 135 lbs is small...I know...that's five pounds lighter than I was when I went through SFQC...4-5 mph with a 45 lbs rucksack isn't quite the standard...

When I went through the training, the cadre was indifferent to my size...it never came up...

The Reaper
08-04-2010, 08:21
The average load of an 82nd Airborne infantryman in theater is in excess of 130 pounds.

I do not recommend training with that weight, but it is reality.

How much of your share of the team gear do you think your fellow team members should have to carry for you?

If you are in good shape at 135 pounds, you had best be the strongest 135 pound man on the planet, and be able to buddy carry the heaviest guy on your team when you have to.

TR

lksteve
08-04-2010, 08:40
If you are in good shape at 135 pounds, you had best be the strongest 135 pound man on the planet, and be able to buddy carry the heaviest guy on your team when you have to.I do not completely agree with TR...but at 135, you'd better be strong, you'd better be tough and you'd better be the best guy on the team at something crucial...

That said, I could buddy carry Tiny Young (RIP) and my Ranger buddy had been a linebacker at a Division II school...you have to carry your share of the load...

The Reaper
08-04-2010, 10:09
I do not completely agree with TR...but at 135, you'd better be strong, you'd better be tough and you'd better be the best guy on the team at something crucial...

That said, I could buddy carry Tiny Young (RIP) and my Ranger buddy had been a linebacker at a Division II school...you have to carry your share of the load...

Roger that.

Didn't say the individual's weight would be a show stopper in and of itself. His ability to carry his share of the load would be.

We had a guy on one of my teams who weighed 135-145 pounds, but he had proven himself in the 82nd and brought a ton of resources with him when he came to the team. He could hump his share and then some, and had a heart the size of Texas. But if he had been 180 pounds in the same condition, it would have been a lot easier for him.

TR

Bennett
08-04-2010, 10:16
We had an 18D go through the Q with me, St Augustine or something like that who was all of 5'4" on a good day. A sight to see him with an M5 bag on top of his ALICE, from the back all you could see were a pair of jungle boots. He had no problem and as far as I know had a good hitch in 2/10. Oh ya he only had one nut, car accident, don't even ask how that came up in conversation.

lksteve
08-04-2010, 10:16
But if he had been 180 pounds in the same condition, it would have been a lot easier for him.No argument there...and the truth be known, I was an engineer sergeant on a detachment at 145 or so and a detachment commander at 165...165 was better...

Deadhead 63A1
08-04-2010, 10:16
I'm either 5'7" or 5'8" depending on who's doing the measuring and weighed about 140 while going through the course. One of the other Captains in my class was about 5'4" on a good day. Are there things you have to overcome? Sure. Is it doable? Sure.

Chuckarthy
08-04-2010, 12:37
Chuck

As a sophomore, you need to concentrate on the 25 yd target for the next several yrs. It looks like you have a full plate, if you are the Chuckarthy that has registered on so many internet sites.


:lifter

*first off I realize that the rules are only QP's can post in this part of the forum however I am unsure if this counts for my own thread. So ill post this and if it breaks the rules let me know and ill be sure not to do it again.

Haha yeah those registrations are a combination of both my brother and me, however the college app stuff is me. Anyhow I am in college now and can tell you that I quite honestly am flat out bored with school. I am literally thinking about taking the next semester studying 2 languages intensely to the point where I can become fluent and then enlisting (much to the displeasure of my parents I might add). I appreciate your answers and will continue training like a maniac. You can imagine the looks i've been getting running around an upper class suburb with a log suspended above my head.

koz
08-04-2010, 13:46
Two things you should probably do:
1. Go buy "Get Selected" and follow the training model in the book. Also there's a whole section on this board that talks about PT. The thing you want to do is train smart - be effective but also not trash your body. You'll get plenty of time to do that in the Infantry and (if you make it) SF.

2. If you're bored, get FM7-8 and a Ranger handbook. Know small unit tactics. It will help you in any combat unit.


Good luck. Now do some push ups... :lifter

18C4V
08-05-2010, 19:22
Sometimes it's better to blend in on target then stick out. You don't want to be that tall guy standing among a bunch of Jundies. We had a WO get shot in the back of his helmet on target.

