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Richard
07-10-2010, 07:24
Tribal mores in the modern world for those who long for the good ol' days...

And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

In India, Castes, Honor and Killings Intertwine
NYT, 10 July 2010

When Nirupama Pathak left this remote mining region for graduate school in New Delhi, she seemed to be leaving the old India for the new. Her parents paid her tuition and did not resist when she wanted to choose her own career. But choosing a husband was another matter.

Her family was Brahmin, the highest Hindu caste, and when Ms. Pathak, 22, announced she was secretly engaged to a young man from a caste lower than hers, her family began pressing her to change her mind. They warned of social ostracism and accused her of defiling their religion.

Days after Ms. Pathak returned home in late April, she was found dead in her bedroom. The police have arrested her mother, Sudha Pathak, on suspicion of murder, while the family contends that the death was a suicide.

The postmortem report revealed another unexpected element to the case: Ms. Pathak was pregnant.

“One thing is absolutely clear,” said Prashant Bhushan, a social activist and lawyer now advising Ms. Pathak’s fiancé. “Her family was trying their level best to prevent her from marrying that boy. The pressure was such that either she was driven to suicide or she was killed.”

In India, where the tension between traditional and modern mores reverberates throughout society, Ms. Pathak’s death comes amid an apparent resurgence of so-called honor killings against couples who breach Hindu marriage traditions.

This week, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh ordered a cabinet-level commission to consider tougher penalties in honor killings.

In June, India’s Supreme Court sent notices to seven Indian states, as well as to the national government, seeking responses about what was being done to address the problem.

The phenomenon of honor killings is most prevalent in some northern states, especially Haryana, where village caste councils, or khap panchayats, often operate as an extralegal morals police force, issuing edicts against couples who marry outside their caste or who marry within the same village — considered a religious violation since villages are often regarded as extended families.

Even as the court system has sought to curb these councils, politicians have hesitated, since the councils often control significant vote blocs in local elections.

New cases of killings or harassment appear in the Indian news media almost every week. Last month, the police arrested three men for the honor killings of a couple in New Delhi who had married outside their castes, as well as the murder of a woman who eloped with a man from another caste.

Two of the suspects are accused of murdering their sisters, and an uncle of the slain couple spoke of their murders as justifiable.

“What is wrong in it?” the uncle, Dharmaveer Nagar, told the Indian news media. “Murder is wrong, but this is socially the best thing that has been done.”

Intercaste marriages are protected under Indian law, yet social attitudes remain largely resistant. In a 2006 survey cited in a United Nations report, 76 percent of respondents deemed the practice unacceptable. An overwhelming majority of Hindu couples continue to marry within their castes, and newspapers are filled with marital advertisements in which parents, seeking to arrange a marriage for a son or daughter, specify caste among lists of desired attributes like profession and educational achievement.

“This is part and parcel of our culture, that you marry into your own caste,” said Dharmendra Pathak, the father of Ms. Pathak, during an interview in his home. “Every society has its own culture. Every society has its own traditions.”

Yet Indian society is also rapidly changing, with a new generation more likely to mix with people from different backgrounds as young people commingle on college campuses or in the workplace.

Ms. Pathak had studied journalism at the Indian Institute of Mass Communications in New Delhi before taking a job at a financial newspaper. At school, she had met Priyabhanshu Ranjan, a top student whose family was from a middle-upper caste, the Kayastha.

“The day I proposed, she said, ‘My family will not accept this. My family is very conservative,’ ” Mr. Ranjan recalled. “I used to try to convince her that once we got married, they would accept it.”

Ms. Pathak deliberated over the proposal for months before accepting in early 2009. Convinced her family would disapprove, she kept her engagement a secret for more than a year, until she learned that her father was interviewing prospective Brahmin grooms in New Delhi to arrange a marriage for her. Her parents were also renovating the family home for a wedding celebration.

Ms. Pathak called her oldest brother, Samarendra, who spent the next week trying to change her mind.

“What I told her was that the decision you have taken — there is nothing wrong with it,” he said. “But the society we live in will not accept it. You can’t transform society in a day. It takes time.”

When her father learned of the engagement, he wrote his daughter a letter and paid a surprise visit to New Delhi.

In the letter, the father acknowledged that such marriages were allowed under India’s Constitution, but argued that the Constitution had existed for only decades while Hindu religious beliefs dated back thousands of years.

At one point, Ms. Pathak’s mother called, crying, asking if they had wronged her in a past life.

The death of Ms. Pathak remains under investigation. Her body was discovered in her upstairs bedroom on the morning of April 29, while her mother was the only person at home. Initially, neighbors and family members said she had died from electrocution, but then later changed their story to say she had hanged herself. The police arrested the mother after the postmortem report concluded that Ms. Pathak had been suffocated.

But Ms. Pathak’s father and her two brothers have argued that the postmortem was flawed and claimed that her death had been a suicide. The family produced a suicide note and persuaded a local magistrate to order an investigation into Mr. Ranjan, the boyfriend — which his supporters have described as politically motivated.

Ms. Pathak’s pregnancy has also complicated the case. Mr. Ranjan said that he had been unaware of her condition, and her family told the police that they, too, had been unaware. But in an interview, the father and brothers changed their story, saying that Ms. Pathak confessed her pregnancy to her mother on the morning of her death.

For now, the case has polarized opinion. In Koderma, supporters of the Pathak family have rallied for the release of the mother from jail. In New Delhi, former classmates of Ms. Pathak and other supporters have held candlelight vigils, calling for the case to be prosecuted as an honor killing.