JJ_BPK
08-06-2010, 03:59
Haha yeah those registrations are a combination of both my brother and me, however the college app stuff is me.

I appreciate your answers and will continue training like a maniac.

You can imagine the looks i've been getting running around an upper class suburb with a log suspended above my head.



Being "to" tall is one way of standing out in the crowd,,

Being "to" loud and overly boisterous is another way...

Being "to" anything can get you "to" much exposure...

Perfecting a low profile in all things is good...

:munchin:cool:

PS: Do you use para cord to suspend that LOG over your head??

Utah Bob
08-06-2010, 14:51
*first off I realize that the rules are only QP's can post in this part of the forum however I am unsure if this counts for my own thread. So ill post this and if it breaks the rules let me know and ill be sure not to do it again.

Haha yeah those registrations are a combination of both my brother and me, however the college app stuff is me. Anyhow I am in college now and can tell you that I quite honestly am flat out bored with school. I am literally thinking about taking the next semester studying 2 languages intensely to the point where I can become fluent and then enlisting (much to the displeasure of my parents I might add). I appreciate your answers and will continue training like a maniac. You can imagine the looks i've been getting running around an upper class suburb with a log suspended above my head.

From what is this log suspended?:rolleyes:

Ability to communicate clearly and correctly in written form is another valuable skill you'll need.

greenberetTFS
08-06-2010, 15:01
The average load of an 82nd Airborne infantryman in theater is in excess of 130 pounds.

I do not recommend training with that weight, but it is reality.

How much of your share of the team gear do you think your fellow team members should have to carry for you?

If you are in good shape at 135 pounds, you had best be the strongest 135 pound man on the planet, and be able to buddy carry the heaviest guy on your team when you have to.

TR

OK guys,I'm not the brightest guy on this forum,however please tell me how a 135 pound guy would be able to carry a 130 pound rucksack?.............:confused:

Big Teddy :munchin

The Reaper
08-06-2010, 15:27
OK guys,I'm not the brightest guy on this forum,however please tell me how a 135 pound guy would be able to carry a 130 pound rucksack?.............:confused:

Big Teddy :munchin

Teddy:

It isn't a 130 pound ruck, at least not normally.

Body armor, helmet, weapon, ammo, grenades, smoke, crew served ammo, water, chow, radio, spare batteries, NVG, snivel gear, sleeping gear (temps ranged from 40s to more than 110 degrees), uniform, knife, tools, compass, map, flashlight, first aid/blow-out kit, IV kits, hygiene kits, gloves, etc., etc., plus a ruck adds up to 130 plus pounds.

Frankly, having humped over 150 pounds load before, when I weighed 190, it isn't exactly a tactical movement. More like a struggle to put one foot in front of the other without falling, eyes on the ground.

This study shows you where the weight comes from.

http://thedonovan.com/archives/modernwarriorload/ModernWarriorsCombatLoadReport.pdf

Here goes:

Rifleman.

Average Mission Duration: 48-72 hours

Resupply Items: Soldiers were resupplied with 2-3 MREs per day and up to 8 liters of water per
day. When under fire, Soldiers could expect a resupply of their basic load of ammunition each
day.

Duty Position: Rifleman

Average Fighting Load (lbs): 63.00 lbs

Average FL % Body Weight: 35.90%

Average Approach March Load (lbs): 95.67 lbs

Average AML % Body Weight: 54.72%

Average Emergency Approach March Load (lbs): 127.34 lbs

Average EAML % Body Weight: 71.41 %

Hell, the study shows the 60mm mortar crews and leaders, assistance machine gunner, MG ammo bearer, and SAW gunners all over 140 pounds, and in some cases, almost 150 pounds.

The items counted for the 11B look like this. No beer, ipods, cigarettes, etc. included.

Equipment Common to Riflemen:

A. Worn on Body/Uniform:

• M4 Carbine with PEQ-2 Laser/PAQ-4 Laser, ACOG/CCO, and 30 rounds of 5.56mm ball
ammunition.
• Desert Camouflage Uniform with Infrared Tape on left sleeve (1”x1”).
• Desert Combat Boots.
• Dog Tags.
• ID Card.
• Undershirt.
• Socks.
• Tactical gloves.
• Interceptor Body Armor with two Small Arms Protective Inserts.
• Advanced Combat Helmet with night vision mounting plate.
• Rigger belt.
• Notebook and pen.
• Watch.
• Knee and elbow pads.
• Sun, Sand, and Dust type Goggles or Wiley-X Goggles.
• Folding Knife/Multi-tool.

B. Worn on Fighting Load Carrier/Interceptor Body Armor:
• MOLLE Fighting Load Carrier with modular MOLLE pouches.
• 180 rounds of 5.56mm ball ammunition.
• Bayonet.
• Fragmentation grenade.
• 64 ounces of water in two 1-quart canteens.
• 100 ounces of water in a hydration bladder.
• Casualty and witness cards.
• Flex cuffs for personnel under custody.
• Night vision equipment (PVS-14/PVS-7).
• Iodine tablets.
• Lensatic compass.
• Flashlight.
• Chemlight.
• First Aid dressing and pouch.
• Canteen Cup.
• Earplugs.

C. Carried in Assault Rucksack:
• MOLLE Assault Rucksack or commercial assault rucksack, with MOLLE attachments.
• 500ml intravenous fluids bag with starter kit.
• 70 ounces of water in a second hydration bladder.
• Two Meals, Ready to Eat (MREs).
• Poncho and/or Bivy Sack.
• Poncho liner.
• Undershirt.
• Spare batteries.
• Two pair of socks.
• Polypropylene or silk long sleeve undershirt.
• M4/M16 Rifle Cleaning Kit.
• Personal hygiene kit.
• Rubber gloves.
• Sling rope with two snap links.

D. Carried in Main Rucksack: (Main rucksacks were rarely taken on operations during
study)
• MOLLE main rucksack with Sleeping Bag Carrier or Large ALICE rucksack.
• Modular Sleeping Bag (one bag per two men).
• Long Polypropylene Underwear of Fleece Jacket and Bibs.
• Two Undershirts.
• Two pairs of socks.
• Cold Weather Gloves.
• Knit/Fleece Cap.
• Additional ammunition.
• Two Meals, Ready to Eat (MREs).
• Sleeping pad.

Special Equipment:
• Lock pick (B).
• Collapsible Riot Baton (B).
• Bolt cutters (C or D).
• Metal detecting wand (C or D).
• 60mm mortar round (C or D).
• Combat Lifesaver Kit (C).
• Personnel Under Custody (PUC) Kit (sand bags, flex cuffs, trash bags, PUC cards, rubber
gloves) (C).
• AT4 Anti-armor Weapon. (C or D).
• SMAW-D Bunker Defeat Weapon. (C or D).
• Hooligan Tool. (C or D).
• Sledgehammer. (C or D).
• Entrenching Tool. (C or D).
• M18 Claymore Mine. (C or D).
• Pole-less Litter. (C or D).
• 200 rounds of 5.56mm linked ammunition for M249 SAW. (C or D).

Not judging, just saying that a 135 pound rifleman in the 82nd is getting his ass kicked by his load on a regular basis.

Guess how much 135 pounds of lightweight gear weighs?

TR

Chuckarthy
08-06-2010, 16:26
From what is this log suspended?:rolleyes:
.

Haha well I hold it above my head in a way something a bit like this :lifter. Its an old wrestling workout that I used to do all the time in HS. My purpose for starting this thread was to find out if my stature would in some way disqualify me from becoming a SF soldier just by default. I am not so much concerned with weights or distances as I know that I will be capable of carrying and covering them with several months of training especially since I am already in fairly good shape (I can rock climb 5.8's with a 20lb weight vest on and was hiking 15-25 mile days with a 35-45lb pack on for 29 days during june/july. However, I guess if their is anything to take away from this thread it is that I should try to bulk up to at least 145-150lbs lean mass which shouldn't be that hard given my genetics and enough food. Anyhow, I truly appreciate your input and look forward to exploring the depths of knowledge on this site further.



*JJ_BPK * My intention for that was in no way to be arrogant and if that is the vibe you got from my last post I apologize.

lksteve
08-06-2010, 16:57
Not judging, just saying that a 135 pound rifleman in the 82nd is getting his ass kicked by his load on a regular basis.I seem to recall being a little more tired than my larger squaddies back in the day...and after a three or four day exercise, I was pretty well spent..