“This kind of the thing is increasing everywhere,” said Girija Vyas, a member of Parliament and the president of the National Commission of Women. “There should not be these things in the 21st century. These things must be stopped.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/10/world/asia/10honor.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2&partner=rss&emc=rss

afchic
07-11-2010, 14:50
This has been a huge deal in the Indian papers as of late. The 5th honor killing in a couple of weeks happened while I was there last month. Front page of all the newspapers.

The media is calling for parliment to implement new laws outlawing the practise. We'll see where it goes.

Richard
07-28-2010, 14:00
And so it goes...

Richard :munchin

India Struggles To Stem Rise In 'Honor Killings'
NPR, 27 Jul 2010

Traditional Indian values are clashing with modern mores in northern India, where there has been a reported upsurge in so-called honor killings, the murders of young couples who elope in defiance of caste boundaries and their families' wishes.

The struggle pits traditional village councils against reformers' efforts to promote freedom of marriage and the Indian government's efforts to keep traditional values within the bounds of the law.

Nearly every day, Indian media carry reports on the murders of young people who tried to defy very specific local rules about who can marry whom.

(cont'd) http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128567642

akv
07-28-2010, 14:27
Yet another addition to the long list of things I will never understand...

Interestingly enough though, The Searchers, IMO one of the greatest American movies, with the best American director, and the Duke's greatest performance (ducking now), captures the best of the American spirit, yet is at the same time so dark in places with a plot driven by revenge and an honor killing.

echoes
07-28-2010, 16:02
Nearly every day, Indian media carry reports on the murders of young people who tried to defy very specific local rules about who can marry whom.[/I]

(cont'd) http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128567642

AM very good friends with an Indian family here in the U.S. The mother was of royal dissent, and is a doctor. The father is now disabled, and their three daughters all became doctors, in their respective feilds, here in the U.S.

They are very good people, who are working with the disabled. They are some of the most genuine people I have ever had the pleasure to meet, and I have learned about their culture.

This practice of honor killings, is no more than murder, tied with a pretty bow. This practice is veiled in religon, as most practices are, and IMHO, should be called what it is; Spineless, cowardly, pig-eating swine, who let their pride get in the way of their love for their family.

Hope that those that murder thier own children are going to live a long and torturous existence, IN HELL!!!

Holly:munchin

ZonieDiver
07-28-2010, 16:07
Yet another addition to the long list of things I will never understand...

Interestingly enough though, The Searchers, IMO one of the greatest American movies, with the best American director, and the Duke's greatest performance (ducking now), captures the best of the American spirit, yet is at the same time so dark in places with a plot driven by revenge and an honor killing.

It was a "near" honor killing, was it not. Ethan couldn't do it in the end, which I think was telling. Agreed that it was Wayne's best performance. Close to it was his performance in "She Wore A Yellow Ribbon" - which is my fav. Wayne film.

greenberetTFS
07-28-2010, 16:38
AM very good friends with an Indian family here in the U.S. The mother was of royal dissent, and is a doctor. The father is now disabled, and their three daughters all became doctors, in their respective feilds, here in the U.S.

They are very good people, who are working with the disabled. They are some of the most genuine people I have ever had the pleasure to meet, and I have learned about their culture.

This practice of honor killings, is no more than murder, tied with a pretty bow. This practice is veiled in religon, as most practices are, and IMHO, should be called what it is; Spineless, cowardly, pig-eating swine, who let their pride get in the way of their love for their family.

Hope that those that murder thier own children are going to live a long and torturous existence, IN HELL!!!

Holly:munchin

Geez Holly don't hold back!............. :( You see an injustice you tell it like it is!............ :(

Big Teddy :munchin

echoes
07-28-2010, 17:02
Geez Holly don't hold back!............. You see an injustice you tell it like it is!............

Big Teddy :munchin

Big Teddy,

AM not a feminist, by any means, but knowing this shit just makes my blood cold. And thanks to the internet, we now have up to date, min. by min. updates on the practices of cold-blooded killers, that have probobly been doing this for years. Don't you think? :confused: :(

This is not new, per se, but it is now exposed! And those murderers are now brought into the light.

Indeed, can only hope they burn HOT in hell, for taking the life of thier own precious children.

Holly

afchic
08-01-2010, 20:00
Big Teddy,

AM not a feminist, by any means, but knowing this shit just makes my blood cold. And thanks to the internet, we now have up to date, min. by min. updates on the practices of cold-blooded killers, that have probobly been doing this for years. Don't you think? :confused: :(

This is not new, per se, but it is now exposed! And those murderers are now brought into the light.

Indeed, can only hope they burn HOT in hell, for taking the life of thier own precious children.

Holly

Holly, although I agree with your overall view that these honor killings are deplorable, it would do us all good to find out why they are happening, and the cultures that it happens in.

In many cultures, Asian, Indian, etc, honor is sometimes the only thing a family has. To them it is more valuable than money, more valuable than life often times. It is the only thing some of these people can call their own.They have no money, nothing but their family's honor.

In the West we value individuality, and the things that come with suceeding as an individual. Most Eastern cultures are the exact opposite. There is no such thing as individuality. Everything is done with the thought of the group in mind. Whatever happens to better the group is good, at the expense of individuality often times.

I am not saying that these honor killings are good or just or right. But we in the west have a tendancy to be very xenophobic and try to place our moral values on other cultures. One can not hope to stop things like this without first understanding why they happen, and then try to change things from within, rather from the outside.

We can scream, cry and call it murder all day long, and it will do no good, we are outsiders trying to make a judgement call on another's moral viewpoint. Only those within can hope to bring about change to this archaic practise.

By the way, many other cultures see our practise of capital punishment as barbaric.