Guess how much 135 pounds of lightweight gear weighs?210 pounds...maybe 250...

And to Teddy's question...how does a 135 pound trooper carry that kind of weight around (okay, I paraphrased )...it takes a lotta wanna...

Dozer523
08-06-2010, 22:47
. . . My purpose for starting this thread was to find out if my stature would in some way disqualify me from becoming a SF soldier just by default. . . . Do your feet reach the ground? Then you're not to short.
Seriously, how big is your heart? What about your head? If those two are the right proportions you'll be okay.

craigepo
08-07-2010, 08:08
I have watched little dudes go like crazy. Have watched guys built like greek statues quit/fail miserably.

As young as you are, I wouldn't worry a lot about the weight. Chow hall eatin' will put some ass on ya'.

Anybody up for some shit-on-a-shingle?

ZonieDiver
08-07-2010, 10:56
I have watched little dudes go like crazy. Have watched guys built like greek statues quit/fail miserably.

As young as you are, I wouldn't worry a lot about the weight. Chow hall eatin' will put some ass on ya'.

Anybody up for some shit-on-a-shingle?

I was 5'9" and 150 when I went to Camp Mackall. I had a fear that I would be the smallest guy there - because the soldier who had been at Infantry and Airborne with me was 6'3" and 210... looked like John Wayne, and did a great impression, which was a handy skill in 1970 SFTG (I copied his imitation, though I looked nothing like "The Duke"... a couple guys from SFTG still know me as "Duke"!). When I got there, I discovered I was more the norm than the exception. However, we didn't have many guys much smaller than I was....

"Shit-on-a-shingle"! Yum. Though it didn't measure up to my mom's "chipped beef on toast" - I soon came to love the Army version, as I did most "Army chow." It was often derided, and I must admit the USAF seemed to eat better regularly. However, on the whole it was ,IMHO, usually pretty good, sometimes very good, and always plentiful.

"Chow down, hogs!"

mojaveman
08-07-2010, 11:08
Sometimes there are advantages to being slight of build.

The tunnel rats that served during the the Viet Nam war are a fine example.

theis223
08-07-2010, 13:01
Do your feet reach the ground? Then you're not to short.
Seriously, how big is your heart? What about your head? If those two are the right proportions you'll be okay.

Very sound advice for so many other applications in life. That is a gem Dozer!:)

Utah Bob
08-07-2010, 17:19
Sometimes there are advantages to being slight of build.

The tunnel rats that served during the the Viet Nam war are a fine example.

Well..when it came to tunnels I always thought that a fella about 6'4" and 250 had the advantage.
He couldn't fit in 'em.

Utah Bob
08-07-2010, 17:21
Only disadvantage to being short was that I couldn't take as long strides with snowshoes and fell behind the team or (usually) had to break trail.

Blitzzz (RIP)
08-07-2010, 17:43
Height and weight certainly have some bearing on being SF in the minds of some.
This can be measured and photographed , but the real measure is measured by trial.
This is the measure of the Heart and will. No physical sizing will help determine this result. Blitzzz

Ret10Echo
08-07-2010, 18:46
Only disadvantage to being short was that I couldn't take as long strides with snowshoes and fell behind the team or (usually) had to break trail.

Had some studs out in Yuma who had issue with the distance between the bottom of the pack tray and the ground while they were standing up. (This is prior to exit for you guys about to make some smart-alecky remark :D). Sometimes there isn't a lot of rucksack that fits between there.

Course, once you leave the ramp, none of that really matters....athough you could find yourself lacking a high quality rudder when you need one the most.

mark46th
08-07-2010, 22:52
We had a medic in 46th Co that was 5'2"-5'3". It wasn't a problem until we had a jump out of a UH-1H. He was in the front spot, sitting on the edge of the cabin but his feet didn't reach the skid. When he pushed himself out, he didn't clear the skid and got hung up by the saddle on his harness. 1500' in the air, hanging upside down by his ass...

rdret1
08-08-2010, 01:12
Height and weight certainly have some bearing on being SF in the minds of some.
This can be measured and photographed , but the real measure is measured by trial.
This is the measure of the Heart and will. No physical sizing will hep determine this result. Blitzzz

I always found it kind of amusing when some of the Arnold Jr.'s couldn't pass the PT test, while the little skinny guys had no problems.

Dozer523
08-08-2010, 06:34
I always found it kind of amusing when some of the Arnold Jr.'s couldn't pass the PT test, while the little skinny guys had no problems. but it was NOT amusing when Mr "I-got-bodyfat-of-less-than 10%-chicks-dig-me" went into energy deficit and could no longer hump a ruck or stay awake in the NDP or even maintain linear thought.

A little fat is good.

Richard
08-08-2010, 07:11
Over the years I saw:


Big guys who could make it and big guys who could not
Small guys who could make it and small guys who could not
Short guys who could make it and short guys who could not
Tall guys who could make it and tall guys who could not
Thin guys who could make it and thin guys who could not
Heavy guys who could make it and heavy guys who could not
Athletic guys who could make it and athletic guys who could not
Etc...

My observation was that you could never really tell who was gonna make it or not until after they had either made it or didn't.

And so it goes...

Richard's $.02 :munchin

rdret1
08-08-2010, 07:29
Over the years I saw:


Big guys who could make it and big guys who could not
Small guys who could make it and small guys who could not
Short guys who could make it and short guys who could not
Tall guys who could make it and tall guys who could not
Thin guys who could make it and thin guys who could not
Heavy guys who could make it and heavy guys who could not
Athletic guys who could make it and athletic guys who could not
Etc...

My observation was that you could never really tell who was gonna make it or not until after they had either made it or didn't.

And so it goes...

Richard's $.02 :munchin

All very true. You can't see into someone's mindset. It comes down to how bad you want it.

f50lrrp
08-08-2010, 09:48
Guamanian, SFC Efrin Cruz was 5'-2'' tall and weighed 124 lbs. He humped a 50lb rucksack, a Car-15 with 240 rounds of ammo, 6 frag grenades and 2 smoke grenades and a claymore mine or two as he walked point for team Cobra 1-5 in B-36 (Third Mobile Strike Force, Company A, 5th SFGA) 1n 1968.

We were walking into the Saigon PX dressed in Tiger Striped fatigues one day when the MP guard stopped us and said to me, "You can go in but the "gook" has to stay outside." I told the MP, "You tell him that he can't go in, He's an SFC in the American Army." I walked in to the PX as Cruz told the MP to call his supervisor.

greenberetTFS
08-08-2010, 14:24
Well..when it came to tunnels I always thought that a fella about 6'4" and 250 had the advantage.
He couldn't fit in 'em.

UB,

You came close to my stats when I went through............. :) I had a 31' waist,was 6'1'' and 240,which of course would have disqualified me also!.............;)

Big Teddy :munchin

Utah Bob
08-08-2010, 16:25
Nope, them ain't my stats. I was pointing out when it came to tunnel crawling, Big boys were exempt.

I was a lot closer to Chuckarthy's build when I was a youngster.:D

One advantage, I didn't stand out among the little indig troops.;)

greenberetTFS
08-08-2010, 16:44
but it was NOT amusing when Mr "I-got-bodyfat-of-less-than 10%-chicks-dig-me" went into energy deficit and could no longer hump a ruck or stay awake in the NDP or even maintain linear thought.

A little fat is good.

Concur..........;)

Big Teddy :munchin

Chuckarthy
10-04-2010, 23:09
So I figured I would post an update. I have joined the ROTC program at state school down the road from my school. On my first day at the program one of the MS4's asked me if I wanted to try out for Ranger Challenge, I had absolutely no idea what it was but I said yeah. I made the team and will be competing up at FT Knox in 2 weeks with the team. As a part of the PT I have been rucking, running, and doing skills training at 4am every morning. Since the beginning of RC training I have ended up putting on 5lbs, hopefully I can keep on packing on the pounds!

lksteve
10-05-2010, 06:49
Since the beginning of RC training I have ended up putting on 5lbs, hopefully I can keep on packing on the pounds!Strength and endurance are worth more than weight...